The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

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Feb 17, 2010
3,620
27
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#21
Tan? What makes God the Father and Jesus the Son ONE? Can Jesus and Father God be so ONE that when Jesus says to the thief on the cross.... Tonight you will be with me in paradise... That the thief would be with ALL the Holy ONES, as all holy people ARE PERFECTLY ONE as God and Jesus are ONE... John 17... All holy people are ONE because of the ONE HOLY SPIRIT in them all. And Jesus is in them ALL! And they are in Jesus. But Jesus is in God and God in Him.... That ONE HOLY SPIRIT. Kingdom/heaven/God/Jesus/holy people/ angels/ and all SAVED PEOPLE are ALL IN THE HOLY SPIRIT. In Jesus and in paradise. This thief on the cross was destined to be in the holy resting place, and that is ALSO IN HOLY SPIRIT... So yep. Jesus in Holy Spirit went to the heart of the earth, and the thief went to the resting place ALSO in the Holy Spirit, In heaven paradise and in God!

Read John chapter 17, and see how Jesus prayed that Father will do this ALL IN ONE! That they might be where Jesus are, even though they walk still here... Try to see how Jesus swop spirit with the holy people... John chapter 17. Jesus takes their washed spirits to God, and God places the Holy Spirit of Jesus in them... UNIFY all holy people in ONE Spirit.... Ephesians 4.

It is defenately not just a penticostal church show, it is truly a MIGHTY WORK OF GOD... that even Paul went to heaven... whetheer it was in the body or out the body, only God can tell.... but I am sure to go to be IN GOD AND JESUS, is DEFENATELY IN or OUT the body... what do you say IN OR OUT?

Are reborn people in or out the body IN GOD? I say they are out the body, and God in the body, if that body is still breathing!

How can I be in Christ and in my body? And how can Christ fill me with the Holy Spirit, if I am still here in my body? I am my spirit am I not. This body is only a vessel my spirit will use for a time.... Untill God baptize me with the Holy Spirit, then my spirit goes to God! ALREADY. Is this not what God means that we are hidden in God with Christ... Well the thief also went... TO GOD AND PARADISE AND HEAVENS RESTING PLACE... LAzarus and the rich man explains the two resting places.

We enter into God's SABBATH REST the moment we are baptized with Holy Spirit/reborn/ born of GOD!
 
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A

Ariel82

Guest
#22
I haven't heard. Please share.
Matthew 27:51-53 (New King James Version)


51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of
the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

and we have these verse we were studying in church today:

Matthew 22
31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?[c] God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”


implying that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not "dead" now but living.
 
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May 29, 2012
530
1
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#23
The dead will stay in the ground, but what of those of the firstfruits? They shall not see death.
 
T

Tan

Guest
#24
Here are some:

Jesus tells one dieing on a cross with Him, "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23.43. In Acts 7, Stephen asks the Lord to receive his spirit, so that he may dwell with him in heaven, "Stephen looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God...And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit" Acts 7.55,59 . My assumption is that after life in the flesh, we will dwell with Christ in spiritual heaven.


Paul says that the souls of the saints go to heaven when he says, "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord" (2nd Corinthians 5.6-8. He describes that upon death, he and his fellow servants would return to the Lord absent their bodies.

Pauls letter to the Philippians, "But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better" (Philippians 1.22-23.

If the souls of the redeemed don't go to heaven when they die, then how would one read in Revelation 6, "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled"
Remember this is before the resurrection and final judgement Paul talks about in 1 cor 15. Because Paul say after the resurection is judgement and the eternal state with glorified bodies.


(Revelation 6.9-11 How could God's servants be depicted as crying out in the temple of the Lord, unless they are present with him in heaven?


You quoting different situation in which the has not mention one time that people go to heaven where the Lord is right now. In fact Paul said in Acts 13: 22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. Now David is a man after God own heart, this is very important, because it bring us to the next verse....lets go to Acts 2: 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

David would of definitely been in heaven where the Lord is if that was the case. But Jesus said in John 6: 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Jesus said this four times for a reason. Once we know what is in the Bible, then we no what’s not.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#25
Tan, I got my answer on the dead from this scripture... Luke 16... There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Some people believe this to be a parable, but it is not... Jesus did not say this was a parable and He also never used names in other parables... These were two men the lived before, and these were their destanies. One went to the heaven holding room, and the other to hells waiting room. Also note that NEITHER will make contact with the living! There is quite a bit of information to take in here.

