OSAS-Please answer me these questions

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M

Minich

Guest
#1
Sorry, I know your all thinking not another OSAS debate but I am genuinely seeking some scriptural based answers on a few points playing on my mind. The OSAS theory has been playing on my heart for some time now & I've tried researching as much as I can but are never 100% convinced either way. In the past I've been against OSAS but the more I study the topic the more I'm been shown that once saved really is always saved.
So can some one who is for OSAS please respond to my following points.

1-The book of life. There are many verses in the bible Refering to being blotted out of the book of life. Here's a few;
Psalm 69:28 (KJV) May they be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
Revelation 3:5. (KJV) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
So I think if their name can be blotted out of the book of life then this means they can lose their salvation, right?

2- The parable of the 10 virgins in Mathew 25:1-13
25*“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2*Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3*The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4*The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5*The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6*“At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
7*“Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8*The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’
9*“‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10*“But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11*“Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’
12*“But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’
13*“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

This tells me, if we aren't walking in the spirit then we can lose our salvation. I believe this parable is talking about the rapture but if those that weren't ready had died in the mean time does that not mean they would have lot their salvation?

3-Why would Satan bother to tempt Christians if he knew that they could never be his?

Sorry, just a bit confused. Looking forwards to some responses.
 
Aug 29, 2012
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#2
if you do not follow OSAS, then what is your hope in Jesus' blood as being the sacrifice to cover your sin? All you then have left is your works as a part of your salvation, but James does negate that one..... As for the book of life, I wonder more along the lines of was your name ever there? God either knows all, or He is fallible under this approach. Admittedly, blot out would mean to remove, but the Bible's culture is in expressions via word pictures, not our understanding of a Greek list of facts, as our culture is based upon.

i agree with your comment on number 2; you are to be watching, waiting and prepared for His return and that can only be by living in the Spirit, day by day, moment by moment, our only hope being in Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection.

so I will take on number 3:
to steal your rewards
to steal your blessings
to steal your witness so that no one will ever listen to you

if Satan can negate your witness, it is game over for you. and there are so many ways to do this - materialism, superstition, illicit sex, raising up false witnesses, etc - any of the "gods" of this culture.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#3
Salvation is a state of existence or a walk. Many falsely view it as an abstract legal standing or a as a bubble where they are cloaked by the righteousness of Jesus while their deeds are still evil.

Any individual who is truly saved knows very well they can turn from God and be lost because God does not over power the will

Eze_18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.



In the following passage Paul teaches that partaking in the divine nature is possible only after having escaped the corruption in the world through lust.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


Thus having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust having being crucified with Christ the Christian then is able to yield to the will of God and add to their faith.

2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Those who actually DO the things listed above make their calling and election sure and ensure that entrance into the kingdom of Jesus Christ be made abundantly sure. This is because the kingdom is spiritual and the means to access it is spiritual and it is through yielding to (walking in) the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ that the law is fulfilled within (heart purity).

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Thus eternal life is granted to the following people...

Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,


Rom 2:7 are those who add to their faith and thus partake in the divine nature as they grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

These people know full well they can turn away from the holy commandment and so did the apostles for they taught that one must remain steadfast and run the race to the end.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.




These things are simple to understand but are often twisted by the error of the wicked which teaches that you can be saved and yet still in bondage to the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#4
Theories of the Atonement



  • The Ransom Theory: The earliest of all, originating with the Early Church Fathers, this theory claims that Christ offered himself as a ransom (Mark 10:45). Where it was not clear was in its understanding of exactly to whom the ransom was paid. Many early church fathers viewed the ransom as paid to Satan.

