The Doctrine of Christ and Walking As He Walked

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Nov 26, 2011
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#1
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his broth
er.




Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

 
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WheresEnoch

Guest
#2
So much truth!
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#3
What is your definition if sin Skinski7?
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#4
What is your definition if sin Skinski7?
My definition would be irrelevant if it is not in accordance with the definition of the Bible. Therefore let us look at what the Bible says...



The Bible defines Sin as...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin [G2566] is the transgression of the law.

Sin = Transgression of the Law

If we go to Strongs...

Sin - Hamartia - G2566
ham-ar-tee'-ah
From G264; sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful).

If we look up G246 we read...

G46 - hamartanō
ham-ar-tan'-o
Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313; properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.

If we now look up G1 and G3313 respectively...

G1 - A
al'-fah
Of Hebrew origin; the first letter of the alphabet: figuratively only (from its use as a numeral) the first. Often used (usually “an”, before a vowel) also in composition (as a contraction from G427) in the sense of privation; so in many words beginning with this letter; occasionally in the sense of union (as a contraction of G260): - Alpha.

G3313 - meros
mer'-os
From an obsolete but more primary form of μείρομαι meiromai (to get as a section or allotment); a division or share (literally or figuratively, in a wide application): - behalf, coast, course, craft, particular (+ -ly), part (+ -ly), piece, portion, respect, side, some sort (-what).

If G46 is perhaps "missing the mark" in the context of the negative of G1 put together with G3313 we see that it means a course that is directed away from that which it should go. John uses G2566 in the context of "transgression" as opposed to merely "missing the mark."

Now let us take a look at James...

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin (G266).

Sin = Doing wrong knowingly.

James uses...

G266 - hamartia
ham-ar-tee'-ah
From G264; sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful).

G266 is from G264...

G264 - hamartanō
ham-ar-tan'-o
Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313; properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.


James 4:17 and John 3:4 are the two places I am aware of in the New Testament which appear to offer a clear definition of sin and they both implicate purposeful wrong doing.

If we take into account this statement of John...

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin (G264) not. And if any man sin (G264), we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

... it is interesting to note that John uses the word G264 here yet a few verses earlier he uses G266 in a John 1:7-10.

With all this in mind I will repost an article I wrote about two kinds of sin so you will know where I stand.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#5
[h=3]Two Types of Sin[/h]
Sin can be both willful and non-willful.

It is willful sin which brings death, non-willful brings correction.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1. Sin unto death
2. Obedience unto righteousness

Sin unto death = disobedience unto unrighteousness.

Therefore...

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Thus...

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Two kinds of sin. One is rebellion, the other is falling short in ignorance. It is only rebellion which cuts one off from God (spiritual death).

Hence the context of the warning...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
Num 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Now here is one of the most beautiful passages in the entire Bible.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

It is the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ which sets us free from the law of sin and death. Why is that? It is because when we walk according to the Spirit by a faith that works by love we are no longer engaged in that which brings our ruin. What a wonderful salvation.

The Pearl of Great Price: Two Types of Sin
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#6
A genuine Christian has ceased from all willful sin.

God's salvation is both a salvation from a manifest state in which we engaged in rebellion to God as well as salvation from the condemnation that the rebellion wrought.

There is a false Christian message being preached today, almost universally, which only deals with the condemnation aspect and denies the rescue from the rebellion aspect. This is why multitudes of professing Christians will argue in favour of ongoing wickedness in salvation.

In effect they deny the teaching of Jesus, especially in regards to what He taught about heart purity.

Anyone with a pure heart does not engage in rebellion to God and therefore does not ever sin willfully. If they do they have once again corrupted themselves and have returned to the mire.

Satan offers ear tickling theology for those who refuse to forsake wickedness by implying that they are simply unable to truly depart from iniquity. Thus with the mindset of being "unable" to depart from iniquity they, by necessity, must uphold a theological system which cloaks their ongoing wicked state by some manner.

The most popular cloak that is believed is the Penal Substitution view of the Atonement. These people believe (without Biblical basis) that God literally poured out His wrath on Jesus as their substitute whereby His wrath was perfectly satisfied and is therefore not due any more. Thus their "ongoing" sin is "paid for in full." They also generally believe that the "obedience of Jesus" is credited to their account. Thus when God looks at them they think God sees the obedience of Jesus instead of their actual disobedience.

It is quite astounding that people believe such a thing but it is what it is.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#7
Jesus Christ died for this purpose...

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

When a sinner approaches God in the correct manner (ie. repentance and faith)...

Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

... a true cleansing occurs whereby...

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

...as the former rebel enters into covenant with God...

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

This is why Peter could say something like this...

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

...and...

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Peter wrote...

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Peter understood that the Ministry of Reconciliation (2Cor 5:20-2 Cor 6:1) leaves one redeemed from all iniquity, pure and thus zealous for righteousness (Tit 2:14). Thus by walking in the Spirit we are able to love one another fervently with a pure heart.

