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Thread: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

  1. #61
    marianna
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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by 777Yeshua777 View Post
    The faith was hijacked in 321AD.
    I don't think so. Everything is proceeding exactly according to my my Father's Plan.

    The Great Commission

    16But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” - Matthew 28

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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenNnice View Post
    Is that all you got ? Laod?
    Are you saying the Bible is not enough?
    Proverbs 6:23 KJV
    (23) For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:




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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    This is like debating which half of your sandwhich you are going to eat first. Doesnt matter, just enjoy your sandwhich.
    It may be a sandwich to you. But it matters to others Dude. I know you dont understand how it
    matters, but it does. And those it does matter to it matters alot. But like i said, i understand to you
    it doesnt, but it may someday.
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Senior Member Laodicea's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Abiding View Post
    This statement is absurd. How can you compare eternal death..to life after redemption and physical death? Really? This flies in the face of Jesus teachings. Pretty sloppy..maybe you could rewrite this and reword it.
    And explain what it means. ty

    Also you asked for references yet gave no comment...but one answers the other. May have just as well said mary had a little lamb.
    Did satan tell the truth to eve regarding death or tell a lie? Yes or no?
    Proverbs 6:23 KJV
    (23) For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:




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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Laodicea View Post
    Genesis 3:3-4
    (3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
    (4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


    The terrible doctrine of life after death was originally taught by Satan and is believed by many Christians.
    My response was for this. The devil said simply they would never die.
    You say about that that a terrible doctrine of life after death was originally taught by Satan.
    And is, you say, believed by many Christians. (im supposing this is related to the op and your saying
    folks who think there are believers souls in heaven are believing a doctrine originated by satan)

    Im saying...you didnt get that from Genesis 3:3-4 because life after death wasnt mentioned at all by satan.
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Senior Member GreenNnice's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Abiding View Post
    My response was for this. The devil said simply they would never die.
    You say about that that a terrible doctrine of life after death was originally taught by Satan.
    And is, you say, believed by many Christians. (im supposing this is related to the op and your saying
    folks who think there are believers souls in heaven are believing a doctrine originated by satan)

    Im saying...you didnt get that from Genesis 3:3-4 because life after death wasnt mentioned at all by satan.
    See, squirrel, 'wisdom,'

    ()()()()()()())(()
    Laod, by, 'Is that all you got,' it is saying your Scripture is weak, and, abiding , he just let this Truth of living , and, not dying, as Satan said too, be known, for we all low that paradise was, indeed, lost, and, Adam, for one didn't die until he was over 900 years old, if I recall correctly. Life is a blessing by God and Adam lived a quite long , healthy one .
    Without God, we have nothing. With Him, we have everything we ever need, and, more.

    Is compassion compassion at all if it's not based on the Truth ?

    The Holy Spirit leads ALL believers lives, wants to. Are you letting Him lead yours ?

    God bless your days !

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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenNnice View Post
    See, squirrel, 'wisdom,'

    ()()()()()()())(()
    Laod, by, 'Is that all you got,' it is saying your Scripture is weak, and, abiding , he just let this Truth of living , and, not dying, as Satan said too, be known, for we all low that paradise was, indeed, lost, and, Adam, for one didn't die until he was over 900 years old, if I recall correctly. Life is a blessing by God and Adam lived a quite long , healthy one .
    I believe Adam and Eve instantly died im sure youd agree.
    Physically no...that took awhile. They died the very day they
    ate, and lost their immortality and access to the Lord.
    Some say their spirit degenerated..therefore their inner self
    took over without regard to the Lord. Leaving them helplessly
    to their own selfish lusts.Im ok with that.
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Another rebuttal to the soul sleep doctrine, Stephen's martyr:

    Acts 7:59-60
    59And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

    Just want Jesus said after His death

    60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.


    "Asleep" is just a metaphor for our bodies being dead.
    2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say, and may the Lord give you understanding in all things.

    End Times According to the Bible

    "
    In bestowing grace, God never rescinds His claims upon us, but rather enables us to meet them. Was the prodigal son, after his penitential return and forgiveness, less obliged to conform to the laws of his Father’s house than before he left it? No indeed, but more so." A.W. Pink

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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Bookends View Post
    Another rebuttal to the soul sleep doctrine, Stephen's martyr:

    Acts 7:59-60
    59And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

    Just want Jesus said after His death

    60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.