  • The Satisfaction (or Commercial) Theory: The formulator of this theory was the medieval theologian Anselm of Canterbury (1034-1109), in his book, Cur Deus Homo (lit. Why the God Man). In his view, God's offended honor and dignity could only be satisfied by the sacrifice of the God-man, Jesus Christ. Anselm offered compelling biblical evidence that the atonement was not a ransom paid by God to the devil but rather a debt paid to God on behalf of sinners. Anselm's work established a foundation for the Protestant Reformation, specifically the understanding of justification by faith. See main page on Satisfaction theory

  • The Penal-Substitution Theory: This view was formulated by the 16th century Reformers as an extension of Anselm's Satisfaction theory. Anselm's theory was correct in introducing the satisfaction aspect of Christ's work and its necessity, however the Reformers saw it as insufficient because it was referenced to God's honor rather than his justice and holiness and was couched more in terms of a commercial transaction than a penal substitution. This Reformed view says simply that Christ died for man, in man's place, taking his sins and bearing them for him. The bearing of man's sins takes the punishment for them and sets the believer free from the penal demands of the law: The righteousness of the law and the holiness of God are satisfied by this substitution. See main page on Penal substitution theory

  • The Moral-Example Theory (or Moral-Influence Theory): Christ died to influence mankind toward moral improvement. This theory denies that Christ died to satisfy any principle of divine justice, but teaches instead that His death was designed to greatly impress mankind with a sense of God's love, resulting in softening their hearts and leading them to repentance. Thus, the Atonement is not directed towards God with the purpose of maintaining His justice, but towards man with the purpose of persuading him to right action. Formulated by Peter Abelard (1079-1142) partially in reaction against Anselm's Satisfaction theory, this view was held by the 16th century Socinians. Versions of it can be found later in F. D. E. Schleiermacher (1768-1834) and Horace Bushnell (1802-1876).
He Himself took on Him the burden of our iniquities, He gave His own Son as a ransom for us, the holy One for transgressors, the blameless One for the wicked, the righteous One for the unrighteous, the incorruptible One for the corruptible, the immortal One for them that are mortal. For what other thing was capable of covering our sins than His righteousness? By what other one was it possible that we, the wicked and ungodly, could be justified, than by the only Son of God? O sweet exchange! O unsearchable operation! O benefits surpassing all expectation! that the wickedness of many should be hid in a single righteous One, and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors!

He loved us when He gave Himself a ransom for us, that He might cleanse us by His blood from our old ungodliness, and bestow life on us when we were almost on the point of perishing through the depravity that was in us. Let no one of you, therefore, cherish any grudge against his neighbor. For says our Lord, "Forgive, and it shall be forgiven unto you." Give no occasion to the Gentiles, lest "by means of a few foolish men the word and doctrine [of Christ.] be blasphemed."For says the prophet, as in the person of God, "Woe to him by whom my name is blasphemed among the Gentiles."


It was not until St. Anselm's famous work Cur Deus Homo (1098) that attention was focused on the theology of redemption with the aim of providing more exact definitions[4] (though there is disagreement as to how influential penal conceptions were in the first five centuries). Anselm held that to sin is for man "not to render his due to God."[5] Comparing what was due to God and what was due to the feudal Lord, he argued that what was due to God was honour. "'Honor' comprises the whole complex of service and worship which the whole creation, animate and inanimate, in heaven and earth, owes to the Creator. The honor of God is injured by the withdrawal of man's service which he is due to offer."[6] This failure constitutes a debt, weight or doom, for which man must make satisfaction, but which lies beyond his competence; only if a new man can be found who by perfect obedience can satisfy God's honor and by some work of supererogation can provide the means of paying the existing debt of his fellows, can God's original purpose be fulfilled. So Christ not only lives a sinless life, which is again his due, but also is willing to endure death for the sake of love. Thus, Anselm's view can best be understood from medieval feudalistic conceptions of authority, of sanctions and of reparation. Anselmian satisfaction contrasts with penal substitution in that Anselm sees the satisfaction (i.e. restitution) as an alternative to punishment "The honor taken away must be repaid, or punishment must follow" (bk 1 ch 8), whereas penal substitution views the punishment as the means of satisfaction.

