Women as Preachers: Does God's word authorize this???

[A-Omega]

Of course women can speak in the church and sometimes teach.
However, the order in the church needs to remain according to the will of God. Women should not take the position of head pastor when a man is present. Not saying this is sexist, but it just goes according to godly order The head pastor or the head of the local church should indeed be a man.

Amen. Well said.

 

[JaumeJ]

1. I am saying that anyone who does not meet the Biblical requirements for a Pastor should not be a pastor. I said nothing about sinners in general. A Pastor is required to be "the husband of one wife" so a gay person would not qualify either.

2. You err on Paul because you assume that he made scripture based on his personal experiences. The Bible says all scripture is God breathed. None of the Biblical authors were just writing their own opinions. If you believe that they were than why even bother with the Bible? You could just write your own.

It has always been my understanding the Word is miraculously maintained for all generations to benefit from it, and that it is written down by men from Yahweh, Himself. You neglect to keep in mind that Paul is addressing specific assemblies with specific questions. Some were gentile, some were Jews who believe Yeshua. I know in the spirit there is not man there is not woman, thus any teaching of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the container. As per the titles of individuals and the prerequisites for each appointed, well, perhaps there were certain that were only for men, but I know from experience there are Holy Spirit filled women who are gifted to teach and to preach. Perhaps you would feel alleviated were I to leave it at that without a title. If you are taking the word pastor as applied to being a shepherd there are many shepherdesses throughout the ages, perhaps this does not apply to the sheep of Yahweh? I believe it does though. As truly concerning the Body of Yeshua, I know of no true theology since names were given to them, so my having any serious debate on this subject is proven moot by my own admission here.

 

[A-Omega]

It has always been my understanding the Word is miraculously maintained for all generations to benefit from it, and that it is written down by men from Yahweh, Himself. You neglect to keep in mind that Paul is addressing specific assemblies with specific questions. Some were gentile, some were Jews who believe Yeshua. I know in the spirit there is not man there is not woman, thus any teaching of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the container. As per the titles of individuals and the prerequisites for each appointed, well, perhaps there were certain that were only for men, but I know from experience there are Holy Spirit filled women who are gifted to teach and to preach. Perhaps you would feel alleviated were I to leave it at that without a title. If you are taking the word pastor as applied to being a shepherd there are many shepherdesses throughout the ages, perhaps this does not apply to the sheep of Yahweh? I believe it does though. As truly concerning the Body of Yeshua, I know of no true theology since names were given to them, so my having any serious debate on this subject is proven moot by my own admission here.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The Bible does not have portions that apply "just to those people back then." It is all profitable for doctrine for all Christians for all time.

That last part of the verse is seldom-discussed but very critical. As a Christian, you can't do good things outside of Scripture. It is the foundation of all we do. Again, I am just repeating what the Bible clearly says. So if we put our own spin on things and re-adjust the Bible to suit our purposes we are not doing good.

And I think I am being very clear when I am talking about Pastors. I have no problem with women teaching other women or girls in classes. Or women preaching at women's conferences. I similarly don't have a problem doing a Bible study with a woman. We all know who Pastors are and what they do. And that is where the Bible is specific. So it's just a matter of do you believe God or do you believe your own ideas?

 

[anonymous04]

I always think of it this way......There's 200 people who have never been to church and all show up to a new one. There is a woman who is a bieliever there but there is no pastor. So she gets up to teach people about Jesus? Would God frown upon this? Or would he frown upon her keeping silent?

 

[A-Omega]

I always think of it this way......There's 200 people who have never been to church and all show up to a new one. There is a woman who is a bieliever there but there is no pastor. So she gets up to teach people about Jesus? Would God frown upon this? Or would he frown upon her keeping silent?

Great question. This has already happened in Scripture. King Saul, who was a Benjamite, took it upon himself to perform sacrifices to God that only a Levite priest is commanded to by scripture (because there was no Levite around). And what did the prophet say in response?

"And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams." 1 Samuel 15:22

And as we know Saul's punishment was severe:

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Again, we are to be guided by Scripture.