    "Asleep" is just a metaphor for our bodies being dead.
    Hey wait up your running way ahead
    GreenNnice likes this.
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

  10. #70
    Senior Member GreenNnice's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Abiding View Post
    I believe Adam and Eve instantly died im sure youd agree.
    Physically no...that took awhile. They died the very day they
    ate, and lost their immortality and access to the Lord.
    Some say their spirit degenerated..therefore their inner self
    took over without regard to the Lord. Leaving them helplessly
    to their own selfish lusts.Im ok with that.
    THEY surely didn't die physically after eating of fruit, and, no, not spiritually neither, for Eve is said to have said something to effect of, 'God saw my sorrow for Abel being taken and has blessed me with another child (seth) from forth my womb.'

    Again, you can find exact verse but keywords of God , Eve, Seth and, blessed/given all in the verse .

    Adam nor Eve died a spiritual or physical death, they just 'fell,' and were expelled from the garden of Eden.
    Without God, we have nothing. With Him, we have everything we ever need, and, more.

    Is compassion compassion at all if it's not based on the Truth ?

    The Holy Spirit leads ALL believers lives, wants to. Are you letting Him lead yours ?

    God bless your days !

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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenNnice View Post
    THEY surely didn't die physically after eating of fruit, and, no, not spiritually neither, for Eve is said to have said something to effect of, 'God saw my sorrow for Abel being taken and has blessed me with another child (seth) from forth my womb.'

    Again, you can find exact verse but keywords of God , Eve, Seth and, blessed/given all in the verse .

    Adam nor Eve died a spiritual or physical death, they just 'fell,' and were expelled from the garden of Eden.
    We havnt a choice greenie..The word of God plainly said the "day" you eat you "die"
    Since you have already stated they lived on far past that day...we havnt many
    choices...their soul didnt die. Not sure what Eve having Seth has to do with this.

    Their Spirit that gave them immortality ...which is what Jesus gives us 2 tim 1:10
    And what the resurection will bring to our bodies, that has the life and nature of God
    Who only has immortality 1tim 6:16 of which it takes to be in His presence as Adam and Eve
    did until they sinned.

    See the Spirit in them is what went and is what is restored ! Cor 15
    Why do you think God said noone can see Him and live? We will See Him in our immortality
    our new Spiritual bodies.
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Abiding View Post
    Here are some:

    Jesus tells one dieing on a cross with Him, "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23.43. In Acts 7, Stephen asks the Lord to receive his spirit, so that he may dwell with him in heaven, "Stephen looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God...And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit" Acts 7.55,59 . My assumption is that after life in the flesh, we will dwell with Christ in spiritual heaven.


    Paul says that the souls of the saints go to heaven when he says, "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord" (2nd Corinthians 5.6-8. He describes that upon death, he and his fellow servants would return to the Lord absent their bodies.

    Pauls letter to the Philippians, "But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better" (Philippians 1.22-23.

    If the souls of the redeemed don't go to heaven when they die, then how would one read in Revelation 6, "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled"
    Remember this is before the resurrection and final judgement Paul talks about in 1 cor 15. Because Paul say after the resurection is judgement and the eternal state with glorified bodies.


    (Revelation 6.9-11 How could God's servants be depicted as crying out in the temple of the Lord, unless they are present with him in heaven?

    The only point Paul was driving at was he would rather be in Heaven with God than to live on this earth and frankly so would I. In no way was he insinuating that as soon as you die you're off to Heaven.

    Regarding Revelation 6, do you think this is literal? Do you honestly believe there are literal seals being opened in Heaven? Do you really believe there are people under an altar asking God to hurry up and avenge them? Is this the attitude of the Christian? "God they slew me, go kill them!" Those "souls" under the Altar have a character comparable to Christ. How do we know, because it says they were slain for the testimony of God's word. When Christ was on the cross dying, He said "Father Forgive them" not "Father go kill them". It's all prophetically symbolic to help us understand the times, not to determine if you go straight to Heaven or Hell.

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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    [QUOTE=babyboyblue;808616]The only point Paul was driving at was he would rather be in Heaven with God than to live on this earth and frankly so would I. In no way was he insinuating that as soon as you die you're off to Heaven.

    Regarding Revelation 6, do you think this is literal? Do you honestly believe there are literal seals being opened in Heaven? Do you really believe there are people under an altar asking God to hurry up and avenge them? Is this the attitude of the Christian? "God they slew me, go kill them!" Those "souls" under the Altar have a character comparable to Christ. How do we know, because it says they were slain for the testimony of God's word. When Christ was on the cross dying, He said "Father Forgive them" not "Father go kill them". It's all prophetically symbolic to help us understand the times, not to determine if you go straight to Heaven or Hell.[/QUOTE
    `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````````
    `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````````
    Ok ill think on that. I totally agree it isnt enuf to build doctrine on. I also agree that
    Ive not studied it all out for its symbolic quality...while it lies in a book that mostly symbolic.
    But i still cant chuck it and say it has no value in the area of souls alive and well.
    Your argument concerning their attitude doesnt carry much weight tho as far as a
    improper attitude for a Christian....Christ Himself is getting ready to do the very
    thing He is being asked about.

