Casting Lots (Approved and rarely practiced)

[Jon4TheCross]

Act 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

G2819
κλῆρος
klēros
klay'-ros
Probably from G2806 (through the idea of using bits of wood, etc., for the purpose); a die (for drawing chances); by implication a portion (as if so secured); by extension an acquisition (especially a patrimony, figuratively): - heritage, inheritance, lot, part.


I totally understand why casting lots is not something practiced by the majority of gatherings, but I believe it is because it is either not understood, or most gatherings do not feel comfortable with no single individual or single groups of individuals being in control of decisions that affect the whole group.

When churches simply vote on everything, with no respect of persons, and everybody just gets one vote, then at the least the group is growing together, and nobody can take the blame. It requires us to trust God with the ability to sway the hearts and minds of individuals, and it promotes true unity.

I see voting as a form of casting lots, because the vote (if done correctly) cannot be known by us before hand. The vote may be encouraged by motivation, but God knows when we will start voting, and He has can certainly change our hearts and minds.

Any thoughts on casting lots? I haven't thought of any other ways that people might be willing to accept, except for voting with all having one vote, and voting even on how to vote. I personally would go along with the vote as long as it didn't go against scripture, and if it did, then I have a better idea of the group I'm currently involved in.


Pro_16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.
Pro_18:18 The lot causeth contentions to cease, and parteth between the mighty.

Sounds good to me Any ideas on how to promote this in churches?

 

[kenisyes]

The trouble with voting, is we get the majority opinion. Is that God's opinion?

 

[WolfInOxHide]

It is perfectly ok to "flip a coin" to "make a decision", if one has faith that the outcome is guided by the Spirit rather than random physics, and be willing to adhere to the outcome.

Black stone (nay) and white stone (yay) from the pocket on the high priest's breastplate.
The priest can tell which is which by feeling them, because he knows the stones.
So, he can reach in and secretly choose in righteousness, attributing the outcome to YHWH because of the priest's own righteous intent, (ergo, two stones in the first place instead of a publicly witnessed coin toss), or if he righteously doubts his own discernment he can shake the breastplate and just choose the one nearest the opening in faith.

However, based on my study of the passage about choosing the replacement apostle, I believe they simply voted by casting their black and white stones toward each of the two men. Each of the voters understanding and acting as a priest with a breastplate of discernment as afore mentioned. They would have understood the breastplate routine I would think.

"You lord, knower of the hearts of all"
I believe this includes the hearts of the voters. If they were truly apostles, they would have checked their selves more so than the guys being chosen from.
Cast - give
Lots - allotments

I see no indication of "randomness"
My strong's doesn't link to 2806 (break in pieces), though I take strong's definitions very cautiously in the first place.

Either way, "random" or "vote", the key is that they prayed about it first and that's what sanctifies the process.

 

[Newluke]

The trouble with voting, is we get the majority opinion. Is that God's opinion?

I'm not sure; was it God's will Obama won the elections? But then again, what would the alternative have been...
Apparently casting lots WAS a good idea at some point, but only because the apostles had to make a REALLY important decision: the new 12th apostle had to be chosen.
Casting lots as a way of finding out 'God's opinion' is always also testing God in a way (Deuteronomy 6:16, Matthew 4:7), so it shouldn't be done on trivial matters. It's still OUR decision that the outcome IS God's will, and in doing so we determine HOW God makes that will known to mankind. HE IS GOD and should be autonomous in the communication of His will to us. The new 12th apostle was clearly important enough for the lots to be cast.
I don't think nowadays mankind is faced with decisions that are important enough for lots to be cast. We should pray and read our Bible to find out God's will instead. We're not like pagan shamanic priests that cast bones or coins or whatever to find out the will of the spirits.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I'm not saying that voting is a way to find out Gods opinion. I'm saying that it's healthy, because anyone can really understand the people they are united with by understanding the direction of the vote. Either way a person can leave (if the vote is not in line with scripture) or stay. It's about unity, and doing things together. In certain circumstances (like if there was a vote on what the necessities of life are) then I believe I would submit to that vote no matter what is determined, for the sake of unity.

Pro_16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.
Pro_18:18 The lot causeth contentions to cease, and parteth between the mighty.

 

[spirit1st]

We Do not need to cast lots! We go right to GOD with our Prayers! He hears our every thought! He speaks to us in our Minds! First we must be born again !Then the Relationship is started and Never Ends !!!

 

[loveme1]

Act 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

G2819
κλῆρος
klēros
klay'-ros
Probably from G2806 (through the idea of using bits of wood, etc., for the purpose); a die (for drawing chances); by implication a portion (as if so secured); by extension an acquisition (especially a patrimony, figuratively): - heritage, inheritance, lot, part.


I totally understand why casting lots is not something practiced by the majority of gatherings, but I believe it is because it is either not understood, or most gatherings do not feel comfortable with no single individual or single groups of individuals being in control of decisions that affect the whole group.

When churches simply vote on everything, with no respect of persons, and everybody just gets one vote, then at the least the group is growing together, and nobody can take the blame. It requires us to trust God with the ability to sway the hearts and minds of individuals, and it promotes true unity.

I see voting as a form of casting lots, because the vote (if done correctly) cannot be known by us before hand. The vote may be encouraged by motivation, but God knows when we will start voting, and He has can certainly change our hearts and minds.

Any thoughts on casting lots? I haven't thought of any other ways that people might be willing to accept, except for voting with all having one vote, and voting even on how to vote. I personally would go along with the vote as long as it didn't go against scripture, and if it did, then I have a better idea of the group I'm currently involved in.


Pro_16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.
Pro_18:18 The lot causeth contentions to cease, and parteth between the mighty.

Sounds good to me Any ideas on how to promote this in churches?

All would have to be Faithful to the practice.

Otherwise it would cause more contention...

 

[Ariel82]

when reading the title the first verses that come to mind are these:

1. Matthew 27:35
   Then they crucified Him, and divided His garments, casting lots, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet: “They divided My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.”
2. Mark 15:24
   And when they crucified Him, they divided His garments, casting lots for them to determine what every man should take

also it would be important to note that they limited it to two people before casting lots to decided who should take Judas place. though i wonder if the words are used in the same way or if they are the same word at all

 

[Jon4TheCross]

We Do not need to cast lots! We go right to GOD with our Prayers! He hears our every thought! He speaks to us in our Minds! First we must be born again !Then the Relationship is started and Never Ends !!!

Any scripture for your claim? I'm not surprised that this is the reaction, but then again, I guess if we don't want to vote, the other option is letting one part decide what all the other parts should do in our current situation?