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P
Dear friend, I believe Mrs. Gren herself (Elliot) would disabuse you of the notion she is, or would be, a pastor. I have her books, and visit her website. Yes, she does teach the application of the Word to life (to other women, as far as I have seen), but this is not the same as being a pastor. I have never seen an instance of her preaching to a church assmbley during the service, or shepherding a flock, i.e. church.
I am saddened to see her put in the same place as the other women you mention.
The Word teaches; the Spirit leads...would I expect them to contradict one another? Surely not.
Oh, how I dislike disagreement! It just isn't my nature to argue. I am sorrowful to disagree with you, but this is my conviction, and I stand on it.
Women are indeed used mightlity in the Lord's hands!! Just not in the way we are discussing here.
~ellie
ps- your post made me smile--my kiddos write to me as "momma".
and I thank you for your courtesy!
I am saddened to see her put in the same place as the other women you mention.
The Word teaches; the Spirit leads...would I expect them to contradict one another? Surely not.
Oh, how I dislike disagreement! It just isn't my nature to argue. I am sorrowful to disagree with you, but this is my conviction, and I stand on it.
Women are indeed used mightlity in the Lord's hands!! Just not in the way we are discussing here.
~ellie
ps- your post made me smile--my kiddos write to me as "momma".
and I thank you for your courtesy!
G
Dear friend, I believe Mrs. Gren herself (Elliot) would disabuse you of the notion she is, or would be, a pastor. I have her books, and visit her website. Yes, she does teach the application of the Word to life (to other women, as far as I have seen), but this is not the same as being a pastor. I have never seen an instance of her preaching to a church assmbley during the service, or shepherding a flock, i.e. church.
I am saddened to see her put in the same place as the other women you mention.
The Word teaches; the Spirit leads...would I expect them to contradict one another? Surely not.
Oh, how I dislike disagreement! It just isn't my nature to argue. I am sorrowful to disagree with you, but this is my conviction, and I stand on it.
Women are indeed used mightlity in the Lord's hands!! Just not in the way we are discussing here.
~ellie
ps- your post made me smile--my kiddos write to me as "momma".
and I thank you for your courtesy!
I am saddened to see her put in the same place as the other women you mention.
The Word teaches; the Spirit leads...would I expect them to contradict one another? Surely not.
Oh, how I dislike disagreement! It just isn't my nature to argue. I am sorrowful to disagree with you, but this is my conviction, and I stand on it.
Women are indeed used mightlity in the Lord's hands!! Just not in the way we are discussing here.
~ellie
ps- your post made me smile--my kiddos write to me as "momma".
and I thank you for your courtesy!
She 'teaches' others, which is, not so coincidentally, the word Paul uses in his letters to Timothy.
She has her own radio show, nationally broadcast, syndicated.
She is a gentle spirit of our God and King, psychomomma, but she is well loved and listened to by men and women in usa, and, in this age, God surely has her powerful 'virginity' words heard around The world. Her bestselling book, Passion and Purity is excellent for young, and, old. What a Love story ! . It's fine to disagree, we MUST, individually(even though, yes, a husband and wife become 'one flesh' after being married) follow Him , let He who made you, knows ALL your days, speak through you.
I do not doubt for one second this topic would be severely controversial, and, I assure you, I do not and will not ever KNOWINGLY blasheme God's Word. Coincidentally, and, consequently, everything I've said so far is a result of what I've learned from God's power working in my life, cutting, pruning, growing, I highly recommend reading 'Prayer of Jabez,' 'Secret of the Vine, and, 'A Life God Rewards,' Bruce Wilkinson books with great meaning of the great power of God that can be in our life by our great growing of our 'measure of faith' God-given to us.
The 'Prayer of Jabez for Women' I not read but that I'm certain would be good, too. Short books, easy reads.
Your husband is Godly smart, too, p--momma I've heard his interpretation of things you've sounded off here, you've told me (in pm) or to the c.c. discussion. Great understanding of God, what a blessing for you both.
The Lord leads.
