Saved at birth

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onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,115
24
38
#21
Onlinebuddy, I cannot say I was saved at birth, I only know that I have loved and looked to Jesus from my earlyest memories.
So the term saved at birth, I agree should not used in this way.
But one must also consider if a child belongs to God in Jesus at birth, not by their own recognition, but by His mercy.
But do not discount the love a child can have for Jesus even though very young, for we are called by Gods love, He has called us all with His everlasting love.
The thing is, in the grand greatness of all that is given to us in Jesus Christ is Lord, the when is not what matters or is mesured.
What matters is we do recieve Him, and love Him, dying with Him and living in His spirit.
For salvation is not of mesure, but eternal and for all who believe on Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh. :)

God bless
pickles
Pickles,
I loved reading about your childhood interactions with Jesus.
I agree that a child- who is not in a position to choose or reject God, and who cannot repent on his own volition- will never be condemned by God.
However, I am not asking if a child is saved or not!

My question is simply: Can we say that we are saved at birth?
You have said that we should not say that we are saved at birth, and I agree with you.
However, there are too many people on CC who write that they are saved at birth or at creation.
You yourself have mentioned that you were saved "all my life." That kind of baffles me.
I'm sure you have a good reason for believing this, but I would like to know your ideology, if you don't mind.
Blessings!
 

onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,115
24
38
#25
It all depends on what or how they say they knew Jesus.
I have known Jesus since my earlyest memories, while still in diapers, and commited my life at different stages of growth, according to what Jesus asked of me.
When one recives Jesus is not the value, what matters is they did! :)
Scripture does speak to that some began the work at the beginning of the day, some in the middle, some near the end.
But the pay was the same for all. :)
For how does one mesure out salvation, eternal life, when the gift is beyond mesure. :)
Thankyou Lord Jesus for your gift, and thankyou for calling us all with your love!

God bless
pickles
Sure! The time when one accepts Jesus does not matter at all. Also, I agree that the reward of eternal life is the same for all, and beyond measure.
Nevertheless, how an we say, "at birth?"
Can one receive Jesus at birth?
 

onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,115
24
38
#26
It all depends on what or how they say they knew Jesus.
I have known Jesus since my earlyest memories, while still in diapers, and commited my life at different stages of growth, according to what Jesus asked of me.
When one recives Jesus is not the value, what matters is they did! :)
Scripture does speak to that some began the work at the beginning of the day, some in the middle, some near the end.
But the pay was the same for all. :)
For how does one mesure out salvation, eternal life, when the gift is beyond mesure. :)
Thankyou Lord Jesus for your gift, and thankyou for calling us all with your love!

God bless
pickles
Sure! The time when one accepts Jesus does not matter at all. Also, I agree that the reward of eternal life is the same for all, and beyond measure.
Nevertheless, how an we say, "at birth?"
Can one receive Jesus at birth?
 
Sep 7, 2012
532
0
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#27
Lest we forget that Christian behavior is easily imitated and so it is hard to know if another person is Christian or not. Real Christianity is not something so easily seen and pointing out the "things that we do as evidence" is not a valid means test. Even a 100% attendance record really says nothing at all about it.
 

onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,115
24
38
#28
Lest we forget that Christian behavior is easily imitated and so it is hard to know if another person is Christian or not. Real Christianity is not something so easily seen and pointing out the "things that we do as evidence" is not a valid means test. Even a 100% attendance record really says nothing at all about it.
Agree Celeste, and thanks for your comment.
What would you answer be to my initial question? Can one say that one is saved at birth?
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
#29
When I come across that in a profile I take it to mean the person is a Catholic. Catholics believe they are saved the moment they are baptized in water as a baby.

My cousin was in a panic to get her baby baptized because she truly believed he would go to hell if anything happened to him. Lol :)
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#30
Actually, we are all kinda 'saved at birth'. God doesn't generally hold us accountable on something until we decide we're smart enough to form a position on it. He says we are born innocent (really, a 2 month old has no idea what's going on at that Baptismal) and we remain that way until we think we know enough to decide on Him. Problem is, we live in a fallen world whose ruling interests include making sure we decide against God as early as possible. So we are in some way born saved, it's just up to us to make sure we stay that way by accepting Jesus's sacrafice after being made aware of it.
I already told this story in another post but it applies here also.
Years ago I was watching a video of Jesse Duplantis talking about the time he went to heaven. I was judging the truth of his words based upon my very limited knowledge of God’s Word. Mr. Duplantis said that every baby that is aborted or dies goes to heaven, and he said this because he saw many children there, mostly Orientals. When he said this, my thoughts immediately went to John 3:3, then I said thought myself, that man is lying because God’s word says, Except a person be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. This is how I interpreted the scripture at that time. I no sooner finished those words within myself when I heard very clearly and very loud, a stern voice yelling at me with anger. I heard basically the same words Kenneth Copeland heard, which was, “YOU WATCH WHO YOU CALL A LIAR!!!” After that He quoted the scripture, Joh_3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, and pointed out to me the word “man”, not babies or children. God does not hold them accountable for their actions. As for me, I say babies and children, if they were to die, go to heaven.:)
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
#31
God does not hold them accountable for their actions. As for me, I say babies and children, if they were to die, go to heaven.:)[/FONT]
God has likened many Jewish customs/traditions to future events. Like the bride of Christ is likened to a Jewish wedding, down to the return of the groom, preparing a place for us in His Father's home, the wedding feast in Heaven, etc. The feasts represent certain prophecies being fulfilled gradually over time. Next one to come is the Feast of trumpets (I believe this is the rapture and the trumpets blow in Jewish weddings when the marriage is about to take place!!!!!!!!! :)).

