Debate As Expression of the Reprobate Mind In Romans 1: 29

[texian]

Debate As Expression of the Reprobate Mind In Romans 1: 29

In Romans 1: 21-29 Paul writes that "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers..."

Debate in Romans 1; 29 is from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 2054, eris, meaning "a quarrel, i.e, by implication wrangling, contention, debate, strife, variance."

Paul is saying that those who change the truth of God's word into lies, and worship and serve man and the creation more than God are given over as judgment to homosexuality and lesbianism - and to a reprobate mind. One expression of the reprobate mind is the love of debate or of quarrels.

Isaiah 28: 15 says "Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:"

Isaiah 28: 15 is a prophecy about God's people changing his truth into lies and leaning upon man's understanding, falling into apostasy, believing lies, and the lies they believe, they think, will protect them from the "overflowing scourge," which sounds like the tribulation of Matthew 24: 21.

But look at Isaiah 28: 18, "And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it."

Not only does Romans 1: 21-29 say that as judgment for changing God's truth into lies and worshipping man, that is, following man-made theology, and the creation rather than
the Creator these people will be given over to lesbianism and
homosexuality, but also that they will be given over to fornication, covetousness, envy, murder, and debate.

In the period of the early seventies in the watering holes of the counterculture - where social life flourished - the homosexual and lesbian movements followed hard on the heels of the counterculture which at first was predominantly heterosexual. Lesbianism became sexually and politically correct in the major universities after the early seventies. Political correctness was the same movement that Dean Gotcher calls Transformational Marxism, which is a Stealth
Marxism, that is not identified as Marxism by most.

But I want to focus more on debate as one of the expressions of the reprobate mind (Romans 1: 28).

The definition of the Greek word, eris, in Strong's means
a quarrel, wrangling, or contention. It is contentiousness, which is not becoming to a follower of Jesus Christ. A follower of Jesus Christ becomes a spiritual warrior, puts on the helmet of salvation, the breastplate of righteousness,
the shield of faith, feet shod with the Gospel, and above all has in his hand the sword of the Spirit, which is the word
of God, an offensive spiritual weapon.

But the spiritual warrior of Christ does not engage in a dialectic debate with those who disagree with his quoting of "it is written." And the warrior of Christ does not stay for a long time in an argument with one who has a dialectic mind. He shakes the dust off his feet and moves on (Matthew 10: 14). But he does quote "It is written," and never compromises the word in order to promote a relationship other than that with Christ and he as Truth. So, what is the dialectic than, as often used in debates, and in debates or arguments on Christian forums?

On a more general level the dialectic, which goes back in history of Hegel and Marx - but also to Genesis 3: 1-6 in the Garden - is an attempt to use man's understanding to diminish or win out over God's word and to overthrow God's patriarchal authority. The dialectic is man arguing from the flesh.

However, in Christian arguments those who use the dialectic will quote scripture to oppose "it is written," often implying that scripture is not consistent. If one person quotes a Bible verse or several verses, the person with the dialectic mind may come back and say, in effect, "But over here it says the opposite," to support his man-made understanding.

Lean Not To Your Own Understanding, But Follow God's Word and Let Him Direct Your Life

Proverbs 3: 5-7: "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 7. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil."

Lust of the Flesh, Lust of the Eyes and the Pride of Life

I John 2: 15-17: "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."

Human Flesh Wars Against the Spirit of God

Romans 7: 24-25 "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from
the body of this death?
25. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because
they are spiritually discerned." I Corinthians 2; 14

I am quoting below below from Dean Gotcher, a preacher of righteousness and scholar as the authority on the Transformational Marxist dialectic process.

authorityresearch.com Handouts for Meetings

Dean Gotcher says "DIDACTIC PARADIGM--Right is right and wrong is
wrong, therefore chastening is justified: "If ye endure chastening,
God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father
chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."

The didactic way of communicating for Christians is quoting scripture as "it is written," that is, in faith, knowing it is from the Holy Spirit and does not contradict itself.

Gotcher says of the dialectic that "DIALECTICAL PARADIGM; All is gray therefore dialogue, not
chastening, is justified: "The philosopher Hegel said that truth is
found neither in the thesis nor the antithesis [right or wrong], but
in an emerging synthesis which reconciles the two [dialogue]." Martin
Luther King Jr. Strength to Love
Karl Marx: "Once the earthy family [chastening] is discovered to
be the secret of the heavenly family [chastening], the former must
itself be destroyed in theory and in practice [dialogue]." Karl Marx,
Thesis on Feuerbach #4.
Abraham Maslow: "We have to study the conditions which maximize
ought-perceptiveness." "Oughtiness is itself a fact to be
perceived." A. H. Maslow, The Farther Reaches of Human Nature. ("I
have found whenever I ran across authoritarian students that the best
thing for me to do was to break their backs immediately. The correct
thing to do with authoritarians is to take them realistically for the
bastards they are and then behave toward them as if they were
bastards." Maslow, Maslow on Management)
Carl Rogers: "Prior to therapy the person is prone to ask
himself 'What would my parents want me to do?' During the process of
therapy the individual comes to ask himself 'What does it mean to
me?'" Carl R. Rogers, On becoming a person.
Benjamin Bloom: "We recognize the point of view that truth and
knowledge are only relative and that there are no hard and fast truths
which exist for all time and places." Benjamin S. Bloom, Taxonomy
of Educational Objectives Book I: Cognitive Domain (1956) Referred to
as Bloom's Taxonomy p. 32
Karl Marx: "In the eyes of dialectical philosophy, nothing is
established for all times, nothing is absolute or sacred."