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E
WOMEN PREACHERS
It’s possible that there maybe a lot more going on here than just legalism and the rumble of overly sexist undertones. Men and women are fundamentally different in many ways including their potential vulnerabilities .If we go right back to the beginning when Eve was approached with promises of great understanding including God like decision making with the knowledge of good and evil. I believe much is revealed.
A woman’s perceptive and intuitive skills are legendary as I’m sure most men would agree. They are keenly aware of their environment and possess an excellent understanding of what is required to build a nest and provide for their young so to speak. In order for the female to succeed in the harsh surroundings of the world she has to be constantly looking to gain advantage in all areas of life.
The point I am trying to make is that the serpent went straight to Eve not Adam; it is my belief that this was a purely tactical move. There would have been little point in him approaching Adam because, if his social proclivities were anything like modern mans he could have been very happy sitting under a tree only interested in what he was going to eat next .Therefore tempting Adam with the knowledge of good an evil would have been a futile exercise .After all it took the words of a woman to turn his head .Satan has always been aware of a woman’s talents as regards her persuasive capabilities. The truth is Satan went straight to Eve knowing that such promises would tickle her ears and almost certainly lead her to believe she would gain an advantage. The Bible says that woman is the weaker vessel .This has absolutely nothing to do with a woman’s ability as regards her intelligence , integrity or her social standing, on the contrary I would say it’s quite the opposite .I personally have worked with, and for women that were intellectually far superior to me. Could it be that women are advised not to teach in church to protect them from the enemy? .Man is a simple creature and in this instance it is indeed to his benefit .He has simple needs that I, being a man, am very familiar with. Therefore if man has simple needs it makes him easier to control .Scripture tells us that the female of the species is certainly vulnerable when it comes to fallen Angels as Genesis 6 states .It is possible to be too attuned to the environment for ones own good .Satan has used this tactic from the very beginning and I’m sure he will continue to do so.
G
Just like jimdig generalized women preachers with his 'wretched radio' post calling Joyce Meyers heretic, like jimdig says all are who don't understand that Jesus and God are different peoople, EgoA, I see you going a step further than his mighty judgmentalism....
.....to generalizing WOMEN . Don't do it !! Is God speaking to you now? Does the Spirit lead you life, is your spirit led by His Spirit? IF He is leading you to speak this way and I am missing something, forgive me, as this topic is touchy to me because I KNOW, in my mind, dear Lord, amen, that a woman can and has taught me things, like Elizabeth Elliott, even women preachers who guested at my church, like Huldah Buntain, who is a missionary in India. ,Otherwise, unless you distinctly hear the Lord telling you to notch WOMEN lower don't do it.
I highly question that this is not your own ego, angel, and, there are angels of darkness, not just light, that follow the prince of darkness. So....don't you DARE let the Enemy get you all ego'd up
Why say that Satan picked the woman, Eve, because of her weakness, her easily being deceived choice ??
This is dispiriting and debasing to women, can't you see that, or, are your eyes blinding you into seeing something that isn't there? And, in this case, egoA, what you see is not 'faith.' It's not Hebrews 11:1 speaking to you It is Satan !)
Man and woman BOTH have God's authority to preach, thye PROOF is in the current times, WOMEN PREACH ! And, I've heard them, as I said, they preach powerFULLY, full of mercy and grace. And, women are FULL of peace, too, a quality we men seem to war with constantly
Just because Paul says they should keep 'silent' and not 'teach,' and, that Paul does not want to 'suffer' through a woman teaching him does not mean ALL men (yes, inspired prophets of God writing things of His Word) think the same way. They don't think the same way ! Paul was quite, shall I say, no, I know not how to say it so it's the same thought, or, that I know of my thoughts congruent with, OK, I will say it, Paul spoke in wavering words, Paul spoke in words that were NOT law. Really ? It's LAW that a man cannot keep His hair long. Is God going to keep YOU out of Heaven for LONG HAIR ? Will that long-haired man's eyes NEVER see paradise?
Of course not! God is in a personal relationship with EACH one of His sheep, the only way the long-haired man won't see Heaven is IF He decides not to believe in God's will for His life and then serves Satan as master. THAT is the ONLY way that long-haired man departs from the faith; he sees the pleasure of the other side of life with worldly, quick-gain pleasures and jumps to it !!! YES, scripture is clear, Paul speaking, that we CAN depart the faith, 'many will,' is how Paul says it, or, just 'some will,' but I think the word is 'many .'
