The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

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T

Tan

Guest
#1
When a person dies, does he or she have any consciousness? Does a puff of smoke leave their body and go flying off into the third heaven? Do you really believe your love ones looking down at you from heaven, smiling. Or do they just float around the earth hunting houses, jumping from behind trees scaring people? If you have a logical bone in your body you know that is sheer nonsense. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true" (John 8:17).

In (Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.)They received the law by the disposition of angels. Where did the angels get the word? (Revelation 1:1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John. The angels got it from the Lord. The Lord got it from the Father. The Prophets and the Apostle are simply quoting the Lord. If you don't believe them, you don't believe the Lord. Our first witness is Solomon. He is very wise, as a matter of fact he was wiser than any man that walked the earth. Why? I Kings 3:28And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment. I Kings 4:1 So king Solomon was king over all Israel. He had the wisdom of God. Let' see what Solomon has to say about this subject.
Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Take a look at what Solomon said. This event happened to us all while we are under the sun. Why did he say under the sun? We'll find this out later. Pay close attention here. The heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live. While they live. Then what happens after that? They go to the dead. No! Solomon said a mouth full, look at the next verse.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.








 
A

Abiding

Guest
#2
When a person dies, does he or she have any consciousness? Does a puff of smoke leave their body and go flying off into the third heaven? Do you really believe your love ones looking down at you from heaven, smiling. Or do they just float around the earth hunting houses, jumping from behind trees scaring people? If you have a logical bone in your body you know that is sheer nonsense. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true" (John 8:17).

In (Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.)They received the law by the disposition of angels. Where did the angels get the word? (Revelation 1:1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John. The angels got it from the Lord. The Lord got it from the Father. The Prophets and the Apostle are simply quoting the Lord. If you don't believe them, you don't believe the Lord. Our first witness is Solomon. He is very wise, as a matter of fact he was wiser than any man that walked the earth. Why? I Kings 3:28And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment. I Kings 4:1 So king Solomon was king over all Israel. He had the wisdom of God. Let' see what Solomon has to say about this subject.
Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Take a look at what Solomon said. This event happened to us all while we are under the sun. Why did he say under the sun? We'll find this out later. Pay close attention here. The heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live. While they live. Then what happens after that? They go to the dead. No! Solomon said a mouth full, look at the next verse.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.









Memo to Tan...since Jesus came things have progressed. Did you hear yet?
Our souls now go to heaven when we die...our bodies will be raised up and changed
at the resurrection.

What was true in Solomons days was true then..until Jesus rose from the dead and ascended.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,312
1,039
113
#3
Why does it matter?
 
B

babyboyblue

Guest
#4
Memo to Tan...since Jesus came things have progressed. Did you hear yet?
Our souls now go to heaven when we die...our bodies will be raised up and changed
at the resurrection.

I haven't heard. Please share.
 
T

TAZorek

Guest
#5
Luke 23-
42. Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
43. Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, TODAY you will be with me in paradise."
 
B

babyboyblue

Guest
#6
Luke 23-
42. Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
43. Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth TODAY, you will be with me in paradise."
 
M

MidnightSky

Guest
#7
I'm undecided in this area. The Bible seems to give mixed messages regarding what happens when we die.

Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

On the other hand though

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Phil 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Phil 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
Phil 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Phil 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Nevertheless, the Bible put's emphasis on the resurrection and not on the intermediate state.
 
Feb 17, 2010
3,620
27
0
#8
Tan, I got my answer on the dead from this scripture... Luke 16... There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Some people believe this to be a parable, but it is not... Jesus did not say this was a parable and He also never used names in other parables... These were two men the lived before, and these were their destanies. One went to the heaven holding room, and the other to hells waiting room. Also note that NEITHER will make contact with the living! There is quite a bit of information to take in here.

The best lesson on the dead.... Jesus said let the dead take care of their own, we should follow Him ,and care for the living!
 
B

babyboyblue

Guest
#9
I'm undecided in this area. The Bible seems to give mixed messages regarding what happens when we die.

Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

On the other hand though

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Phil 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Phil 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
Phil 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Phil 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Nevertheless, the Bible put's emphasis on the resurrection and not on the intermediate state.

