Cocktail Christians.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

ed12

Guest
#1
Hi Guys,
Scripture deals with this subject but it has only just lately become increasingly apparent how much Christ has been diluted through mixing with other spirits, teachings, traditions practices and cultures. .

Jesus Christ is the way
The narrow path
The Truth
The Word
Scripture

Whatever is added to scripture is a broadening of the narrow path. Jesus confirms scripture. Going outside scripture is fraught with danger.

I left the church I was attending because the deacons condoned a teaching on mindfulness, teaching breathing to heal depression etc. I believe they were leading the congregation to allow another spirit to enter.
From here, I then examined Christmas now Easter.

What departure from scripture do you see where you attend services?
Do you believe that Scripture is the Word of God and the Word of God is God's Son, Jesus Christ who is the narrow way?
My pastor then used non-scripture writings to defend his position.
Thoughts, scripture please.
love in Jesus
ed12
 
E

ed12

Guest
#2
Hi Guys,
Scripture deals with this subject but it has only just lately become increasingly apparent how much Christ has been diluted through mixing with other spirits, teachings, traditions practices and cultures. .

Jesus Christ is the way
The narrow path
The Truth
The Word
Scripture

Whatever is added to scripture is a broadening of the narrow path. Jesus confirms scripture. Going outside scripture is fraught with danger.

I left the church I was attending because the deacons condoned a teaching on mindfulness, teaching breathing to heal depression etc. I believe they were leading the congregation to allow another spirit to enter.
From here, I then examined Christmas now Easter.

What departure from scripture do you see where you attend services?
Do you believe that Scripture is the Word of God and the Word of God is God's Son, Jesus Christ who is the narrow way?
My pastor then used non-scripture writings to defend his position.
Thoughts, scripture please.
love in Jesus
ed12
Hi Guys,
Does the above post reflect scripture?
love in Jesus
ed12
 
D

drdeb57

Guest
#3
The Bible is the only truth as far as I'm concerned the world is trying to destroy It, only one God!
 
E

ed12

Guest
#4
The Bible is the only truth as far as I'm concerned the world is trying to destroy It, only one God!
Hi drdeb57,
Thanks for joining in. A poster after my own heart. Outside of scripture is outside the Word. The Word is totally sufficient.
Why do people want something extra. There does seem to be a worldly thirst to gain knowledge which leads people into the temptation of being "puffed up". Possibly there is also the "fear" factor where one can sit in their comfort zone and gain knowledge whilst growing in love requires 'self sacrifice".

love in Jesus
ed12
 
E

ed12

Guest
#5
Hi Guys,
Who does one fear more, God, or society? Have you had to choose? What was the cost, the reward?
love in Jesus
ed12
 
M

MaxineR

Guest
#6
Hi Guys,

I left the church I was attending because the deacons condoned a teaching on mindfulness, teaching breathing to heal depression etc. I believe they were leading the congregation to allow another spirit to enter.

ed12
There is nothing wrong with practicing mindfulness and breathing. They can actually help people to relax, thus reducing depression and anxiety. Why would you think they will allow another spirit to enter?
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#7
There is nothing wrong with practicing mindfulness and breathing. They can actually help people to relax, thus reducing depression and anxiety. Why would you think they will allow another spirit to enter?
I would worry about such a thing too. One has to exercise caution.
1 John 4:1- Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
 
F

feedm3

Guest
#8
This got me thinking, it's a bit lengthy, but worth the read, many points you may not have ever thought about:

Identifying the Church of the New Testament


By Wayne Jackson
The following material is the transcription of a lecture presented to a group of interested Bible students a few months back. The style is, therefore, more “spoken” than “written.” It is not burdened with technical argument or documentation.