Anyway, yes, your insight is interesting but to put woman in a lower esteem place than man is not right. Yes, man is over woman but man is to FEAR GOD scripture says in being over woman, so, that said, you can be sure a Christ-led man will treat that woman like Joseph did Mary, with fear, reverence, awe, understanding, and, Love her like God would want her Loved.
Don't get me wrong either, there is definite principle in man over woman, scripture is clear of the order of authority, God->man->woman. But to say that women cannot preach because they can be deceived by Satan more, because of Satan deceiving Eve in garden is blindly preaching, and, as feed3m says in his signature, be careful of teaching others things, because WE will be judged more discriminately by God
.....to generalizing WOMEN . Don't do it !! Is God speaking to you now? Does the Spirit lead you life, is your spirit led by His Spirit? IF He is leading you to speak this way and I am missing something, forgive me, as this topic is touchy to me because I KNOW, in my mind, dear Lord, amen, that a woman can and has taught me things, like Elizabeth Elliott, even women preachers who guested at my church, like Huldah Buntain, who is a missionary in India. ,Otherwise, unless you distinctly hear the Lord telling you to notch WOMEN lower don't do it.
I highly question that this is not your own ego, angel, and, there are angels of darkness, not just light, that follow the prince of darkness. So....don't you DARE let the Enemy get you all ego'd up
Why say that Satan picked the woman, Eve, because of her weakness, her easily being deceived choice ??
This is dispiriting and debasing to women, can't you see that, or, are your eyes blinding you into seeing something that isn't there? And, in this case, egoA, what you see is not 'faith.' It's not Hebrews 11:1 speaking to you
It is Satan !) Man and woman BOTH have God's authority to preach, thye PROOF is in the current times, WOMEN PREACH ! And, I've heard them, as I said, they preach powerFULLY, full of mercy and grace. And, women are FULL of peace, too, a quality we men seem to war with constantly
Just because Paul says they should keep 'silent' and not 'teach,' and, that Paul does not want to 'suffer' through a woman teaching him does not mean ALL men (yes, inspired prophets of God writing things of His Word) think the same way. They don't think the same way ! Paul was quite, shall I say, no, I know not how to say it so it's the same thought, or, that I know of my thoughts congruent with, OK, I will say it, Paul spoke in wavering words, Paul spoke in words that were NOT law. Really ? It's LAW that a man cannot keep His hair long. Is God going to keep YOU out of Heaven for LONG HAIR ? Will that long-haired man's eyes NEVER see paradise?
Of course not! God is in a personal relationship with EACH one of His sheep, the only way the long-haired man won't see Heaven is IF He decides not to believe in God's will for His life and then serves Satan as master. THAT is the ONLY way that long-haired man departs from the faith; he sees the pleasure of the other side of life with worldly, quick-gain pleasures and jumps to it !!! YES, scripture is clear, Paul speaking, that we CAN depart the faith, 'many will,' is how Paul says it, or, just 'some will,' but I think the word is 'many .'
Anyway, yes, your insight is interesting but to put woman in a lower esteem place than man is not right. Yes, man is over woman but man is to FEAR GOD scripture says in being over woman, so, that said, you can be sure a Christ-led man will treat that woman like Joseph did Mary, with fear, reverence, awe, understanding, and, Love her like God would want her Loved.
Don't get me wrong either, there is definite principle in man over woman, scripture is clear of the order of authority, God->man->woman. But to say that women cannot preach because they can be deceived by Satan more, because of Satan deceiving Eve in garden is blindly preaching, and, as feed3m says in his signature, be careful of teaching others things, because WE will be judged more discriminately by God
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In 1st Corinthians, when Paul talks about women being silent in church, it is taken out of context. Paul was responding to a letter that the Corinthian church had sent him, saying that the church was out of order and that the women were causing problems. For some reason, we do not get to see this letter. All we see is Pauls reponse to this letter. What if someone asked me ''Would you rather drink spoiled milk or eat a rotten apple'' I answer that i would choose the rotten apple. Now, you never got to see the question that was asked of me. All you got to see was my response to the question. Therefore this may lead you to believe that I like rotten apples, when in fact I do not.
