Works and Salvation

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C

Ciscokid

Guest
#1
#1
The subject of works and salvation has always been a blistering topic in the Christian community. The Christian community declares that “works do not save,” and to bolster their argument they stand on Ephesians 2:9- “Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Ephesians 2:9 is not saying “works do not save.”
Ephesians 2:9 is simply stating that man cannot boast of his own works where salvation is concerned. Therefore to state that “works will not save” is an imprecise statement and misrepresents the correct meaning of Ephesians 2:9.
The scriptures emphatically declare that man is saved by the works of God- i.e. Calvary. So naturally we are saved by works. When we speak of works and salvation we must have a clear understanding of who’s works we’re speaking of. Unfortunately most of the Christian world doesn't seem to be able to tell the differance between the works of man and the works of God.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#2
#2
There is a ton of threads on this already, you are up for a long discussion with eager contestants from both sides :p
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#3
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#3
wwjd_kilden said:
There is a ton of threads on this already, you are up for a long discussion with eager contestants from both sides :p
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lol it'l be a long thread :)

All I can say is, like Paul, my works are as filthy rags. It's a good job my being born again is faith in the work Christ accomplished and applied... ;)
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#4
#4
Our salvation that God offers to us as a free gift cost God everything.
 
B

Bea22

Guest
#5
#5
Ciscokid said:
The subject of works and salvation has always been a blistering topic in the Christian community. The Christian community declares that “works do not save,” and to bolster their argument they stand on Ephesians 2:9- “Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Ephesians 2:9 is not saying “works do not save.”
Ephesians 2:9 is simply stating that man cannot boast of his own works where salvation is concerned. Therefore to state that “works will not save” is an imprecise statement and misrepresents the correct meaning of Ephesians 2:9.
The scriptures emphatically declare that man is saved by the works of God- i.e. Calvary. So naturally we are saved by works. When we speak of works and salvation we must have a clear understanding of who’s works we’re speaking of. Unfortunately most of the Christian world doesn't seem to be able to tell the differance between the works of man and the works of God.
Click to expand...
Can I can clarify what you are saying as being: man's works won't save him; and God's works saves man?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#6
Jul 2, 2011
21,230
6,526
113
#6
Salvation is a gift, there is a stipulation; it must be received. Many folks are incapable of receiving it because they cannot repent. They cannot repent because they believe they do not have need to, and this is sad, however our Father gives all time to repent, and if not, our Father is always fair and good.
Once we receive this free gift, we know it. We know it because we have been convinced by the gifts of faith and the Holy Spirit Who validates our new and true knowledge of the Messiah.
Now, because of the faith and the joy and the love we receive, we will by nature share Yeshua with all and any when the opportunity is given us. It is our new nature.
Your faith will show by your works, and the works are not a burden they are your new nature.
Salvation does not exist without this new nature, therefore without works there is none.

Please do not think this negative, there are all kinds of works, and you are working now. Do you pray? This is works. Do you help others to the Lord? Work! Are you waiting and yearning for the Lord? Work too, and there are many other things we do that are works. You know! Those things that make others wonder what is wrong with you? Why you are content in a world that is dark and scary, and why you simply believe. Work. All works become our nature because of the Love of Yahweh, amen.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#7
#7
Ciscokid said:
The subject of works and salvation has always been a blistering topic in the Christian community. The Christian community declares that “works do not save,” and to bolster their argument they stand on Ephesians 2:9- “Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Ephesians 2:9 is not saying “works do not save.”
Ephesians 2:9 is simply stating that man cannot boast of his own works where salvation is concerned. Therefore to state that “works will not save” is an imprecise statement and misrepresents the correct meaning of Ephesians 2:9.
The scriptures emphatically declare that man is saved by the works of God- i.e. Calvary. So naturally we are saved by works. When we speak of works and salvation we must have a clear understanding of who’s works we’re speaking of. Unfortunately most of the Christian world doesn't seem to be able to tell the differance between the works of man and the works of God.
Click to expand...
I am honestly not sure what your saying here, Are you trying to say we are only saved by the WORK of God, and not of any work we have done, or are you saying we are saved by work we do, but are just not allowed to boast about these works?
 
Digital_Angel_316

Digital_Angel_316

Banned
#8
May 2, 2011
1,134
8
0
#8
Ciscokid said:
The subject of works and salvation has always been a blistering topic in the Christian community. The Christian community declares that “works do not save,” and to bolster their argument they stand on Ephesians 2:9- “Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Ephesians 2:9 is not saying “works do not save.”
Ephesians 2:9 is simply stating that man cannot boast of his own works where salvation is concerned. Therefore to state that “works will not save” is an imprecise statement and misrepresents the correct meaning of Ephesians 2:9.
The scriptures emphatically declare that man is saved by the works of God- i.e. Calvary. So naturally we are saved by works. When we speak of works and salvation we must have a clear understanding of who’s works we’re speaking of. Unfortunately most of the Christian world doesn't seem to be able to tell the differance between the works of man and the works of God.
Click to expand...
How do such christians then address the verse just following, said in the same breath?
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
​
Salvation and works are tied, but only in that the value and right mindset of good works comes after having come to a saving knowledge. "Charity" as we know it today, corporate charity, 501c and such like are examples of works that really are not addressing the saving knowledge part, as they tend to continue to be remedial rather than preventative, often even sublimely promoting the behaviors and mindset that leads to the need for such 'charity'. Thus it is written, man does not live by bread alone ...

Some examples might be housing programs that do not address illegitimacy and excess. Taxing soda to promote health programs, health screening clinics that do not address the lifestyle and diet issues that lead to the diseases screened for, etc.

 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#9
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#9
Ciscokid; ]The subject of works and salvation has always been a blistering topic in the Christian community. The Christian community declares that “works do not save,” and to bolster their argument they stand on Ephesians 2:9- “Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Ephesians 2:9 is not saying “works do not save.”
Ephesians 2:9 is simply stating that man cannot boast of his own works where salvation is concerned. Therefore to state that “works will not save” is an imprecise statement and misrepresents the correct meaning of Ephesians 2:9.
The scriptures emphatically declare that man is saved by the works of God- i.e. Calvary. So naturally we are saved by works. When we speak of works and salvation we must have a clear understanding of who’s works we’re speaking of. Unfortunately most of the Christian world doesn't seem to be able to tell the differance between the works of man and the works of God.
Click to expand...
My understanding of what God is telling us is different, although I agree that God is Holy and does the work of Salvation.

It seems to me that the ideal earthly family is a shadow picture of our heavenly family. We are born into the heavenly family by our faith and God’s grace. How could we make ourselves holy by what we do?

But even after we are in the family of God through our faith and trust in Him, we can make ourselves sinful and refuse to repent. That separates us from our Father, for he is holy and cannot live with sin. Christ died for our sins, we can repent and be cleansed through Christ. I doubt it separates us from being in the family of God unless we lose our faith in Him, but we become like the prodigal son when he was away from home.

I think every word Paul says has to be understood with these basic facts in mind. Some misunderstand to say just listen to the HS and that is all, don’t work, all is fine if we have love, we have a new covenant to wipe out the old, and the whole smear. I think there is truth in all of it, but only when that truth is part of the whole of God, and God is triune. It all fits together into one truth, and if someone finds it is all new they must study harder, look deeper, for they are misunderstanding.
 
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