Broadly speaking,
Martin Luther followed Anselm, thus remaining mainly in the "Latin" model identified by Gustaf Aulén. However, he held that Christ's atoning work encompassed both his active and passive obedience to the law: as the perfectly innocent God-man, he fulfilled the law perfectly during his life AND he, in his death on the cross, bore the eternal punishment that all men deserved for their breaking the law. Unlike Anselm, Luther thus combines both satisfaction and punishment.[7]

Calvin
appropriated Anselm's ideas but changed the terminology to that of the criminal law with which he was familiar - he was trained as a lawyer - reinterpreted in the light of Biblical teaching on the law. Man is guilty before God's judgement and the only appropriate punishment is eternal death. The Son of God has become man and has stood in man's place to bear the immeasurable weight of wrath; the curse, and the condemnation of a righteous God. He was "made a substitute and a surety in the place of transgressors and even submitted as a criminal, to sustain and suffer all the punishment which would have been inflicted on them."[8]

The work of the
Reformers, including Zwingli and Philip Melanchthon, was hugely influential. It took away from religion the requirement of works, whether corporal or spiritual, of the need for penances, belief in purgatory, indeed the whole medieval penitential system; and it did so by emphasizing the finality of Christ's work

The word
atonement was invented in the sixteenth century by William Tyndale who recognized that there was not a direct English translation of the biblical Hebraic concept. The word is composed of two parts "at" and "onement" in order to reflect the dual aspect of Christ's sacrifice: the remission of sin and reconciliation of man to God. Tyndale's concept overcome the limitations of the word "reconciliation" whilst incorporating aspects of propitiation and forgiveness.[1][2][3]
Recapitulation (First Millennia AD)


Humanity’s problem was that sin separated us from God, causing death due to lack of “participation” in God’s immortality. Christ in becoming human and living a human life, combined the natures of God and human in himself, thereby spiritually reuniting man and God, and thus saving us from death.

Christus Victor (First Millennia AD)

Christ “fought” against all the different “powers” that hold humanity in hostage (Satan, death, sin, disease, poverty etc), and “defeated” them. He defeated sickness by healing people, he defeated poverty by helping the poor, he defeated the devil by casting out spirits, he defeated death by being resurrected etc. In this way he waged war against these things, both defeating them himself and inspiring us to do the same and not fear them.

Ransom from Satan (First Millennia AD)

The souls of sinners are under Satan’s power, so in order to rescue us, Christ offered himself to Satan in exchange for our souls. But since Christ himself had no sin, Satan was unable to hold Christ within his power and God resurrected him from death. This view is depicted by CS Lewis in The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe.

Moral Exemplar (First Millennia AD)

Christ through his life set an example to inspire and for us to follow. Through his teachings taught us how to live and what was important. Through his death demonstrated faithfulness to God and his teachings becoming a martyr and setting an example. Through his resurrection he showed that death was not the end and that God approves of those who live like Jesus.

Satisfaction (1100-1500AD)

God’s honor was offended by our sin, therefore being infinitely honorable he had to inflict infinite punishment on us to preserve his honor. However through Christ’s perfect obedience to the point of death, God’s honor is restored, and we no longer need to be punished. (Developed to replace Ransom from Satan)

Penal Substitution (1500AD onward)

God is just so he must punish our sins by sending us to hell. Christ died taking on himself our sins/punishment, thereby allowing God to forgive us. (Developed from Satisfaction)

Governmental View (1600-1900AD)

Christ died as a public demonstration by God as to the seriousness of sin, and because it is right that there be punishment for sin. Our sin wasn’t actually transferred to Christ. (A version of Penal Substitution)

Ransom Verses: Passages like 1 Corinthians 15:21-26, 1 Corinthians 15:55, Hebrews 2:14-15, 2 Timothy 1:10, and Matthew 27:52-53 which refer to death as an enemy, and describe Jesus' death and resurrection as being victorious over death and destroying death for believers.

