Noah's alternative response to grace

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feedm3

Guest
#1
#1
What if Noah would have believed the same thing many are teaching here?

Gen Chapter 6:

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast,
and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord


13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch

Vs. ?? And Noah said, "not so Lord, for I have found grace in thy sight. If I build the ark, that takes work, and we cannot be saved by works, otherwise your grace would not be a gift. So YOU must build the ark for me, and then place me in the ark, because even me walking to it would be working as well."


WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO NOAH? HERES WHAT I THINK:

Vs ?? And it came to pass.....Noah drowned in the water and died----the end.

Noah would have "received the grace of God in vain" - Can this still be done today? Of Course, otherwise their is no reason in Paul's warning to the Corinthians and us:

II Cor 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain

Sound's silly, It would have been foolish for Noah to answer God grace with this kind of response. It's still just a foolish to answer Christ in the same manner. Just something to think about.

Yet Noah was saved because of God's grace+his obedience to it:

22 Thus did Noah; according to ALL that God commanded him, so did he

 So was he deserving of God's grace because he obeyed him? Nope, that's why it's still grace, unmerited favor, yet disobedience disqualifies - Heb 5:9; II Cor 6:1.

For those who try and say we cant compare Noah's physical salvation, with our spiritual salvation, I say why not? Peter did. So there must be a lesson here that's deeper than what appears concerning the flood - see I Pet 3:19-f.
 
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C

Crossfire

Guest
#2
#2
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NIV):"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

Scripture is clear, while good works can not produce salvation, saving faith does produce good works. A person can have good works and not be saved however, a person can not be saved without good works seeing as good works are the fruit (evidence, result) of saving faith.
 
S

starfield

Senior Member
#3
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#3
feedm3 said:
What if Noah would have believed the same thing many are teaching here?

Gen Chapter 6:

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast,
and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord


13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch

Vs. ?? And Noah said, "not so Lord, for I have found grace in thy sight. If I build the ark, that takes work, and we cannot be saved by works, otherwise your grace would not be a gift. So YOU must build the ark for me, and then place me in the ark, because even me walking to it would be working as well."


WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO NOAH? HERES WHAT I THINK:

Vs ?? And it came to pass.....Noah drowned in the water and died----the end.

Noah would have "received the grace of God in vain" - Can this still be done today? Of Course, otherwise their is no reason in Paul's warning to the Corinthians and us:

II Cor 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain

Sound's silly, It would have been foolish for Noah to answer God grace with this kind of response. It's still just a foolish to answer Christ in the same manner. Just something to think about.

Yet Noah was saved because of God's grace+his obedience to it:

22 Thus did Noah; according to ALL that God commanded him, so did he

 So was he deserving of God's grace because he obeyed him? Nope, that's why it's still grace, unmerited favor, yet disobedience disqualifies - Heb 5:9; II Cor 6:1.

For those who try and say we cant compare Noah's physical salvation, with our spiritual salvation, I say why not? Peter did. So there must be a lesson here that's deeper than what appears concerning the flood - see I Pet 3:19-f.
Click to expand...
Excellent comparison of Noah's salvation with the spiritual salvation! I've never seen it from this perspective but it does make perfect sense. Obedience shows that a believer has faith and is not taking the grace of God in vain.
 
F

feedm3

Guest
#4
#4
Crossfire said:
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NIV):"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

Scripture is clear, while good works can not produce salvation, saving faith does produce good works. A person can have good works and not be saved however, a person can not be saved without good works seeing as good works are the fruit (evidence, result) of saving faith.
Click to expand...
Thanks Crossfire for the explanation. Though there is a flaw in it. This statement is leads to a paradox.

How can one say "your NOT saved by works, but if you dont do them your not saved"?

That implies that one who believes in Christ MUST have works in order to be saved. Because if he did not, then he would not be saved, so works would be absolutely essential to salvation if this is true.

Now, I am not sure how you define "works" as the Bible speaks of them with 3 different meanings.

I see works as deeds. And Eph 2 is telling the Christians they did not do any good deed that made them so righteous that God decided to send his son. That is the ONLY point in Eph.

Yet when obedience comes into play here, that is not a work, as in a deed, it is a duty.

Obedience is essential to salvation because the Bible tells us Jesus is only going to save those who obey him.
Heb 5:9 and being made perfect he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

 The implication here is plain - he is not the author of salvation to those who disobey him, and of course that includes the Christians, as this was written to Christians.

Many passages warn of the fate of the disobedient.
Luk 12:43-46. The Disobedient servant, who when his Lord returned received the same punishment as the unbelievers - why? and what would that punishment be?

Also, the prodigal son, who left his father to live in sin - Luke 15:24 states this son's condition while living in sin was "dead", it says upon his return (repentance) for my son was dead and is now alive.

So obedience is the duty of all men, and all Christians who have even more reason to carry out their duty:

 ECC 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man

Luke 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do
 
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