For those interested...
1 Corinthians 11:2
Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us.
There are plenty of NT references to Tradition. The above are just the easiest to see clear reference to. Jesus even fulfilled prophecy that existed only in Holy Tradition and was never found in Holy Scripture. Tradition and Scripture have always been authoritative, in Judaism and also Christianity. It wasn't until 1600s to the present that people began to ignore and eventually entirely reject Holy Tradition as having any authority.
Jesus spoke against bad tradition or traditions of men and never rejected Holy Tradition. The following is pre-resurrection of course but still, continuity is key to understanding that Christianity sees itself as the purest expression of Judaism. Catholics also believe that Christianity is the end of all religion. Sacramental theology is sorely misunderstood by protestants and they reduce their understanding of it to ritual and religion. Judaism and Christianity has been Sacramental (though differently) and liturgical since the beginning. Continuity is key:
Matthew 23:1-3 (New International Version)
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
To get a general but actual understanding of Holy Tradition vs tradition vs custom click on the following article titles:
On Holy Tradition
Paradosis and its Noetic Base: Towards a Spiritual Statement of Tradition in Orthodox Thought
Let This Mind Be In You
The Sources of Christian Doctrine
Following the Holy Fathers
Introduction to Humility
The Monastic Life
Some Remarks to a Priest Concerning Holy Tradition and Modernism
Commonly Misunderstood Terms
Dogmas and Opinions
General Rules for Distinguishing Truth From Error and Preserving the Faith
For those who are interested, clickeroo on the following article
Does Orthodoxy Really Think It Is the "True Church"?
The following CChat thread covers this topic:
A Refutation of Sola Scriptura
Paul calls himself Father in the bible. The Father issue is easy enough to find explanations for. Research. It's out there for those who verily verily want to look past the rhetoric and get a solid understanding on these issues.
On the Waldeneses...
Here too, this is easily enough understood. Research. Any person looking into these issues ought to go in objectively:
WIKI (just a general source but look into the issue if anyone wants to have an opinion with integrity)
Some researchers argue that the group has existed since the time of the apostles, a claim that is disputed by modern scholarship.[1] The supporters of the ancient origin claim the Waldenses' name does not in fact come from Peter Waldo, as modern scholars contend, but from the area in which they lived. [8] They claim Peter Waldo in fact got his name by association with the Waldenses. This thought was current in the early 19th century:
"Some Protestants, on this occasion, have fallen into the snare that was set for them...It is absolutely false, that these churches were ever found by Peter Waldo...it is a pure forgery."[9] "It is not true, that Waldo gave this name to the inhabitants of the valleys: they were called Waldenses, or Vaudes, before his time, from the valleys in which they dwelt." [9] "On the other hand, he "was called Valdus, or Waldo, because he received his religious notions from the inhabitants of the valleys." [10] The claim of an ancient origin was for a long time accepted as valid by Protestant historians.[7] The Alexandrine Nobles Lessons, written in Provençal, was thought at one time to have been composed in 1100, but all scholars now date it between 1190 and 1240.[11] Other scholars claimed Claudius, Bishop of Turin (died 840), Berengarius of Tours (died 1088), or other such men who had preceded Peter Waldo, as the founder of the group.[7] In the nineteenth century, however, critics came to the conclusion that the poem and other Waldensian documents offered as proof had been altered.[7] For example, the respected Waldensian scholar Dr. Emilio Comba dismissed the theories related to the ancient origin of the Waldensians in the middle of the 19th century.
I've never heard of this fellow and thought I'd look into him. He's a pastor at an Assemblies of God church. Here's a snippit of his testimony. To read the entire thing, click HERE
On the second appointment, this pastor asked me, "Do you believe you will speak in tongues when I pray for you?" I said I wasn't sure, but he assured me it would happen. I was scared that nothing would happen.
After further discussion, I prayed to the Lord something like this: "Dear Lord Jesus, I want you, and only you. Fill me with the Holy Spirit and give me the power of God." I prayed this prayer based on Luke 11:13. God will give his children the Holy Spirit if they ask, not a serpent (a demon).
I believed that I should open my mouth and speak what came out - so I did. At that very instant something very surprising happened to me. I felt like 240 Volts of power was going through my body - it was also a bit like pins and needles. I thought, "Something real is happening". I had never experienced anything like that before. At the same time, I continued to utter syllables that I did not comprehend at all. It was something that was right outside my experience. I had never felt anything like that when I prayed before! I knew it was God's power that I had asked for.
I went home and kept praying in tongues. Then I went to a Christian conference organised by Campus Crusade. I noticed in my life a greater desire to serve God, a desire after holiness and purity which I had never known before. Up until that time, holiness had a very negative connotation for me. It was something I didn't want. But now things were different. The first unbeliever I talked with prayed to receive Christ.
When I returned to University, I knew that what I had experienced was not going to be accepted by most of my Christian friends. And I was right. I had already made the commitment though, that I was after truth no matter what it would cost me in terms of social relationships. I have never regretted that decision.
I started attending an AOG church. It wasn't long before the matter of water baptism was brought up. Having now experienced the Holy Spirit in a new way, I was eager for everything God had for me. I had long suspected that baptism was for believers, not babies. I remember wishing I could be baptised before as a believer when I was in the Anglican church. I was glad to learn that it was still part of God's plan.
I offer this only as an alternative response to these all too common allegations.