Passages like Romans 6:18, Romans 8:21, Galatians 5:1, Romans 6:7, and Revelation 1:5 emphasize setting the captives free, a strong theme in the ransom theory.
Revelation 5 and 19 describe Jesus as a victorious conquering king who has conquered death.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#5
The Ministry of Reconciliation!
Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation 2Cor5:18
In Apostolic times the disciples preached the Ministry of Reconciliation, which consisted of Repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts20:21) Christ Commanded that this Ministry be preached to all Nations, beginning in Jerusalem.. (Lk24:47) The Disciples were Eye Witnesses of these things and Obeyed to the Letter! They DID NOT Reason in their minds that the Covenant of Grace suddenly meant God was no longer concerned with sin because everything had been taken care of on the Cross. They Did Not travel the Country side telling people to Trust in the finished Work of Jesus Christ for their Salvation. Nor Did they EVER imply to ANYONE that their Future Sins were Already forgiven in Advance. Yet today THIS is the COMMON Message of so-called ‘Christian’ Ministers!

The Apostles Ministry was Simply Repentance and Faith
BOTH PROVEN by DEEDS! (Acts26:18-20)
They NEVER Separated the Deeds from the Act because they Clearly understood the Nature of Divine Reconciliation. That it was NOT Based on some kind of Substitution or mysterious transfer taking place, BUT
a Restoration of Favor determined on CONDITIONS! God had Granted man ‘Favor’ (Grace) so he could now Approach the Mercy Seat of ‘Reconciliation’ on CONDITION of a Repentance that included NOT Merely a ‘Change’ of Mind, but most important a STOPPING of Sin!

In this a Reconciliation between God and man could take place based on a CLEARING OF WRONG DOING. (2Cor7:10-11) Literally, ‘To
Sit again with’ was established. (which is the clear meaning of the word) The Wronged Party (God) offered (Granted) the Guilty party (You!) an opportunity to Clear the Slate and Start over. The Wrong Doing (Sin) is satisfied (appeased) by the Blood of Christ. (The Sinless Victim) The Blood is applied to Penitent Soul to PURGE the Conscience and Purity the Heart. (Heb9:14)

Anything Short of this and Salvation or Redemption becomes a NOTION or something accepted in the Mind or intellect, but NOTHING Really changes inside. This is Why so many people who consider themselves Christians on the way to heaven, covered by Grace and forgiven in advance, remain Vile and Contrary to the Bible. To them the ‘
Atonement’ (reconciliation) happened at ‘one time’ (Long ago) and thereby satisfied God’s Wrath against sin by making Jesus sin, punishing Him and then Transferring the Accomplishment He Provided to anyone who TRUSTS that it has taken place.

Therefore the Necessity of ‘
Reconciliation’ by Clearing yourself of Wrong Doing is NO longer required. The Person is Forgiven by Virtue of what has been PROVIDED, NOT by meeting any CONDITIONS set forth by God. The Concept of ‘Atonement’ (and the word) had to be INVENTED in order to Support this, otherwise man would be subjected to a prolonged Crisis of Conviction for his sins and a Season of godly sorrow during his efforts to become CLEAR of the Wrong Doing.

Although these are the
EXACT DEEDS Spoken of in the Bible as the Ministry of Reconciliation, man has chosen another path to Redemption that renders these things Null and Void. Under the Corrupted System ‘Repentance’ (if mentioned at all) becomes ‘Confession’ of sinfulness and Faith is a Passive Trust that Jesus Paid the Price for your sins. The STOPPING of Sin is not an issue, only the Trust. Clearing and Restitution are therefore OUT of the question and condemned as WORKS! The DEEDS of Repentance and Faith are In effect thrown to the Wind and with it the Ministry of Reconciliation.

Man Must be Reconciled to God. (Not God to man) God CANNOT Extend His Forgiveness for Sin while you Continue in it. If Sin can be Forgiven
‘In Process’ (as most people believe) the WORD ‘Reconciliation’ would have to be Removed from the Scriptures----or (better yet) Re-Defined to Mean:
‘Covered at One Time!’ In this Manner the Death of Christ is not a
‘Sin Offering’ Granted to give man a chance to be Reconciled on Condition of Repentance, BUT a ‘Provision’ that includes a Transfer of the sin from you to Christ and automatic forgiveness of sin, Past, Present and Future!