The best lesson on the dead.... Jesus said let the dead take care of their own, we should follow Him ,and care for the living!
If this is not a parable then what about those who died in Christ before Abraham?
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#26
Tan, I got my answer on the dead from this scripture... Luke 16... There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Some people believe this to be a parable, but it is not... Jesus did not say this was a parable and He also never used names in other parables... These were two men the lived before, and these were their destanies. One went to the heaven holding room, and the other to hells waiting room. Also note that NEITHER will make contact with the living! There is quite a bit of information to take in here.

The best lesson on the dead.... Jesus said let the dead take care of their own, we should follow Him ,and care for the living!
If the story is real then Jesus would have contradicted himself when he said that people are rewarded when he returns.
Matthew 16:27
(27) for the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and
then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 25:31-33
(31)
when the son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
(32) and before him shall be gathered all nations: and
he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
(33) and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Matthew 25:34
(34) then shall the king say unto them on his right hand, come, ye blessed of my father,
inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:41
(41) then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 22:12
(12) and, behold, i come quickly; and
my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#27
Matthew 27:51-53 (New King James Version)


51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of
the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

and we have these verse we were studying in church today:

Matthew 22
31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?[c] God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”


implying that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not "dead" now but living.
The people who came out of the graves came out with a real body just like Christ had a real body after His resurrection.

Matt 22:31 even though a person has died in God's eyes they are not forgotten. To Him He sees them as alive even though they are dead and know nothing.
 
May 29, 2012
530
1
0
#28
The people who came out of the graves came out with a real body just like Christ had a real body after His resurrection.

Matt 22:31 even though a person has died in God's eyes they are not forgotten. To Him He sees them as alive even though they are dead and know nothing.
Where are they now?
 
B

babyboyblue

Guest
#31
Those verses are miss understood, because Jesus was in the grave for three days and three night. So those theives are not in paradise. Jesus said in Matthew 12: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. So lets take a look at something else that happen, after Jesus came out of the grave. Lets go into John 20: 9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead. This still goes on today! Lets skip down to verse 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. So Jesus didn't just go straight to heaven, Jesus gave a little message, before ascending to heaven. These are the thing people pay no attention to, and cause a lot of confusion, and error in the word of God!

Exactly. Agreed.
 
Sep 13, 2012
619
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#32
since God controls all time, and he is independent of time, what makes you think to those in heaven the resurrection hast already happened? why do people think they are in the same time we are? time there has no meaning.
 
B

babyboyblue

Guest
#33
Matthew 27:51-53 (New King James Version)


51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of
the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

and we have these verse we were studying in church today:

Matthew 22
31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?[c] God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”


implying that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not "dead" now but living.


Thanks but this doesn't say everyone who dies goes to heaven. In fact it doesn't say that those who were resurrected went to Heaven. Just that they arose from the grave. Don't get me wrong, I believe they did go to Heaven but in no way can that be regarded as proof that everyone who dies goes to Heaven.

How is Matthew 22 an indication that those fine gentlemen are now in Heaven? Even if it was, this still cannot be regarded as proof that everyone who dies goes to Heaven (or Hell). Scripture tells us, in the last day Jesus will come and the dead in Christ shall rise. No need to raise people who are already in Heaven.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,312
1,039
113
#34
Preachers are miss leading people into believing fantasy stories. People go to grave talking to dirt and statutes, buying flowers, wasting time and money. People believing that they love ones are looking down on them smiling, with all this hell going on in earth. All these fill good stories and know truth, look at the people on this forum defending this! Pay attention to it.
If it comforts people to visit the graves of loved ones, then I dont see a problem with it.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#35
Those that rose out of the grave with "a body just like Jesus".
They went to heaven with Jesus but, notice it does not say all the saints arose. David according to Acts 2:29 is still in the grave.
 
May 29, 2012
530
1
0
#36
They went to heaven with Jesus but, notice it does not say all the saints arose. David according to Acts 2:29 is still in the grave.

That maybe true. Only the redeemed are now. The rest wait until jubilee.
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#37
They went to heaven with Jesus but, notice it does not say all the saints arose. David according to Acts 2:29 is still in the grave.
David's body remains in the ground until Jesus comes again...

