Law: Old Way of Salvation and Faith: New Way to Salvation

[cfultz3]

This thread is in response to a quote I made in another thread as pertaining to the doing (works) of the Law in the Old Testament being the means of salvation for our ancient brothers, as compared to faith without works being the means of salvation in the New Testament for us. This is, by no means, meant to prove who is wrong or who is right. NOOOOOOOO!!!!! But, as the Lord leads, I only seek the Truth to be said and understood. Please, do not see this as a confrontation, but, in all possibilities, a means of undersatnding for all concerned.


My quote:

Yes the same deliverance from comdemnation is offered in both Testaments, But, how to obtain that salvation is different. One was through constant sacrifice, the other with one everlasting sacrifice. One was under condemnation, the other under grace. One had the Law to guide, the other, the Spirit. One says salvation is based on your obedience to the Law, the other says that salvation is based on faith, and that not of your own accord, but was through a gracious act of God. Do we, therefore, obtain salvation through obedience of the physical flesh, or through obedience of the guidance of the Spirit, namely, faith? Do we have salvation through the flesh or through Christ?

Note: One = Law of Ordinances of the Old Testament. Other = The Law of the Spirit by Christ of the New Testament​

It was not impossible for Old Testament saints to keep the Law of Moses. In fact, it was required of them. Those of us from the New Testament look at passages such as Rom. 3:20, Gal. 3:10, James 2:10, and conclude that it was impossible for anyone to keep the whole Law of Ordinances and that the Law only pointed them to Christ. But, with an earnest desire to investigate Scripture, let us go and search out what is said concerning the Law of the Old Testament being the means by which our ancient brothers were saved.

We understand that Jesus' death upon the cross was a gracious act of God for us to obtain salvation by faith alone. In fact, the word 'cross' is nowheres to be found in the Old Testament and is not mentioned until Matthew 10:38. So this question must be asked, 'how were the Old Testament believers to look ahead to something that was not yet revealed, but remained the mystery of God until due time, and thus, knew nothing about?' They simply could not.

If salvation by faith was through God's grace enacted by Jesus Christ, then they of the Old Testament, having not yet received that everlasting sacrifice of Jesus, must have been saved not by faith in Christ, but by the deeds commanded by the Law. Under the Law, people were saved by keeping the law God gave them through Moses until Christ's death purchased their eternal redemption (the reason He went to Hades was to preach the Good News of their deliverance to those in Abraham's Bosom. That is, He delivered the saints of the Old Covenant, they who walked with Him upon the Earth after His resurrection).




Consider the following commands from God to those under the Law. Note that God expected Israel to keep His law ('shall' being a command of future action enacted upon one's self. Future Middle Voice Indicative = you shall cause yourselves to...).

1. You shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he has commanded you. (Deut. 6:17)
2. And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them: (Deut. 17:19)
3. Be ye therefore very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses, that ye turn not aside therefrom to the right hand or to the left; (Josh. 23:6)
4. As well as these verses: Exodus 15:26, Deuteronomy 4:1-2, 4:6, 4:9, 6:1-2, 6:17, 11:13, 11:22, Joshua 1:8, 22:5, 1Kings 2:3, 1 Chroncicles 28:7-8, Psalms 119:4.

The objection to this is, "In order to show them that they were sinners and helpless to save themselves,God gave them the law knowing they couldn't keep it." But, never once did He hint that Israel couldn't obey His Law, but all the more, commanded their obedience. In fact, even the Jews themselves did not think the Law was unreasonable. Consider their response, "And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do (Ex 24:3) and be obedient (Ex 24:7, Josh 24:24). And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD." (Ex. 19:8)


When a person violated an ordinance of the Law, except for those of worthy of the death penality, there was a sacrifice available within the Law to atone for that infraction. Thus, when one broke a law, but then offered the proper sacrifice, he was keeping the law overall.



Scripture mentions that some of those in the Old Testament did keep the Law:

• Ye have kept all that Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, and have obeyed my voice in all that I commanded you: (Josh. 22:2)
• And yet they would not hearken unto their judges, but they went a whoring after other gods, and bowed themselves unto them: they turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, obeying the commandments of the LORD; but they did not so. (Judg. 2:17)
• David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes: (1 Kings 11:34)
• For he clave to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses. (2 Kings 18:6)
• I have remembered thy name, O LORD, in the night, and have kept thy law. (Psa. 119:55)

 

[cfultz3]

But the keeping of the law in the Old Testament does not mean a person was sinless, and thus, was still in need of a Savior (in which they did receive by Jesus going to Hades and delivering them). It only means that person followed the Law. In fact, the law had provision for breaking it in most cases by prescribing a sacrifice the offender must offer at his own expense (Heb 9:22). When that person followed this procedure, he was abiding by and keeping the Law. Technically, the offender was guilty from the time of the offense until the time the sacrifice was offered, but after the sacrifice he was forgiven and was in good standing of keeping the Law. In short, keeping the law in the Old Testament was simply being obedient to the legal rules and regulations laid down by God through Moses (Lev 5:5-6, 19:21-22).