There is more on the dialectic, which was made into an
attitude change procedure by the Group Dynamics movement, by the encounter group movement led by clinical psychologists and others, and popularized to become the dominant way of thinking and interacting verbally in the United States. The "long march through the institutions" of Transformational Marxism included
the Christian churches and the Christian seminaries where the False Prophets are hatched and trained.

 

[edward99]

REVEALING QUOTES ON THE GOALS OF PSYCHIATRY AND PSYCHOLOGY

REVEALING QUOTES ON THE GOALS OF PSYCHIATRY AND PSYCHOLOGY


Psychiatry's Views on Religion

"Religion (is) a universal obsessional neurosis."
Sigmund Freud, defining spiritual belief

"Religion is an illusion and it derives its strength from the fact that it falls in with our instinctual desires."
Sigmund Freud

"The religions of mankind must be classed among the mass-delusions of this kind. No one, needless to say, who shares a delusion ever recognizes it as such..."
Sigmund Freud

"Civilization runs a greater risk if we maintain our present attitude to religion than if we give it up."
Sigmund Freud

"In short, the nature of the hallucinations of Jesus, as they are described in the orthodox Gospels, permits us to conclude that the founder of the Christian religion was afflicted with religious paranoia."
Psychiatrist Dr. Charles Binet-Sangle: La Folie de Jesus (The Madness of Jesus), 1910

"…Jesus Christ might simply have returned to his carpentry following the use of modern psychiatric treatments."
William Sargant, British psychiatrist, 1974

"No one knows just how the idea of a soul or the supernatural started… It probably had its origin in the general laziness of mankind."
John B. Watson, behavioral psychologist

"This dogma (the soul) has been present in human psychology from earliest antiquity. No one has ever touched the soul, or has seen one in a test tube, or has in any way come into a relationship with it as he has with the other objects of his daily experience."
John B. Watson, behavioral psychologist

"I regard myself as one of the most dangerous enemies of religion"
Sigmund Freud

"The soul or consciousness, which played the leading part in the past, now is of very little importance; in any case both are deprived of their main functions and glory to such an extent that only the names remain. Behaviorism sang their funeral dirge while materialism – the smiling heir – arranges a suitable funeral for them."
Statement delivered at the Sixth International Congress of Philosophy at Harvard University

"…humanists still believe that traditional theism, especially faith in the prayer-hearing God, assumed to love and care for persons, to hear and understand their prayers, and to be able to do something about them, is an unproved and outmoded faith." "Traditional moral codes… fail to meet the pressing needs of today and tomorrow…" "Promises of immortal salvation or fear of eternal damnation are both illusory and harmful… The total personality is a function of the biological organism transacting in a social and cultural context. There is no credible evidence that life survives the death of the body."
The Humanist Manifesto 2, 1973

"All neurotics seek the religious"
Psychologist Carl Jung

"It should be recognized that an acceptance of the mental health viewpoint… carries an obligation to examine critically some of the teaching of the churches in the light of present-day insight into what seems to be essential to wholesome personality development and into what is now known to be detrimental to the growing personality of the child."
Psychiatrist at World Federation of Mental Health (WFMH) Conference

"Pastoral psychology understands itself as a help for the communities in view of ‘group dynamic’ proceedings –e.g., the processes of rivalization, or the search for scapegoats, harmonization or shifting guilt, which… can determine life in a community so strongly that the succession of Jesus Christ is no longer paid heed"
The German Association for Pastoral Psychology Magazine – Ways To Man

"What is the relationship between wholeness and holiness?… What does personal responsibility mean in the light of the findings or psychoanalysis? Do the words right and wrong, have any further usefulness in the light of our new knowledge of compulsive behavior patterns? I believe it’s one of the tragedies of Christianity that it has got itself all mixed up with morality…"
Canon Sydney Evans, National Association for Mental Health, 1967

"The word soul has lost its meaning and even its plausibility…. Faith, hope and love can no longer be seen simply as virtues or graces; they are processes in flesh and blood… (the clergyman) will find that whether he wants it or not, he is also a front-line mental health worker or he will be so regarded by the specialists in mental health. It is on the pastoral role and the tasks of shepherding that the psychological disciples have the greatest impact in theological work."
Paul Pruyser, psychologist, author: "The Seamy Side of Current Religious Beliefs"

"In recent years pastoral counselors have separated from their parishes and emerged as a psychotherapy profession…. This professionalization process includes a shift away from parish-based counseling to counseling centers or medical settings, declining interest in religious practices and convictions, increased interest in psychological practices and theories, the charging of fees, and increased institutional and professional barriers to those individuals perceived as poor counseling clients or unable to pay…. There is also… growing deviation from a religious orientation to a pseudopsychiatric orientation."
American Journal of Psychiatry, March 1986

"We can therefore justifiably stress our particular point of view with regard to the proper development of the human psyche, even though our knowledge be incomplete. We must aim to make it permeate every educational activity in our national life…. We have made a useful attack upon a number of professions. The two easiest of them naturally are the teaching profession and the Church: the two most difficult are law and medicine."
Dr. John Rawlings Rees, "Strategic Planning for Mental Health", June 18, 1940

"To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism and religious dogmas..."
G. Brock Chisholm, psychiatrist and co-founder of the World Federation of Mental Health

"The danger is that these psychologies may, to one degree or another, replace Christianity without most people even noticing that any substitution has taken place."
Christianity Today, 1994

