Who is the Father?

stillearning · Aug 18, 2009

WHO IS THE FATHER?
Mat 1:18 ¶ Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
God IS a Spirit!
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Isa 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or [being] his counsellor hath taught him?
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
God IS everywhere!
1 Kings 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
2 Chr 2:6 But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? who [am] I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him?
2 Chr 6:18 ¶ But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!
Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].
Psa 139:9 [If] I take the wings of the morning, [and] dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
Jer 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
God IS Father!
Deut. 32:6 "Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?"
Isa. 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting."
Isa. 64:8 "But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand."
Jer 31:1 At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:2 Thus saith the LORD, The people [which were] left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; [even] Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
Jer 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, [saying], Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Jer 31:4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.
Jer 31:5 Thou shalt yet plant vines upon the mountains of Samaria: the planters shall plant, and shall eat [them] as common things.
Jer 31:6 For there shall be a day, [that] the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.
Jer 31:7 For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.
Jer 31:8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, [and] with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
Jer 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim [is] my firstborn.
Mal. 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?"
Isa. 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
1 Tim. 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
Col. 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
Col. 1:15 Speaking of Jesus, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"
2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Cr 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
2Cr 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Who IS the Father?
2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
God is ONE! And it is God who is the Father. He was the Father in Creation. He is the Father to the Jews. And He is the Father of the body, the man Jesus Christ, that He dwelt in on earth!

imoss · Aug 18, 2009

what book in the BIBLE is that taken from? sounds wrong for some reason.

imoss · Aug 18, 2009

This is a CHRISTIAN chat room. Kindly take your antichristian links elsewhere. Thank you.

MahogonySnail · Aug 18, 2009

I think Todd is quoting fromthe Essene New Testament. You're an Essene aren't you Todd?
Hardly Christian, it would be good if you were open to who and what you really are instesad of feeding Christians this junk and telling us that Christianity is wrong.
This stuff is straight from the occult. By the way your pdf is so hard to understand and wrong it's not worth fixing, it's only fit for the trash.

Lauren · Aug 18, 2009

Snail, can you give the abridged version of what an Essene is? I have tried to understand todd's posts, but find them quite confusing. ...maybe a little insight would help.

Which do you prefer? Snail, hog, mahog or ms?

MahogonySnail · Aug 18, 2009

You can find a lot about it here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essenes

The modern pseudo-Essene movement "is directly derivative of two occult bestsellers, The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, by Levi H. Dowling; and The Mystical Life of Jesus, by Rosicrucian author H. Spencer Lewis, and possesses no authentic ties to the ancient Essene movement,[52] Other pseudo-Essene writers include the Rev. Gideon Ousely and Dr. Edmund Bordeaux Szekely, both of whom assert that the Essene teachings had been hidden and assimilated into many mystical spiritual traditions around the world, where the teachings were hidden within ancient libraries

wattie · Aug 18, 2009

I am happy to call Jesus the Father..

People -- have a mind, body and soul

God-- three expressions or essences-- Father, Son and Holy Spirit

One God.. three expressions.

Got a problem with Jesus talking to the Father before His sacrifice on the cross? Thinking that makes Him seperate?

Well.. our own minds can communicate with our bodies and our spirit can communicate with both aswell.. 3 in one.

God can't communicate with Himself.. talk to Himself? We can.. and we are made in His image.

Jesus.. says Abraham saw Him

Jesus.. gets stoned by the Jews-- for what? Claiming to be the messiah.. to be God

Jesus.. with the Jewish concept of agency.. whenever He speaks for the Father.. does works in the Father's name.. to the Jews.. this is the same as saying He IS the Father

Jesus-- studying out the names of God.. Jesus' name links back to Yahweh in the OT or YHWH.. the personal expression of the Father.. the relational means by which the Father is manifest.

Got an issue with Jesus being seperate in the flesh from teh Father? Well.. that physical seperateness is not there as soon as Jesus ascends to the Father.. and was not there before Jesus was incarnate in the flesh. So it is only temporary physical seperation.