    And Paul saying to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Does not
    sound like an obscure verse i can just ignore either. It takes alot of dancing to get around.
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Abiding View Post
    Ok ill think on that. I totally agree it isnt enuf to build doctrine on. I also agree that
    Ive not studied it all out for its symbolic quality...while it lies in a book that mostly symbolic.
    But i still cant chuck it and say it has no value in the area of souls alive and well.
    Your argument concerning their attitude doesnt carry much weight tho as far as a
    improper attitude for a Christian....Christ Himself is getting ready to do the very
    thing He is being asked about.

    And Paul saying to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Does not
    sound like an obscure verse i can just ignore either. It takes alot of dancing to get around.

    Please don't chuck any of it out. Consider it all, but please keep it in its context. Remember we're to compare "...precept upon precept; line upon line...here a little, and there a little:"

    The Bible does Not contradict itself. It would be a huge contradiction if when a person dies they went straight to Heaven or Hell and then Jesus comes along and says He will raise up saints in the Last Day.

    The bible says:

    The dead knows nothing
    There's no reward for them
    Their memory is forgotten
    They do not praise the Lord
    They do not return to their home
    Their family come to visit them and they don't know

    I don't know how much clearer the bible can be. A person dies, goes in the grave and waits one of two resurrections. Why is that difficult to believe or understand?
    Laodicea likes this.

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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Abiding View Post
    My response was for this. The devil said simply they would never die.
    You say about that that a terrible doctrine of life after death was originally taught by Satan.
    And is, you say, believed by many Christians. (im supposing this is related to the op and your saying
    folks who think there are believers souls in heaven are believing a doctrine originated by satan)

    Im saying...you didnt get that from Genesis 3:3-4 because life after death wasnt mentioned at all by satan.
    God said this
    Genesis 2:16-17
    (16) And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
    (17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Satan said this
    Genesis 3:3-4
    (3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
    (4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

    Who told the truth?

    Proverbs 6:23 KJV
    (23) For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:




  16. #76


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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Abiding View Post
    Yes i see that..and that just makes my point. Read a few more times please.
    What im saying is that "souls" are in heaven before the bodily ressurrection.
    Its always good to ask question, Brothers and sisters I want to touch on the saints being in heaven with Jesus.

    Let’s start this off in acts 1: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven

    Now let us take a look at Jesus, beginning descent. Let’s go to Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory


    Lets get another look at it in, Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Now in Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    At this point, notice in verse 15, these people trying to hide from the Lord, maybe they should be trying to repent or maybe its to late. Remind you that the Lord haven’t descend yet, he just sitting
    in heaven looking at them.

    Now lets bring the Lord down...1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Now lets make some sense out of this, Verse 16. There a few thing going on in this verse ok, so Let’s take it step by step. Now descend, meaning coming down, I don’t think their any dispute
    about descend, right. Heres the good parts (Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
    and with the trump).

    Let’s look at that trump....1Corinthians 15: 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    This is totally physical

    Let’s go to Isaiah 27:12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye
    children of Israel. (future) 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem (future)

    Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

    Now let’s go to the part when he say, (and the dead in Christ shall rise first). The dead in Christ are those who keep his commandment, let’s take a look.

    Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
    and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

    Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    Let’s take a look at, what Jobs said about being dead and being raise, let go to the book of Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. 14:13 Oh that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 14:15 Thou shalt call and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

    Now lets break down 1Thessalonians verse 17, (Then we which are alive and remain), ok now we read that the trump will blow and the Lord will raise up the saint first, ok .

    Now lets look at the other part, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: Now the Lord is descending from heaven, and the trump is blown, the dead which is alive now from the earth is raise to meet the Lord in the air. (Very physical) so if you are all the way west and I am all the way east and I call you and say meet me half way, then we’re both coming from to different direction to meet, make sense.

    Now lets go and see where Lord coming down at...Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    Lets not forget those saints now, verse 5, 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

    At this point brothers and sisters the lord is with the saints and they are on the earth. Theres no where in the BIble where is states that the saint and the lord are going back to heaven where Jesus came from to judge the earth sitting on thrones...no where in the Bible. Lets take time and read brothers and sisters.
    Last edited by Tan; October 17th, 2012 at 02:46 PM.