Now here's an interesting one... the Jewish Bar Mitzvah is the 'coming of age' celebration, making it age 13 for a boy and age 12 for a girl. I believe this is the age of accountability in God's eyes :)

My mother had a miscarriage many years ago. I will see my other sibling for the first time in Heaven :)
 
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Powemm

Guest
#32
God has called all of us out from eternal darkness to these current vessels (bodies), So "He " can work sin
Out and put His son back in.. He has called all of us and not one is righteous , no not one .. We are all in the process of refinement and being purified.. We must be careful not to cast our eyes upon anything or anyone that can take our focus and drag us off, or come to the conclusion of who has a better opinion. for Sin is crouching at the door. if he can capture our attention he can drag us off .. We must stand sober minded casting all cares upon the Lord. I see someone in their " refining process" and say " but by the grace of God , there go I"
Our salvation was won the day Jesus died.. Which was before you or I were ever born.. this has been done for everyone of us.. We can't undo what Christ has already done.. It was finished a long time ago.. I stand by what my profile Says .."saved before I was ever born" I was saved the very second Jesus died, I just didn't know it..that's what He says not what I say.. I'm not going to be arrogant enough to go against what God says He already did for me.. for us all, a very long time ago.. My
profile will stand as is... It supports what "God said He already did for me". And he also said He would wait for me until I believed Him.. And I do! :). Love you guys I'm so glad we are able to come together and talk about this .. It's really great!!
 
P

Powemm

Guest
#33
Online buddy--- I love your post!! " I don't know I'm about three weeks old on Cc".

I'll be the first to say I'm an absolute toddler holding onto my Heavenly Fathers leg.. I'm still learning to balance my whole wobble out. :)
 

onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,115
24
38
#34
I already told this story in another post but it applies here also.
Years ago I was watching a video of Jesse Duplantis talking about the time he went to heaven. I was judging the truth of his words based upon my very limited knowledge of God’s Word. Mr. Duplantis said that every baby that is aborted or dies goes to heaven, and he said this because he saw many children there, mostly Orientals. When he said this, my thoughts immediately went to John 3:3, then I said thought myself, that man is lying because God’s word says, Except a person be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. This is how I interpreted the scripture at that time. I no sooner finished those words within myself when I heard very clearly and very loud, a stern voice yelling at me with anger. I heard basically the same words Kenneth Copeland heard, which was, “YOU WATCH WHO YOU CALL A LIAR!!!” After that He quoted the scripture, Joh_3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, and pointed out to me the word “man”, not babies or children. God does not hold them accountable for their actions. As for me, I say babies and children, if they were to die, go to heaven.:)
Know1,
Thanks for pointing this out. Although I never listen to TV evangelists, this time they were right:)
 

onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,115
24
38
#35
When I come across that in a profile I take it to mean the person is a Catholic. Catholics believe they are saved the moment they are baptized in water as a baby.

My cousin was in a panic to get her baby baptized because she truly believed he would go to hell if anything happened to him. Lol :)
I know. Even a baptized child who may not survive is given the last rites by a priest.

Yes, catholics believe that they are saved at child baptism.
Calvinists and Arminianists believe that they were saved before birth. However, they are referring to Christ's redemptive work, and not to their decision to follow him.

 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#36
Pickles,
I loved reading about your childhood interactions with Jesus.
I agree that a child- who is not in a position to choose or reject God, and who cannot repent on his own volition- will never be condemned by God.
However, I am not asking if a child is saved or not!

My question is simply: Can we say that we are saved at birth?
You have said that we should not say that we are saved at birth, and I agree with you.
However, there are too many people on CC who write that they are saved at birth or at creation.
You yourself have mentioned that you were saved "all my life." That kind of baffles me.
I'm sure you have a good reason for believing this, but I would like to know your ideology, if you don't mind.
Blessings!
I said I was saved all my life simply because if Jesus had not been with me, I would have been lost.
Jesus saved me from myself, keeping my heart from bitterness, dispair, self hate, and hating others.
I heard His voice so young, helping me through the abuse of my father and the bullying of others, and other tragic events that were my life when young.
I know if Jesus had not been with me, I would have perished in my own flesh, filled with hatred of life others and what I went through.
in stead, Jesus was and is always presant, He comforted me, taught me to see past the flesh of others, and helped me to see all and forgive with compassion and His love.
I do believe Jesus was with me because without Him, I would have been lost.
I knew His love and sought Him because of it, and continued to as I grew.
But none was what I did, but what Jesus did for me and in me, that is why I said I was and still continue to be saved by Jesus, because with out Him, I would have been lost to my flesh and a bitter hate.
The beginning was as with all innocents, the rest was because of His mercy.
The fruit of His love, was my desire to love Him in return, and live as He asked me to, not by my own power or streangth, but all given by Him in my life.
Maby there is a better way to word it all, but I spoke from my heart, and the truth is, Jesus did save me, from myself. :)