I agree, we should not conclude either way, but we certainly can use it to consider Paul's letters.
I have found this thread quite enlightening to see a diverse opinion....
It really shows us much, like how people will accept Paul on this matter word for word, but verses where he actually says to Keep the commandments of Yahvah God, do not get so much priority for observing......
1 Corinthians
Yet, he says no women Preachers and many will fight it with a passion.............
Peace and Blessings in the name of Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.
Sharing the Truth with a man is not having authority over him..... surely?
I will share this with you, a while back i was flying home, and always been a reluctant air traveler...
I liked to see the pilot to "measure him up" see if he looks "trustworthy" ....
Well, along came a lady pilot... and honestly i thought "oh no" i was uneasy with a female pilot... something deep rooted in me came forward....
So, yes there could be a good reason for Paul to have written this.............
Though, i think discernment should certainly be in mind... better a female teacher speaking truth, than a male who is spreading error.... and that works both ways.
All authority belongs to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.
S
The post didn't generalize, it simply touched upon the very distinct psychological differences between men and women. For example in multiple studies men have been found to be consistently more conservative than women (and as a result more likely to be content with what they have). So it is not far-fetched to believe that had Satan tempted Adam instead of Eve that Adam would have rejected Satan rather than risk upsetting what he already had.
I've heard openly gay preachers that preached powerfully as well, but that does not make them licit. God can work through whatever person happens to be available, even if that person is not right for the job and shouldn't be in such a position in the first place.
The question of women being ordained belongs firmly in the realm of theology and ecclesiology; so personal "burning in the bosom" feelings as Mormons call it are to be left at the door.
Anyway, yes, your insight is interesting but to put woman in a lower esteem place than man is not right. Yes, man is over woman but man is to FEAR GOD scripture says in being over woman, so, that said, you can be sure a Christ-led man will treat that woman like Joseph did Mary, with fear, reverence, awe, understanding, and, Love her like God would want her Loved.
Don't get me wrong either, there is definite principle in man over woman, scripture is clear of the order of authority, God->man->woman. But to say that women cannot preach because they can be deceived by Satan more, because of Satan deceiving Eve in garden is blindly preaching, and, as feed3m says in his signature, be careful of teaching others things, because WE will be judged more discriminately by God [/QUOTE]
Man and woman BOTH have God's authority to preach, thye PROOF is in the current times, WOMEN PREACH ! And, I've heard them, as I said, they preach powerFULLY, full of mercy and grace. And, women are FULL of peace, too, a quality we men seem to war with constantly
The question of women being ordained belongs firmly in the realm of theology and ecclesiology; so personal "burning in the bosom" feelings as Mormons call it are to be left at the door.
Anyway, yes, your insight is interesting but to put woman in a lower esteem place than man is not right. Yes, man is over woman but man is to FEAR GOD scripture says in being over woman, so, that said, you can be sure a Christ-led man will treat that woman like Joseph did Mary, with fear, reverence, awe, understanding, and, Love her like God would want her Loved.
Don't get me wrong either, there is definite principle in man over woman, scripture is clear of the order of authority, God->man->woman. But to say that women cannot preach because they can be deceived by Satan more, because of Satan deceiving Eve in garden is blindly preaching, and, as feed3m says in his signature, be careful of teaching others things, because WE will be judged more discriminately by God
[/QUOTE]
M
It is amazing to me how many Christians can not accept the word of God. First mistake that Christians make is mixing the old testament with the new. Jesus teaches that you can not mix the old with the new. Galatians 3:28 is speaking of salvation and salvation only. Women standing at the pulpit is against scripture. First God, Second man and third women. There are no if's and's or but's about it. As a minister, I respect women for the great work they do in church, baby sitting, bible study with the youth, pot lucks and so on. I do not believe they are second class citizens they are equal in the world. However, just like a man does not give birth, women do not preach....It's so easy to follow God's word....Cheers
