How will we be judged?

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RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#1
Chapter 6



HOW WILL WE BE JUDGED?


We’ve seen prior to Jesus’ return the events by which the world will be judged, and that we will take part in it. But it’s not just that earthly judgment we have to be concerned with. In Revelation 11, where we heard the 7th trumpet sound, those around God’s throne proclaim that the time has come for Him to rule and judge the saints. That’s us. And that’s a whole separate judgment. The tribulation events are an earthly phenomenon, occurring before His return; judging the saints is spiritual and comes after He gathers us. So how then will we be judged?

Jesus likened this judgment as to when a man going on a journey called his servants together and gave them each some money to look after. When he returned he found that two had wisely invested the monies to earn more. He was proud of them and put them in charge over parts of his estate. But a third servant had only hid his, returning no more than what he had been given. The man scolded this servant and cast him out, calling him unfaithful. "To whom much is given, much will be required” Jesus said[1].

This is pretty clear and logical. We will be called to account for how we use what He gives us. The productive servant will be rewarded, and the unproductive is ‘cast out’.

Jesus had earlier likened our entrance into His Kingdom as to when a king threw a feast and those he invited were too busy to respond[2]. So the king opened the doors and took in anyone who would come, filled the place and the feast began. Those who had been invited came at their leisure, only to find themselves tossed out and the door shut in their face.

Jesus later expanded on this by telling of 10 ‘virgins’ (using a term that references wedding attendants) with lamps who went out to wait for a bridegroom[3]. The groom was delayed and the attendants went to sleep. Late at night they were awakened by the bridegroom’s coming. Turning up their lamps to receive him, half of them were out of oil and had to go find some. While they were gone, the groom arrived and took the others into the wedding feast. When the five without oil returned later, they found themselves denied entrance and shut out.

There’s a recurring theme here. We are accountable for how we use what He gives us; The prudent enter into a feast, and the ‘tardy’ are shut out.

Paul described our judgment[4], where he says we will give an account of our lives to God and receive good or bad for our works. Paul explained to the Corinthians[5] that those who founded their faith in Jesus build upon that foundation by the works they do, whether good (represented by silver and gold) or bad (wood and straw). On the day of judgment these works will be tested by fire, and those whose work is not burnt up will be rewarded, while those whose work is burned away will suffer a loss. But they will be saved, as though "through the fire” Paul says.

As though thru the fire. What does that mean?

When Jesus returns and takes us up He will host a feast, a wedding feast to be exact and we’ll look at that in a bit. The point is when He returns, those He finds faithfully responsive will enter in with Him to this feast. But those who aren’t will find themselves shut out of it. Remember, these are all part of that group that He gathered to Him. None the less some are separated from Him for a time because of their faithlessness.

Hell in its Biblical form is a place set apart from the presence of God[6], and described as a lake of fire. With God inside at the wedding feast, those who are locked out are set apart from His presence, and therefore going through a very real form of hell. "As though through the fire,” Paul said. Jesus said that the unfaithful servant will be appointed a portion with the unbelievers[7], and repeatedly warned that those who fail His judgment will be cast out into darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth[8] - a close analogy to the wailing and gnashing described going on in the lake of fire[9].

There is debate on whether you get your heaven or hell pass by ‘being good’. Jesus says that for actually getting in, no that does not matter. The reason that doesn’t matter is because all you have to do is be bad once, and your ticket is punched. And Lord knows we’re all going to trip up at some point. That’s why Jesus says that He is not just the way to God, but the only way to Him. He paid our entry fee, and there’s nothing we can possibly do to earn it aside from accepting it. That is the unforgiveable sin – not accepting forgiveness. So no, being good does not get you into ‘heaven’.

BUT – being good or bad does get you into or out of Jesus’ wedding feast. If you’re cast out then you will go thru something very similar to hell while the feast goes on. That is the sum of our judgment here, the reward and punishment according to our works in His name.

Also note again that this not the end of the world, but the end of the age. There is another judgment which occurs at the end of the world[10], where God sits upon the Great White Throne and divides mankind up into two groups, namely His and not His people. Those who are not His People are cast into the lake of fire, while His people inherit a new creation. This is a separate and later final judgment, and we’ll come back to it too in a bit.