I understand that the saved at birth should be set aside for a better way to describe ones walk in Jesus.
I think that it would be better worded if one simply said they knew Jesus early in life, and was born again at a spacific time.
But I also believe we need to be careful in judging when this time was for any person, for in truth, only God knows this.
I do agree, being born again is an act of faith, believing on Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh.
Born of water and spirit.
In the end though, wether we can speak to how or when one is born again, we all are saved from before creation, because of God Our Father's love for us in Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh.
It comes down to wether we recieve or reject His gift.

God bless:)
pickles
 

onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,115
24
38
#37
God has called all of us out from eternal darkness to these current vessels (bodies), So "He " can work sin
Out and put His son back in.. He has called all of us and not one is righteous , no not one .. We are all in the process of refinement and being purified.. We must be careful not to cast our eyes upon anything or anyone that can take our focus and drag us off, or come to the conclusion of who has a better opinion. for Sin is crouching at the door. if he can capture our attention he can drag us off .. We must stand sober minded casting all cares upon the Lord. I see someone in their " refining process" and say " but by the grace of God , there go I"
Our salvation was won the day Jesus died.. Which was before you or I were ever born.. this has been done for everyone of us.. We can't undo what Christ has already done.. It was finished a long time ago.. I stand by what my profile Says .."saved before I was ever born" I was saved the very second Jesus died, I just didn't know it..that's what He says not what I say.. I'm not going to be arrogant enough to go against what God says He already did for me.. for us all, a very long time ago.. My
profile will stand as is... It supports what "God said He already did for me". And he also said He would wait for me until I believed Him.. And I do! :). Love you guys I'm so glad we are able to come together and talk about this .. It's really great!!

Powemm,
Thanks for taking the time to explain.

Firstly, far be it from me to dispute what the Bible says about Christ's redemptive work that happened as a result of his sacrifice on the cross, and that too before we were born. There is no doubt that Christ finished his redemptive work before we were born.

Now, when someone asks us when we are saved, they are asking us when we made a decision to follow Christ wholeheartedly and submitted our will to His. They are not asking us when Christ completed his redemptive work.

For some of us, our decision to follow Christ may have come in stages. That's OK. However, when someone asks me when I was saved, I understand that they are asking me when I made my decision.

I knew about Jesus when I was a little child. I was baptized as a child. As a child I even believed and prayed regularly. As a child, I also believed that Jesus died for my sins. However, I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior (submitted to His will) + repented of my sins + got baptized (in obedience to the scriptures) at the age of 19. That's when I think I was saved, to the best of my knowledge. Now, God knows better. I do not have to know everything, and I do not have to worry about my salvation as long as I obey Jesus.

So, salvation is a two-way process:
1) God's initiative when he sent Jesus to die for us (finished and completed at the cross)
2) Our response (our decision to follow Jesus + our lifelong adherence to his path)

Without our response, there is no salvation.

Blessings! :)
 
Aug 8, 2012
2,003
0
0
#39
What does it mean when someone says in their profile that they were saved "at birth" or saved "since birth?"
Ecclesiastes 9:3-5

King James Version (KJV)

3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
 
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Powemm

Guest
#40
Online buddy,
Thank you I agree! Wasn't indicating anyone was going against the Word , not at all. I speak things out in the open as a reminder to myself to believe God... I have a filthy beast "flesh" that still wants to operate in it's way of thinking instead of believing God.. I do it so the spirit man inside me stays larger and puts the fleshly side still present in it's place .. I hope that makes sense. I completely agree with the beautiful passages posted and I appreciate the "two-way" salvation process being shown . I wasn't able to put that in my profile so I put what God did first instead :). What He has done, is doing and will continue to do, is far greater than anything I do. Together, with the cry out to Jesus (Yahwey!)my admission that I'm a sinner to Jesus(Yahweh Maccaddeshcem) my sanctifier! my belief of what Jesus did for me, is doing for me, and will continue His good work in me as "Lord over my life" " wich you can bet He is :) " becomes the completeness of my salvation all together.. We must be careful leaning onto our own understanding.. The enemy wants something to "look" a certain way therefore He plants a "thought" if not captured it becomes an idea , Saying something other than "what God tells us to believe.." The minute we take our eyes off that? Trouble begins.. Love you guys!! I wobble a lot.. I'm still learning how to balance what's coming out and mean absolutely no I'll, or condemnation..too or towards anyone.. God is simply making His son in us all the rockstar in our lives and discussions.. I plan on keeping my end that way.. Blessings and peace among all our discussions, may He be the focus and the light of it all. I'd say this thought was captured and apprehended ! Way to Go !!!