_


Psychiatry's Views on Education

"Every child in America entering school at the age of five is insane because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our founding fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It’s up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well – by creating the international child of the future"
Dr. Chester M. Pierce, Psychiatrist, address to the Childhood International Education Seminar, 1973

"We have swallowed all manner of poisonous certainties fed us by our parents, our Sunday and day school teachers, our politicians, our priests, our newspapers, and others with a vested interest in controlling us. ‘Thou shalt become as gods, knowing good and evil,’ good and evil with which to keep children under control, with which to impose local and familial and national loyalties and with which to blind children to their glorious intellectual heritage… The results, the inevitable results, are frustration, inferiority, neurosis and inability to enjoy living, to reason clearly or to make a world fit to live in."
Dr. G. Brock Chisholm, President, World Federation of Mental Health

Teaching school children to read was a "perversion" and high literacy rate bred "the sustaining force behind individualism."
John Dewey, Educational Psychologist

The school curriculum should "…be designed to bend the student to the realities of society, especially by way of vocational education… the curriculum should be designed to promote mental health as an instrument for social progress and a means of altering culture…"
Report: Action for Mental Health, 1961

"Education should aim at destroying free will so that after pupils are thus schooled they will be incapable throughout the rest of their lives of thinking or acting otherwise than as their school masters would have wished ... The social psychologist of the future will have a number of classes of school children on whom they will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that snow is black. Various results will soon be arrived at: first, that influences of the home are 'obstructive' and verses set to music and repeatedly intoned are very effective ... It is for the future scientist to make these maxims precise and discover exactly how much it costs per head to make children believe that snow is black. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for more than one generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen."
Bertrand Russell quoting Johann Gottlieb Fichte, the head of philosophy & psychology who influenced Hegel and others – Prussian University in Berlin, 1810

"…through schools of the world we shall disseminate a new conception of government – one that will embrace all of the collective activities of men; one that will postulate the need for scientific control and operation of economic activities in the interests of all people."
Harold Rugg, student of psychology and a disciple of John Dewey

"Education does not mean teaching people to know what they do not know – it means teaching them to behave as they do not behave."
National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) sponsored report: The Role of Schools in Mental Health

"This is the idea where we drop subject matter and we drop Carnegie Unites (grading from A-F) and we just let students find their way, keeping them in school until they manifest the politically correct attitudes. You see, one of the effects of self-esteem (Values Clarification) programs is that you are no longer obliged to tell the truth if you don’t feel like it. You don’t have to tell the truth because if the truth you have to tell is about your own failure then your self-esteem will go down and that is unthinkable."
Dr. William Coulson, explaining Outcome Based Education (OBE) Info

"Education is thus a most power ally of humanism, and every public school is a school of humanism. What can the theistic Sunday school, meeting for an hour once a week, and teaching only a fraction of the children, do to stem the tide of a five-day program of humanistic teachings?"
Charles F. Potter, Humanist

"Men are built, not born…. Give me the baby, and I’ll make it climb and use its hands in constructing buildings of stone or wood…. I’ll make it a thief, a gunman or a dope fiend. The possibilities of shaping in any direction are almost endless…"
John B. Watson, psychologist, founder of "Behaviorism"

"Of course, Behaviorism 'works.' So does torture. Give me a no-nonsense, down-to-earth behaviorist, a few drugs, and simple electrical appliances, and in six months I will have him reciting the Athanasian Creed in public".
W. H. Auden

"Despite rapid progress in the right direction, the program of the average elementary school has been primarily devoted to teaching the fundamental subjects, the three R’s, and closely related disciplines… Artificial exercises, like drills on phonetics, multiplication tables, and formal writing movements, are used to a wasteful degree. Subjects such as arithmetic, language, and history include content that is intrinsically of little value. Nearly every subject is enlarged unwisely to satisfy the academic ideal of thoroughness… Elimination of the unessential by scientific study, then, is one step in improving the curriculum."
Edward Lee Thorndike, pioneer of "animal psychology"

"We can therefore justifiably stress our particular point of view with regard to the proper development of the human psyche, even though our knowledge be incomplete. We must aim to make it permeate every educational activity in our national life…. We have made a useful attack upon a number of professions. The two easiest of them naturally are the teaching profession and the Church: the two most difficult are law and medicine."
Dr. John Rawlings Rees, "Strategic Planning for Mental Health", June 18, 1940

"Psychology, and child-study stand first in order among the required subjects of technical nature… The course of child-study is supplementary to the prescribed courses in systematic and applied psychology."
1899 Teachers College Course

"...a student attains 'higher order thinking' when he no longer believes in right or wrong". "A large part of what we call good teaching is a teacher´s ability to obtain affective objectives by challenging the student's fixed beliefs. …a large part of what we call teaching is that the teacher should be able to use education to reorganize a child's thoughts, attitudes, and feelings."
Benjamin Bloom, psychologist and educational theorist, in "Major Categories in the Taxonomy of Educational Objectives", p. 185, 1956

"The educational system should be a sieve, through which all the children of a country are passed. It is highly desirable that no child escape inspection."
Paul Popenoe, Behavioral Eugenist and co-author: "Sterilization for Human Betterment"


_

see also:

Psychiatry's Views on Conservatives

Psychiatry's Views on Creating a Slave Society

Psychiatry's Views on America

Psychiatry's Views on World Government

Freud on Marxism

Involuntary Psychiatric Commitment

Psychiatry Promoting Euthanasia, Eugenics, Racism

Psychiatry's Views on Morality and Families

Quotes About the Psychiatric and Psychological Industries

REVEALING QUOTES ON THE GOALS OF PSYCHIATRY AND PSYCHOLOGY

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Debate As Expression of the Reprobate Mind In Romans 1: 29

In Romans 1: 21-29 Paul writes that "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers..."

