When you die, you fgo to Heaven or Hell.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
#21
starfield I just re-read your post and see you do not believe that Hell is an actual place. believe me Hell is more real than anything we have ever experiance here on earth.

2nd Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
 
Jul 17, 2009
353
0
0
#22
Revelation 20
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

Hell there is actually Hades, I think - Sheol. They just translated it as "hell". Hell = Lake of Fire.

Dunno, hell is a weird word because it's synonymous with different "places".
 
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
#23
Hell there is actually Hades, I think - Sheol. They just translated it as "hell". Hell = Lake of Fire.

Dunno, hell is a weird word because it's synonymous with different "places".
I would almost believe execpt for Revelation 20:13-15 which clearly states that ''Hell'' will be cast in The Lake of Fire. Seeing as Hell is not cast into itself then they must be two separate places :)
 
D

Derek22

Guest
#24
i believe i will go to heaven, i dont want to think other wise
 
Jul 17, 2009
353
0
0
#25
I would almost believe execpt for Revelation 20:13-15 which clearly states that ''Hell'' will be cast in The Lake of Fire. Seeing as Hell is not cast into itself then they must be two separate places :)
Revelation 20:13-15 (New International Version)

13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.



Revelation 20:13-15 (New American Standard Bible)

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and (A)death and Hades (B)gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them (C)according to their deeds.





Revelation 20:13-15 (English Standard Version)

13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it,(A) Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them,(B) according to what they had done.


Revelation 20:13-15 (New King James Version)

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[a] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.




Second death is kind of like uber-hell. The hell hell.



I was just saying that the word hell is often synonymous with all these places and.....


nvm


:p




C'est la vie


God bless
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
#26
What is cast into the lake of fire by "hell" is death, sheol the grave. It's symbolic for death being defeated once and for all. But if you want to take it literally, it can also mean those who are found in death and hades who are not in the book of life, are thrown into the lake of fire (the real hell).
 
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
#27
Hell is where the sinner goes to await Judgment, The Lake of Fire is where they are sentenced to for eternity
 
L

leendert

Guest
#28
I got this quote from another thread, and in not wanting to re direct that thread off subject I decided to start a new one.
This is wrong. When you die you either go directly to Heaven or directly to Hell. Soul sleep is a false mainly Jehovah Witness teaching.
i Dont aggree. Where does it say you go directly to heaven or hell ? The bible teaches something else..

Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Psa 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Psa 88:12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?


Psa 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.



Ecc 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

To me it sounds like the dead in Christ will be raised " at the last trumpet" So if you are in heaven moments after death, will you have to die again and return to the grave to be resurrected ???? Confusing stuff.

 
S

sealife

Guest
#29
in the testament, death is always written " they sleep, he is sleeping, etc.. so i believe we will sleep till Jesus calls from the sky on a white cloud and with a mighty shout,
" COME HERE!
cant wait for this wonderful time.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#30
To me it sounds like the dead in Christ will be raised " at the last trumpet" So if you are in heaven moments after death, will you have to die again and return to the grave to be resurrected ???? Confusing stuff.
When a believer dies, their immortal soul goes to Heaven while their mortal body returns to the dust of the ground. During the rapture, they will be given an incorruptible and immortal body to be reunited with the soul.

1 Corinthians 15:53-54

53- For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54- So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
 
P

princessdeb4111962

Guest
#31
Ok now I am totally confused about what happens to us,believers when we die.I guess I will pray for an answer.Sorry people but God bless
 
Jul 17, 2009
353
0
0
#32
7th day Adventist?

This is where knowing the whole Sheol thing helps. JWs also believe that hell just equals the grave because they misunderstand Sheol and also use Psalms and Ecclesiastes to support their stance.

However, it's quite clear that the OT account of the resurrection, which is pretty much a footnote in Judaism, wound up becoming the centerpiece of Christianity. This also ties into the Sabbath but what with all the revisionist histories out there, I'll bury the issue (punny?).

No one prior to the resurrection went to be with the Lord in His Kingdom but did have presence with the Lord in Sheol, see Abraham's Bosom.

Your NT verses are easily explained but to accept it you have to deconstruct what you've been taught and overcome your Romaphobia (if you suffer from it).

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Death in this verse doesn't explain the state of our soul nor does it indicate the soul's location. However, it does explain that the body is "dead". The body itself is what will be raised imperishable. The expiration date on our flesh is a reality. Everyone's body pretty much* has a number. The one who sins will die. However, the soul who is found in Christ has no Expiration date.