The vast majority of what passes as Christianity today utterly denies this. It very carefully steers its adherents around the subject by presenting the Bible to people in a piecemeal fashion in the way it elaborates carefully its deception.

[video=youtube;XPuhbm74JRU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPuhbm74JRU[/video]
 
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#8
A genuine Christian has ceased from all willful sin.
You have a problem, a big problem. If sin is about the law alone, that definition has to be clear cut. But sin is an action linked to a wrong attitude etc. For some this becomes the attitude is wrong, ie sin so therefore everytime this emotion or attitude appears, sin in their eyes occurs. When sin is extended to concepts like love, ie not loving is a sin, you get into a infinite level of confusion and condemnation.

Now you want to link this all to some theological failure most christians have failed in. I would suggest you are wrong, and do not understand behaviour or the cause of sin and rebellion itself. I would suggest to you it is simple. People do not feel loved or cared for, or understood, and the hurt and bitterness is used as an excuse to lash out and hurt others.

Until people let Jesus deal with the pain, the lostness, the aloneness, yes sin dominates because emotionally it is the only thing that makes sense. But by preaching another set of theology will not change there basic denial of emotional need and what Jesus really represents. I know how little I trusted this reality though being a christian for many years, and how slowly I have been healed and made whole. This is the work of decipleship, transformation and happens throughout the church as people obey the commands of loving, forgiving, reaching out, being honest and truthfull, but most of all walking in faith and letting God heal them.

But I do not think you believe there is an emotional reality to people or to being a member of Kingdom, but it is theology that will change everything. I wish you well, but I think the idea is futile.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#9
I would suggest you are wrong, and do not understand behaviour or the cause of sin and rebellion itself. I would suggest to you it is simple. People do not feel loved or cared for, or understood, and the hurt and bitterness is used as an excuse to lash out and hurt others.
Jesus taught the opposite...

Mar 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mar 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mar 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.


Therefore...

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Eze 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


A foundation of error will only bring forth more error.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#10
Originally Posted by Skinski7


A genuine Christian has ceased from all willful sin.
You have a problem, a big problem.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The blood of the covenant does not exist to sanctify an individual so they can continue in willful sin.

There is simply no sacrifice for ongoing willful sin. Jesus died only for our past sins which is why we have to forsake our rebellion to God once and for all.

The mercy of God is conditional upon repentance.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

This fact is irrefutable. The Bible is ever so clear.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

Anyone who continues in wickedness to their physical death will lose their soul, irrespective of whether they ever repented or not.

Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

This is what the Bible teaches. The implanted word can only save someone who forsakes evil.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Jesus Himself taught that we must be DOERS and not hearers only.

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

How much clearer could things be? Those whom work iniquity will be rejected at the judgement notwithstanding any profession they make...

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These people who professed "Lord, Lord" are going to be a great multitude. Jesus NEVER knew them. They obviously had fallen for some kind of deception whereby they called Jesus "Lord" and yet continued to "work iniquity."

Paul wrote...

2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Yet you think I am the one with the problem because I stated that genuine Christians have ceased from all willful sin?

What do you think "depart from iniquity" means? What do you think "sin no more" means?

Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
 
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#11
The blood of Jesus Christ does not cleanse anyone who does not WALK in the light. One cannot WALK in the light and be willfully sinning at the same time.

Hence...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

That is the reason why no sacrifice remains if we willfully sin after having been sanctified by the blood. The blood only cleanses past sins. We have an advocate for sins of ignorance but no sacrifice for ongoing willful sin.

Please don't be deceived by those who teach that you can sin and not surely die.
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#12
Thank you so much for your thorough response. It is refreshing and brings peace to me to read a scholarly approach to God's word which doesn't subvert the truth.

Could I trouble you for your thoughts once again?

Sin = Transgression of the Law
What have your studies of the scriptures led you to believe is this law, which if we were to know in full, should we strive to live above, out of love for and obedience to our Holy God?
 
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#13
What have your studies of the scriptures led you to believe is this law, which if we were to know in full, should we strive to live above, out of love for and obedience to our Holy God?
The answer is very simple.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Thus if we love God with all our heart, soul and mind, as well as love our neighbour as ourselves then we will not murder, lie, cheat or steal in either thought or deed.

Paul understood this for he wrote...

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

...

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Hence...

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The Law written on tablets of stone could only ever reform the outer man through rote obedience, it could never effect transformation of the inward man by such a manner. The Law gave understanding of what outward righteousness ought to appear like, unfortunately people like the Pharisees viewed the law as an end in itself and missed the Spirit that lay behind it.

Jesus Christ came upon the scene and preached on the Spirit that lay behind the Law and how it is through that Spirit that we can both love God and love our neighbour with a pure heart.

The Pharisees erred in rejecting that message for they sought their redemption in rote obedience to their traditions and thus did not understand a faith that actually works by love. The modern Whore of Babylon has made the same error, except within a context of "trusting in the finished work of Jesus" as opposed to "trusting in the Law of Moses." Both schools of error are premised on the "traditions of men" and thus both reject the principle of heart purity obtained via a genuine faith that works by love (Acts 15:9).