 

[JaumeJ]

Great question. This has already happened in Scripture. King Saul, who was a Benjamite, took it upon himself to perform sacrifices to God that only a Levite priest is commanded to by scripture (because there was no Levite around). And what did the prophet say in response?

"And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams." 1 Samuel 15:22

And as we know Saul's punishment was severe:

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Again, we are to be guided by Scripture.

If you are indeed guided by the Word, read the following on the verse refering to women preaching:

I was troubled by the intent of this post, and upon further contemplation I recall that Paul had qualified this teaching against women teaching or preaching the word as his personal imposition on the believers when he state "I suffer no woman to....". Knowing from the letters Paul's history, and seeing the qualification he has established using the first person singular with no reference to it being Yahweh's or Yeshua's will, I stand that woman are allowed to be preachers. As per whatever a particular sinner was (past tense) previous to receiving Yeshua, Jesus, as his or her savior, I know of no dispensation for any one person to bar his or her preaching the Word, as long as it is handled in spirit and truth. If you do not judge, you will not be judged, but beware of making harmful decisions and imposing them on those whom Yeshua, God, has made clean. Yahweh be praised and glorified always, amen. The particular verse is here below in several versions of the Word and diverse languages. All use the first person singular in the pertinent phrase with no reference to it being the will of Yahweh.
1Ti 2:12
(ASV) But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.
(Darby) but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;
(DRB) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
(FDB) mais je ne permets pas à la femme d'enseigner ni d'user d'autorité sur l'homme; mais elle doit demeurer dans le silence;
(FLS) Je ne permets pas à la femme d'enseigner, ni de prendre de l'autorité sur l'homme; mais elle doit demeurer dans le silence.

(HNT) ואינני נתן רשות לאשה ללמד אף לא להתנשא על־האיש אך תדום׃
​

(INR) Poiché non permetto alla donna d'insegnare, né di usare autorità sul marito, ma stia in silenzio.
(IRL) Poiché non permetto alla donna d'insegnare, né d'usare autorità sul marito, ma stia in silenzio.
(KJV) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(KJV+) ButG1161 I sufferG2010 notG3756 a womanG1135 to teach,G1321 norG3761 to usurp authority overG831 the man,G435 butG235 to beG1511 inG1722 silence.G2271
(ROB) Nu îngăduiesc femeii nici să înveţe pe altul, nici să stăpânească pe bărbat, ci să stea liniştită.
(SSE) Porque no permito a una mujer enseñar, ni tomar autoridad sobre el varón, sino estar reposada.
(Vulgate) docere autem mulieri non permitto neque dominari in virum sed esse in silentio
(Webster) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(WNT) I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.
　
　

 

[jimmydiggs]

this does not change The facts that God, indeed, called The Paula White's and Joyce Meyer''s

This statement connects a lot of dots.

Legalism, jimdig . Just like The pharasees accusing (soundw like Satan doesnt it?) Jesus of sinning by healing others ahd doing 'works' on The sabbath.

If you think it is legalistic of me to point to scripture and say, "look, Paul says not to have women preaching over men...", then by all means, sign me up to the Legalist Times, because it sounds like they are better at understanding scripture than Mainline Protestants.


[/quote]
What does God want from us, ultimately when it comes to resting on The sabbath? Not our sacrifice but our compassion.
[/QUOTE]

This is not about not working on the Sabbath. It's about doing things the way God has asked us to, or thinking we can offer a sacrifice of vegetables like Cain did, and expecting it to suffice.

 

[JaumeJ]

This statement connects a lot of dots.

If you think it is legalistic of me to point to scripture and say, "look, Paul says not to have women preaching over men...", then by all means, sign me up to the Legalist Times, because it sounds like they are better at understanding scripture than Mainline Protestants.