Debate in Romans 1; 29 is from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 2054, eris, meaning "a quarrel, i.e, by implication wrangling, contention, debate, strife, variance."

Paul is saying that those who change the truth of God's word into lies, and worship and serve man and the creation more than God are given over as judgment to homosexuality and lesbianism - and to a reprobate mind. One expression of the reprobate mind is the love of debate or of quarrels.

Isaiah 28: 15 says "Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:"

Isaiah 28: 15 is a prophecy about God's people changing his truth into lies and leaning upon man's understanding, falling into apostasy, believing lies, and the lies they believe, they think, will protect them from the "overflowing scourge," which sounds like the tribulation of Matthew 24: 21.

But look at Isaiah 28: 18, "And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it."

Not only does Romans 1: 21-29 say that as judgment for changing God's truth into lies and worshipping man, that is, following man-made theology, and the creation rather than
the Creator these people will be given over to lesbianism and
homosexuality, but also that they will be given over to fornication, covetousness, envy, murder, and debate.

In the period of the early seventies in the watering holes of the counterculture - where social life flourished - the homosexual and lesbian movements followed hard on the heels of the counterculture which at first was predominantly heterosexual. Lesbianism became sexually and politically correct in the major universities after the early seventies. Political correctness was the same movement that Dean Gotcher calls Transformational Marxism, which is a Stealth
Marxism, that is not identified as Marxism by most.

But I want to focus more on debate as one of the expressions of the reprobate mind (Romans 1: 28).

The definition of the Greek word, eris, in Strong's means
a quarrel, wrangling, or contention. It is contentiousness, which is not becoming to a follower of Jesus Christ. A follower of Jesus Christ becomes a spiritual warrior, puts on the helmet of salvation, the breastplate of righteousness,
the shield of faith, feet shod with the Gospel, and above all has in his hand the sword of the Spirit, which is the word
of God, an offensive spiritual weapon.

But the spiritual warrior of Christ does not engage in a dialectic debate with those who disagree with his quoting of "it is written." And the warrior of Christ does not stay for a long time in an argument with one who has a dialectic mind. He shakes the dust off his feet and moves on (Matthew 10: 14). But he does quote "It is written," and never compromises the word in order to promote a relationship other than that with Christ and he as Truth. So, what is the dialectic than, as often used in debates, and in debates or arguments on Christian forums?

On a more general level the dialectic, which goes back in history of Hegel and Marx - but also to Genesis 3: 1-6 in the Garden - is an attempt to use man's understanding to diminish or win out over God's word and to overthrow God's patriarchal authority. The dialectic is man arguing from the flesh.

However, in Christian arguments those who use the dialectic will quote scripture to oppose "it is written," often implying that scripture is not consistent. If one person quotes a Bible verse or several verses, the person with the dialectic mind may come back and say, in effect, "But over here it says the opposite," to support his man-made understanding.

Lean Not To Your Own Understanding, But Follow God's Word and Let Him Direct Your Life

Proverbs 3: 5-7: "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 7. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil."

Lust of the Flesh, Lust of the Eyes and the Pride of Life

I John 2: 15-17: "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."

Human Flesh Wars Against the Spirit of God

Romans 7: 24-25 "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from
the body of this death?
25. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because
they are spiritually discerned." I Corinthians 2; 14

I am quoting below below from Dean Gotcher, a preacher of righteousness and scholar as the authority on the Transformational Marxist dialectic process.

authorityresearch.com Handouts for Meetings

Dean Gotcher says "DIDACTIC PARADIGM--Right is right and wrong is
wrong, therefore chastening is justified: "If ye endure chastening,
God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father
chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."

The didactic way of communicating for Christians is quoting scripture as "it is written," that is, in faith, knowing it is from the Holy Spirit and does not contradict itself.

Gotcher says of the dialectic that "DIALECTICAL PARADIGM; All is gray therefore dialogue, not
chastening, is justified: "The philosopher Hegel said that truth is
found neither in the thesis nor the antithesis [right or wrong], but
in an emerging synthesis which reconciles the two [dialogue]." Martin
Luther King Jr. Strength to Love
Karl Marx: "Once the earthy family [chastening] is discovered to
be the secret of the heavenly family [chastening], the former must
itself be destroyed in theory and in practice [dialogue]." Karl Marx,
Thesis on Feuerbach #4.
Abraham Maslow: "We have to study the conditions which maximize
ought-perceptiveness." "Oughtiness is itself a fact to be
perceived." A. H. Maslow, The Farther Reaches of Human Nature. ("I
have found whenever I ran across authoritarian students that the best
thing for me to do was to break their backs immediately. The correct
thing to do with authoritarians is to take them realistically for the
bastards they are and then behave toward them as if they were
bastards." Maslow, Maslow on Management)
Carl Rogers: "Prior to therapy the person is prone to ask
himself 'What would my parents want me to do?' During the process of
therapy the individual comes to ask himself 'What does it mean to
me?'" Carl R. Rogers, On becoming a person.
Benjamin Bloom: "We recognize the point of view that truth and
knowledge are only relative and that there are no hard and fast truths
which exist for all time and places." Benjamin S. Bloom, Taxonomy
of Educational Objectives Book I: Cognitive Domain (1956) Referred to
as Bloom's Taxonomy p. 32
Karl Marx: "In the eyes of dialectical philosophy, nothing is
established for all times, nothing is absolute or sacred."