But if I may be allowed to digress again, let me share with you my picture of hell. God’s word tells us the world is made of things unseen, which describes the atom and it’s components. The interesting thing about the atom is that it’s nucleus is composed of like-charged particles, and orbiting that are like charged particles. The laws of science dictate that like charged particles repel each other, indicating the whole dang thing should just naturally come apart. But God says that all things are held together by Him[11]. The Lord spoke this creation into existence, putting it together by His very Word (note the similarity of word/world). We are told that at the end of its existence the elements will melt with fervent heat[12]. Consider what happens when an atom is split - it creates intense heat and fire as the element is ripped out of existence. Could it be possible that when God speaks it out of existence, the resulting nuclear meltdown of all created matter that now exists as our earth and heavens will create the lake of fire? Would it seem fitting that those who love this world more than Him would be given it, in its natural state apart from Him?

Ok, back to it. Jesus has gathered us together, celebrated with His faithful, and is returning with us to earth to begin exercising His authority. So what’s that going to be like?

[1] Matt. 25:14-30; Luke 19:11-27


[2] Matt. 22:1-4; Luke 14:15-24


[3] Matt. 25:1-13


[4] 2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 14:10-12


[5] 1 Corinthians 3:11-15


[6] Matt. 25:41


[7] Luke 12:16


[8] Matt. 8:12; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30


[9] Matt. 13:42, 50


[10] Matt 25:31 - 46, Rev. 20:11-15


[11] Hebrews 11:3; Col. 1:16


[12] 2 Peter 3:7, 10, 12
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#2
Chapter 6



HOW WILL WE BE JUDGED?


We’ve seen prior to Jesus’ return the events by which the world will be judged, and that we will take part in it. But it’s not just that earthly judgment we have to be concerned with. In Revelation 11, where we heard the 7th trumpet sound, those around God’s throne proclaim that the time has come for Him to rule and judge the saints. That’s us. And that’s a whole separate judgment. The tribulation events are an earthly phenomenon, occurring before His return; judging the saints is spiritual and comes after He gathers us. So how then will we be judged?

Jesus likened this judgment as to when a man going on a journey called his servants together and gave them each some money to look after. When he returned he found that two had wisely invested the monies to earn more. He was proud of them and put them in charge over parts of his estate. But a third servant had only hid his, returning no more than what he had been given. The man scolded this servant and cast him out, calling him unfaithful. "To whom much is given, much will be required” Jesus said[1].

This is pretty clear and logical. We will be called to account for how we use what He gives us. The productive servant will be rewarded, and the unproductive is ‘cast out’.

Jesus had earlier likened our entrance into His Kingdom as to when a king threw a feast and those he invited were too busy to respond[2]. So the king opened the doors and took in anyone who would come, filled the place and the feast began. Those who had been invited came at their leisure, only to find themselves tossed out and the door shut in their face.

Jesus later expanded on this by telling of 10 ‘virgins’ (using a term that references wedding attendants) with lamps who went out to wait for a bridegroom[3]. The groom was delayed and the attendants went to sleep. Late at night they were awakened by the bridegroom’s coming. Turning up their lamps to receive him, half of them were out of oil and had to go find some. While they were gone, the groom arrived and took the others into the wedding feast. When the five without oil returned later, they found themselves denied entrance and shut out.

There’s a recurring theme here. We are accountable for how we use what He gives us; The prudent enter into a feast, and the ‘tardy’ are shut out.

Paul described our judgment[4], where he says we will give an account of our lives to God and receive good or bad for our works. Paul explained to the Corinthians[5] that those who founded their faith in Jesus build upon that foundation by the works they do, whether good (represented by silver and gold) or bad (wood and straw). On the day of judgment these works will be tested by fire, and those whose work is not burnt up will be rewarded, while those whose work is burned away will suffer a loss. But they will be saved, as though "through the fire” Paul says.

[3] Matt. 25:1-13


[4] 2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 14:10-12


[5] 1 Corinthians 3:11-15


[6] Matt. 25:41


[7] Luke 12:16


[8] Matt. 8:12; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30


[9] Matt. 13:42, 50


[10] Matt 25:31 - 46, Rev. 20:11-15


[11] Hebrews 11:3; Col. 1:16


[12] 2 Peter 3:7, 10, 12
I don't know where you got this outlandish, mysterious thought, Rickzee, but it's your opinion.
Isn't it all though, unless what's said is not from Him, seeming foolish to those not receiving of His Word (wisdom)?

God is right, God is not wrong, we grieve God when we do wrong, like don't have our 'candle' ready, like when we don't just go on faith and marry the night......

