BLINDNESS

[Walter11]

Now, this is just my own observation which i would love to share with you. Being blind in the bible does not only mean that a person cannot see but can also mean that that person has no knowledge. Take for example the Syrian army that came after Elisha in 2 Kings 6:8. When Elisha prayed and asked God to strike them blind, i noticed that it was not a blindness of their eyes that God had affected, but rather He bloted out all that they knew of Elisha such that when he came and stood right infront of that force of many men with horses and chariots, they could not see him. I have so often heard that we all cannot see what we dont know. Knowledge affects and completes what we see with our eyes. The most incredible thing i have ever see after i understood scripture is a WOMAN. The incident of Elisha is smiller to that of the two guys in Luke 24:13 who only saw Christ when He took the time to expound the scripture for them. This is the greatest nightmare that exists in the churches today. They have been blinded and cannot see satan standing in their mist. We have to carefully take the time to study and understand the scripture failer to which we will remain blind even to KNOWING THE TIME OF CHRISTS RETURN which we all ought to know. Have your say guys and may God bless you all my dear brothers and sisters with eyes that see.

 

[Walter11]

Notice what is said in Matthew 24:15. It would be impossible to SEE what Christ ment unless we FIRST carefully understand what the book of Daniel says.

 

[wattie]

The blindness I see in churches is taking individual verses- wrenching them out of their context.. and applying them wrongly..

Example-

"Where two or three are gathered in my name there I am with them"

This gets used for saying that Jesus dwells with christians willy-nilly.. wherever they meet as two or 3. How many excited christians speaking at a conference or home group pronounce this?

The context of this verse is about conflict resolution.. the right process for it in a church family. So it isn't meant to be applied to all kinds of situations.. but between sinning brothers who take their issue to the elders of a church.. then Jesus acknowledges this an dwells with them in a special way.


"He who endures to the end will be saved"

I think this individual verse gets attached to eternal salvation for many.. but the context has no eternal salvation attached to it.. but deliverance from trials and persecution. "Saved" as in delivered.. rescued.. not eternally saved. "Saved" in the bible does not always mean eternal salvation.

"Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever"

This gets used for saying Jesus does the same things the way He did in the early churches..

The context of this verse is not about an unchanging way of dealing with His people.. but an unchanging nature. He has always been the same in nature since forever..

God has worked in different ways and covenants with His people.. but not changed His nature..

God-- promised never to flood the earth again. This promise manifest by the rainbow.
God-- had a covenant of service using sacrificing animals in the OT.. this changed in the NT to service through faith.. no chane in the nature of God.. only the way He dealt with His people.


"A day with God is a thousand years"-- used to justify God using evolution

The context of this verse is not about creation.. but awaiting Jesus' 2nd coming. It isn't about the age of the earth.. so why apply it that way?


It goes on and on..

Ignoring context of verses is the biggest and most common crime that is prevalent today.

Like the guy who opened the bible randomly.. and it said "Judas hung himself" .. He didn't like that, so he opened it again.. and it said "Go thus and do likewise" !

This is not sound bible reading!

Scripture interprets itself.. and context is key

 

[pickles]

As Jesus said , eyes to see and the ears to hear. I remember the moment when his word became alive and my ears truelly heard. In that moment it all became so alive and the message was clear. Sometimes it is so heartbreaking when you try to witness and you know that the person you are speaking to cannot see or hear. I want so much to wipe the fog from their eyes and ears. But the truth is that all is in the hands of Our Lord Jesus, his will and the desire of the one you are speaking to. Now is the time of a great challange and the battle is against the deciever. So many have chosen to believe in God but a God that is a spirit that they create, not based in Jesus , but what they want God to be . A prophet made up of all spiritual leaders throughout history. All that feels good. That is why what we believe must be based in the word and absolute faith in Jesus Christ our Lord. So many I know say they believe in God yet they reject Jesus as his son. My heart aches for all of these and I pray for the wisdom to reach them. To bad there are not spiritual glasses and hearing aids for this. God bless, pickles

 

[MahogonySnail]

Wattie I'm not sure about that narrow interpretation of Jesus's words. I think it has broader application as well, even if it is only meant to refer to conflict resolution. It would make no sense that Jesus is not in the midst of 2 or 3 for prayer or worship as well.

Gill commentary says

there am I in the midst of them; presiding over them, ruling in their hearts, directing their counsels, assisting them in all they are concerned, confirming what they do, and giving a blessing and success to all they are engaged in. The Jews, though they say there is no congregation less than ten, yet own that the divine presence may be with a lesser number, even as small an one as here mentioned (b).