We also have to understand that early early Jews didn't even have a revelation of the Kingdom as we know it today. That's why there was (and rightly so) so much emphasis on what we do here, now, before going off into the deep sleep*, matters. If you lived long, had children, grandchildren etc. you were considered blessed. For the righteous, God grants years to a life that is like a vapor, a passing dust.

Prior to the resurrection there was a disconnect between men, made in the image of God, and because the gap between God and man had not been bridged, there was no way for man to enter the Kingdom. The sacraments of the past stood in as mere placeholders (shadows) for what, or I should say Who, was to come and replace those placeholders with the real deal. After Jesus those placeholders were replaced, as they are with us today, and no longer is there, even after the physical body "sleeps" is there anything that can separate us from Him. We have a go pass in regards to entering the Kingdom.

Life after death is one thing. Life after, life after death is another thing.

Life after death in the post-resurrection age allows us to, through Christ, have presence with the Lord (any Pauline verses bouncing around in your head?) after we lose the tent (body).

What we are truly truly looking forward to though is when we get those tents back (resurrection of the *dead) and all of the material world is outwardly transformed as we are now being transformed/conformed inwardly.

The old world is passing away, is already dead in fact because of the crucifixion, and the new world is being established. The two worlds are kind of being sewn together, intertwining. That which is truly dead will not remain but that which is found in Christ will be renewed. We look forward to endgame where all disease, corruption etc. will only be a memory or possibly altogether blotted out.

What death and disease? Never heard of it!

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

When God breathed into the mud mold, Adam became. The body and the soul, "God's breath/life" was 1. Inseparable. However, Adam and Eve disobeyed and Death (of the body and of a spiritual disconnect) occurred. Prior to Death and the disconnect, Adam and Eve were purposed to be in full communion with God and were in a relationship with him where that process was being lived out. Death was never part of the game plan. Death is unnatural. It goes against God's original purpose for humanity. Now that we're in a post-fall world, what is un-natural seems natural. Miracles and all of God's works seem un-natural when they are actually, what are, in regards to our true purpose - 100% grade A natural. The proto-type.

So, whether we admit or not, we are spiritual "beings". If you have breath in you, that breath can be traced back to the Adam and we all know where Adam got his breath.

In reality (God's reality) the body matters. All of creation matters/is spiritual. Everything was and is created to be in communion with Him.

Everything that was made was made through Jesus, in order that, if we are found in him, we can then heal and restore what was lost in the garden. Have communion with God, like in the beginning. Jesus is 2nd Adam, the reversal of the fall. Jesus takes us back to the garden.

However, anything not found in Christ, in this post-fall world, must be found in Christ. Otherwise, it will perish. So, that which is corruptible, the body, creation, etc. can, if found in Christ, in the end, be raised incorruptible. New Heaven, New Earth.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

Romans 8:19-21 (New International Version)

19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that[a] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.


Galatians 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

This is Endgame. This doesn't explain life after death but life after, life after death.

1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—

Romans 5:14
Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

Romans 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:5
If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.


Christ IS resurrected...

2 Corinthians 5:1 (New International Version)

1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.


Revelation 1:18
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Revelation 2:10
Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Revelation 2:11
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.

2 Corinthians 4:6-16 (New International Version)

6For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"[a]made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.



7But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. 8We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; 9persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 10We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.



13It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken."[b]With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.
16Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.
 
Jul 17, 2009
353
0
0
#33
in the testament, death is always written " they sleep, he is sleeping, etc.. so i believe we will sleep till Jesus calls from the sky on a white cloud and with a mighty shout,
" COME HERE!
cant wait for this wonderful time.
Body sleeps. We on the other hand, are wide awake.
 
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
#34
Originally Posted by leendert

To me it sounds like the dead in Christ will be raised " at the last trumpet" So if you are in heaven moments after death, will you have to die again and return to the grave to be resurrected ???? Confusing stuff.
When a believer dies, their immortal soul goes to Heaven while their mortal body returns to the dust of the ground. During the rapture, they will be given an incorruptible and immortal body to be reunited with the soul.

1 Corinthians 15:53-54

53- For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54- So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Exactly starfield, and in 1st Thess 4:13-18 it tell us that the dead return with Christ from Heaven, and then their bodies are raised from thre grave to re-unite with their spirits/souls.
1st Thess 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Check out verse 14 in paricular it clearly says the dead in Christ are returning with Christ and where is Christ returning from? Heaven.
 
L

leendert

Guest
#36
Romaphobia ??? lol !!!
1Ti 6:15 Who in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only has immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.

Who has immortality ? The King of kings and the Lords of lords.

What is a soul ?