Several months ago, the nation’s news programs were dominated by the story concerning the young woman from California who worked as a congressional aide, and who mysteriously disappeared. Over and over again, her physical description was published — height, hair color, eye color, and distinguishing characteristics. By virtue of that detailed description, there was hope that if someone should see her, she could be identified and brought home to her worried family.
Every day in our lives we encounter occasions in which we have to identify certain objects. If we go to the supermarket to shop, and we return to the parking lot, we have to identify the particular vehicle that belongs to us. If a mother’s child becomes separated from her in a large crowd, she can provide an identifying description to those who may be able to locate that child.
Perhaps the most important application of that principle is this: Is it essential that we be able to identify the church of the New Testament — the one that God planned, and the one that Jesus purchased by the shedding of his blood? Is it important that one be able to identify that spiritual body? Can it be found in today’s world?
Tragically, many sincere religious people operate on the premise that it really doesn’t make any difference what church one belongs to, so long as it is under the general umbrella of “Christendom.” But is that a valid premise upon which to operate?
If the church is something important in the mind of God — and it is, the Bible indicates it was a part of the divine plan from eternity (Eph. 3:10-11), and because Christ shed his blood to buy it (Acts 20:28) — then surely it is important enough to need appropriate identification. One doesn’t just flip through the yellow pages of the telephone book, or he doesn’t just drive up and down the shady lanes of our communities, looking for a commodious church. Rather, the conscientious person wants to know, intellectually and biblically: “What is the church of the Bible? Where is it? Am I a member of it, or am I not?”
Let me give you another illustration, which I think will help put this matter into focus. Suppose one is asked to identify a mammal. What is a mammal? Well, you might consult several dictionaries. You might look at a more general dictionary, or you might want to reference a science dictionary. The definitions will be the same generally, with perhaps with a greater degree of detail in the scientific work.
Here is an abbreviated definition of a mammal. A mammal is a creature characterized by certain traits. It has hair. It is warm-blooded. And mammals nurse their young. The English word “mammal” derives from a Latin word, mamma, which is the term for breast, having to do with the suckling of the offspring.
A dog is a mammal. A dog has hair, is warm-blooded, and suckles its young. A cat is a mammal. Human beings are mammals — according to this definition. A whale is a mammal, having all three of these characteristics. But a bird is not a mammal. Though a bird is warm-blooded, it does not have hair, and it does not nurse its young. A caterpillar is not a mammal. A caterpillar has hair, but does not nurse its young. A mammal has all the previously mentioned traits.
Here is the point of the analogy. There are many churches in our community which have some of the traits of the New Testament church. But just as a mammal is not a mammal unless it has all of the qualities that are mammalian, just so, a church is not the church of the Bible unless it consists of folks who have done precisely what God requires in becoming a Christian.
Moreover, to have Heaven’s sustained approval, a group of Christians must attempt to conform to those particular qualities that characterized the church as it functioned under the guiding hand of the inspired leaders of the first century.
Obviously, we don’t have the time to develop this theme at great length in this limited presentation, but let us at least survey the matter briefly. I want you to think very seriously; I want you to look into your heart, look into your life, look into your personal history, your experiences — and answer this question: “Am I a member of Christ’s church? Or am I simply a member of a church?”When Was the Church Established?
First of all, I would raise this issue. When was the church of Christ established? It was established 50 days after the death of Jesus. The record of this is found in the second chapter of the book of Acts. The time is specifically identified as the day of Pentecost. The power of the Holy Spirit was poured out supernaturally upon the apostles, and for the very first time in all of history, they began to proclaim the basic facts of the gospel message, namely that:

  1. Jesus had been crucified for the sins of humanity,
  2. He had been buried in a tomb.
  3. But on the third day, he arose from that tomb, and then, forty days later, ascended back into heaven to be at the right hand of God.
Peter, the leading spokesman on that occasion, suggested that those who were assembled in the city, the Jews, were responsible for having put Christ to death and, therefore, they were guilty of sin. He said to them:
“Repent and be baptized, every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38).
Luke, the writer who recorded the events, said they who gladly received Peter’s words were baptized, and there were added together, that day, about 3,000 people.
From that time on, in the book of Acts, we read that the church is in existence. Prior to that time, all references to the church are in the future tense. Jesus, for example, had said in Matthew 16:18, “I will build my church.” That was about six months before he died. But from Acts 2 onward, the church is in existence.
And so, we conclude that the church was established at that time. The year is approximately A.D. 30. The day was Sunday. The method by which they constituted the church was submission to the gospel message. Those who attempt to become Christians in any other fashion are not members of Christ’s spiritual body.
Now, what about the church of which you are a member? Was your church established in the city of Rome, several centuries after the New Testament was completed? Was your church set up in London, in the 1600’s or 1700’s? If so, it is not the church of the New Testament. The church of Jesus Christ traces its origin to the events recorded in Acts 2 — twenty centuries ago.

What About Organization?

First, Christ is the head of the church. He is “the head of the body, the church” (Col 1:18). The church of the New Testament had no earthly head — some person allegedly governing by the authority of Christ. Rather, Jesus is the only head of the church (Eph. 1:22-23).
Second, in New Testament times, within local congregations, there were men known as elders. They were also called shepherds, pastors, or bishops (Acts 20:17,28; 1 Tim. 3:1ff; Tit. 1:5ff). They supervised the expediency elements of the local congregation.
There was no such thing, in the first century, as a bishop who presided over a number of churches. There was no such officer, in the first century, as a cardinal over churches of the various nations. There was no such creature, in Bible times, as the Papa, the Pope, of all churches. Rather, congregations were organized on a local level, with a plurality of men (the elders), who guided them in matters of human judgment (Heb. 13:17).
Does your church have a single pastor with a board of deacons that governs the local congregation? If so, you are in a church that is not organized after the Bible pattern. Is your church subject to a “bishop” who exercises authority over a conglomerate of congregations? There is a fundamental flaw in that system.

What About Worship?

Then there is the matter of worship. What is the worship procedure in the church of which you are a member? A survey of the New Testament record reveals that several different acts were engaged in whenever the church met on the Lord’s day to worship God.

The Lord’s Supper

We are told, for example, that the early Christians assembled themselves together on the first day of the week — and every Lord’s day (see1 Cor. 16:2 — NASB) — for the purpose of partaking of the communion Supper. This involved eating the bread and drinking the fruit of the vine (Mt. 26:26ff; Acts 20:7).
This is what Jesus himself had commissioned on that evening when he celebrated the Passover and then, subsequent to that feast, instituted the Lord’s Supper. He took bread, broke it, and said, “eat this in memory of my body.” He gave them a cup of the fruit of the vine, and said, “divide this among yourselves and drink it, this is [i.e., represents] my blood.”
Is that what your church family does? Does it meet each Lord’s day for the purpose of observing the communion? Or are you identified with a group that observes the Lord’s Supper quarterly, or semi-annually, or even only yearly? Or perhaps at some other random time? If so, I must tell you with compassion and kindness, that such does not conform to the biblical pattern relative to the observance of the communion.

Prayer

The Lord taught his disciples to pray to God, i.e., to deity (cf. Matt. 6:5ff). After his ascension, they continued in this practice of speaking only to the Lord (Acts 2:42).
Does your church offer prayers to those other than God, such as idols, or to Mary, or “the saints”? If so, those prayers are ineffective. Christ’s church prays as he instructed.

Preaching the Word

On the Lord’s Day, there was also the practice of preaching the word of God. In Acts 20:7ff, when the disciples came together on the first day of the week, Paul also taught the brethren, and continued his communication for a considerable time (cf. Acts 2:42).

Singing

In addition to the teaching program, the early church engaged in singing as a form of worship. Ephesians 5:19 underscores the corporate nature of the musical portion of church worship (cf. Col. 3:16). The inspired apostle wrote these words: “Speaking one to another in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your hearts unto the Lord.” Singing is an expression of praise in which every Christian within the congregation should engage.
Does the church with which you are identified come together, and, in addition to singing, have musical accompaniment with humanly manufactured instruments? Such a practice is unknown to the New Testament record.
“Oh,” but someone objects, “musical instruments are mentioned in the Old Testament!” Yes, they are, but the Old Testament reflected a very elementary scheme of things, a carnal system (see Heb. 9:10). The Old Testament contained the offerings of bloody sacrifices. The Old Testament had the burning of incense. The Old Testament had a physical, tribal priesthood through whom the rank and file of the people approached God. But that carnal system was laid aside, as the writer of Hebrews argues, in chapter nine of that document. The Old Testament regime was superseded by a spiritual system.
Here is a point that is without controversy, historically speaking. Churches identified with Christianity never used instruments of music in their worship for at least six hundred years after the establishment of the church. Instruments were introduced only when certain sects were significantly down the road of apostasy, digressing from the pristine New Testament plan.