....to the light. Doesn't God want us to be in so much power of Him that we don't need signs, prophecies, tongues, to KNOW Him? Doesn't He want us to be on the edge of bringing Him glory all our life? He wants us prepped with that candles, ladies, gaga over His coming, NOT missing it fer nuttin', miladies.
Outstanding things, God wants us to do, dudes (no, you're NOTmy dudes :D ) But, ok, my mydudes, He wants us to BE the man of the house, if married, leading his family, as the Lord leads him. He wants you, men, to get your family ALL in to that wedding feast, having your garments ALL on that IS required or He will say He never knew you, certainly, won't let you in, and, you will be going to where there is, just as Rickzee, demonstatedly lighted to us all, 'where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth.'

Living in His grace will get you in the door, as His grace is Jesus having died on the cross and YOU are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, from Him. He promises you no one can take you from His sheltering hand and no way will He EVER leave you or forsake you. Not happening :)

Live FULL in His wonderful grace as He who IS in you leads you by the Truth of His word and by His ways and His thoughts that reveal the mysteries of Him to.you, 'steward, that you have been, are, will be shown, altogether meaning from Him that He will use to examine you. Don't YOU examine you, YOU give every thing of you thinking of self-judgment to Him, for you, who have He imputed as righteuosness in you, as grace of salvation and shown perfection of our earthly life striving. He HAS set you free, the Enemy cannot touch you.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
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0
#3
How will we be judged?

By our heart.

Who judges the heart?

Only God and us.

God changes our heart.

We can't.
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#4
How will we be judged?

By our heart.

Who judges the heart?

Only God and us.

God changes our heart.

We can't.
CHRIST is in 'his' heart
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#5
Some verses you left out!


I noticed that you went straight to 1Co 3:11-15 in the context of the judgement of believers yet you left off the strong warnings in verses 16 and 17.

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

You focused on 1Cor 3:15 and implied that disobedient Christian's will not enter the wedding feast but will instead go through a purging for a period of limited duration, or in your own words, "some are separated from Him for a time because of their unfaithfulness."

You made reference to Luke 12:46 where Jesus speaks of the disobedient servant and says that he is "appointed his portion with the unbelievers." Yet you teach that this "portion" is "being separated from Him for a time" which completely contradicts Rom 2:6-11 where it is quite plainly stated that God is no respecter of persons and will judge everyone by what they do [see further below]. Luke 12:31-48 makes no distinction between being judged unfaithful and entering the kingdom (because you "accepted forgiveness") and being judged unfaithful and being cast into the lake of fire. The distinction being made is in regards to knowledge and that those who know more are held to a higher standard than those who are ignorant. I'll quote the whole passage for context.

Luk 12:31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Luk 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
Luk 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
Luk 12:34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Luk 12:35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
Luk 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
Luk 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
Luk 12:38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
Luk 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
Luk 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
Luk 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
Luk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

For evidence of what I just stated one just needs to compare the teaching of Jesus about the talents. You will notice that the distinction which you try and construct from 1Cor 3:15 in that unfaithful stewards will enter the kingdom simply does not exist. You are attempting to read something that you believe into the plain reading of the text. One is either a willing and obedient (Isa 1:19) sheep or a rebellious self-willed goat (Isa 1:20).

Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I thought it very interesting that your article completely neglected to mention the following passage written by Paul. You asked how will we be judged but neglected to make any reference whatsoever to Romans 2 where Paul very specifically and straightforwardly addresses your initial question...

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

I find it very troubling that you actually believe this...

He paid our entry fee, and there’s nothing we can possibly do to earn it aside from accepting it. That is the unforgiveable sin – not accepting forgiveness. So no, being good does not get you into ‘heaven’.
Firstly you categorically state that the unforgivable sin is "not accepting forgiveness." Yet Jesus Himself stated this...

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The unforgivable sin is attributing the work of the Holy Ghost to the devil. Yet you are teaching that it is "not accepting forgiveness." You also treat the death of Jesus Christ on the cross as if He just paid for your free ticket into the kingdom and that if you had to "do anything" to be eligible then that would be "earning the ticket."

Jesus did not pay for your entry fee which you just accept. Jesus Christ died on that cross so that you can be reconciled to God through repentance and faith and purged of all your past misdeeds via His blood. Read the book of Acts and you will not find them preaching anywhere that people have to "accept forgiveness." They preached that they should repent and turn to God, and do works worthy of repentance.