What does God want from us, ultimately when it comes to resting on The sabbath? Not our sacrifice but our compassion.
[/b][/color][/quote]

This is not about not working on the Sabbath. It's about doing things the way God has asked us to, or thinking we can offer a sacrifice of vegetables like Cain did, and expecting it to suffice.[/quote]

If you are indeed guided by the Word, read the following on the verse refering to women preaching:

I was troubled by the intent of this post, and upon further contemplation I recall that Paul had qualified this teaching against women teaching or preaching the word as his personal imposition on the believers when he state "I suffer no woman to....". Knowing from the letters Paul's history, and seeing the qualification he has established using the first person singular with no reference to it being Yahweh's or Yeshua's will, I stand that woman are allowed to be preachers. As per whatever a particular sinner was (past tense) previous to receiving Yeshua, Jesus, as his or her savior, I know of no dispensation for any one person to bar his or her preaching the Word, as long as it is handled in spirit and truth. If you do not judge, you will not be judged, but beware of making harmful decisions and imposing them on those whom Yeshua, God, has made clean. Yahweh be praised and glorified always, amen. The particular verse is here below in several versions of the Word and diverse languages. All use the first person singular in the pertinent phrase with no reference to it being the will of Yahweh.
1Ti 2:12
(ASV) But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.
(Darby) but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;
(DRB) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
(FDB) mais je ne permets pas à la femme d'enseigner ni d'user d'autorité sur l'homme; mais elle doit demeurer dans le silence;
(FLS) Je ne permets pas à la femme d'enseigner, ni de prendre de l'autorité sur l'homme; mais elle doit demeurer dans le silence.

(HNT) ואינני נתן רשות לאשה ללמד אף לא להתנשא על־האיש אך תדום׃​

(INR) Poiché non permetto alla donna d'insegnare, né di usare autorità sul marito, ma stia in silenzio.
(IRL) Poiché non permetto alla donna d'insegnare, né d'usare autorità sul marito, ma stia in silenzio.
(KJV) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(KJV+) ButG1161 I sufferG2010 notG3756 a womanG1135 to teach,G1321 norG3761 to usurp authority overG831 the man,G435 butG235 to beG1511 inG1722 silence.G2271
(ROB) Nu îngăduiesc femeii nici să înveţe pe altul, nici să stăpânească pe bărbat, ci să stea liniştită.
(SSE) Porque no permito a una mujer enseñar, ni tomar autoridad sobre el varón, sino estar reposada.
(Vulgate) docere autem mulieri non permitto neque dominari in virum sed esse in silentio
(Webster) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(WNT) I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.
　
　

As you may appreciate in the post immediately above, Paul is the one who had an aversion, a personal aversion to women preaching. This is NOT the will of God.

 

[jimmydiggs]

As you may appreciate in the post immediately above, Paul is the one who had an aversion, a personal aversion to women preaching. This is NOT the will of God.

Ahh, the old, "but you see... sometimes they weren't inspired by God!"

The bible states it clearly, believe it or be in rebellion.

 

[JaumeJ]

Ahh, the old, "but you see... sometimes they weren't inspired by God!"

The bible states it clearly, believe it or be in rebellion.

Do you pretend to declare Paul, speaking in the first person singular is gifted in speaking for God, putting his own preference as inspired by God? If you are, this is not of the Holy Spirit. Did you read the post? No one is disobeying God in permitting a woman to preach the Word. It is in several languages, Paul says I do not suffer or I do not allow, it says nowhere God does not suffer, nor God does not allow.

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

Do you pretend to declare Paul, speaking in the first person singular is gifted in speaking for God, putting his own preference as inspired by God? If you are, this is not of the Holy Spirit. Did you read the post? No one is disobeying God in permitting a woman to preach the Word. It is in several languages, Paul says I do not suffer or I do not allow, it says nowhere God does not suffer, nor God does not allow.

Was David inspired by God when he wrote Psalms 22? He used the word "I" quite a bit.

Psa 22:1 To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Psa 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
Psa 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Psa 22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
Psa 22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
Psa 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
Psa 22:8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
Psa 22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
Psa 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Psa 22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
Psa 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
Psa 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
Psa 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Psa 22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
Psa 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
Psa 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Psa 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
Psa 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
Psa 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
Psa 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
Psa 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
Psa 22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
Psa 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
Psa 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
Psa 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

 

[JaumeJ]

Was David inspired by God when he wrote Psalms 22? He used the word "I" quite a bit.