Giving

The early church, on the first day of every week, contributed into the common congregational treasury, that the Lord’s work might be expediently financed (1 Cor. 16:1-2). The modern practice of engaging in business enterprises to underwrite the work of the church was not a part of the original pattern of church economics.
So it was, then, that the primitive church observed the Lord’s Supper, prayer, singing, teaching, and the weekly contribution.
Does the church of which you are a member practice these items — as per the New Testament pattern? If not, then it does not conform to the New Testament mold; it does not fit the ideal of the early church, as such existed under the supervision of the apostles of Christ.
Don’t you want to be affiliated with the church of the Bible? Is it not possible today to be a part of the original church without any affiliation with a church organism that has adopted merely some of the elements of Christianity?

Does a Name Matter?

What was the first century church called? How were the early disciples designated?
There were several appellations employed to describe the first-century believers, e.g., disciples, saints, brethren, etc. But beginning in Acts 11, the early disciples were formally called Christians — first at Antioch of Syria (Acts 11:26; cf. 26:28; 1 Pet. 4:16).
And interestingly enough, the word “called” in Acts 11:26 is a very special word that has to do only with a divine sort of calling. It is a calling that issues from God as its source. They were divinely called “Christians.”
Why would men set aside that name, and designate themselves by human heroes (e.g., Lutheran)? Or name themselves after some form of organization, (e.g., Presbyterian)? Or adopt titles according to some individual point of doctrine they espouse, (e.g., Baptist)? There is no scriptural basis for this common practice.
Tell me please, why are those who profess allegiance to Jesus Christ dissatisfied with simply wearing the name “Christian”? Why are they not known as just “churches of Christ” (Rom. 16:16) or “churches of God” (1 Cor. 1:2) — either appellation being entirely scriptural. There is no solitary, exclusive name for the church. But whatever you call it, you need to call it what it is, and not what it is not.
The church is not a Pentecostal church just because it was established on the day of Pentecost. The church is not a Baptist church just because it advocates baptism. The church is not a Congregational church just because it is organized congregationally. The church is the church of God (1 Cor. 1:2), because God planned it.
Congregations are the churches of Christ (Rom. 16:16), because Christ gave his life in order to bring them into existence. The New Testament indicates that we ought to speak as the oracles of God (1 Pet. 4:11), which means we ought to express biblical concepts with biblical terms whenever possible.


 
E

ed12

Guest
#9
There is nothing wrong with practicing mindfulness and breathing. They can actually help people to relax, thus reducing depression and anxiety. Why would you think they will allow another spirit to enter?
Hi Maxine,
Thank you very much for joining in. I do appreciate your post. I agree it "seems" like a good thing but I ask you to find a mature Christian to assist you and look into the issue. All these Asian breathing exercises involve spiritual activity. Please do not read this literature without guidance. Spirits are attached and you will be in danger of allowing a spirit other than Christ to enter. I have no idea how one would then get rid of such spirit. Jesus gives you free will. These are dangerous times and becoming more so as spiritual activity increases. Guard yourself. Please do not accept anything except scripture. Maybe it would do many of us well to type up such a caution and post it to a cupboard door. Especially slightly twisted scripture. Twisted scripture is often the first small step away from Jesus. Once a few small steps have been taken then our pride steps in to keep us moving away.
please be careful.
love in Jesus
ed
 
M

MaxineR

Guest
#10
Especially slightly twisted scripture. Twisted scripture is often the first small step away from Jesus. Once a few small steps have been taken then our pride steps in to keep us moving away.
That was just an opinion, not that I'm practicing it. Anyway, thanks for your advice. We should really guard ourselves from slightly twisted scripture as they are not easily detected.
 