There is more on the dialectic, which was made into an
attitude change procedure by the Group Dynamics movement, by the encounter group movement led by clinical psychologists and others, and popularized to become the dominant way of thinking and interacting verbally in the United States. The "long march through the institutions" of Transformational Marxism included
the Christian churches and the Christian seminaries where the False Prophets are hatched and trained.

this post is basically one long attempt at coming up with a theological excuse for dismissing anyone who disagrees with your theology...and for dismissing any scripture anyone provides to contradict your theology...

in other words...this is you trying to excuse stiff necked unteachability...even to the point of rejecting scriptural truth...

there is nothing wrong with christians having dialogue and 'reasoning together'...paul engaged in debate with his theological opponents all the time...

in fact...one method you condemn in this post is the exact method jesus himself used when satan was tempting him...satan quoted a scripture...and jesus countered with a different scripture quotation...

did you even bother consulting scripture when you contrived this philosophy?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One must remember Romans 1 is speaking of the natural world. The debate was what sin was, what the penalty of sin was, Who God was, etc etc. it was not on doctrines or truths of God in a general term.

I would not put what Paul said in romans to mean we can not debate scripture. And then even go further to say anyone who does is not a child of God (if thats what your inferring, since this is what romans 1 pertains to.

 

[edward99]

Political correctness was the same movement that Dean Gotcher calls Transformational Marxism, which is a Stealth Marxism, that is not identified as Marxism by most.

But the spiritual warrior of Christ does not engage in a dialectic debate with those who disagree with his quoting of "it is written."

I agree with you Texian.
The "liberals" (the soviets laughed at us when we adopted that term - they said it just means communist) love the PC dialectic. Hath God REALLY said?

I get what you're expressing.
This agenda has been embedded in our culture for so long people don't even know what it is! Hahaha.

Yuri Bezmenov: Ex-KGB Defector Warns America

Yuri Bezmenov: Ex-KGB Defector Warns America « CUT DC.COM

 

[texian]

eternally-grateful says "One must remember Romans 1 is speaking of the natural world. The debate was what sin was, what the penalty of sin was, Who God was, etc etc. it was not on doctrines or truths of God in a general term.

I would not put what Paul said in romans to mean we can not debate scripture. And then even go further to say anyone who does is not a child of God (if thats what your inferring, since this is what romans 1 pertains to."

Learn what the dialectic method of debate is, how it is based on man's leaning to his own understanding, and that it grew out of a system of thought which denies the existence of God. To say, therefore since the dialectic comes out of atheistic Marxism, that it has not invaded the Christian church and is not used by Christians in debate is false.

The quoting of scripture to show that some particular doctrine is false is not the dialectic process, but is a didactic way of communication, in the case of the Bible, acknowledging scripture as fact, as given by the Holy Spirit.

Getting into an argument on whether Romans 1 presents doctrines as truths from God with some on this forum would be endless. One of my points in posting this thread was to show the problem of those on Christian forums who love arguments for the sake of arguing. And I suspect one reason Paul included debate in this list in Romans 1: 29 was to show that those who like to quarrel and win arguments fits in with some of the other characteristics listed there, which can include deceptiveness and covetousness. Paul is talking about the reprobate mind of those who do not know God. But those who claim to know God but are not born again in Christ by the Spirit and do not know him and his doctrines can also have a reprobate mind.

Somewhere on this forum or on another I posted something called "Nihilism In American Social Interaction Sixty-One Years After Cultural Marxism Came In the Door: II Timothy 3: 1-7.

Paul in II Timothy 3: 1-7 gives us his prophecy about the personality traits
of people in the last days. "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

In 2012, about forty-six years after the counterculture got going in the United States in various centers, there
are personality types that show signs of nihilism in verbal interaction.

"Some people on Internet forums appear to be so interested in winning debates that they bash, mock, call others bad names, and misrepresent what others have said as part of their insulting and harassing interaction. These people
ridicule what others have posted, and may seem to destroy carefully documented positions of others on issues."

"Misrepresentation and
forms of ridicule by "trolls" is the dialectic method gone ballistic. Often, more civilized forms of the dialectic method of attitude change sidestep the main position of the person targeted and hit at his position from the side, in an attempt to move him gradually to a compromise. The "troll" blasts the target person from the front or side with slander, lies and misrepresentations."

 

[greatblue]

"Some people on Internet forums appear to be so interested in winning debates that they bash, mock, call others bad names, and misrepresent what others have said as part of their insulting and harassing interaction. These people ridicule what others have posted, and may seem to destroy carefully documented positions of others on issues."

"Misrepresentation and forms of ridicule by "trolls" is the dialectic method gone ballistic. Often, more civilized forms of the dialectic method of attitude change sidestep the main position of the person targeted and hit at his position from the side, in an attempt to move him gradually to a compromise. The "troll" blasts the target person from the front or side with slander, lies and misrepresentations."

Wait...there are trolls in the bible? I so need to read that whole Old Testament section again. Even better that they're debating trolls...that sounds awesome!



The above is an example of thread-trolling. Thread trolling usually injects levity into a thread with a dead or weak topic. For example, a two-month-old pandering diatribe about Dean Gotcher and dialectics could receive such a post.

 

[greatblue]

One of my points in posting this thread was to show the problem of those on Christian forums who love arguments for the sake of arguing.

So let me ask you...what are the other points? And then let me ask you, if you are starting this thread, are you not acknowledging that you yourself "love arguments"? I'm serious, Texian.