Thus the Word:
‘Atonement’ was invented to facilitate this error in the early 1500’s by William Tyndale, a
Protestant
reformer from England, who naturally despised the teaching of Catholicism that required Acts of ‘Reparation’ (making amends, restitution, clearing) BEFORE forgiveness could be Granted. The early Protestants saw this as an un-necessary part of Redemption because the Sacrifice of Christ had (in their minds) Already Provided the means (or works) as part of His Death on the Cross. Faith (or Trust) was the ONLY necessary element required of man to partake of this Great Gift and be Saved.

The Great Error on BOTH SIDES was Substituting the DEEDS of Repentance with Something entirely un-Biblical that God NEVER intended. For the Catholics they Replaced the DEEDS with RITUALS such as Praying the Rosary to Clear the sins, NOT the Actual STOPPING of the Sin. The Protestants eliminated the Need for ANY DEEDS Whatsoever by Inventing the Notion that Christ PROVIDED it for them! Thus the Sin NEVER Stopped, but the person was forgiven nonetheless.


This Corruption of
the Ministry of Reconciliation has Deep Roots in Christian history. As far back as the eleventh century a theologian named Anselm, developed the ‘satisfaction’ theory. Which views God as a Holy Sovereign ruler to which mankind owes a debt because of sin. Therefore as a King He could forgive this great debt but NOT without doing great harm to His Kingdom. The Debt had to be SATISFIED Before Pardon could be granted. That’s where the Penal Substitution of Christ came in. He Received the Punishment Due the Sinner and thereby Satisfied the Wrath of God once and for all, by becoming Sin and being Cursed. They took this further into Error by adding the LOVE dimension to it not long after in the twelfth century. Here God in His Great Love for mankind (John3:16) Sacrificed His Only Son on the Cross as a Moral influence toward man to motivate him into service out of Gratitude for this Great Act.

ALL of this is a Far Cry from the Ministry of Reconciliation Taught by the Apostles in the early church. To them Repentance was
a Scrubbing, Clearing and Casting out of Doors all defilement, ignorance and sin, BEFORE Pardon could be Granted and the Holy Spirit given. Saint Mark called Christ’s Sacrifice a ‘Ransom for many’ (Mk10:45) Whether he meant this in a metaphoric sense that God Purchased the Souls of man from the bondage of sin, or literally paid Ransom to Satan is not known. The early Disciples who followed the Original Apostles were mixed in their understanding of this passage. But during the first two hundred odd years of Christian Preaching, the Reconciliation was the means by which God could rescue man from the Corrupting influence of sin by freeing him from its bondage.

What man has done by Corrupting the clear definition of the
Reconciliation is seal his own Doom. He has placed himself in a position where God CANNOT Save him. He is ‘Alienated’ from touching the Blood of Christ and has in effect Trampled it to the ground! Genuine Repentance is Impossible because people are coming to God Pre-supposing that He will Pardoned their sins in PROCESS! The Preachers make EVERY Effort to PROVE this Fallacy Twenty Four Hours a Day and the ENTIRE System has been Corrupted to Support the Lie.

The Truth is Very Simple and Can Free you from the Bondage and Addiction of Sin. But for the Most Part it has been Hidden from this present generation. Christ said only a FEW would find the Narrow Path to Eternal life and Many would not be able. The first step you need to take is OUT of the Corrupted System you are in and into the WORD of God. The longer you remain under the influence of these lies, the LESS likely it is you will EVER be Saved. If you Don’t Care Already, God help you before it’s too late.

