LOGIC

[wattie]

'God won't leave me, but I can leave God'


Many many christians here, believe this statement. I don't want to attack anyone personally, but I do want to challenge them to think about this statement logically.

First logical problem: If God won't leave you, then He will be staying with you, in the process of you leaving Him!

Second- The Holy Spirit indwells someone at salvation. How can they 'leave' something INSIDE them.


If I have had something put inside me, I can't 'leave' that. It could be surgically removed by someone else.. but I can't just 'walk away' from it.


So.. 'God won't leave me, but I can leave God' is a fallacy-- illogical.


John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Eternal salvation.. is from God.. and belongs to Him. We don't own our eternal salvation. It isn't ours to just take or leave once we have already accepted Christ.

 

[psychomom]

But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
For you have been bought with a price. (1 Cor. 6:17, 19-20)

We aren't even ours.
Thanks, Wattie.
-ellie

 

[Laodicea]

Here is some more logic
John 6:53 KJV
(53) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:58 KJV
(58) This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
John 6:63 KJV
(63) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

What happens if we do not eat?

 

[kenisyes]

Dying on the cross for sinners is hardly logical. Love is not logical. We like to think God is logical, but I think we're mistaken.

I think when people say leave God, they mean they stop conversing with Him, acknowledging Him, and try to stop responding to Him.

 

[Trax]

'God won't leave me, but I can leave God'


Many many christians here, believe this statement. I don't want to attack anyone personally, but I do want to challenge them to think about this statement logically.

First logical problem: If God won't leave you, then He will be staying with you, in the process of you leaving Him!

Second- The Holy Spirit indwells someone at salvation. How can they 'leave' something INSIDE them.


If I have had something put inside me, I can't 'leave' that. It could be surgically removed by someone else.. but I can't just 'walk away' from it.


So.. 'God won't leave me, but I can leave God' is a fallacy-- illogical.


John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Eternal salvation.. is from God.. and belongs to Him. We don't own our eternal salvation. It isn't ours to just take or leave once we have already accepted Christ.

Psa 139:1-8 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me.
(2) Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. (3)
Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. (4) For there is
not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether. (5) Thou hast beset me
behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me. (6) Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is
high, I cannot attain unto it. (7) Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy
presence? (8) If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art
there.

 

[Jordache]

I believe a better understanding is turning your back on God. You can certainly turn your back on something inside of you. In that case, God has not left.

 

[cfultz3]

Hey Wattie,

Sorry if my mannerisms seems direct, it is just the way I talk.

'God won't leave me, but I can leave God' -- Freewill, inasmuch as Adam and Eve, Lucifer and the fallen angels (all of who was in direct fellowship with God) had that choice. Of which freewill, it is said, 'chose you this day between life and death, blessing and cursing, good or evil...but as for me, I choose....' If we have chosen evil and then repent of that and chose good, why then can't we choose to return to evil once we have chosen good?

Many many Christians here, believe this statement. I don't want to attack anyone personally, but I do want to challenge them to think about this statement logically.

First logical problem: If God won't leave you, then He will be staying with you, in the process of you leaving Him! -- But if you turn away from Him as your Light, is He not still there behind you beckoning you back Home? He is not the one who turned His back, it was the backslider. We can only have one light before us (one master).

Second- The Holy Spirit indwells someone at salvation. How can they 'leave' something INSIDE them. -- if anyone defiles his temple, I (God) will defile that man.

If I have had something put inside me, I can't 'leave' that. It could be surgically removed by someone else.. but I can't just 'walk away' from it. -- we are speaking spiritually, not physically. In as much as someone can have an evil spirit indwelling in them (possession) and have that spirit expelled (by the opposite of defilement (purification)) through calling upon the name of Jesus, so too can one who has the indwelling of God's Spirit expel Him (by the opposite of purification (defilement)) through obedience to another lord.