Psa 22:1 To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Psa 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
Psa 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Psa 22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
Psa 22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
Psa 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
Psa 22:8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
Psa 22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
Psa 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Psa 22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
Psa 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
Psa 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
Psa 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Psa 22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
Psa 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
Psa 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Psa 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
Psa 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
Psa 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
Psa 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
Psa 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
Psa 22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
Psa 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
Psa 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
Psa 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

Yes King David did, and sometimes he was talking about himself and others he was prophesying about the true David, or beloved, that being Jesus Christ, Yeshua. However Paul has demonstrated his own personal preference here is stating HE DOES NOT SUFFER WOMEN..... Believe me, when I have listened to certain women preach, Joyce Meyers my favorite, no one can deny the woman is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Grammatically and spiritually speaking, no one is going to convince me that the scripture reference used by most to deny women the right to preach is simply Paul's personal preference, and it also dealt with customs at the time. If you do not believe this, look at his description as regarding the attire of men and women. There is no one quite so blind as he who refuses to see, no one quite so deaf as he who will not listen. By the way, I am not terrified of woman preaching the Word.

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

Yes King David did, and sometimes he was talking about himself and others he was prophesying about the true David, or beloved, that being Jesus Christ, Yeshua. However Paul has demonstrated his own personal preference here is stating HE DOES NOT SUFFER WOMEN..... Believe me, when I have listened to certain women preach, Joyce Meyers my favorite, no one can deny the woman is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Grammatically and spiritually speaking, no one is going to convince me that the scripture reference used by most to deny women the right to preach is simply Paul's personal preference, and it also dealt with customs at the time. If you do not believe this, look at his description as regarding the attire of men and women. There is no one quite so blind as he who refuses to see, no one quite so deaf as he who will not listen. By the way, I am not terrified of woman preaching the Word.

You say that its Pauls personal preference but in reality, you are basing this on your personal preference. You personally dont have a problem with women preaching, so if anyone in scripture says that women shouldn't be preachers, then they must be uninspired or speaking from their own opinions. Its the same argument that those who defend homosexuality use. They say "oh, he was not inspired of God when he said that" or "He was just giving his opinion" or "That only applied to their culture at that time".

 

[Mediate]

Women aren't supposed to teach in church because taking authority away from men means taking authority away from God.

Men are to be subservient to their God. And women to their men. Mix it up and the message gets messy.

It's really as simple as that.

The same way any man who is subservient to his wife denies himself and her the proper relationship God wants for them.

It isn't about control.

I don't want to control my girlfriend. I don't want to tell her what to do all the time, but she realises that she is more suited to what she does and I to what I do.

she is happier to let me deal with the things that I deal with and her the things she deals with.

We are to think of God as the perfect bridegroom. And women to think of their men that way. How would God feel if I said 'No, I want to be equal God, I'll do what I want. I'll teach YOU!'

This is kinda the same thing. It's a rebellious thing.

Gender roles are there for a reason. I know a whole generation of guys who let girls run over them. And a whole generation of girls who have no idea how to behave like women. Unattractive in the most vile way.

This back and forth;

woman: I want control

Man: No

woman: you are a chavinist and abusive

Man: Ok have control

4 years later

woman: you are lazy and you never take responsibility, you aren't a real man.

Man: what do you want from me????

Back in the 50's it was easier. People understood. sure you got a lot of men who took advantage and made almost slaves of their wives, but that's not down to the law back then, that's down to those individual men.

I, personally, like gender roles. Not because I wan't control, but because it makes her feel secure, and it makes me feel strong. And it works. I treat her with love and she treats me with respect.

the only reason anyone, man or woman, would refute these roles is for either: 1. Desire for power (on woman's end) or 2: weakness (on man's end)

 

[newcovenantchristian]

Yes King David did, and sometimes he was talking about himself and others he was prophesying about the true David, or beloved, that being Jesus Christ, Yeshua. However Paul has demonstrated his own personal preference here is stating HE DOES NOT SUFFER WOMEN..... Believe me, when I have listened to certain women preach, Joyce Meyers my favorite, no one can deny the woman is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Grammatically and spiritually speaking, no one is going to convince me that the scripture reference used by most to deny women the right to preach is simply Paul's personal preference, and it also dealt with customs at the time. If you do not believe this, look at his description as regarding the attire of men and women. There is no one quite so blind as he who refuses to see, no one quite so deaf as he who will not listen. By the way, I am not terrified of woman preaching the Word.