It took about 5 seconds to view your profile and posts. You've started a many number of threads that deal with some heavily contended theological matters. You start many your threads with a bombardment of text, which obviously contain some opinion, and I liken this to an individual standing behind a door with a very large club. Now let me touch on perspective. You've also never bothered to post anywhere but in the Bible Discussion Forum. Now, there are other forums and in those we're likely to see the walk of believers as they share struggles, offer encouragement, ask questions...it's the forums where God wins hearts, really. Again, I'm only presenting observations that you can draw conclusions from.

 

[edward99]

Wait...there are trolls in the bible? I so need to read that whole Old Testament section again. Even better that they're debating trolls...that sounds awesome!



The above is an example of thread-trolling. Thread trolling usually injects levity into a thread with a dead or weak topic. For example, a two-month-old pandering diatribe about Dean Gotcher and dialectics could receive such a post.

But this being a dead or weak thread is your opinion. Perhaps you're not interested in the subject; or understand what he's saying.

I find Texian's threads informative and useful.

"pandering diatribe"? hmmm

So he's not interested in miscellaneous threads of every stripe...I'm not either.
He's likely not interested in the singles or teen sections.

His posts address the scriptures every time. So really, what's your problem? He doesn't owe you anything, really.

As far as character goes, I see someone dedicated to the his area of study. I'm thankful he's here.

 

[greatblue]

That's fine edward99. It seemed a bit of putting on airs to me, in which I responded in kind--not good, I know. I understand it all entirely now. He keeps a few blogs and then posts his entries here on the Bible Discussion forum. That's fine, but it is the type of thing I'm not super keen on at CC. I now know to bypass it. The Remnant- JournalHome.com & Northwye Blog

 

[edward99]

That's fine edward99. It seemed a bit of putting on airs to me, in which I responded in kind--not good, I know. I understand it all entirely now. He keeps a few blogs and then posts his entries here on the Bible Discussion forum. That's fine, but it is the type of thing I'm not super keen on at CC. I now know to bypass it. The Remnant- JournalHome.com & Northwye Blog

OK. I didn't know about the blogs.
Still don't see it as putting on airs.
We don't have to agree with everything.

anyways, be blessed gb
ed

 

[texian]

"That's fine edward99. It seemed a bit of putting on airs to me, in which I responded in kind--not good, I know. I understand it all entirely now. He keeps a few blogs and then posts his entries here on the Bible Discussion forum. That's fine, but it is the type of thing I'm not super keen on at CC. I now know to bypass it. The Remnant- JournalHome.com & Northwye Blog"

I got booted out of a Christian forum called Crosswalk in the summer of 2011 for posting articles off of one of my blogs. The moderators did not like my posts critical of dispensationalism and went to the trouble of finding my blogs to prove I had copied some of my posts off of the blog. That same summer I also got kicked out of a forum called Rapture Ready for posting stuff showing dispensationalism disagrees with the New Testament.

Three friends of mine all got kicked out of a forum that is closed down now called Watchman's Cry for posting things that were not liked by the owners. Crosswalk apparently is reduced down now to being on Facebook.

I wonder of a person called Zone got kicked out of this forum. I think I saw something saying she had been banned. I agreed with some of her posts but not with all.

If a Christian forum is to kick people out for posting their own writings, whether from a blog or written especially for the forum, that use scripture to show a doctrine to be false, then the forum should be honest in saying which theologies it will allow and which it doesn't allow, and if it is open only to members of churches of recognized denominations.

But its the content of a writing, not whether it was on a blog or not, and its length which is not liked that has resulted in my being kicked off of forums and my three friends off of Watchman's Cry. If my posts supported dispensationalism and were byte speak, that is, each of a few sentences or two or three very short paragraphs, then probably no one would go to the trouble of finding my blogs.

 

[Red33]

When God gives a person or a group of people over to a reprobate mind, that means that they have been completely disapproved and unfit for human life. This disapproval comes from God because He has accessed and concluded that these have no capacity to receive anything that He might initiate to them because they do not like nor will they retain anything from God in their knowledge (Rom 1:28).

 

[texian]

II Thessalonians 2:11-12 says God sends strong delusion to those who do not have a love of the truth that they might be saved. In Romans 1; 28 God gives those who do not like to retain God in their knowledge (do not know God) over to a reprobate mind to do debased things (homosexuality, lesbianism).. But in neither scripture does it say that all who are sent strong delusion or given over to a reprobate mind must be lost forever. As long as some of these people are still breathing, there is a chance they can repent and accept Christ But "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." If one is not born again he does not have a love of the truth and is in danger of receiving strong delusion.

 

[Red33]

When God gives a person or a group of people over to a reprobate mind, that means that they have been completely disapproved and unfit for human life. This disapproval comes from God because He has accessed and concluded that these have no capacity to receive anything that He might initiate to them because they do not like nor will they retain anything from God in their knowledge (Rom 1:28).

This was the case and condition of those during the time of Noah. He was a preacher of righteousness (2Pt 2:5) but man would not hear it nor did they have a capacity to receive it, because the wickedness of man was great, the imaginations of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually and it repented the Lord that He had ever made man, grieving Him at his heart (Gen 6:5,6). These were unfit for human life and they were judged through the flood. God preserved man that He created when Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord with only eight being saved and commanded them to again be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth (Gen 8:17, 9:1).

Here is an interesting thing that God said in His heart after the flood in (Gen 8:21) ...

21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

There has been no cursing of the ground or smiting of every living thing since the time of the flood, however, the imagination of man's heart is still evil from his youth. This declaration from God did not exclude any man born of a woman except of course His Son, who would come at the appointed time (Gal 4:4).