The Pharisees had their religious traditions which they inherited from their fathers.

The modern false church has its traditions which they have inherited from their fathers (ie. Augustine, Anselm, Calvin, Wesley, Finney etc.).


The law we are to fulfill is the law of love. That is all God requires. It can only be fulfilled through the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

God looks at the heart and reckons a faith that works by love as righteousness despite our past rebellion and despite any present ignorance. It is with this knowledge that we can grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ as we are perfected in Him.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#14
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Keeping in mind that the "doctrine of Christ" is all of the NT.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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Here is a very important passage written by Paul which makes things very clear for those with ears to hear.

2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The ministration of the Spirit is the ministration of righteousness. Hence we go full circle back to my original post in this thread made in 2012 where I stated that the doctrine of Jesus Christ is the doctrine according to godliness. The doctrine according to godliness is that we must WALK/ABIDE in and anyone who brings a teaching that denies that simple truth is not of Jesus Christ.

Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
 
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WheresEnoch

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#16
Thank you again brother, I enjoy your posts. Why do you think we should abstain from meat which has been strangled and from blood, whether in or out of meat. And why did Jesus teach the people to observe what was taught from the seat of Moses?

Acts 15
19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”


Matthew 23
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear,[a] and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#17
Thank you again brother, I enjoy your posts. Why do you think we should abstain from meat which has been strangled and from blood, whether in or out of meat.
The eating of blood is detrimental to the health of a human being and an animal strangled to death has not been drained of blood, rather the blood coagulates in its system.

And why did Jesus teach the people to observe what was taught from the seat of Moses?
Jesus commanded them to do that for the very same reason Paul commands us to obey the laws of wherever we live.

Col 3:22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Col 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Tit 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

As long as it does not conflict with our obedience to God we are to be good citizens. It is one way in which we testify to the fact that the kingdom of God is not of this world and that we are just passing through.

Remember that Jesus was speaking to Israel whom were under the Mosaic Law. Their authorities were the priesthood established under Moses and subsequently the authorities of the Roman government. Jesus taught them to do the right thing by those people, adhere the laws, but do it from a proper motive, ie. a faith that works by love.
 
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WheresEnoch

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#18
The eating of blood is detrimental to the health of a human being and an animal strangled to death has not been drained of blood, rather the blood coagulates in its system.
That is one of the better answers I have heard, but then why follow it with this statement -

Acts 15
21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

There are two opinions that I am aware of to understand that verse.

One: To avoid offended jews in every city, but it doesn't make much sense to me because the eating of unclean animals even ones that were prepared properly would be much more of an offense to the jewish population.

Two: Because it is a basic guideline on how to keep clean food from becoming unclean and that as we first turn to God we are not expected to know all of God's commandments. So the apostles and elders determined that they would not trouble new gentile converts with the full of the law, expecting total adherence to it. Instead they gave only some important laws as the apostles and elders figured that the new gentiles would have a chance to hear Moses proclaimed as they grew in Christ and the Holy Spirit would lead them.

The reason they did not expect full obedience to all the law upon conversion being that those in Christ are not saved by total and perfect adherence to the law, but by faith (belief in action) and a heart of obedience which will choose to submit to Christ as they learn.

Acts 15
“Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
 
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WheresEnoch

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#19
I want you to understand me, I am honest in my seeking of these answers. I am not trying to start a debate necessarily.

That said, upon thinking about what you said. I have some thoughts, did the apostles and elders really know what was healthy and what was not healthy? In addition, there are those in our modern day who say that consuming blood in moderation is healthy, being full of vitamins and minerals. I have come across articles in health magazines which endorse the eating of blood sausage.
 
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WheresEnoch

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#20
That is one of the better answers I have heard, but then why follow it with this statement -

Acts 15
21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

There are two opinions that I am aware of to understand that verse.

One: To avoid offended jews in every city, but it doesn't make much sense to me because the eating of unclean animals even ones that were prepared properly would be much more of an offense to the jewish population.

Two: Because it is a basic guideline on how to keep clean food from becoming unclean and that as we first turn to God we are not expected to know all of God's commandments. So the apostles and elders determined that they would not trouble new gentile converts with the full of the law, expecting total adherence to it. Instead they gave only some important laws as the apostles and elders figured that the new gentiles would have a chance to hear Moses proclaimed as they grew in Christ and the Holy Spirit would lead them.
If either opinion is correct, it seems logical to assume that the gentiles would already have a grasp on which animals were clean and unclean. For what sense would it make to avoid improperly preparing an unclean animal and what sense would it make to avoid offending jews by eating unclean animals which were properly prepared.

Also, if the second opinion is correct, then the verse on Moses being proclaimed in every city seems to imply that that gentile converts would be observing the Sabbath if they were attending the synagogues to hear the OT being taught.
 
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