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

In other words change your mind about your rebellion towards God, forsake it, turn back to God and then live a life which proves that your repentance was in fact real. We don't "earn" forgiveness because no-one deserves it, forgiveness is purely by the grace of God, but that gracious forgiveness is absolutely conditioned on the true repentance and faith of the believer.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

God has not changed.


You referenced 2 Pet 3:7,10 and 12 in regards to the elements being burned but neglected what Peter, in context of the judgement, wrote about repentance, remaining steadfast, being diligent to be without spot, and to beware of the error of the wicked, of those who twist Paul's writings to their own destruction.

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Do you, perhaps ignorantly, twist Paul's writings by selectively quote mining his words to support what you already believe?

The Bible means what it says and it says what it means. Our opinions are inconsequential in the matter of our own salvation if they do not harmonise with the Scriptures as a whole.

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

Be well.
 
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Sep 10, 2012
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#6
God has given all judgement of us to Jesus and He will judge us righteously...He will judge us according to how well we have obeyed the ten commandments..the way we have wholeheartedly loved God and loved others..only Jesus has succeeded to do this so only through Jesus can we receive the righteousness of Jesus as He has received the punishment for our sins to make us righteous before God...the only way to receive forgiveness and mercy from God is to turn to Him in love through Jesus and turn from our sins, hate our sins and stop sinning and this can only be done by the spirit of God who He gives to us...it is this spirit..the Holy Spirit that was the oil in the lamps of the virgins..the virgins represent the bride of Christ..the church and only with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will they be received into the wedding feast..into God's most wonderful presence for all eternity
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#7
Thank you, thank you, I appreciate your thoughts and ideas and that's what I was looking for. I always love to stir the pot! Consider your efforts all taken under advisement.

A lot of what I said wasn't exclusionary of what you all said, and I should expound on those things. I admit to taking literary license to avoid the 'blah blah blah' of most preaching, and hope to try to present an advanced concept in brevity (this was too brief). And I'll caveat that I approach 'Biblical concepts' from a different angle than most. Why I do that is a whole 'nother post. But let me assure you that I don't just jump to conclusions. My 'opinions' are based upon a lifetime of both formal and informal research and experience, with emphasis on the experience part. And while my understandings often push church dogma boundaries, I am always molding my opinions thru interactions like this.

All Bible interpretation is opinion, and for every verse you put up in support of an idea you'll get two back that say just the opposite thing. That's why I don't verse war. I'm more interested in concepts. And anyone who claims their interpretation is more than opinion "because this is what the Bible says" sounds inflexible to me, no offense intended. You can't be molded if you're inflexible and until we're 'dead' we should be moldable. Ergo this post.


Tell me, the beatings and the stripes punishment; aside from the flowery language what do you really picture as happening? Unbelievers are physically chained up and whipped, guidos breaking arms and kneecaps? "weelz teachyas nawt ta do dat!". The purifying fire, where's that come from again? Don't quote me scripture, tell me in your own words.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
1,622
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#8
we will be judged justly, just and true are His ways. Thank you Jesus
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#9
Thank you, thank you, I appreciate your thoughts and ideas and that's what I was looking for. I always love to stir the pot! Consider your efforts all taken under advisement.

A lot of what I said wasn't exclusionary of what you all said, and I should expound on those things. I admit to taking literary license to avoid the 'blah blah blah' of most preaching, and hope to try to present an advanced concept in brevity (this was too brief). And I'll caveat that I approach 'Biblical concepts' from a different angle than most. Why I do that is a whole 'nother post. But let me assure you that I don't just jump to conclusions. My 'opinions' are based upon a lifetime of both formal and informal research and experience, with emphasis on the experience part. And while my understandings often push church dogma boundaries, I am always molding my opinions thru interactions like this.

All Bible interpretation is opinion, and for every verse you put up in support of an idea you'll get two back that say just the opposite thing. That's why I don't verse war. I'm more interested in concepts. And anyone who claims their interpretation is more than opinion "because this is what the Bible says" sounds inflexible to me, no offense intended. You can't be molded if you're inflexible and until we're 'dead' we should be moldable. Ergo this post.


Tell me, the beatings and the stripes punishment; aside from the flowery language what do you really picture as happening? Unbelievers are physically chained up and whipped, guidos breaking arms and kneecaps? "weelz teachyas nawt ta do dat!". The purifying fire, where's that come from again? Don't quote me scripture, tell me in your own words.
Speak from Him, take YOU out of the equation, only He examines you, NOT anyone else.