G

greatblue

Guest
#11
I left the church I was attending because the deacons condoned a teaching on mindfulness, teaching breathing to heal depression etc. I believe they were leading the congregation to allow another spirit to enter.
From here, I then examined Christmas now Easter.
Hey Ed - I was just in Australia and visited a few churches and I was a bit flattened by those I visited, including my old church from a decade ago. For starters, I saw pastors using the message bible in their sermons. That is a "check please" moment. But then they weren't even sermons, but more stories and laughs and...well, I don't know what it all was. But after my wife and I discussed why people remain in these churches...are they not discerning that things are going amiss? Like you, I see the world entering the church more now than ever before and it is due to this whole new age and seeker movement.

I don't see any point to contend with Christmas and Easter as they are moot points with little consequence. Old enemies let's say. But our enemy of today is what leaders and teachers are allowing themselves to entertain. For you it was some new age/asian breathing. For me it was the message bible, a new age movement bible that fully perverts God's word. Yet like your experience, there are pastors using it in church? So then where is their discernment?
 
Last edited:
G

greatblue

Guest
#13
I was shown this today by a sister in Christ. I want to share it here.

A Call to Anguish - David Wilkerson - YouTube
The full sermon is outstanding. You can get it on sermonindex as an app, or I believe online as well.

This is not really the post for it, but I always get chills when I think about Wilkerson's accident. Benny Hinn had made these crazy curse claims on anyone who would speak against his ministry and his annointing. Wilkerson did. In my own feeble imagination I wondered if God called David home in part to condemn Hinn for his curse. I mean...one I see as a devout dedicated man of God; the other a charlitan.
 
Last edited:

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
#14
I was shown this today by a sister in Christ. I want to share it here.

A Call to Anguish - David Wilkerson - YouTube
Such a wonderful man of God. It's a shame he died last year :(

Did you know he was the pastor that led Nicky Cruz and many gangs to Christ. This is the movie based on that true story....

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XDW1ZPah8s[/video]
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
#15
Benny Hinn had made these crazy curse claims on anyone who would speak against his ministry and his annointing
Hinn's voice is creepy!

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN8y5o272zo[/video]
 
G

greatblue

Guest
#16
This video is very appropriate to this thread now. David Wilkerson Exposes Benny Him - YouTube


"And yet you sit there. And say it looks good, it sounds good...and you are being fornicated with."

The call for discernment is so great in these days. May we hold only to the simplicity of Jesus Christ, as He is all we need. Not asian breathing, not false bibles, not cursing "healers".
 
Mar 18, 2011
2,540
22
0
#17
Hi Guys,
Who does one fear more, God, or society? Have you had to choose? What was the cost, the reward?
love in Jesus
ed12
I am a God fearing man.

God has blessed me with so much and the idea of squandering my calling away scares me. Society disgusts me because I see satans influence all over it. I have no fear of the world. Not that long ago I needed to go to the store and the only shirt I had available was a Calvin Klein t shirt. I put it on and brushed my teeth, but standing in the mirror I saw Calvin Klein's name across my chest over my front pocket. I felt like I was representing money and wealth and it bothered me. So taking a blue permanent marker I quickly drew a cross over the name that looked like this
......-( )- <- that is a sun with ray's :)
...J E S U S <--- had said Calvin Klein.
.......A
.......V
.......E
.......S

it is important to me that nobody in the world ever has any doubts about my allegiance to God.
I do not worship money or the idols of this world. I am bold so that others might also feel comfortable being bold in their faith.

The cost?

Some friends and family want to live in their sinful ways, and they don't want to see or hear my reactions to what they watch or listen to. They don't want to hear my testimonies or my concerns as it makes them reflect upon the life they lead. and when I don't say anything because I know they already know how I feel, it bothers them anyway. So some of them avoid spending too much time with me.

But the rewards far outweigh the Cost. I have played a crucial role in many peoples spiritual lives. Some strangers that God has guided me too found a new thirst for Christ, a little oomph to their faith and new hope for their day. Some of my family members slowly began to understand the Word and how the world actually works and I pray hard that those seeds fully grow into giant trees of faith one day.