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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenNnice View Post
    The day of the Sabbath is between you and God, Tanone.
    Never forget that, Christ peeps, anything said less, and, of sabbath's time requirement for salvation, nor evento, its WORKS requirement for salvation, is FALSELY preaching to you, for the Spirit, through His Word, wholly leads each one of us inbour lives purely individually, right on down to how and when we, in Him, will DO our 'rest.'
    The day of Sabbath is between God and the World, but first starts with Israel (jews) then the rest of the sons of Adam. In the scriptures its written in the future in Isaiah 56: 1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
    3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

    Paul said in Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Tan View Post
    Its always good to ask question, Brothers and sisters I want to touch on the saints being in heaven with Jesus.

    Let’s start this off in acts 1: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven

    Now let us take a look at Jesus, beginning descent. Let’s go to Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory


    Lets get another look at it in, Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Now in Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    At this point, notice in verse 15, these people trying to hide from the Lord, maybe they should be trying to repent or maybe its to late. Remind you that the Lord haven’t descend yet, he just sitting
    in heaven looking at them.

    Now lets bring the Lord down...1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Now lets make some sense out of this, Verse 16. There a few thing going on in this verse ok, so Let’s take it step by step. Now descend, meaning coming down, I don’t think their any dispute
    about descend, right. Heres the good parts (Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
    and with the trump).

    Let’s look at that trump....1Corinthians 15: 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    This is totally physical

    Let’s go to Isaiah 27:12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye
    children of Israel. (future) 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem (future)

    Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

    Now let’s go to the part when he say, (and the dead in Christ shall rise first). The dead in Christ are those who keep his commandment, let’s take a look.

    Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
    and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

    Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    Let’s take a look at, what Jobs said about being dead and being raise, let go to the book of Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. 14:13 Oh that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 14:15 Thou shalt call and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

    Now lets break down 1Thessalonians verse 17, (Then we which are alive and remain), ok now we read that the trump will blow and the Lord will raise up the saint first, ok .

    Now lets look at the other part, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: Now the Lord is descending from heaven, and the trump is blown, the dead which is alive now from the earth is raise to meet the Lord in the air. (Very physical) so if you are all the way west and I am all the way east and I call you and say meet me half way, then we’re both coming from to different direction to meet, make sense.

    Now lets go and see where Lord coming down at...Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    Lets not forget those saints now, verse 5, 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

    At this point brothers and sisters the lord is with the saints and they are on the earth. Theres no where in the BIble where is states that the saint and the lord are going back to heaven where Jesus came from to judge the earth sitting on thrones...no where in the Bible. Lets take time and read brothers and sisters.
    Not sure its a chatsite rule....but its traditional to provide a link when you cut and paste from a site, or from someone elses work.
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Abiding View Post
    Not sure its a chatsite rule....but its traditional to provide a link when you cut and paste from a site, or from someone elses work.

    I copy and paste, but it was from another Christian website site I answers on. So I copy and paste from myself. Not sure why that is a big deal. In the scriptures it written in Proverbs 9: 8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. 9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.


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    Default Re: The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

    Let's check out a few more Psalm.
    Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
    Was that hard to understand? No. If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm.
    Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
    This verse clarifies the 6th Psalm. David and Solomon are consistent. Let's go to another Prophet, the Prophet Isaiah and see what he has to say about this subject.

    Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
    19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.
    The Prophet Isaiah confirmed what David and Solomon said. "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth". Does anything else need to be said? This is very clear. Look at verse 19. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth. While you are alive you can praise the Lord. Let’s go to the Prophet Job and see if he knows anything about this subject.

    Job 14:1 Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.
    2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
    Remember what Solomon said? Let's take another look. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. Job said basically, "Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble". Each day you walk with God there is a war going on within your mind. Trying your best to keep this flesh body under control, trying to walk in the Lord's law, that is the trouble you encounter. If some one says it is easy that's a lie. You must walk in his power (His Word), to stay strong. You have a powerful adversary, and who is that? You. Pay close attention!
    Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
    11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
    12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

    What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth. Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When David said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about. Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised. Look like the Prophets and the Apostles are consistent. We move to the book of Revelation. This set of verses may sound contradictory, and if they are, we might as well throw the Bible out the back door. So far we have found out that the dead are still in the grave, they have no thoughts, no wisdom and knowledge. We also found that the heavens will be no more. Pay very close attention to John, he's letting you know something very important. Once you understand what he is saying there is no contradiction

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