Brothers and sisters in Christ, green? No, only He examines YOUR soul, let Him, read 1 Cor. 4:1-4 now, He knows you better than anyone, infinitely BETTER than you know YOURSELF even. If you're struggling, ask Him to light the fire, again :)

He IS our purifying, refining fire,came,cU must say your take on 'though saved by 'fire' is going to gnashing many teeth, I pray the Lord teaches us all truth, through Himself, refining the fire in our soul, perfect, as He only intends. He doesn't expect us to be perfect, Christ peeps, He expects us though, to perfectly follow after Him. The Lord leads, and, in our short existence in time He will lead us perfectly. :)

Rickyzee, your post was nothing short of pure, refining brilliance, that is how the Spirit led me to believe, but you follow Him John 21:22 :)

8smgWBDfjTQ
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#10
Oops.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8smgWBDfjTQ[/video]
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#11
we will be judged justly, just and true are His ways. Thank you Jesus
Yeah that part is of no question. But HOW? Generalizations are nice but don't you want to know more specifics?

Thank you Greennnice. I do believe I am right, but Skinski is right too in that while I did study a lot of verses, such as those he posted (and I'm reviewing those), the chapter did skip over a bunch of them and they should be incorporated. I just don't want to make it too verbose and long because that leads to reading fatigue and loss of focus. And you really have to read the chapter on the Bride of Christ to make it gel.

Works in progress... Thank God He never finishes with us!
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#13
Yeah that part is of no question. But HOW? Generalizations are nice but don't you want to know more specifics?

Thank you Greennnice. I do believe I am right, but Skinski is right too in that while I did study a lot of verses, such as those he posted (and I'm reviewing those), the chapter did skip over a bunch of them and they should be incorporated. I just don't want to make it too verbose and long because that leads to reading fatigue and loss of focus. And you really have to read the chapter on the Bride of Christ to make it gel.

Works in progress... Thank God He never finishes with us!
Skinski is tough to hear, he judges as he believes, he judges unsubtle, while some judge with everything but subtitles in their posts :( That's OK, I, and, of course, God Love them, anyway. :) .. We who believe in Him are ALL ONE and we are going to the same place, praise Jesus.



but, I believe, Sinski yearns to follow Christ, Spirit-led, yes, his heart is after God, rickzee.

What, you didn't hear up there, Christ peeps? now, start lifting your voiCE to Him, PRAISE JESUS, right this instant , give ALL GLORY TO GOD, I Love you, peeps :) :)

The Lord leads, silly for us to judge each other as brothers and sisters of anything but SIN unrighteousness, things that get us off a eight standing with God) , and, that, too, is a judgment we are to do in Love, as He leads us.
 
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RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#14
Some verses you left out!




Be well.

I’ve printed out your post and at some point when I get the time to give your references my full attention I’m going to go over it. I know you put in some effort and I don’t want to just skim it like I so often have to do here. I’m dragging this manuscript out of 15 years of cobwebs so it’s good to be challenged and review it, and you provide a good source material for that.

But in my skimming, I think you omit an important issue here. You list all these verses dealing with judgment under the banner of ‘Judgment’. But there are actually several separate and distinct judgments that occur. There’s the judgment of the world, as seen in the ‘tribulation’ events of the seals and trumpets; there’s the judgment of the Saints when Christ calls us all together; there’s the judgment of the wicked thru the pouring out of God’s wrath; there’s the judgment we exercise during Christ’s millennial reign; and there’s the final judgment of all mankind at the very end. And so you can’t just take all the verses dealing with judgment and toss them all into the same box. Rather, you need to solve the jigsaw puzzle, investigating what fits where and what part of the picture does it belong to.

Thank you for the word. I know it was a word because you said something in it you probably don’t realize that would pertain to only me ;). Not that I’ve changed my opinion on the subject, but I do need to expand, clarify, and reconfirm a few things you’ve pointed out. In the meantime, I hope you’ll be flexible enough to give my reasonings at least some thought and investigation. I mean, I’m going to hold my work up against your light, are you willing to do the same?
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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#15
This is a nice piece, I agree with it wholeheartedly. But it's again more repetition of the same. We all know we'll be judged and how and earn reward/punishment. Yes Christ is a cleansing fire. What I want to know is, boots on the ground, how you envision this physically manifesting? What my studies keep coming back to is that if you call on His name you'll be raised up, but if you're not walkin' the walk you're not invited to dinner. And if you're not in having dinner with God, you're cut off just like the folks who later go to 'hell'. Christ's fire and God's fire, they're both created by His absence. (Just like evil).
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#16
The Kings Royal Pardon :)
 
F

feedm3

Guest
#17
I’ve printed out your post and at some point when I get the time to give your references my full attention I’m going to go over it. I know you put in some effort and I don’t want to just skim it like I so often have to do here. I’m dragging this manuscript out of 15 years of cobwebs so it’s good to be challenged and review it, and you provide a good source material for that.