So.. 'God won't leave me, but I can leave God' is a fallacy-- illogical. -- Not if you understand that freewill still exist after making a chose. God will not hold me against my freewill (we are not prisoners held captive), as He did not do it to those I mentioned who has a direct relationship with God. That conclusion you have said is the same as saying that a racer cannot exit the race but is forced by officials to complete it even though he has no desire to do otherwise. If the prize is at the end of the race for both the physical and spiritual racer, then would either receive any prize if he forfeits the race?

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. -- Yes, we know His Voice and follow Him, but then again, a sheep can wander. And yes, He will come after that sheep, but as the Prodigal son, he must first repent and turn back around to the Shepherd who is standing behind him with open arms to welcome him back home, sheep was made alive again and who was lost, but was found walking back Home.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. -- and no man can. But that does not say that they who wish not to have Him as their Strongtower does not still have that freewill that had when they first believed. Again, if we have that chose to believe, then why would it be taken away from us when we do believe?


Eternal salvation.. is from God.. and belongs to Him. We don't own our eternal salvation. It isn't ours to just take or leave once we have already accepted Christ. -- Salvation is through faith and was brought about by a gracious act of God. Salvation is offered to all. If salvation is a gift for the taken by the simple act of faith, cannot even one return it if they became in a state of reprobate? To say it cannot be lost, is the same as saying that one is free to do as he wishes, knowing it cannot be lost. I am not saying that you are teaching a licentious gospel, but can you imagine how proponents of Universal Salvation concludes that it does not matter how you live, we all will be saved in the end? And to that conclusion, I can only say, why then will we have our deeds judged?

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[wattie]

Here is some more logic
John 6:53 KJV
(53) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:58 KJV
(58) This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
John 6:63 KJV
(63) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

What happens if we do not eat?

Not eating- in this case would be rejecting eternal salvation to begin with.

Remember other verses in John about Jesus' eternal salvation being given, for example:

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Has everlasting life

Shall not come into condemnation

Is passed from death unto life

That's pretty set and sure.

On the other hand then- say we assume this verse isn't about eternal salvation.. but daily service-

except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, you have no life--

well.. if we don't serve God, don't rely on Jesus.. we will be spiritually dry and have no life.

Does this dryness.. mean the Holy Spirit is no longer inside us?

It can't mean that.. because again-- that indwelling is something you can't walk away from.

Their is a difference between-

Initial salvation & daily service

the distinction between them must be made clear.

 

[wattie]

Hey Wattie,

Sorry if my mannerisms seems direct, it is just the way I talk.

'God won't leave me, but I can leave God' -- Freewill, inasmuch as Adam and Eve, Lucifer and the fallen angels (all of who was in direct fellowship with God) had that choice. Of which freewill, it is said, 'chose you this day between life and death, blessing and cursing, good or evil...but as for me, I choose....' If we have chosen evil and then repent of that and chose good, why then can't we choose to return to evil once we have chosen good?

Many many Christians here, believe this statement. I don't want to attack anyone personally, but I do want to challenge them to think about this statement logically.

First logical problem: If God won't leave you, then He will be staying with you, in the process of you leaving Him! -- But if you turn away from Him as your Light, is He not still there behind you beckoning you back Home? He is not the one who turned His back, it was the backslider. We can only have one light before us (one master).

Second- The Holy Spirit indwells someone at salvation. How can they 'leave' something INSIDE them. -- if anyone defiles his temple, I (God) will defile that man.

If I have had something put inside me, I can't 'leave' that. It could be surgically removed by someone else.. but I can't just 'walk away' from it. -- we are speaking spiritually, not physically. In as much as someone can have an evil spirit indwelling in them (possession) and have that spirit expelled (by the opposite of defilement (purification)) through calling upon the name of Jesus, so too can one who has the indwelling of God's Spirit expel Him (by the opposite of purification (defilement)) through obedience to another lord.