 

[MahogonySnail]

"Where two or three are gathered in my name there I am with them"

This gets used for saying that Jesus dwells with christians willy-nilly.. wherever they meet as two or 3. How many excited christians speaking at a conference or home group pronounce this?

The context of this verse is about conflict resolution.. the right process for it in a church family. So it isn't meant to be applied to all kinds of situations.. but between sinning brothers who take their issue to the elders of a church.. then Jesus acknowledges this an dwells with them in a special way.

It would be hard for you to argue that Jesus is not in the midst of 2 or 3 Christians gathered, in any holy circumstsance, even if the context is as you say (which I find no support for your statements in most bible commentaries).

"He who endures to the end will be saved"

I think this individual verse gets attached to eternal salvation for many.. but the context has no eternal salvation attached to it.. but deliverance from trials and persecution. "Saved" as in delivered.. rescued.. not eternally saved. "Saved" in the bible does not always mean eternal salvation.

Although the context may be as you said, the flight to the hills resulting in salvation from earthly perils, can also be applied to eternal salvation. Often the words of Jesus and events in the natural can be applied also to the spiritual. The temporal often mirrors the supernatual and eternal. But note two lessons we can learn from this example about God's ways, a) there's no rapture before or during trial, and b) there's no guarantee of salvation without effort on our part.

"Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever"

This gets used for saying Jesus does the same things the way He did in the early churches..

The context of this verse is not about an unchanging way of dealing with His people.. but an unchanging nature. He has always been the same in nature since forever..

God has worked in different ways and covenants with His people.. but not changed His nature..

God-- promised never to flood the earth again. This promise manifest by the rainbow.
God-- had a covenant of service using sacrificing animals in the OT.. this changed in the NT to service through faith.. no chane in the nature of God.. only the way He dealt with His people.

Exactly, good pick up.

"A day with God is a thousand years"-- used to justify God using evolution

The context of this verse is not about creation.. but awaiting Jesus' 2nd coming. It isn't about the age of the earth.. so why apply it that

exactly , good pick up.

 

[wattie]

With the- where two or three are gathered in my name there I am with them..

context:

Deuteronomy in OT -- there is a process for conflict mentioned:

Deu 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

This is related to Matthew:

(Matthew 18:15-20) Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Context-- taking a sinning brother to deal with there trespass - which relates back to the system of witnesses used in the Old Testament. A process for dealing with a sinning brother.
Tell it to the church-- church here - is the visible, local assembly that Jesus had started with His disciples, represented as a general institution. Also this is BEFORE Pentecost.. Jesus started His church before Pentecost.

So.. two or three getting agreement, in the context of church family assembly.

You are right Mahogany though, that it can be applied to other situations.. but it is always within a church family.. local assembly.. not every christian everywhere. So it can apply to meeting in Home groups.. bible study.. but always as a church family thing.

 

[Kyra]

The verse, "Where two or more are gathered..." gets taken out of context and misused so often, I have become resigned to people abusing it.

So it was absolutely REFRESHING to see your post Wattie. THANK YOU.


p.s. I bet 80% of the debates on this forum would be resolved if people would take context into account.

 

[Walter11]

Well, i guess you all missed my point, but never mind anyway. It was just an observation which is not important. God bless you all.

 

[BLC]

The verse, "Where two or more are gathered..." gets taken out of context and misused so often, I have become resigned to people abusing it.

So it was absolutely REFRESHING to see your post Wattie. THANK YOU.


p.s. I bet 80% of the debates on this forum would be resolved if people would take context into account.

You have said it well. Give a specific example of a debate you have witnessed on this forum (other than the one above) that illustrates what you have declared and show how it was either taken out of context and misunderstand or given in the right context and misconstrued by others.

 

[pickles]

Well, i guess you all missed my point, but never mind anyway. It was just an observation which is not important. God bless you all.

I do see you point, It is well said. My observations of what is happening in churchs and among many is that many see only what they want and hear what they choose. Because their sight does not rest in Jesus. Sadly many fail to see and much is being lost. Our praise is that Our Lord Jesus is that which gives us the hope. God bless, pickles

 

[Walter11]

I do see you point, It is well said. My observations of what is happening in churchs and among many is that many see only what they want and hear what they choose. Because their sight does not rest in Jesus. Sadly many fail to see and much is being lost. Our praise is that Our Lord Jesus is that which gives us the hope. God bless, pickles

One thing all christian should know is that satan would not want us to see the truth who we all know to be Christ. He has simply replaced the true gosple with another that looks so much like the true gosple thus the kind of god most people have in their mind and hearts is like unto an image made by the hand of man. The bible is like Gods identification card, we have to read and understand it to SEE the difference.