Here's few more to add to your list:

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

There's a lot more. The Bible is clear, when a person dies, the two entities that consist of a living soul (breath of God or spirit + the body) separate. The breath of God, the life of the body or the spirit, goes back to God and the body with the conscience and mind and character and habits all go down into the grave and stay there until the Last day. It is at that time, those who have died in the Lord will receive the breath of life and be joined again with the body (glorified) with their conscience and mind and character and habits.

Those who did not die in the Lord, will have to wait to be resurrected at a later date. At that time, they will receive the breath of God and be joined again with the body (not glorified) with their conscience and mind and character and habits.
 
M

MidnightSky

Guest
#10
Luke 16 is unique in the fact that it mentions names but I still strongly suspect that it was a parable. The belief that we go into Abraham's bosom when we die was a tradition of the rabbis, and I cant help but think that Jesus was using this tradition against the Pharisees. I think maybe the rich man represented the Jews and Lazarus represented the gentiles.

You will notice that the rich man calls Abraham "father" and Abraham calls the rich man "son".

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

I also find it interesting that Lazarus laid at the rich mans gate and desired to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich mans table. This is very similar to the gentile women in Matthew 15.

Matt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matt 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Matt 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
Matt 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

Also, the rich man wanted Abraham to send someone from the dead to his brothers to warn them about the place he was in, but Abraham said, "And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

The Jews didn't believe on Jesus when he rose from the dead and they still remain in unbelief even to this very day.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#11
Hebrews 9:27

And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment,
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#12
I haven't heard. Please share.
Here are some:

Jesus tells one dieing on a cross with Him, "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23.43. In Acts 7, Stephen asks the Lord to receive his spirit, so that he may dwell with him in heaven, "Stephen looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God...And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit" Acts 7.55,59 . My assumption is that after life in the flesh, we will dwell with Christ in spiritual heaven.


Paul says that the souls of the saints go to heaven when he says, "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord" (2nd Corinthians 5.6-8. He describes that upon death, he and his fellow servants would return to the Lord absent their bodies.

Pauls letter to the Philippians, "But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better" (Philippians 1.22-23.

If the souls of the redeemed don't go to heaven when they die, then how would one read in Revelation 6, "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled"
Remember this is before the resurrection and final judgement Paul talks about in 1 cor 15. Because Paul say after the resurection is judgement and the eternal state with glorified bodies.


(Revelation 6.9-11 How could God's servants be depicted as crying out in the temple of the Lord, unless they are present with him in heaven?
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#13
Scruffy for president ! :)
 
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#15
I think heaven is the life the Lord gives us when we repent of our sin:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV
 
T

Tan

Guest
#16
Memo to Tan...since Jesus came things have progressed. Did you hear yet?
Our souls now go to heaven when we die...our bodies will be raised up and changed
at the resurrection.

What was true in Solomons days was true then..until Jesus rose from the dead and ascended.

I agree with you in that we will be raise up and changed, but our souls stay in the ground when we die, nothing has change with that. In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen 3:19) Every funeral bodies (souls) are put in the ground!
 
T

Tan

Guest
#17
Why does it matter?
Preachers are miss leading people into believing fantasy stories. People go to grave talking to dirt and statutes, buying flowers, wasting time and money. People believing that they love ones are looking down on them smiling, with all this hell going on in earth. All these fill good stories and know truth, look at the people on this forum defending this! Pay attention to it.
 
T

Tan

Guest
#19
Luke 23-
42. Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
43. Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth TODAY, you will be with me in paradise."
Those verses are miss understood, because Jesus was in the grave for three days and three night. So those theives are not in paradise. Jesus said in Matthew 12: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. So lets take a look at something else that happen, after Jesus came out of the grave. Lets go into John 20: 9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead. This still goes on today! Lets skip down to verse 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. So Jesus didn't just go straight to heaven, Jesus gave a little message, before ascending to heaven. These are the thing people pay no attention to, and cause a lot of confusion, and error in the word of God!
 
T

Tan

Guest
#20
I'm undecided in this area. The Bible seems to give mixed messages regarding what happens when we die.

Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

On the other hand though

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Phil 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Phil 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
Phil 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Phil 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Nevertheless, the Bible put's emphasis on the resurrection and not on the intermediate state.


Its good to see someone answer honestly; continue and read the lesson and ask question if you have them.