So.. 'God won't leave me, but I can leave God' is a fallacy-- illogical. -- Not if you understand that freewill still exist after making a chose. God will not hold me against my freewill (we are not prisoners held captive), as He did not do it to those I mentioned who has a direct relationship with God. That conclusion you have said is the same as saying that a racer cannot exit the race but is forced by officials to complete it even though he has no desire to do otherwise. If the prize is at the end of the race for both the physical and spiritual racer, then would either receive any prize if he forfeits the race?

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. -- Yes, we know His Voice and follow Him, but then again, a sheep can wander. And yes, He will come after that sheep, but as the Prodigal son, he must first repent and turn back around to the Shepherd who is standing behind him with open arms to welcome him back home, sheep was made alive again and who was lost, but was found walking back Home.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. -- and no man can. But that does not say that they who wish not to have Him as their Strongtower does not still have that freewill that had when they first believed. Again, if we have that chose to believe, then why would it be taken away from us when we do believe?


Eternal salvation.. is from God.. and belongs to Him. We don't own our eternal salvation. It isn't ours to just take or leave once we have already accepted Christ. -- Salvation is through faith and was brought about by a gracious act of God. Salvation is offered to all. If salvation is a gift for the taken by the simple act of faith, cannot even one return it if they became in a state of reprobate? To say it cannot be lost, is the same as saying that one is free to do as he wishes, knowing it cannot be lost. I am not saying that you are teaching a licentious gospel, but can you imagine how proponents of Universal Salvation concludes that it does not matter how you live, we all will be saved in the end? And to that conclusion, I can only say, why then will we have our deeds judged?

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Ya firstly I don't believe in universal salvation.. because if I am not mistaken that assumes that God saves everyone regardless of whether they have received Christ or not. Jesus saves only those who receive Him. The Holy Spirit in this same process in the same instant INDWELLS that person.

Now this indwelling-- it IS physical. The Holy Spirit does LITERALLY dwell in your soul- in your body. It is spiritual of course, aswell.

Now.. someone backslides with this indwelling.. they hurt the Holy Spirit.. the Holy Spirit then rebukes, admonishes and disciplines. This is how parents work with their children. They don't condemn the child the moment they do some bad act.

Also-- practically everyone fails at some point after having received Christ. Nobody is perfect.

 

[Laodicea]

Not eating- in this case would be rejecting eternal salvation to begin with.

Remember other verses in John about Jesus' eternal salvation being given, for example:

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Has everlasting life

Shall not come into condemnation

Is passed from death unto life

That's pretty set and sure.

On the other hand then- say we assume this verse isn't about eternal salvation.. but daily service-

except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, you have no life--

well.. if we don't serve God, don't rely on Jesus.. we will be spiritually dry and have no life.

Does this dryness.. mean the Holy Spirit is no longer inside us?

It can't mean that.. because again-- that indwelling is something you can't walk away from.

Their is a difference between-

Initial salvation & daily service

the distinction between them must be made clear.

If we do not physically eat we will die, if we do not spiritually eat we will spiritually die. There is no such thing as OSAS.

 

[cfultz3]

Ya firstly I don't believe in universal salvation.. because if I am not mistaken that assumes that God saves everyone regardless of whether they have received Christ or not. Jesus saves only those who receive Him. The Holy Spirit in this same process in the same instant INDWELLS that person.

Now this indwelling-- it IS physical. The Holy Spirit does LITERALLY dwell in your soul- in your body. It is spiritual of course, aswell.

Now.. someone backslides with this indwelling.. they hurt the Holy Spirit.. the Holy Spirit then rebukes, admonishes and disciplines. This is how parents work with their children. They don't condemn the child the moment they do some bad act.

Also-- practically everyone fails at some point after having received Christ. Nobody is perfect.

Yes, we as children do fall and are corrected by our Daddy. No problems there. Now, if a person does not repent from corrections, then they become a rebellious child in opposition to their Parent's will. It is only when they TURN back around that they are alive again and are fouind, otherwise they remain reprobated into the world, and they who are outside are judged by God. Point, as long as you are out in the world, you are under judgment. A child needs to repent from his offence. A child is not given grace to live in rebellion, he is given grace so that he could have found mercy from his High Priest.