Anyhoo..

Jesus is the Father? YES! I got no problem with that

Cup-of-Ruin · Aug 18, 2009

todd_vetter33 said:

Greetings,

Consider, Christ as the second Adam, as it is written. Whereas woman was formed from the rib of the first Adam, and was a 'helpmate' for Adam, but no woman was made from the rib of Jesus Christ, but how say that Jesus Christ both Male and Female? Jesus Christ as does the Father have a 'Bride', and He in Himself complete is the 'Groom', He is a Husband, but there is to be a marriage, if God was both male and female He cannot be a 'Husband' and He cannot be a Groom.

And even of the first Adam as it is written; no bride, no suiter, no woman could be found and Lord God said "I is not good for man to be alone, I will make him a help meet for him."

but before did God already say that there could not be found a help meet for Adam. There was so a need for one, but not one did God find suitable for Adam so he formed a woman a female from the Adam's rib - his own DNA, but a female as much as Adam was male, and then for this reason that two now come together wherefore before but one....

[/quote]

It may take me a little while to go through the website, there is a fair amount of information.

Staight away at a glance I would inquire as to what material was the said 'Tibetan' manuscripts written on? If they are outside traditional canon, then they are suspect and would take a great deal of evidence to validate them....

Cup-of-Ruin · Aug 18, 2009

I wonder if it is actually worth my time going through a whole website when it's based on - there are some mysterious forgotten 'Tibetan' manuscripts, alarm bells start ringing straight away when I hear that!

Ryan1976 · Aug 18, 2009

wattie said:

I decided to post these from a few protestant websites because I know people seem to take issue with Orthodoxy. However, Orthodox are not alone in refuting this heresy. I'm referring to Modalism. There are clever ways of adding onto this heresy of course, band-aids which address prior "flaws". However, it's mucho importante to recognize

Trinity is vital to our relationship with Him. I can't stress this enough.

from http://www.basictheology.com/definitions/Modalism/
Modalism

The anti-Trinitarian belief that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are “modes” of God, but not true persons capable of interacting with one another.

The early church initially struggled with the question of whether Jesus was fully God (see Ebionism, Docetism, and Adoptionism) in the same sense as the Father. Once the councils agreed that Jesus is fully God (as is the Holy Spirit), they struggled to reconcile this with monotheism.

Modalism offered a simple and enticing solution. Its proponents taught that God is a mono-personal being that can change “modes,” assuming the role of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at different times. Webster’s metaphysical definition for mode is “the form, or way of being, of something, as distinct from its substance.” Modalism teaches that God has one substance, but several “ways of being.” The common illustration that the Trinity is like the forms of water–ice, liquid, and steam–unfortunately is an exact representation of Modalism rather than Trinitarianism.

Although Modalism initially has appeal in its simplicity, it is a dangerous teaching because it misunderstands not only “what” God is, but more importantly, “who” God is and therefore who we are. If the Father, Son, and Spirit are only modes of God (or “masks” as some taught), then the God behind the mask is unknown to us. We are forced to understand the Father, Son and Spirit as illusions and not the true God we desire to know and love. Moreover, if we are God’s children in relation to him as Father, but the Father is an illusion, then our status as his children is also an illusion (Gal 4:6).

Modalism also fails to account for greater than 70 passages in Scripture where the Father, Son and Spirit are mentioned together as distinct from one another and as interacting with one another. In Jesus’ baptism (Matt. 3:16-17), the Father speaks and the Spirit descends upon Jesus. In the Garden of Gethsamane (Mark 14:36) and hanging on the cross (Luke 23:46), Jesus himself prays to Father. John’s Gospel is full of reference to the three person’s relations, not only in their speaking to one another (John 17), but in actions such as “sending” (John 14:24-26; 20:21) and “loving” (John 3:35; 14:32; 15:9). The epistles also show the three persons as distinct. Galatians 1:1 teaches the Father raised the Son; 1 John 2:1 teaches the Christ is an advocate between humanity and the Father; 1 Peter 1:2 teaches different roles for each Person of God in the salvation of man; the relationship between the Father and the Son is given as the modal for the fellowship between believers (1 John 1:3).