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

dust of the ground + breath of life = living soul

What happens when we die ?

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dustH6083 returnH7725 toH5921 the earthH776 as it was:H7945 H1961 and the spiritH7307 shall returnH7725 untoH413 GodH430 whoH834 gaveH5414 it.
H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

Your body returns to dust and Gods life breath returns to Him.
 
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
#37
Real quick let me re-address the location of Hell, I look up the word ''heart used in Matthew 12:40
Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
An oddly enough it is the same Greek word ''Kardia'' that is used when speaking of the heart or emotions of a human, but when I look at what it actually meant it means.....the heart figuritively speaking, the oughts or felling of a persons, the mind, or middle. So seeing as the Earth is not a person and has no feeling or thoughts, the reference to the heart of the earth has to mean exactly what I had originally thought which is the middle or center of the earth. That is where Hell is located, that is where Jesus descended to after His death and before His resurrection.
 
Jul 17, 2009
353
0
0
#38
Romaphobia ??? lol !!!
1Ti 6:15 Who in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only has immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.

Who has immortality ? The King of kings and the Lords of lords.

What is a soul ?

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

dust of the ground + breath of life = living soul

What happens when we die ?

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dustH6083 returnH7725 toH5921 the earthH776 as it was:H7945 H1961 and the spiritH7307 shall returnH7725 untoH413 GodH430 whoH834 gaveH5414 it.
H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

Your body returns to dust and Gods life breath returns to Him.


If you click HERE you can watch a little video (somewhat corny at the intro :p) that will explain to you an Orthodox perspective on what happens after "death". The name of the video is WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DIE? (disclaimer, there's a guy that looks like a Catholic priest so keep your blood pressure cuff handy and consult yer doctor if you have or suffer from severe Romaphobia).

Also, a little disclaimer here. He mentions Toll Houses which is a kind of purgatoryesque teaching. However, this is not dogmatic. What I mean is, there are some teachings in Orthodoxy which are, though they may be true are not something that is required to be believe in, in order to receive salvation. Personally, I am not too keen on the tollhouse stuff. However, the theology behind it does seem to confirm some kind of lurking suspicion I have about death, but like all of my "suspicions" I keep them in a special folder in my mind labeled - "dunno, don't dwell on it, pray for wisdom and cross that bridge if and when you get to it"


God bless
 
S

suaso

Guest
#39
Some things I am reminded of...

First, I know a great monk who likes to remind people who are being particularly belligerent: "Hell's a real place." ;)

Secondly, I am reminded of one of my favorite prayers from Compline (night prayer): "Protect us, O Lord, as we stay awake, watch over us as we sleep; that awake we may keep watch with Christ, and asleep rest in his peace."

Thirdly: I have no idea what the doctrine of "Soul Sleep" is. I have never heard of it, so any elaboration would be appreciated.

Fourthly: The idea of purgatory is this: When you die, you will either go to heaven or hell. When you die ****ed, you go to hell, and that's the end of it. When you die saved, you are headed for Heaven, but first, chances are you will have to go to purgatory before you may enter the perfection of the presence of God in heaven, since nothing unclean may enter heaven. Now, most of us do what we can to avoid sin and live a Christian life, but most of us fall so short of the glory of God. We are all attached to certain sins that we can't seem to shake from us. We die still attached to these sins. Even if we are saved, we may still die with these attachments that incline us to commit sin, and it is in Purgatory that we are purged of the desire that our soul still has that renders it attached to sinful behavior. No one knows for certain how purgatory is supposed to do this, what happens there specifically, or how "long" it takes temporally, but it is believed to happen. Some people might not have to go to purgatory, but I don't guess that there are many who don't. Purgatory is a place for those who die saved and will live in heaven for all eternity. The ****ed do not go to purgatory, they go straight to hell for all eternity.

I like to think of purgatory as one of those radiation-decontamination processes you see in spy movies. The agent is exposed to trace amounts of radiation (sin/attachment to sin) and has to go through the whole process of removing contaminated clothes and getting a weird chemical shower (purgatory) before being admitted back into the pristine, clean, sterile laboratory (heaven).

Ryan1976: You might want to warn people more if you send them Orthodox links. The first time I walked into an Orthodox church, the priest was walking around and had a most righteous Orthodox priest-beard, and I thought "What is a Muslim doing in here?" Typical un-cultured Latin Catholics and our ignorance of the East :D
 
S

suaso

Guest
#40
Oh, in the above post, some of my terminology was...filtered?

I typed the word that is the opposite of saved, starts with a 'D', and ends with 'amned.'

:D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.