 

[Stephen63]

2 Timothy 4:10 10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
2 Peter 2:15 15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

People do leave God. It is scriptural.

 

[wattie]

2 Timothy 4:10 10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
2 Peter 2:15 15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

People do leave God. It is scriptural.

Question-

You can physically walk away from your parents.. deny them after being born into that family.. but

can you undo the biological connection you have when you born into that family?

John 5:24

Eternal life being given- means that Jesus gave it.. and it is ETERNAL. If it is guaranteed to be eternal.. and He owns it..

Then there is nothing a saved person does do to with losing it- because it is eternal.

Logic again.


As for the above verses

Think about what 'forsaken' means in these passages. In Titus' case.. he went a different way.. physically. Not mention of actually losing eternal life.

The same is true for the other two names-- Demas and Crescans. They have gone their own way, but the forsaking doesn't mean 'lost eternal life'. It means-- departing physical company with Paul where they were in one company of missionaries.

Paul himself was told by God in Acts not to go to Jerusalem. Paul went anyway, because of the past he had with those people. Did that mean Paul had undone the indwelling of the Holy Spirit inside Him? No way! God let Paul go to Jerusalem.. Paul still served God.. although not in the way God really wanted. Paul got imprisoned in Jerusalem which is probably what God did not want for him- but Paul did not 'leave' the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.


I'll get back to you about 2 Peter 2:15-- but remember the whole context around this verse.

 

[Laodicea]

The word of God cannot be interpreted by human logic. The word of God is to be interpreted by the word of God.

 

[cfultz3]

I know you were not speaking to me, but felt it was ok.

Question-

You can physically walk away from your parents.. deny them after being born into that family.. but

can you undo the biological connection you have when you born into that family? -- Agan, we are speaking about things spiritual, not physical. If we defile the temple, of which the Holy Spirit indwells, then God Himself shall defile that person for having defiled that temple. It is those who are defiled who are outside of New Jersalem. It was only when the Prodical Son returned that he then was alive AGAIN and was found (lost sheep).

John 5:24

Eternal life being given- means that Jesus gave it.. and it is ETERNAL. If it is guaranteed to be eternal.. and He owns it.. -- While we are here in the flesh, we have not yet obtained glorification, seeing that we are still being sanctified. Evernlasting life is the reward at the end of the race, and no one who is in a race will obtain the prize until the race is over. If we have everlasting life now, why even bother continuing in the faith? Why not live life to the fullest.

Then there is nothing a saved person does do to with losing it- because it is eternal. -- The conclusion of this logic dictates that the end result to be in harmony to Universal Salvation. If I am saved, then there is nothing I can do to loose salvation. So, shall I become a child of the rebellion and mock the death of Christ, seeing that God would be judged to be of a double standard if He were to hand an adverse sentencing down upon me? When that time comes when we stand before God, shall we say, 'But God, you said I could never loose it. Are you a liar?' (I speak as a man seeking to give understanding). Do we really want to put God in a strangle hold? Do we really think that God would go against the essence of His nature so that we may have pleasure in the flesh? Would that not then make God an unfair judge when He would judge the wicked for the things He would allow for the saints?

Logic again.


As for the above verses

Think about what 'forsaken' means in these passages. In Titus' case.. he went a different way.. physically. Not mention of actually losing eternal life.

The same is true for the other two names-- Demas and Crescans. They have gone their own way, but the forsaking doesn't mean 'lost eternal life'. It means-- departing physical company with Paul where they were in one company of missionaries.

Paul himself was told by God in Acts not to go to Jerusalem. Paul went anyway, because of the past he had with those people. Did that mean Paul had undone the indwelling of the Holy Spirit inside Him? No way! God let Paul go to Jerusalem.. Paul still served God.. although not in the way God really wanted. Paul got imprisoned in Jerusalem which is probably what God did not want for him- but Paul did not 'leave' the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.