 

[texian]

I was looking on Google for uses of the Greek word eris in the New Testament when i found this:

Debate As Expression of the Reprobate Mind In Romans 1: 29 ...
christianchat.com/.../45338-debate-expression-reprobate-mind...
8 posts - 5 authors - yesterday
Debate in Romans 1; 29 is from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 2054, eris, meaning "a quarrel, i.e, by implication wrangling, ...

I have not seen posts from christianchat.com on the Google Search Engine before. But this thread is on Google.
Which means that Google is allowed in to christianchat.com and what members write can appear on the Google Search Engine.

 

[tribesman]

II Thessalonians 2:11-12 says God sends strong delusion to those who do not have a love of the truth that they might be saved. In Romans 1; 28 God gives those who do not like to retain God in their knowledge (do not know God) over to a reprobate mind to do debased things (homosexuality, lesbianism).. But in neither scripture does it say that all who are sent strong delusion or given over to a reprobate mind must be lost forever. As long as some of these people are still breathing, there is a chance they can repent and accept Christ But "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." If one is not born again he does not have a love of the truth and is in danger of receiving strong delusion.

I can not agree with you here texian. If God sends these things on these people then that is indicative that He is NOT interesting in saving them.

Rom.1:32 says that those who practice these things are "worthy of death". So God allows them to walk in this filth, actively hardening their darkened hearts, all in order to condemn them.

2Thess.2:12 says that "That they all (all those that God sent strong delusion over) might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

This does not look like God is going about as a beggar, persuading them to "repent" or see a hope in some "chance" that they might "repent". No, God gave them up, God gave them over. They're finished, they're done - for time and eternity. He resists them and He hates them. Amen.

And, by the way, salvation is not about a "chance" for anyone. It is about God's work to save His people.

 

[texian]

"I can not agree with you here texian. If God sends these things on these people then that is indicative that He is NOT interesting in saving them.

Rom.1:32 says that those who practice these things are "worthy of death". So God allows them to walk in this filth, actively hardening their darkened hearts, all in order to condemn them.

2Thess.2:12 says that "That they all (all those that God sent strong delusion over) might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

This does not look like God is going about as a beggar, persuading them to "repent" or see a hope in some "chance" that they might "repent". No, God gave them up, God gave them over. They're finished, they're done - for time and eternity. He resists them and He hates them. Amen.

And, by the way, salvation is not about a "chance" for anyone. It is about God's work to save His people."

If anyone continues in his sin, and dies in his sin he is lost forever. Those who continue to to stay in the strong delusion until death are lost forever. I see Calvinist doctrine in your insistence that God decides even before they are born that some will be damned and others allowed to repent and be saved. .

 

[texian]

Meanings and NT Use of Eris, Dialegomai, Suzeteo and Epagonizomai - translated as Debate, Discuss, Reason, Dispute, Investigate Jointly, Enquire, and Earnestly Contend

This word study shows an important difference in meaning between eris translated as debate in Romans 1: 29, and the Greek words used to describe Paul's discussion or exhortation of the Gospel of Christ in the Book of Acts.

The meanings of eris, translated as debate in Romans 1: 29, point to debate as being strife
between two or more people, or two sides in an argument, and by contention between people expressed verbally.

But the meanings of Dialegomai, Suzeteo used for Paul's pesentation out of the Old Testament and from his own revelations from Christ and the Holy Spirit are generally not about a quarrel or debate as contention. Paul is presenting the truth in reasoning, preaching and exhortation to those
who have never known God, the Gentiles, and the Jews who hold now to a false view of God and of Israel reborn in Christ. Debate in Romans 1: 29 is more of a quarrelsome discourse, while the reasoning of Paul to teach the truth is not quarrelsome, but he is, like Jude 1; 3, contending for the Gospel of Christ and does not water it down or compromise it for the sake of human relationships.

For example, Acts 17: 17 says "Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him."

But the Interlinear Greek-English New Testament, by George Ricker Berry, 1958, translates dielegeto as "Therefore reasoned he in the syngogue with the Jews..." not disputed he....

The Greek word epagonizomai is used only in Jude 1: 3 where it is said to mean "earnstly content." "...ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." In pesenting the Gospel to those who have compromised it, it is entirely acceptable to earnesty contend with the opposition which will often occur when the truth is presented to those who do not like the truth. When the truth is presented this is not contentious quarreling.

Eris - Greek Lexicon

Transliterated Word
Eris

Definition:
contention, strife, wrangling

Translated Words
KJV (9) - contention, 2; debate, 2; strife, 4; variance, 1;

Romans 1: 29 - (debate)
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Romans 13:13 - (strife)
Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and
drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and
envying.

1Corinthians 1:11 - (contentions)
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them
which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

1Cointhians 3:3 - (strife)
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and
strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

2Corinthians 12:20 - (debates)
For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:

Galatians 5:20 - (variance - the Interlinear Greek-English New Testament by George Ricker Berry translates eris as strifes)
Here is part of Paul's list: Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife,
seditions, heresies,

Philippians 1:15 - (strife)
Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:

1Timothy 6:4 - (strife)
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

Titus 3:9 - (contentions)
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and
strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain

In the New Testament the Greek word eris is translated as strife four
times, as contention or contentions two times, as debate or debates
two times and as variance one time.

Eris is translated as debate twice, in Romans 1; 29 and in II
Corinthians 12: 20. Debate as a quarrel is strife and contentiousness
expressed verbally. In fact, strife between people is very often expressed in verbal terms as a quarrel.

