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G
Aren't we to dress in the white robes, isn't this the wedding feast parable meaning?
Anyway, off topic, but, the 144,000, webchatterer are the 'elect' of Israel,' a bit confusing IF one gets it confused with the verse that the anti-christ will even try to deceive 'the elect' of another verse and this 'elect,' is not some God-chosen people, they are simply higher ups in the Kingdom of God, gifts wise, like in administration, pastoring, perceiving, exhorting, and, are highly good at what they do. People of gifts in this way are that 'elect,' and the 144,000 is the Jews who will be raised up according to Revelation chapter 9 ? I think it is. They are nothing special either, just those that God will use to help others, I mean, nothing special in the sense that their is NO only this group goes to Heaven. Many more than 144,000 will go to heaven . I think the Revelation # of the 8 billion on earth, I think it's , depending on your belief in the post- living (eschatology) , there will be 1/3 that are toast pretty quickly after Jesus comes again, so that means we are immediately down to 5-6 million. And, then there will be other stuff that happens. Anyway, the Lord knows all, and,. the road is narrow, indeed, but 144,000 out of 8 million make it to Heaven? No , God does not say that in any way, shape or form, as I see it.
The Lord leads (me , this I hope and pray always )
Anyway, off topic, but, the 144,000, webchatterer are the 'elect' of Israel,' a bit confusing IF one gets it confused with the verse that the anti-christ will even try to deceive 'the elect' of another verse and this 'elect,' is not some God-chosen people, they are simply higher ups in the Kingdom of God, gifts wise, like in administration, pastoring, perceiving, exhorting, and, are highly good at what they do. People of gifts in this way are that 'elect,' and the 144,000 is the Jews who will be raised up according to Revelation chapter 9 ? I think it is. They are nothing special either, just those that God will use to help others, I mean, nothing special in the sense that their is NO only this group goes to Heaven. Many more than 144,000 will go to heaven . I think the Revelation # of the 8 billion on earth, I think it's , depending on your belief in the post- living (eschatology) , there will be 1/3 that are toast pretty quickly after Jesus comes again, so that means we are immediately down to 5-6 million. And, then there will be other stuff that happens. Anyway, the Lord knows all, and,. the road is narrow, indeed, but 144,000 out of 8 million make it to Heaven? No , God does not say that in any way, shape or form, as I see it.
The Lord leads (me , this I hope and pray always )
T
Now, let us go into Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Look at what John said, "I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God. These people must be in heaven, right? (Next verse)
Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
They were talking to the Lord. (Next verse)
Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
These people were told by the Lord, rest a little season. They must be in heaven? (Next)
Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Notice something, The sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood, and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together. This is the same thing David, Paul, and now John said. This must be true. What about the souls under the altar? Let's see if we can find an example. Pay close attention here.
Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. Cain didn't bring the best that he had, if he did the Lord would have accepted Cain's offering.
Genesis 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Notice something, If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted. Remember the people in Revelation. Did they do well? Were they accepted? Yes. Now look at what the Lord says here.
Genesis 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
What did the Lord say in verse 7? "If thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. Cain committed 2 sins, murder and baring false wittiness. These verses alone let you know that the law was in effect from the beginning. Notice this in the next verse.
Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
When is the last time you heard someone's blood cry? Blood doesn't cry. It wasn't the blood that was crying, it was Abel's righteous acts. Notice this in Revelation. , I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: These people were slain for the word of God, and the testimony that they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Notice it said our blood. Here is the key. What were these people given for their testimony?
Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
They were given white robes. What does this mean? Let's let the Book tell us.
Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
You see it was their righteousness that cried unto the Lord . Look what Paul said.
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
That was your second witness.
Look at what John said, "I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God. These people must be in heaven, right? (Next verse)
Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
They were talking to the Lord. (Next verse)
Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
These people were told by the Lord, rest a little season. They must be in heaven? (Next)
Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Notice something, The sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood, and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together. This is the same thing David, Paul, and now John said. This must be true. What about the souls under the altar? Let's see if we can find an example. Pay close attention here.
Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. Cain didn't bring the best that he had, if he did the Lord would have accepted Cain's offering.
Genesis 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Notice something, If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted. Remember the people in Revelation. Did they do well? Were they accepted? Yes. Now look at what the Lord says here.
Genesis 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
What did the Lord say in verse 7? "If thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. Cain committed 2 sins, murder and baring false wittiness. These verses alone let you know that the law was in effect from the beginning. Notice this in the next verse.
Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
When is the last time you heard someone's blood cry? Blood doesn't cry. It wasn't the blood that was crying, it was Abel's righteous acts. Notice this in Revelation. , I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: These people were slain for the word of God, and the testimony that they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Notice it said our blood. Here is the key. What were these people given for their testimony?
Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
They were given white robes. What does this mean? Let's let the Book tell us.
Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
You see it was their righteousness that cried unto the Lord . Look what Paul said.