Though I would not be comfortable with women as the norm for being ministers in churches, I like you recognise that God has raised up many individually women to teach the truths of His word. Indeed, my favourite books have been reading of how God used Kathryn Khulman, inspite of what many perceive her glaring faults(we all have them)
I guess we just cannot put God in a box and say he must work this way or that. It is for Him to decide through whom he wishes the message to be known, and if sometimes he chooses to use women who am I to argue?

 

[Mediate]

There's a difference between God directly speaking to a woman (for instance, Mary), and a woman teaching a man on the study of the bible A HUGE difference.

If a woman came to me and I was an apostle, and knew she hung with Jesus, and she said 'Jesus told me this', I'd listen.

If a woman came into a church and said 'I know better, and I'm teaching you all', I'd find another church.

 

[Mediate]

I always think of it this way......There's 200 people who have never been to church and all show up to a new one. There is a woman who is a bieliever there but there is no pastor. So she gets up to teach people about Jesus? Would God frown upon this? Or would he frown upon her keeping silent?

God wouldn't want a church without a pastor, in all honesty. Whether or not the woman gets up to speak, there's something fundamentally wrong with that ^^ church.

 

[Kathleen]

Because of the quoted scripture ...women should not speak in Church, as the bible clearly states.

I do not understand how people can possibly justify it when God has laid it out such a clear way. Black and White.

Just has men are to under Gods authority, women serve under man.

Let women learn through their husbands, fathers and brothers.

If a woman speaks in church, I believe it to be a complete disregard for the Lords commandments and she would be just as-well to rip that page out of the bible.

God Bless

-Kath

 

[JaumeJ]

You say that its Pauls personal preference but in reality, you are basing this on your personal preference. You personally dont have a problem with women preaching, so if anyone in scripture says that women shouldn't be preachers, then they must be uninspired or speaking from their own opinions. Its the same argument that those who defend homosexuality use. They say "oh, he was not inspired of God when he said that" or "He was just giving his opinion" or "That only applied to their culture at that time".

If it makes you content to think in these terms. The prohibition of women never crossed my mind the first time I read Paul's opinion 40 odd years ago, nor consequent times I have read it.

 

[JaumeJ]

Women aren't supposed to teach in church because taking authority away from men means taking authority away from God.

Men are to be subservient to their God. And women to their men. Mix it up and the message gets messy.

It's really as simple as that.

The same way any man who is subservient to his wife denies himself and her the proper relationship God wants for them.

It isn't about control.

I don't want to control my girlfriend. I don't want to tell her what to do all the time, but she realises that she is more suited to what she does and I to what I do.

she is happier to let me deal with the things that I deal with and her the things she deals with.

We are to think of God as the perfect bridegroom. And women to think of their men that way. How would God feel if I said 'No, I want to be equal God, I'll do what I want. I'll teach YOU!'

This is kinda the same thing. It's a rebellious thing.

Gender roles are there for a reason. I know a whole generation of guys who let girls run over them. And a whole generation of girls who have no idea how to behave like women. Unattractive in the most vile way.

This back and forth;

woman: I want control

Man: No

woman: you are a chavinist and abusive

Man: Ok have control

4 years later

woman: you are lazy and you never take responsibility, you aren't a real man.

Man: what do you want from me????

Back in the 50's it was easier. People understood. sure you got a lot of men who took advantage and made almost slaves of their wives, but that's not down to the law back then, that's down to those individual men.

I, personally, like gender roles. Not because I wan't control, but because it makes her feel secure, and it makes me feel strong. And it works. I treat her with love and she treats me with respect.

the only reason anyone, man or woman, would refute these roles is for either: 1. Desire for power (on woman's end) or 2: weakness (on man's end)

You do know we are taught God is Spirit and would be worshipped in Spirit and Truth? The term Father for God is simply His choice to be called. There is no male or female come the Kingdom but we are all like the angels. This teaching is from Jesus, Yeshua. This all deals with the true nature of all in the spirit, putting aside any role in the flesh, for the flesh is a temporal condition. Consider this if you will. I know you think a lot. Meditation is always good in spiritual pursuits.