The meanings of eris given by Strong's point to debate as being strife
between two or more people, or two sides in an argument, and by contention between people expressed verbally.

Dialegomai

Strong's number 1256, to say thoroughly, i.e. discuss, in
argumentation or exhortation, preach, reason, speak.

Dialegomai - Greek Lexicon

Definition
to think different things with one's self, mingle thought with thought
to ponder, revolve in mind
to converse, discourse with one, argue, discuss

KJV (13) - dispute, 6; preach, 1; preach unto, 1; reason, 2; reason
with, 2; speak, 1;

Ac 17:2 - [reasoned]
And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath
days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Ac 17:17 - [disputed, but The Interlinear Greek-English New Testament
by George Ricker Berry translates dialegomai as reasoned)
Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the
devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

Ac 18:4 - [reasoned]
And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the
Jews and the Greeks.

Ac 18:19 - [reasoned)
And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself
entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

Ac 19:8 - [persuading, but the Interlinear Greek-English New Testament
by George Ricker Berry translates dialegomai as reasoning)
And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of
three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the
kingdom of God.

Ac 19:9 - [disputing. The Interlinear Greek-English New testament, by
George Ricker Berry translates dialegomai as reasoning)
But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of
that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated
the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

Ac 20:7 - [preached, The Interlinear Geek-English New Testament by
George Ricker berry translates dialegomai as discoursed)
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came
together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on
the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Ac 20:9 - [preaching,The Interlinear Greek-English New testament by
George Ricker Berry has discoursed for dialegomai]
And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus,
being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he
sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken
up dead.

Ac 24:12 - [disputing)
And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man,
neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the
city:

Ac 24:25 - [reasoned)
And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to
come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; whenI
have a convenient season,I will call for thee.

Suzeteo

Strong's number 4802, to investigate jointly, i.e, discuss, dispute,
enquire, question, reason together.

Suzeteo - Greek Lexicon

Definition: to seek or examine together
in the NT to discuss, dispute, question

Translated Words
KJV (10) - dispute, 1; dispute with, 1; enquire, 1; question, 2;
question one with another, 1; question with, 2; reason, 1; reason
together, 1;

Ac 9:29 - [arguing, but the Interlinear Greek-English New Testament by
George Ricker Berry translates suzeteo as discussed)
And he was talking and arguing with the Hellenistic Jews; but they
were attempting to put him to death.

Epagonizomai

Strong's Number 1864, to struggle for, earnestly contend

Epagonizomai - Greek Lexicon

Jude 1:3 - [the one Greek word is translated as earnestly contend]
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common
salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you]
that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once
delivered unto the saints.

 

[texian]

Originally Posted by texian
Comment by greatblue (in the last few days)

Re: Debate As Expression of the Reprobate Mind In Romans 1: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by texian View Post
One of my points in posting this thread was to show the problem of those on Christian forums who love arguments for the sake of arguing.
So let me ask you...what are the other points? And then let me ask you, if you are starting this thread, are you not acknowledging that you yourself "love arguments"? I'm serious, Texian.

"It took about 5 seconds to view your profile and posts. You've started a many number of threads that deal with some heavily contended theological matters. You start many your threads with a bombardment of text, which obviously contain some opinion, and I liken this to an individual standing behind a door with a very large club. Now let me touch on perspective. You've also never bothered to post anywhere but in the Bible Discussion Forum. Now, there are other forums and in those we're likely to see the walk of believers as they share struggles, offer encouragement, ask questions...it's the forums where God wins hearts, really. Again, I'm only presenting observations that you can draw conclusions from."

Default Re: Debate As Expression of the Reprobate Mind In Romans 1: 29
"That's fine edward99. It seemed a bit of putting on airs to me, in which I responded in kind--not good, I know. I understand it all entirely now. He keeps a few blogs and then posts his entries here on the Bible Discussion forum. That's fine, but it is the type of thing I'm not super keen on at CC. I now know to bypass it. The Remnant- JournalHome.com & Northwye Blog"

It says today July 25, 2012 that this was was posted one day ago, but this comment was probably on July 22nd or the 23rd; Today is July 25th

My comment: great blue went to the trouble of searching Google to find, apparently, where I was getting the content for my posts here. The two links above are accurate to my blogs. The links work. Whether I took the post on Romans 1: 29 and debate off my blogs or created it for this forum first and then put it on the blogs was not researched by great blue. But the blog posts are dated.

On July 25, 2012 I first found that my blog "The Remnant - JournalHome.com has been suspended.
"This account has been Suspended, (Pending deletion).
This could be for many reasons,
Posible Terms of Service violation(s) or Improper contents.......The blog was reported and we agreed."

On the Internet, such as on Facebook, I have run into censorship of some of my posts before. Once on Facebook I posted something on the origins of dispensationalism, including some evidence that Zionists (Samuel Untermeyer, in particular) had given help to C.I. Scofield. Someone complained and I was warned, though not kicked off Facebook.

There may be no way of finding out if someone from this forum complained to the administrator of Journal Home about my posts. I am not sure how one would find a way to complain to that administrator.

The question is whether to continue posting here. I have stayed on because, unlike several other forums I have been on, the moderators have not given me trouble, and I have been booted out of Crosswalk Forum and Rapture Ready, and three friends of mine were kicked out of Watchman's Cry, they said, for posting stuff using Luke 13: 21 on the leavening of the churches.

(texian)
I don't have time to read all of that. Can you say it in four sentences or less?