Standing the Gap
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#6
if you do not follow OSAS, then what is your hope in Jesus' blood as being the sacrifice to cover your sin? All you then have left is your works as a part of your salvation, but James does negate that one..... As for the book of life, I wonder more along the lines of was your name ever there? God either knows all, or He is fallible under this approach. Admittedly, blot out would mean to remove, but the Bible's culture is in expressions via word pictures, not our understanding of a Greek list of facts, as our culture is based upon.

i agree with your comment on number 2; you are to be watching, waiting and prepared for His return and that can only be by living in the Spirit, day by day, moment by moment, our only hope being in Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection.

so I will take on number 3:
to steal your rewards
to steal your blessings
to steal your witness so that no one will ever listen to you

if Satan can negate your witness, it is game over for you. and there are so many ways to do this - materialism, superstition, illicit sex, raising up false witnesses, etc - any of the "gods" of this culture.
Where is the heart purity in this message. It is so awful that blood of Jesus Christ and His death on the cross has been perverted into a provisional cloak for ongoing rebellion.

How far has the church fallen when professing Christian's teach that the sins of the flesh only negate the rewards, blessing and witness of a Christian who trusts in Jesus?

Jesus came to redeem us from all iniquity and purify unto himself a peculiar people zealous of doing the right thing.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Jesus did not come to cloak the filthy whereby God pretends that you are righteous and holy because He sees Jesus instead of your sin.

You have to be a doer of the word, not a hearer only. It is through DOING that we cooperate with God putting His grace to use, this is the adding to our faith that makes entrance into the kingdom abundantly sure.

2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

When Paul speaks it is not of works he is not negating being a doer of the word. Paul is teaching that it is not of the works of law which could only clean the outside of the cup. The inside needs to be clean and the is done through yielding to the implanted word of God within which results in heart purity. Strip that dynamic from the Gospel and you no longer have the Gospel.

We are made pure through obedience to the truth through the Spirit, we are made clean by His word, it is faith that purifies the heart, the blood cleanses us from all unrighteousness on the condition that we are walking in the light. You cannot do these things if you are walking in the lusts of the flesh. That is why Peter taught that we ESCAPE the corruption that is in the world through lust that we may partake in the divine nature.

God is not going to change or purify your heart when you die. It either changes now through repentance and faith whereby you can access the propitiatory work of Jesus Christ who offered Himself for us or you will die in your sins.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

What is the end of the commandment, its purpose? It is this...

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Salvation and entrance into the kingdom IS NOT positional, it is not abstract, it is not some provision, cloak or bubble. It is a reality of walking in the Spirit in humble submission to God having had the heart cleansed from all defilement and made pure. If you don't have that you have not been born again!
 
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Sep 8, 2012
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#7
The simplest way to look at it is God is all powerful.
The creator is omnipotent.
If He says you are elect, who will frustrate His purposes?
If you can save yourself then were is His omnipotence?
Free will is true, up to a point.
Do you have the freewill to fly like a bird?
Do you have the freewill to throw a baseball 98 m.p.h.?
You say you have the moral choice but who gave you that ? - and who gave you the discernment or ability to choose?

There is only one first cause, and it is God.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
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#8
1-The book of life. There are many verses in the bible Refering to being blotted out of the book of life. Here's a few;
Psalm 69:28 (KJV) May they be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
Revelation 3:5. (KJV) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
So I think if their name can be blotted out of the book of life then this means they can lose their salvation, right?
Absolutely! If "OSAS no matter what kind of life you live" is true, there wouldn't be need of blotting anyone's name out of the book of life because once they are in the book of life they are forever in there.
If those whose names were blotted out were never saved to begin with, how did they get into the book of life in the first place? If your name is written in the book of life, you are obviously saved.


3-Why would Satan bother to tempt Christians if he knew that they could never be his?
Satan tempts Christians because he knows that there is a possibility of falling (the weak in faith) 1 Tim 4:1-2. Several passages of the scriptures warn believers about falling away so we should put on the whole armor of God, take heed lest we fall, watch and pray, endure, overcome, etc.

God has promised to give us victory over temptation: There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it (1 Cor 10:13).


 
Sep 8, 2012
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#9
So what is the answer?
Is it not to keep the faith - i.e., keep relying on Him?.....
(and lean not on your own understanding?)
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#10
Absolutely! If "OSAS no matter what kind of life you live" is true, there wouldn't be need of blotting anyone's name out of the book of life because once they are in the book of life they are forever in there.
If those whose names were blotted out were never saved to begin with, how did they get into the book of life in the first place? If your name is written in the book of life, you are obviously saved.



Satan tempts Christians because he knows that there is a possibility of falling (the weak in faith) 1 Tim 4:1-2. Several passages of the scriptures warn believers about falling away so we should put on the whole armor of God, take heed lest we fall, watch and pray, endure, overcome, etc.

God has promised to give us victory over temptation: There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it (1 Cor 10:13).
Very well thought out and worthy of repeating. Never thought about that. Thank you for this undestanding.
 
Sep 28, 2012
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#11
You get the book of life...
and the lambs book of life.

in book of life your name can be removed.
but lambs book it can't

Its all about predestination by foreknowledge
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#12
Revelation 20

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

Revelation 2

10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


Good study this morning.

Thank you.
 
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Abiding

Guest
#13
Wonder why someone would say that IF you think you can get
saved and go on in sin....blah blah.

Can a person really be saved? and go on in sin?

IF not than your preaching to the choir..of which they dont need to hear.

IF your preaching to the unregenerate...than change up and preach the gospel.
 
Sep 8, 2012
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Wiil-E, it's more than foreknowledge.
"I know who are my own, and I will keep them; and none can take them out of My hand."
Without God's grace, we are all as saved as hitler.
And again - "you have not chosen Me; but I have chosen you."
Read John ch. 17, - the whole of the work of salvation is The Father's.
(Through the Son),........with the earnest of our inheritance being the Holy Spirit,
which leads us into all truth.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#16
second death is after the lake of fire
Revelation 20

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
Sep 8, 2012
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Abiding said - 'Wonder why someone would say that IF you think you can get
saved and go on in sin....blah blah
.'

Then what good would the Eucharist be Abiding.
Don't we still need to be saved by something we ACTUALLY partake in?
(In other words, actually DO!) - (Day after legalist day)
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#18
You get the book of life...
and the lambs book of life.
in book of life your name can be removed.
but lambs book it can't
Its all about predestination by foreknowledge
There are five instances of 'The Book of Life' in New Testament Scripture (Php 4:3, Rev 3:5, 17:8, 20:12, 22:19). On the other hand, there are two instances telling us who owns that Book of Life. Namely, the Lamb (Rev 13:8, 21:27). Note that in Rev 13:8, the KJV renders it 'the book of life of the Lamb'. But however, in Rev 21:27, it is written, 'the Lamb's Book (document) of Life'. In either case, the first genative tells us: pertaining to. The second tells us: belonging to.

Rev 13:8 = τηβιβλωG976 N-DSF -(the Book) τηςζωηςG2222 N-GSF - (of the Life) τουαρνιουG721 N-GSN - (of the Lamb)

Rev 21:27 τωβιβλιωG975 N-DSN - (the Book) της ζωηςG2222 N-GSF - (of the Life) τουαρνιουG721 N-GSN - (of the Lamb)

If we look at the Old Testament, we will see that there has only been one book which has been written by the Lord which one can be blotted out of (Exo 32:32). And that within that book, the names of the just are inscripted (Psa 69:28). These are they who shall be deliverred (Dan 12:1) It is the Lord who can blot out the names of those written in that book who sin against Him (Exo 32:33) and return that one as one under His wrath. (Deut 29:20).

Now, who is the Lord? The Lamb. And the book which belongs to Him is called 'The Book of Life'. There are no two distinct books, but one which the Lord wrote since the foundation of the world. The only predestination (predetermination) there is is God's salvation plan as pertaining to faith being the means of salvation. It is faith which He has foreordained, not us to be or not to be His children. If this is so, then what purpose would there be to the Christ's faith, seeing that we are forcefully destinated to be or not to be? If I am destined for damnation, but yet lived my live in the footsteps of the Lord, would God than be unjust to condemn me, even though He says, "whosoever will place their faith (in the Son), shall not perish." Would that not contradict God in His words? God forbid. Let God be found true in the things which He says and let us be found a liar.