God bless
1 Corinthians 11:2
Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us.
There are plenty of NT references to Tradition. The above are just the easiest to see clear reference to. Jesus even fulfilled prophecy that existed only in Holy Tradition and was never found in Holy Scripture. Tradition and Scripture have always been authoritative, in Judaism and also Christianity. It wasn't until 1600s to the present that people began to ignore and eventually entirely reject Holy Tradition as having any authority.
Jesus spoke against bad tradition or traditions of men and never rejected Holy Tradition. The following is pre-resurrection of course but still, continuity is key to understanding that Christianity sees itself as the purest expression of Judaism. Catholics also believe that Christianity is the end of all religion. Sacramental theology is sorely misunderstood by protestants and they reduce their understanding of it to ritual and religion. Judaism and Christianity has been Sacramental (though differently) and liturgical since the beginning. Continuity is key:
Matthew 23:1-3 (New International Version)
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
To get a general but actual understanding of Holy Tradition vs tradition vs custom click on the following article titles:
On Holy Tradition
Paradosis and its Noetic Base: Towards a Spiritual Statement of Tradition in Orthodox Thought
Let This Mind Be In You
The Sources of Christian Doctrine
Following the Holy Fathers
Introduction to Humility
The Monastic Life
Some Remarks to a Priest Concerning Holy Tradition and Modernism
Commonly Misunderstood Terms
Dogmas and Opinions
General Rules for Distinguishing Truth From Error and Preserving the Faith
For those who are interested, clickeroo on the following article
Does Orthodoxy Really Think It Is the "True Church"?
The following CChat thread covers this topic:
A Refutation of Sola Scriptura
Paul calls himself Father in the bible. The Father issue is easy enough to find explanations for. Research. It's out there for those who verily verily want to look past the rhetoric and get a solid understanding on these issues.
On the Waldeneses...
Here too, this is easily enough understood. Research. Any person looking into these issues ought to go in objectively:
WIKI (just a general source but look into the issue if anyone wants to have an opinion with integrity)
Some researchers argue that the group has existed since the time of the apostles, a claim that is disputed by modern scholarship.[1] The supporters of the ancient origin claim the Waldenses' name does not in fact come from Peter Waldo, as modern scholars contend, but from the area in which they lived. [8] They claim Peter Waldo in fact got his name by association with the Waldenses. This thought was current in the early 19th century:
"Some Protestants, on this occasion, have fallen into the snare that was set for them...It is absolutely false, that these churches were ever found by Peter Waldo...it is a pure forgery."[9] "It is not true, that Waldo gave this name to the inhabitants of the valleys: they were called Waldenses, or Vaudes, before his time, from the valleys in which they dwelt." [9] "On the other hand, he "was called Valdus, or Waldo, because he received his religious notions from the inhabitants of the valleys." [10] The claim of an ancient origin was for a long time accepted as valid by Protestant historians.[7] The Alexandrine Nobles Lessons, written in Provençal, was thought at one time to have been composed in 1100, but all scholars now date it between 1190 and 1240.[11] Other scholars claimed Claudius, Bishop of Turin (died 840), Berengarius of Tours (died 1088), or other such men who had preceded Peter Waldo, as the founder of the group.[7] In the nineteenth century, however, critics came to the conclusion that the poem and other Waldensian documents offered as proof had been altered.[7] For example, the respected Waldensian scholar Dr. Emilio Comba dismissed the theories related to the ancient origin of the Waldensians in the middle of the 19th century.
I've never heard of this fellow and thought I'd look into him. He's a pastor at an Assemblies of God church. Here's a snippit of his testimony. To read the entire thing, click HERE
On the second appointment, this pastor asked me, "Do you believe you will speak in tongues when I pray for you?" I said I wasn't sure, but he assured me it would happen. I was scared that nothing would happen.
After further discussion, I prayed to the Lord something like this: "Dear Lord Jesus, I want you, and only you. Fill me with the Holy Spirit and give me the power of God." I prayed this prayer based on Luke 11:13. God will give his children the Holy Spirit if they ask, not a serpent (a demon).
I believed that I should open my mouth and speak what came out - so I did. At that very instant something very surprising happened to me. I felt like 240 Volts of power was going through my body - it was also a bit like pins and needles. I thought, "Something real is happening". I had never experienced anything like that before. At the same time, I continued to utter syllables that I did not comprehend at all. It was something that was right outside my experience. I had never felt anything like that when I prayed before! I knew it was God's power that I had asked for.
I went home and kept praying in tongues. Then I went to a Christian conference organised by Campus Crusade. I noticed in my life a greater desire to serve God, a desire after holiness and purity which I had never known before. Up until that time, holiness had a very negative connotation for me. It was something I didn't want. But now things were different. The first unbeliever I talked with prayed to receive Christ.
When I returned to University, I knew that what I had experienced was not going to be accepted by most of my Christian friends. And I was right. I had already made the commitment though, that I was after truth no matter what it would cost me in terms of social relationships. I have never regretted that decision.
I started attending an AOG church. It wasn't long before the matter of water baptism was brought up. Having now experienced the Holy Spirit in a new way, I was eager for everything God had for me. I had long suspected that baptism was for believers, not babies. I remember wishing I could be baptised before as a believer when I was in the Anglican church. I was glad to learn that it was still part of God's plan.
I offer this only as an alternative response to these all too common allegations.
God bless