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
That was your second witness.
W
Shalom Tan and All: In Philippians 1:21-24 Paul speaks of physical death as something to be gained...at death he will depart and be with Messiah.
2Corinthians 5:8...to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Master.
Messiah Yahusha said in John 11:26....those believeing in Me will never die. Believest thou this?
When we die our spirits return to the Heavenly Father...the body goes to the grave and turns to dust, which has no memory or knows nothing.
2Corinthians 5:8...to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Master.
Messiah Yahusha said in John 11:26....those believeing in Me will never die. Believest thou this?
When we die our spirits return to the Heavenly Father...the body goes to the grave and turns to dust, which has no memory or knows nothing.
T
Here is another example.
Proverbs 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
Let her own works praise her. By your actions you will obtain eternal life.
In Luke, the Scribes came to Jesus trying to trip Him up, by asking Him a question. Custom was that if a man die before he had an offspring, his brother would marry his wife and the first born would carry on his brother's name. They gave Jesus an example of a woman that married seven brothers, the first to the last did not have an offspring and finally the woman died. They asked Jesus who would be this woman's husband in the resurrection. Notice what the Lord said here.
Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses showed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
Look at verse 35, But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage. He said again as Paul, and John said. Those that are accounted worthy to obtain the world. It goes back to the righteous acts. Notice verse 36,"Now that the dead are raised". The subject is the resurrection, he was giving them and example.
Proverbs 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
Let her own works praise her. By your actions you will obtain eternal life.
In Luke, the Scribes came to Jesus trying to trip Him up, by asking Him a question. Custom was that if a man die before he had an offspring, his brother would marry his wife and the first born would carry on his brother's name. They gave Jesus an example of a woman that married seven brothers, the first to the last did not have an offspring and finally the woman died. They asked Jesus who would be this woman's husband in the resurrection. Notice what the Lord said here.
Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses showed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
Look at verse 35, But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage. He said again as Paul, and John said. Those that are accounted worthy to obtain the world. It goes back to the righteous acts. Notice verse 36,"Now that the dead are raised". The subject is the resurrection, he was giving them and example.
C
I don't belive in soul sleep, but this can't be used, I've seen translations with the comma places after the word today, that ,plus, Jesus didn't go to heaven that day, he died and preached to the spirits in prison(1 peter 3:19), so, that's the place the comma should be, after the word today. I don't belive in soul sleep though, based on other passages(like Elijah and Moses with Jesus at the transfiguration)
T
I agree with you where the common should and that Jesus didn't go straight to heaven. Jesus did preach to the angles or spirits, but it was in the days on Noah, not when Jesus was on the cross. Lets take a full look at it in...1Peter 3: 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Jesus said in Matthew 12: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Jesus was in the grave brother and sisters, for three days and three nights. So lets take a look at something else that happen, after Jesus came out of the grave. Lets go into John 20: 9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead. This still goes on today, people not know the scriptures! Lets skip down to verse 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. So Jesus did not just go straight to heaven, Jesus gave a little message, before ascending to heaven
Jesus said in Matthew 12: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Jesus was in the grave brother and sisters, for three days and three nights. So lets take a look at something else that happen, after Jesus came out of the grave. Lets go into John 20: 9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead. This still goes on today, people not know the scriptures! Lets skip down to verse 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. So Jesus did not just go straight to heaven, Jesus gave a little message, before ascending to heaven
T
This is a place where people try to say, "See I told you when you die you float off into heaven". They make this statement without thinking. Why? If a person dies and goes to heaven or hell what is the use for the first or second resurrection, if that statement was true they have all ready been raised and judged. It would be no use for either of these. Read this carefully.
I Samuel 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
What is a familiar spirit?
I Samuel 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
Why did she "say bring up?" Samuel was a righteous guy, shouldn't she have said, Whom should I bring down?
I Samuel 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
Notice what she said, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. Shouldn't they be coming down from heaven?
I Samuel 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
If the Lord would not answer Saul why would Samuel?
16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.
19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
Was this actually Samuel speaking to Saul through this witch? Once again let's let the Bible speak for itself.
I Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it;
You see, the Book never contradicts itself. Samuel is in the grave until the first resurrection, along with the other righteous brethren. It was a familiar spirit that spoke through the witch; Saul done himself in.
I Samuel 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
What is a familiar spirit?
I Samuel 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
Why did she "say bring up?" Samuel was a righteous guy, shouldn't she have said, Whom should I bring down?
I Samuel 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
Notice what she said, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. Shouldn't they be coming down from heaven?
I Samuel 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
If the Lord would not answer Saul why would Samuel?
16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.
19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
Was this actually Samuel speaking to Saul through this witch? Once again let's let the Bible speak for itself.
I Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it;
You see, the Book never contradicts itself. Samuel is in the grave until the first resurrection, along with the other righteous brethren. It was a familiar spirit that spoke through the witch; Saul done himself in.