Modalism was the most common Trinitarian error in the history of the church and it continues today. Many in the church may inadvertently hold to Modalism without realizing it, but others still openly deny the personal distinctiveness of the Father, Son and Spirit. Groups such as Oneness Pentecostals and the "Jesus only" movement, popular preachers (notably T.D. Jakes), and even some Christian musicians (such as Philips, Craig and Dean, click here for more) are modern Modalists.

And from http://www.theopedia.com/Modalism

Modalism

From Theopedia

Modalism, also called Sabellianism, is the unorthodox belief that God is one person who has revealed himself in three forms or modes in contrast to the Trinitarian doctrine where God is one being eternally existing in three persons. According to Modalism, during the incarnation, Jesus was simply God acting in one mode or role, and the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was God acting in a different mode. Thus, God does not exist as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time. Rather, He is one person and has merely manifested himself in these three modes at various times. Modalism thus denies the basic distinctiveness and coexistence of the three persons of the Trinity.
Modalism was condemned by Tertullian (c. 213, Tertullian Against Praxeas 1, in Ante Nicene Fathers, vol. 3). Also known as Sabellianism, it was condemned as heresy by Dionysius, bishop of Rome (c. 262).
Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God (i.e., who God is). "Present day groups that hold to forms of this error are the United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches. They deny the Trinity, teach that the name of God is Jesus... modalist churches often accuse Trinitarians of teaching three gods. This is not what the Trinity is. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

And from Christiandefense.org -- http://www.christiandefense.org/oneness.htm

Introduction to Oneness Theology (modalism)
As with Jehovah's Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals reject the historic biblical doctrine of the Trinity. They teach that Jesus IS the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (no distinction of Persons). In Oneness theology God exists as a unipersonal monad, that temporarily manifested as the "modes," "roles," or "offices" of the "Father," the "Son," or the "Holy Spirit" at different times. The unipersonal deity of Oneness theology lives in absolute solitude. Hence they deny that God has revealed Himself in three distinct coequal, coeternal, and coexistent Persons. In the end, their theology is decidedly unitarian, which denies the the Person Jesus Christ as revealed in Scripture.

Examining the Oneness Claim that Jesus is His Own Father
In Oneness theology Jesus IS both Father and Son (and Holy Spirit). Jesus is the name of the unitarian deity that play the different roles of "Father," "Son," and "Holy Spirit." In other words, according to modalism, when we come to Scripture we have to decide if Jesus was speaking as the divine Father or as the human Son. Thus, the modalistic Jesus has two natures: divine, being the Father (and Holy Spirit) and human, as the human "Son."

Examining the Oneness Objections to the Doctrine of the Trinity
In this section we will analyze the main objections that Oneness writers and teachers have concerning the doctrine of the Trinity. However, the arguments used are largely dependent on out-dated nineteenth century Unitarian arguments. The same theologically unsophisticated argumentations are greatly employed by the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Also in this section, the anti-Trinitarian assertions made by UPCI writer and teacher David K. Bernard in his book The Oneness of God are biblically (and logically) refuted.

The Preexistence of the Son see short summery below
All non-Christians cults have one definitive commonality: they deny that Jesus Christ is eternal God. By asserting that God is unipersonal (one Person) Oneness leaders teach that Jesus Christ (as the Person of the Son) did not exist before Bethlehem. As with Jehovah's Witnesses, Oneness theology teaches that the Person of Jesus Christ (distinct from His Father) was created at a point in time. Hence, Jesus is reduced to a mere temporary "manifestation," "role," or "office" called the "Son." (or "dimension" as Oneness advocate T .D. Jakes describes Him in his Doctrinal Statement).

Ryan1976 · Aug 18, 2009

For anyone interested...