I have also seen the blessings come full circle. I was struggling during a great trial in my life and an old friend boldly came up to me. He said " It's hard to see you like this brother, don't you know that it was talking to you all of those nights at the pond that brought me to Jesus in the first place?". - Praise God, I'd had no idea, and now here he was helping me back on track.

We never know what stranger is willing to talk about Jesus, until we open that door. carrying a bible around is a great way to get someone to break the ice by making a comment or asking a question. It's also a great way to stay in the Spirit as we navigate the treacherous waters of the world. I ride city buses every now and again and I take the bible wherever I go. Multiple people in just one day will break the ice about what I'm reading and then we have a captive audience in the surrounding passengers. I've seen great things happen when we aren't afraid to wear Christ on our sleeves.
 
Last edited:
T

TheGrungeDiva

Guest
#18
There is nothing wrong with practicing mindfulness and breathing. They can actually help people to relax, thus reducing depression and anxiety. Why would you think they will allow another spirit to enter?
Holy buckets. Now BREATHING is sinful? Oy!
 
T

TheGrungeDiva

Guest
#19
For me it was the message bible, a new age movement bible that fully perverts God's word.
Do you understand what the author of "The Message" was trying to do?

"The Message" is not a translation of the Bible, but a paraphrase. It is the author's attempt to bring the stories from the Bible into a modern light. It is no different than the thousands of short stories and novels that use a "Christ figure" as a central theme, a salvation theme through an innocent victim who saves the world. Such authors are not trying to say "Oh, this is how it really happened." They're saying, "What an amazing story. I'm going to re-tell that story in a different way, as fiction instead of the history that it is presented as in Scripture.

"The Message" is not completely unique in using the exact same format as the Bible, retelling the various stories in the same order, going verse by verse rather than just borrowing themes. It's no more a stray from the original Greek and Hebrew texts than the Living Bible, who has the audacity to claim it's a translation, even though its author really just made it up, just like Peterson made up "The Message," only Peterson is honest about his fiction.

"Stranger in a Strange Land" "Jesus of Montreal" "Lamb: the Gospel of Jesus according to Biff, his childhood friend." There are thousands of books, plays, and films out there which have taken the basic Bible narrative and re-told it in a new, different way. Some are complete fabrications, with only the central themes remaining the same, and some are pretty close to the original.

There is no sin in re-telling a story and giving your own spin on it, as long as you're honest about it. As long as you say, "Hey, this is a fictional version of the Christ story. I'm not intending to be literal, here, I'm purposely being figurative."

The Bible isn't the only book that gets such treatment. Think of "West Side Story," a re-telling of "Romeo and Juliet." Think of "Rent" as the 21st Century version of La Boheme. Heck, "National Lampoon's Vacation" is just a comedic version of "The Grapes of Wrath." (Dang, but I was the only one in the theater who got THAT joke.)

I have found reading The Message to be highly inspirational. It allows me to hear these words in a new, refreshing way. I mean, I've heard and read the Bible so often, sometimes I don't really "listen" to it; it becomes like rote, reciting things that don't really make sense. Listening to something that is completely different makes me sit up and take notice. I hear the new words, and it reminds me of the original, only I don't just "remember" the original, the meaning of the original comes alive for me in a new way.

Now, if you don't care for The Message, I understand. Different strokes for different folks. It just doesn't inspire you like it does for so many Christians.

But to insult the author, and belittle this important work, accusing it of being a "perversion"? That's just rude and uncalled for.
 
S

simplyme_bekah

Guest
#20
I would say that was the Holy Spirit telling you to move and move now. I had that happen once to me. When the Holy Spirit tells you something that makes you feel urgent the best thing to do is obey. My best friend had rented that movie about the serial killer that had the cult of women and he referred to himself as a God. As soon as it began I had this sudden knowledge that I was not to watch that movie. This feeling was so strong that I could not make myself sit there and watch it I had to get up and get up right then. So that could be the Holy Spirit telling you to run as fast and as far from that church as you can. If I was you I'd ask him in prayer. He will reveal the truth to your heart.