...but, not David, His Spirit walks with God now, he who is of Holy Spirit who becomes of us as we let Him lead our life. The Lord leads.

Isaiah 42:5 is one good verse that explains our spirit is a lot more than.just 'breath' in.meaning, it is Him in us, us in Him, abiding, walking, being, and, there is no desertion of God from us, who speaks a lot more than just earthly when He says He will be with us always, lo, even to the end of the age as well as well as 'I will never leave you nor forsake you,' referring to earthly AND heavenly existence :)

Isaiah 42:5 King James Version (KJV)

5 Thus saith God the LORD,he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein.
 

duewell

Senior Member
Mar 5, 2011
350
9
18
#38
and God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. so that who ever believes in him will not die but have eternal life.

duewell
mark 4 v 11-13
 
T

Tan

Guest
#39
If it comforts people to visit the graves of loved ones, then I dont see a problem with it.
Well, lets see if Jesus feel the same way you do. Lets go into Matthew 8: 21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. If a person die right in the Lord, then you should rejoice, and hope you die right in the Lord. People take death to far, to much money death like every thing else. Jesus said in Matthew 7: 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
 
T

Tan

Guest
#40
Tan? What makes God the Father and Jesus the Son ONE? Can Jesus and Father God be so ONE that when Jesus says to the thief on the cross.... Tonight you will be with me in paradise... That the thief would be with ALL the Holy ONES, as all holy people ARE PERFECTLY ONE as God and Jesus are ONE... John 17... All holy people are ONE because of the ONE HOLY SPIRIT in them all. And Jesus is in them ALL! And they are in Jesus. But Jesus is in God and God in Him.... That ONE HOLY SPIRIT. Kingdom/heaven/God/Jesus/holy people/ angels/ and all SAVED PEOPLE are ALL IN THE HOLY SPIRIT. In Jesus and in paradise. This thief on the cross was destined to be in the holy resting place, and that is ALSO IN HOLY SPIRIT... So yep. Jesus in Holy Spirit went to the heart of the earth, and the thief went to the resting place ALSO in the Holy Spirit, In heaven paradise and in God!

Read John chapter 17, and see how Jesus prayed that Father will do this ALL IN ONE! That they might be where Jesus are, even though they walk still here... Try to see how Jesus swop spirit with the holy people... John chapter 17. Jesus takes their washed spirits to God, and God places the Holy Spirit of Jesus in them... UNIFY all holy people in ONE Spirit.... Ephesians 4.

It is defenately not just a penticostal church show, it is truly a MIGHTY WORK OF GOD... that even Paul went to heaven... whetheer it was in the body or out the body, only God can tell.... but I am sure to go to be IN GOD AND JESUS, is DEFENATELY IN or OUT the body... what do you say IN OR OUT?

Are reborn people in or out the body IN GOD? I say they are out the body, and God in the body, if that body is still breathing!

How can I be in Christ and in my body? And how can Christ fill me with the Holy Spirit, if I am still here in my body? I am my spirit am I not. This body is only a vessel my spirit will use for a time.... Untill God baptize me with the Holy Spirit, then my spirit goes to God! ALREADY. Is this not what God means that we are hidden in God with Christ... Well the thief also went... TO GOD AND PARADISE AND HEAVENS RESTING PLACE... LAzarus and the rich man explains the two resting places.

We enter into God's SABBATH REST the moment we are baptized with Holy Spirit/reborn/ born of GOD!

I see you ask me a question then decide to answer it youself...of course the wrong way. The problem I see with you is that you are lacking a lot of undertstanding and knowledge. I don't think you are going to find Bible scriptures to support your mindset.
I'll try and straighten out some of the things you are talking about.


Tan? What makes God the Father and Jesus the Son ONE?


Lets go to Phillippians 2: 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

There more to explain on this, but because you jam so much together that you have gotten yourself all twisted up in false doctrine. Lets take a look in how the Lord system operate. Revelation 1: 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

So God (Father) gave the word to Jesus, and Jesus gaves the word to the angel, and the angel, gaves the word to man. This is how the system works, except when Jesus was here, because there was know need for the Holy Ghost. Jesus said in John 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. So if a person do not know anything the Holy Ghost can't bring things to people remembrance and will not be able to teach, this is why you have a problem in understanding how thing work in the Lord. You have to be taught this word of God, keeping the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (saturday). This is people main error in the Lord.