But in my skimming, I think you omit an important issue here. You list all these verses dealing with judgment under the banner of ‘Judgment’. But there are actually several separate and distinct judgments that occur. There’s the judgment of the world, as seen in the ‘tribulation’ events of the seals and trumpets; there’s the judgment of the Saints when Christ calls us all together; there’s the judgment of the wicked thru the pouring out of God’s wrath; there’s the judgment we exercise during Christ’s millennial reign; and there’s the final judgment of all mankind at the very end. And so you can’t just take all the verses dealing with judgment and toss them all into the same box. Rather, you need to solve the jigsaw puzzle, investigating what fits where and what part of the picture does it belong to.

Thank you for the word. I know it was a word because you said something in it you probably don’t realize that would pertain to only me ;). Not that I’ve changed my opinion on the subject, but I do need to expand, clarify, and reconfirm a few things you’ve pointed out. In the meantime, I hope you’ll be flexible enough to give my reasonings at least some thought and investigation. I mean, I’m going to hold my work up against your light, are you willing to do the same?
I would like to say that there is going to be one Resurrection and one judgment. I know many believe in the "millennial reign" of Christ as future, and not present as I believe, yet the final judgment is not effected by these different views.

The world will be judged, and so will Christians. As Peter said, "Judgement must begin at the house of God" - I Pet 4:17.

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator

The 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem was A judgment, and many other events, especially in the OT were judgments, but still not the one final judgment in which the books will be opened.

IF Jesus said we will be judged by his word(Jn 12:48), then we can assume we will be judged by the things written, and those must be the "books that are opened".

As Paul said we must all give an account for the things done in his body, good or bad.

Unrepentant sins are not going to disappear, nor will grace cover them, seeing grace was given so we can repent, if we refuse to do so, it is only our fault.

2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
 
Jul 27, 2011
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#18
i trust God Rickyz, i'm sure God knows what He is doing. Specifics isn't really faith anyway, is it? Faith isn't knowing, faith is believing.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#19
Scripture speaks of two judgments (three if you consider Gods wrath poured out on evil in revelation)

1. Bema Seat judgment. The bema seat was the rewards ceremony, where judges handed rewards out at say like the Olympic games. Those who fought hard, trained well and did good recieved rewards. Where as those who did not train hard, or work hard, but just ran the race recieve nothing. This is the reward or judgment that all of Gods children will go through. They will each be rewarded for the work they completed on earth, in what they did. Gold silver precious stones. We hear of crowns etc etc..

2. great white throne. Only Death and Hades are at this judgment. Death and hades are ONLy those who have not been born into the family of God. Each of those at that judgment will be judged by the great Judge, Christ. This judgment follows the figure of the accused standing in front of a judge for a crime which was commited, and the judge handing down a guilty plea, an innocent plea, and passing out judgment on those who are guilty. A thing to note. No children of God will be at this judgment, only death and hades, Children of God are alive in Christ. And each person at this judgment will be found guilty and suffer the second death.

3. Gods wrath - As revelation, poured out on evil in the last day. A great tribulation such as never has been seen before or after. and if Christ did not return, no flesh would survive. Although this is Gods judgment on evil. Those who are saved and not saved will be killed during this time, and it is not an eternal judgment, Which is why I only mention it in passing as I see some have mentioned it.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#20


great white throne.And each person at this judgment will be found guilty and suffer the second death.


Rev. 20
[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


So....you know for a FACT that not ONE person being judged above has their name in the book of life?

As a matter of fact...according to your logic.....if, as you claim, "...And each person at this judgment will be found guilty", then that would mean there will be NO NAMES in the book of life.


Readers.....does it make sense that God would take the time to have a judgement, read what these have done from a book and then decide that not ONE of them are worthy and that ALL will be condemned AND still have a book of life with not one name in it?


Common sense people. Just use common sense!


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