1. God is absolutely transcendent. 'No single thing of all that is created has or ever will have even the slightest communion with the supreme nature or nearness to it.' This absolute transcendence Orthodoxy safeguards by its emphatic use of the 'way of negation', of 'apophatic' theology. Positive or 'cataphatic' theology - the way of affirmation - must always be balanced and corrected by the employment of negative language. Our positive statements about God - that He is good, wise, just and so on - are true as far as they go, yet they cannot adequately describe the inner nature of the deity. These positive statements, said John of Damascus, reveal 'not the nature, but the things around nature'. 'That there is a God is clear; but what He is by essence and nature, this is altogether beyond our comprehension and knowledge.'

2. God, although absolutely transcendent, is not cut off from the world which He has made. God is above and outside His creation, yet He also exists within it. As a much used Orthodox prayer puts it, God is 'everywhere present and filling all things'. Orthodoxy therefore distinguishes between God's essence and His energies, thus safeguarding both divine transcendence and divine immanence: God's essence remains unapproachable, but His energies come down to us. God's energies, which are God Himself, permeate all His creation, and we experience them in the form of deifying grace and divine light. Truly our God is a God who hides Himself, yet He is also a God who acts - the God of History, intervening directly in concrete situations.

3. God is personal, that is to say, Trinitarian. This God who acts is not only a God of energies, but a personal God. When humans participate in the divine energies, they are not overwhelmed by some vague and nameless power, but they are brought face to face with a person. Nor is this all: God is not simply a single person confined within His own being, but a Trinity of three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each of whom 'dwells' in the other two by virtue of a perpetual movement of love. God is not only a unity but a union.

4. Our God is an incarnate God. God has come down to humankind, not only through His energies, but in His own person. The Second Person of the Trinity, 'true God from true God', was made human: 'The word (logos) became flesh and dwelt among us'. A closer union than this between God and His creation there could not be. God Himself became one of His creatures.

--- Timothy Ware (the Orthodox Church)

watchmen · Aug 18, 2009

wattie said:

I am happy to call Jesus the Father..

People -- have a mind, body and soul

God-- three expressions or essences-- Father, Son and Holy Spirit

One God.. three expressions.

Got a problem with Jesus talking to the Father before His sacrifice on the cross? Thinking that makes Him seperate?

Well.. our own minds can communicate with our bodies and our spirit can communicate with both aswell.. 3 in one.

God can't communicate with Himself.. talk to Himself? We can.. and we are made in His image.

Jesus.. says Abraham saw Him

Jesus.. gets stoned by the Jews-- for what? Claiming to be the messiah.. to be God

Jesus.. with the Jewish concept of agency.. whenever He speaks for the Father.. does works in the Father's name.. to the Jews.. this is the same as saying He IS the Father

Jesus-- studying out the names of God.. Jesus' name links back to Yahweh in the OT or YHWH.. the personal expression of the Father.. the relational means by which the Father is manifest.

Got an issue with Jesus being seperate in the flesh from teh Father? Well.. that physical seperateness is not there as soon as Jesus ascends to the Father.. and was not there before Jesus was incarnate in the flesh. So it is only temporary physical seperation.

Anyhoo..

Jesus is the Father? YES! I got no problem with that

Me neither, matter of fact I stand by the claim whole heartedly.

jgrig2 · Aug 19, 2009

The horrible comments here don't merit my time. Read the Athanasian Creed to know the Christian view on the trinity. most of you all would be condemned by all of church history for either heresy or so not articulating the trinity you need to go back to the basics. A good catechism is what you all need.

MahogonySnail · Aug 19, 2009

Jesus is not the Father, He is the Son.

wattie · Aug 19, 2009

The one God with three expressions-- this isn't modalism. Genesis-- has God as one being with no other beside Him.. yet the word for God in Genesis is plural-- referring to more than two. So three in one starts to be seen right there.

Then you get God is a Spirit... The Holy Spirit is God.. the revelation of Jesus Christ in Revelation.. becomes the Spirit speaking to the churches.. it goes on and on.. the three essences of God do not always work seperately.. but s together..