Just as a law abiding citizen can keep all the innumable secular laws as a way of life, so too, could the Jews keep the Law of ordinances. But if one does break a secular law and pay the prescribed penality, just as it was with the Law, he is essencely abiding by the requirments of the law, and thus, each is a law abiding citizen in both cases. The Law is no more impossible to keep then one keeping to the simple social laws of conduct. Although the Jews were sinners by nature and born in sin, does that mean they were incapable of obeying the Law? No! Did they naturally have to make a graven image? No, if they chose not to. Did they naturally have to say the name of the LORD in vain? No, if they chose not to. In fact, God used the Law of Moses as a means in the Old Testment to separate the saved from the lost. Those who obeyed were promised mercy, forgiveness and life (Ex 20:6, 345:7, Lev 18:5, Psa 103:3, 130:4, Eze 20:11, Dan 9:9). Those who disobeyed was promised death, destruction and Hell (Ex 32:32-33, Lev 5:17, Deut 29:20, 32:22). Scripture is clear in this matter, the Law of Moses COULD BE kept and WAS kept by some. By following the Law's procedure, the person was keeping the Law and securing his personal salvation.

Also worth mentioning is that, just as it is with faith, an outward obedience to the law with the wrong heart or attitude was not accepted. One had to have a heart that longed for the Lord.

• And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, (Deut. 10:12) and with all thy might (Deut 6:5)
• This day the LORD thy God hath commanded thee to do these statutes and judgments: thou shalt therefore keep and do them with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. (Deut. 26:16)

There are some verses in the New Testament which seem to contradict statements of the Old Testament concerning keeping the law. It is my intent to given a fuller understanding to those verses. The first one is Rom 3:20, 'Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.' There are several things which needs to be taken into consideration here. Namely, it was addressed to the Romans, and not to the Jews. It was written after the crucifixion, by which crucifixion, Christ fulfilled the Law for those of faith. If we are of faith, then the Law cannot justify us any longer, as it did for those who kept it.


It is true for both the Jew and Gentile that there is acknowledgment of sin through the Law. And they of the Old Testament were given provisions by animal sacrifice for their sins to be covered and forgiven. But for the New Testament saint, those provisions are overwritten and completed by the everlasting sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the perpetual Lamb. Rom 3:20, spoken to those after the crucifixion, is correct to say that no flesh today shall be saved by the deeds (the doings) of the Law. But, this does not deny that those of the Law were justified by fuflilling the Law, seeing that Luke 1:6 says concerning two of them: 'And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.'



Further into Romans, Paul speaks about the righteousness which the law could provide,

• For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. (Rom. 10:5)

He even says that he was blameless concerning keeping the law in Phil 3:6-9. What is interesting to note is that he says that righteousness obtained by the Law is one's own righteousness, as oppose to the Law of the Spirit which states that we are righteous before God by faith, and of which, faith is the righteousness which comes from God, not by anything we have done.

Another verse often used to say the law could not have been kept is Gal. 3:10, 'For as many as are of the works of the law(as oppose to the works of the Spirit) are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.' But the curse was only upon those who did not keep the whole Law. The Law, with a built-in curse (Deut 27:26) cursed those who did not keep it and justified those who did. What Paul is saying is that the Law, now ineffectual, is no longer the means to remove the curse of breaking the Law, but that now, Jesus is that means. (Gal 3:13)

Another verse often quoted is James 2:10, 'For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.' But consider that the person could have kept the Law if he would have followed the ordinances dealing with sin. This verse is talking about one who would not go through the perscribed remedy of having broken a law. The provisions in the Law which dealt with sin, if follwed, would have given that person a righteousness God would have accepted and a suitable forgiveness to cover his sin. But, on the other hand, they were not cleared of guilt, 'Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty' (Ex. 34:7, Num 14:18), seeing that they still went to the abode of the dead, Hades. There, because their sin remained, until their guilt was cleared by Jesus' death.

Under the Law, as oppose to those of us under the Spirit pertaking of the good works done by Jesus, each individual had to perform the good works of keeping the law to secure his salvation. If he failed in an area and sinned, he had to work by offering the proper sacrifice to atone for his iniquity. But now, justification is only by faith apart from works of the Law. (Rom 3:20-21, 4:5, 4:13) But before, Romans 11:6 tells us that salvation involved works and not faith only, "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Let us break this verse down and see what is being said.

And if by grace = refers to the remnant saved at this "present time" in verse 5,
then is it no more of works = they are no longer saved by works like the 7000 were who didn't bow to Baal in verse 4.
otherwise grace is no more grace = if you mix works with grace then salvation is not only by grace.
But if it be of works = if salvation in this "present time" is of works
then is it no more grace = then it can't be of only grace
otherwise work is no more work = if you mix grace with works then salvation is not only by works



There are three things which are noteworthy in this passage,

• Salvation at this "present time" is solely by grace apart from works.

• Previously, salvation used to be of works but is now "no more of works."
• and in this "present time" grace and works are mutually exclusive of each other. The two cannot be mixed, seeing that grace is by God and obedience to the Law is a fleshly deed. The Law was once a tutor, but we now have the Spirit who is our Tutor.

This is not to deny that there was no grace and faith in the Old Testament. It means works are no longer required of an individual for salvation in this "present time." The emphasis of the passage is on Church Age salvation by grace not Old Testament salvation by works. There was an element of faith in Old Testament salvation, and grace is involved in all salvation, but Paul's point is there is no works involved in today's salvation. This does not mean faith was non existent before, it was just not the sole means of salvation.



Note how some "Bibles" translate verse 6,

• But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. [NASV]

• And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. [NIV]
• And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. [NKJV]
• But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. [RSV]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Notice how they all say salvation "is no longer on the basis of works", all agreeing to the KJV. The whole point of this thread is to show that the Law of Ordinances was a means of salvation for those of the Old Testament and that the Law of the Spirit is now the only means of salvation for all. Let it not be said that we have obtained our salvation through deeds (the Law of Ordinances (physical dos and dont's)), but by faith (the Law of the Spirit (by which we have been sealed as sons according to faith)). [/FONT]

 

[Ariel82]

the saints in the OT were saved by the Law of the Spirit through faith just as the ones in the NT. they had faith that God would send Jesus as a Messiah. He is he Promised Seed of Abraham who was justified by Faith and not by circumcision or any acts he preformed.

they were held blameless if they followed the letter of the law but they did not have eternal life unless they had the Spirit of God within them. All of the saints in the OT and NT have God's Holy Spirit guiding them. that does not change.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Romans 4

3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

Saved by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

 

[cfultz3]

*
*
*
Saved by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

So true now is this. But there was a time before salvation through God's gracious act of love. It is indeed no longer by works but by grace enacted by Christ. But, how were they to believe in Christ when the Christ was God's mystery until due time? They who were by works received their salvation by believing Jesus when He went to Hades to preach to the them their Good News of deliverance. They are the ones who walked with Christ after His resurrection.

 

[cfultz3]

the saints in the OT were saved by the Law of the Spirit through faith just as the ones in the NT. they had faith that God would send Jesus as a Messiah. He is he Promised Seed of Abraham who was justified by Faith and not by circumcision or any acts he preformed.

they were held blameless if they followed the letter of the law but they did not have eternal life unless they had the Spirit of God within them. All of the saints in the OT and NT have God's Holy Spirit guiding them. that does not change.

The Law of the Spirit (the Spirit as our tutor) replaced the Law of Ordinances (the physical dos and don'ts as a tutor). I am not denying faith in the Old Testament, and neither did they who obeyed the Law as a means to receive everlasting salvation from their Messiah. But they through the Law received forgivenss by temporary sacrifices, but received everlasting forgiveness by the shed blood of Christ. Under the Law, they still faced damnation (separation from God), but received their deliverance from such by Christ going to Hades to deliver them. They looked forward to a Messiah and they who believed Jesus, received their Messiah.

You see, there was faith in the Old Testament, but their faith in the Christ was not realized until He went to them. Just as Abraham believed God when God spoke to him, so too did they believe Christ when He spoke to them. And those who believed were delivered, as we who believe are delivered.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

no one was ever saved by the law. The OT saints could not keep them either, only one man kept them and that is Christ, if the law was required, then no one before Christ was saved.

 

[cfultz3]

no one was ever saved by the law. The OT saints could not keep them either, only one man kept them and that is Christ, if the law was required, then no one before Christ was saved.

Rom_2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (For us today, the Law is simply fulfilled by : Love).

Christ fulfilled the Law, the enmity between Jews and Gentiles, by which, He made us both into a new creature. A salvational plan where works of the Law were no longer neccerary, but faith alone. It was the Gentiles who had a problem with the dos and don'ts of the Law. So by grace, God made salvation obtainable through faith for all. But, let us not forget that the Law remains until all things have been completed. It is no longer there for our salvation, but there to lead to grace.

As we are law abiding citiizens when we fulfill society's rules (either by not breaking the law or paying the penality attached to that law), so too where they obedient to the Law, either by not breaking it or paying the penality. As long as one remains within the rules and regulations associated with the law, one remains obedient, as we remain under grace as long as we remain under the Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Rom_2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (For us today, the Law is simply fulfilled by : Love).

Christ fulfilled the Law, the enmity between Jews and Gentiles, by which, He made us both into a new creature. A salvational plan where works of the Law were no longer neccerary, but faith alone. It was the Gentiles who had a problem with the dos and don'ts of the Law. So by grace, God made salvation obtainable through faith for all. But, let us not forget that the Law remains until all things have been completed. It is no longer there for our salvation, but there to lead to grace.

As we are law abiding citiizens when we fulfill society's rules (either by not breaking the law or paying the penality attached to that law), so too where they obedient to the Law, either by not breaking it or paying the penality. As long as one remains within the rules and regulations associated with the law, one remains obedient, as we remain under grace as long as we remain under the Spirit.

works of the law were NEVER necessary, Unless 1 obayed 100 % they were guilty. ASs the book of hebrews state, the sacrifice of bulls and goats never took away sin. Only the sacrifice of Christ could anyone be saved from adam till the last man standing.

The law never saved anyone, Abraham was saved by faith, not law. David was saved by faith not law, as he said himself, sacrifice you did not desire. for it would do no good.

 

[Abiding]

Romans 4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

 

[cfultz3]

works of the law were NEVER necessary, Unless 1 obayed 100 % they were guilty. ASs the book of hebrews state, the sacrifice of bulls and goats never took away sin. Only the sacrifice of Christ could anyone be saved from adam till the last man standing.

The law never saved anyone, Abraham was saved by faith, not law. David was saved by faith not law, as he said himself, sacrifice you did not desire. for it would do no good.

Even obeying the Law 100 percent still did not hold them guiltless, seeing they went to Abraham's Bosom awaiting their Deliverer. Sins and transgressions were forgiven, but they were still guilty. But the blood of bulls and goats gave them a temportary forgivness, inasmuch as the everlasting blood of Christ gives us forgiveness. And again, that is why they went to Hades, because they were guilty. And when Chrsit presented Himself as their sacrifice, they who beleived were saved.

Of course, the Law did not save them from the judgment of separation from God, only Christ was able to deliver them. And by hearing and believing the Lord in Hades (the abode of the dead), thier faith in Him saved them. But until that day, they who were obedient to the Law went to Abraham's Bosom. You see, we, those in Christ, are no longer held guilty of disobedioence of the Law, because He became our obedience and in such obedience, fulfilled the Law for us of faith.

 

[GreenNnice]

Romans 4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Righteousness=salvation?

Righteousness is nothing more than our being just in God's eyes.

When Abraham was alive the 10 commandments were not yet written. There was no 'Law.'
'Sin' was what caused your going to heaven or not and not following God's leading of their lives through His voice speaking personally to you. Noah believed God when he told them there was going to be a great flood. Did others hear God to, but chose not to listen? What do you think? Of course, they knew, they chose to laugh at Noah and think Noah was silly building an ark in such fruitfully sexual and pleasurable times. Where is this God? « this they were saying. They could never see 'the ark' coming because they were living in sin, and, thus, seperated from God, they chose the seperation, NOT God. God is just, 'that none should perish.' (2 peter 3:9) Salvation through faith in God was attained by obedience in this pre-Law time. After Moses wrote 10 commandments through God's said to him personally commands, THEN those folks, the Israelites were, ultimately, under God, BUT God chose the 10 commandments to parent them. Remember, God is our 'Father,' remember, too, God is the same today, as yesterday, as forevermore.

As Noah did, as Abraham did, we are to STAND on the promises of God.

IF God promises you something then you have to promise Him you will obey, or, 'stand in the gap,' as Ezekiel 22 states. Right Christ peeps, don't be unaccountable when God makes you uncomfortable, for the TESTING of your faith will bring many things (read James 1 )

Take a stand, the promise of the Holy Spirit sealing (not redeeming either, that was the blood) us unto salvation comes with a price, to follow Him, which means believing fully in God's grace given YOU for salvation, that is, being 'saved,' which has nothing to do with your work, but His, up on that cross
Let He who is in you lead you to all Truth . The Lord leads

 

[WolfInOxHide]

"Here is the patience of the Set Apart believers: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus"

Inseparable for a Set Apart Believer.

 

[RedTent]

Why in the world do you guys go on and on and on quoting scripture after scripture that you misunderstand about how Christ changed God, God is different in the OT than God is in the NT, it was different in the world before Christ went to the cross. Abraham knew Christ. The entire sacrificial system was based on what Christ did. It was a shadow, how can a shadow be of something that isn’t? Christ is one with God, they are the same. How could Christ speak against Christ?

You cannot give one OT scripture saying that obedience to the law is what saved anyone. You can find scripture there about grace and faith. THEN comes obedience, not for salvation but so grace and faith can live within. You cannot find any scripture in the OT that says forgiveness wasn’t possible, but you find many where forgiveness was given.

I think you all read and studied the NT and then read the OT trying to make it fit. It is like going to High School, then trying to fit in grade school. Everything in the OT is the basis of the NT, the NT must be the outgrowth of what went on, of who God is as our eternal God used time as we know it to explain His plan of salvation.

 

[Abiding]

Righteousness=salvation?

Righteousness is nothing more than our being just in God's eyes.

When Abraham was alive the 10 commandments were not yet written. There was no 'Law.'
'Sin' was what caused your going to heaven or not and not following God's leading of their lives through His voice speaking personally to you. Noah believed God when he told them there was going to be a great flood. Did others hear God to, but chose not to listen? What do you think? Of course, they knew, they chose to laugh at Noah and think Noah was silly building an ark in such fruitfully sexual and pleasurable times. Where is this God? « this they were saying. They could never see 'the ark' coming because they were living in sin, and, thus, seperated from God, they chose the seperation, NOT God. God is just, 'that none should perish.' (2 peter 3:9) Salvation through faith in God was attained by obedience in this pre-Law time. After Moses wrote 10 commandments through God's said to him personally commands, THEN those folks, the Israelites were, ultimately, under God, BUT God chose the 10 commandments to parent them. Remember, God is our 'Father,' remember, too, God is the same today, as yesterday, as forevermore.

As Noah did, as Abraham did, we are to STAND on the promises of God.

IF God promises you something then you have to promise Him you will obey, or, 'stand in the gap,' as Ezekiel 22 states. Right Christ peeps, don't be unaccountable when God makes you uncomfortable, for the TESTING of your faith will bring many things (read James 1 )

Take a stand, the promise of the Holy Spirit sealing (not redeeming either, that was the blood) us unto salvation comes with a price, to follow Him, which means believing fully in God's grace given YOU for salvation, that is, being 'saved,' which has nothing to do with your work, but His, up on that cross
Let He who is in you lead you to all Truth . The Lord leads

Ha, are you debating the Holyspirit?

 

[jimmydiggs]

So true now is this. But there was a time before salvation through God's gracious act of love. It is indeed no longer by works but by grace enacted by Christ. But, how were they to believe in Christ when the Christ was God's mystery until due time? They who were by works received their salvation by believing Jesus when He went to Hades to preach to the them their Good News of deliverance. They are the ones who walked with Christ after His resurrection.

No longer by works? No one has ever been saved by works of the law.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Why in the world do you guys go on and on and on quoting scripture after scripture that you misunderstand about how Christ changed God, God is different in the OT than God is in the NT,

Where does this notion of "guise! it's a different god!" come from?

 

[jimmydiggs]

Galatians 3

You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[c]


Some of you need to read those words, and heed them. Quit putting your own ideas into scripture. Lest you be foolish Galatians. Those who profess works as a means of salvation at any time in the Salvation Plan of God, need to get back into the word.

 

[damombomb]

It was nothing but pure grace that drew me to him and his loving arms , because he loved me, his word says he does and I know he does.
Do i now keep his commands, to the best of my abilities yes. Am i perfect? No, but he is. I can,t wait to fall at his feet and say Lord
forgive me again for everything I have done. To God be the glory

 

[GreenNnice]

Ha, are you debating the Holyspirit?

No debate. Faith comes in His leading and, His leading is through the Holy Spirit in our lives today and tomorrows , which is part and, parcel of His new promises,