I'll get back to you about 2 Peter 2:15-- but remember the whole context around this verse.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[kenisyes]

The word of God cannot be interpreted by human logic. The word of God is to be interpreted by the word of God.

In the Holy Spirit. Some people use logical process on the verses to interpret the Word of God.

 

[wattie]

I know you were not speaking to me, but felt it was ok.



1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Okay..

When I was saying that eternal means eternal.. you were saying that if you had eternal life and their was nothing that could be done to lose.. you would then go and do whatever you liked.

Well, this is thinking carnally minded.

If someone rescued you from death or drowning.. wouldn't you want to be thankful back?

This is the reason to serve God. Our 'reasonable response'

A person who has accepted Christ.. has the Holy Spirit inside them. So when they do fail, do go rebellious.. it isn't like their isn't any consequence.. they are still disciplined, rebuked, admonished. That is a fair consequence.

Parents do this with their children.. as I typed before.

The only consequence that isn't given is damnation.. because that would be making a mockery of the eternal salvation given in the first place.


Also.. the folks 'outside the gates' in Revelation. Take note that there are two different groups that are rebellious in Revelation. One gets completely destroyed.. the other is 'outside the gates'.

Now-- if you read earlier verses - you will see that people in heaven.. people can come and go out of those gates.

If 'outside the gates' was hell.. there would be no coming in and out of the heavenly Jerusalem.

So there is a problem here.

Could it be- that the people 'outside the gates' are in heaven.. because they were given eternal life, but because they were rebellious after receiving eternal life.. are not allowed into the Heavenly Jerusalem?

In other words.. could it be that Heaven.. is more that the Heavenly Jerusalem? The Heavenly Jerusalem being the centrepiece.. like the local church of heaven?

I know that this idea is mere surmising.. but if only faithful are in heaven.. then you have got yourself works based salvation.


Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

So- is without-- in hell? Or without entrance into the city?

 

[wattie]

In the Holy Spirit. Some people use logical process on the verses to interpret the Word of God.

Yah this is what I mean.

The Word of God interprets itself. It is also consistent and logical. No contradictions.. no errors.

So logic is not opposed to God's Word.. but directly related to it. It is the best logic-- God's logic.

 

[Laodicea]

Yah this is what I mean.

The Word of God interprets itself. It is also consistent and logical. No contradictions.. no errors.

So logic is not opposed to God's Word.. but directly related to it. It is the best logic-- God's logic.

By your logic you are teaching OSAS which is not Biblical.
Romans 11:20-21 KJV
(20) Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
(21) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

 

[starfield]

A person who has accepted Christ.. has the Holy Spirit inside them. So when they do fail, do go rebellious.. it isn't like their isn't any consequence.. they are still disciplined, rebuked, admonished. That is a fair consequence.

Parents do this with their children.. as I typed before.

The only consequence that isn't given is damnation.. because that would be making a mockery of the eternal salvation given in the first place.

That is contrary to the scriptures.
Rom 2:5-8
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, If a Christian disobeys God's word they will incur His wrath.

Rom 11:21-22
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. You will not reap the eternal reward if you don't abide in Christ.

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. If a Christian lives in rebellion to God, they will not inherit the kingdom of God, unlike what OSAS advocates say.

Gal 6:7-8
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. If a Christian decides to sow to the flesh, they will not reap life everlasting.

2 Peter 1:10-11
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Also.. the folks 'outside the gates' in Revelation. Take note that there are two different groups that are rebellious in Revelation. One gets completely destroyed.. the other is 'outside the gates'.

Well, it's no fun to be kept outside while the party is going on inside, is it?

I know that this idea is mere surmising.. but if only faithful are in heaven.. then you have got yourself works based salvation.

Since when did faithfulness to God become works based salvation?

Rev 2:10- Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. Only the faithful will receive a crown of life.

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
'Once saved always saved no matter what sins you commit' is contrary to the scriptures because it says that nothing that defiles and works abomination will inherit the kingdom of God.

Also, remember that some names will be blotted out of the book of Life. I think that speaks volumes.