The other thing is if there is 3 seperate beings in heaven when I get there.. and each one is fully God.. that is pretty much Polytheism.. that is the problem I have with 3 seperate beings.

But the crux of the matter is this: that we are talking about God here! He can express Himself however He likes.. and we can only grasp what He really looks like to a limited degree..

Consider that the Holy Spirit indwells every believer - is that multiple Holy Spirits? No!

Cup-of-Ruin · Aug 19, 2009

MahogonySnail said:

Snail.

Isaiah 9:6

imoss · Aug 19, 2009

imoss said:

To those of you confused by this post... there was another post above it that was deleted by the mods and I was responding to that. Thank you to the mods!

watchmen · Aug 19, 2009

jgrig2 said:

I am not catholic and do not really care for their man made doctrines. I question why, when the protestants disgarded the rest of the catholics teachings they kept the Trinity. I guess that will be another unsolved mystery.

Ryan1976 · Aug 19, 2009

If you're saying that Jesus prayed to himself, not sure what else it could be other than Modalism. The separate from the Father at his incarnation all the way up to his ascension makes it sound like you are separating Jesus' two natures, as if during that period he was only fully man or possibly just fully God. It sounds like a combination of monophysitism mixed (punny) with modalism.

Your Jewish agency theory reminds me a little of gnosticism wherein it is believed that Satan created all matter and so all material, flesh included, is Evil. I understand that if an angel appeared on behalf of God, it was as if God Himself had appeared b/c to deal with the messenger is not unlike dealing with the King who sent the message, however you have used this to mask an error. This is Sparta?

Jesus was not praying to himself as if the Father put on a Jesus sock puppet and made it look like he was praying to Father just to trick us humans into thinking we were dealing with an actual man who just seemed to be fully man but was actually just fully God - the Father.

It also sounds like your alluding to some other heresy about the resurrection. Jesus resurrected bodily. To say that the flesh separates the Father from the Son like a temporary sock puppet and after his resurrection he just kept the sock puppet on until the ascension where, upon entering the Kingdom, He just took the sock puppet off and allowed His hand to be His hand again, invisible spirit.

To remix Timothy Ware...

The Savior must be both fully God and fully human. No one less than God can save humanity. If Christ is to save, He must be God. But only if He is truly human, as we are, can we humans participate in what He has done for us. A bridge is formed between God and humanity by the Incarnate Christ who is divine and human at once. "Hereafter you shall see the heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man". Not only angels use that ladder, but the human race....

The majority of heresies undermines either Jesus' humanity and or divinity. Jesus is fully God, fully human. In heresy land, either Christ was made less than God (Arianism) or His humanity was so divided from His Godhead that He became two persons instead of one (Nestorianism) or He was not presented as truly human (Monophysitism, Monothelitism) or a bizarre mix of all of the above.

One essence in three persons. God is one and God is three: the Holy Trinity is a mystery of unity in diversity, and of diversity in unity. Father, Son, and Spirit are one in essence "homoousios", yet each is distinguished from the other two by personal characteristics. The divine is indivisible in its divisions, for the persons are united yet not confused, distinct yet not divided, both the distinction and the union alike are paradoxical.

The Father: He is unbegotten, having His source and origin soley in Himself and not in any other person.

The Son: Equal to the Father and coeternal with Him, He is not unbegotten or sourceless, but has His source and origin in the Father, from whom He is begotten or born from all eternity, before all ages.

Procession (The Holy Spirit): like the Son, He has His source and origin in the Father but His relationship to the Father is different from that of the Son, since He is not begotten but from all eternity He proceeds from the Father.

This is where the Catholics, Roman and Orthodox start to raise eyebrows: the filioque. But we won't go there.

God is surely a mystery. However, there are some cases, like this one for instance, where we are able to say what and who God is not.

watchmen · Aug 19, 2009

Ryan1976 said:

Yes this is true and one thing God is not, is three separate beings.

Who is the Father?

stillearning

Guest

Banned

Banned

Banned

Lauren

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest

Banned

Banned

Banned

jgrig2

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned