Christ Jesus the Lord second coming in 2018

watchmen · Aug 22, 2009

You must see something I do nto in sisteren's post the is no mention of the tribulation being any time legnth at all, but she does correctly state the truth that Jesus returns after the tribulation not a day before that therefore it cannot be tomorrow as many in the church have been falsely taught to believe.

watchmen · Aug 22, 2009

jgrig2 said:

Dispensationalist are pretrib sisterren obviously is not. you should atleast know what she believes before you tell her she is wrong. She is no dispensationalist.

BLC · Aug 22, 2009

loveschild said:

You should take God's side according to the scriptures instead of being a fence straddler. You should agree with God and what the scriptures testify concerning Christ and the church. If you are not sure then you should put yourself under a teaching ministry and have your heart settled in the truth, and I don't mean Joyce Meyers, who is a beautiful Christian. Oneness and unity will only come to those that live experientially in the body of Christ and are serving Christ by grace in the government of that body.

When you live as an independent Christian with no local body or assembly that teaches the word and doctrine you will never know the mind of Christ or be able to think with God in the details of life. Your understanding of God's word will be limited to your own capacity to perceive truth without having to submit to those that God has given to the church who teach us doctrine and who have rule over us in the body, the church. In God's organic body where we are members one of another we learn to submit to what we have been taught and to submit to one another in the fear of God. All this is in your Bible and there are those that God has raised up for the church as pastor-teachers who have been equipped for that very task..

sisterren11492 · Aug 22, 2009

jgrig2 said:

I do not believe in a 7 year tribulation or pre-trib rapture because scripture teaches us the tribulation is for 3 1/2 years and Jesus comes immediately after the 3 1/2 years of tribulation. Also I do not read the left behind series. I read and study the Word of God cause it is the only TRUTH!

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Time = 1 year.
Times = 2 years.
Half/Div. Time - 1/2 year.
42 Months = 3 1/2 years.

sisterren11492 · Aug 22, 2009

BLC said:

Many people believe the Great Tribulation is the Wrath of God when it scripture shows us clearly it is the wrath of Satan... Revelation 12:12.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Tribulation is for 3 1/2 years has I showed clearly in my last post. We see the rise of the antichrist, false prophet, two witnesses being killed and persecution of the saints (Christians).

God's Wrath is poured out on the wicked not the righteous (saints/Christians)

According to scripture God's Wrath is the Seven Vials which are the Seven Last Plagues:

Rev 15:1 ¶ And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Rev 16:1 ¶ And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Cretien · Aug 22, 2009

I asked because it looks like if we subtract 2018 - 7 years, the tribulation period begins in 2011.

MahogonySnail · Aug 22, 2009

I think as late as out to 2050 to 2100 is a more plausible time. But that is under no inspiration from the Spirit purely my own guess work based on world events and history.
If can pinpoint the right time and season, you can then have a fair idea of the range of possible years it could occur.

watchmen · Aug 22, 2009

sisterren11492 said:

Amen sisterren, you are 100% correct. Good to see the truth is being revealed.

watchmen · Aug 22, 2009

sisterren11492 said:

Many people believe the Great Tribulation is the Wrath of God when it scripture shows us clearly it is the wrath of Satan... Revelation 12:12.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Tribulation is for 3 1/2 years has I showed clearly in my last post. We see the rise of the antichrist, false prophet, two witnesses being killed and persecution of the saints (Christians).

God's Wrath is poured out on the wicked not the righteous (saints/Christians)

According to scripture God's Wrath is the Seven Vials which are the Seven Last Plagues:

Rev 15:1 ¶ And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Rev 16:1 ¶ And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Amen sisterren

MahogonySnail · Aug 22, 2009

The 7 years comes from Daniel starting from when the anti-christ comes on the scene.

Admittedly, the first 3.5 years are not great times of tribulation, but it is generally accepted that this is the start of the "tribulation period" so we get "7 year tribulation".

The number 7 is very symbolic so we have to keep that in mind if we're talking about chronology, it will probably be less or more than 7 years in our calender time. The division of 7 into two is also symbolic, and we might miss that if we think the tribulation period is only 3.5 years.

sisterren11492 · Aug 25, 2009

Paul referred to the "Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto HIM" as that day...2 Thess. 2:1-3

Notice Paul did not separate these two events but made it clear they would happen on the same day!

Jesus said He would raise us up on the last day... John 6:39, 40, 44, 54

Martha said to Jesus that she knew her brother Lazarus shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day...John 11:24

We have Jesus, Martha and Paul all saying this event (Coming of Christ, Our Gathering together unto Him, the Resurrection) would happen on the last day.

The last day is also referred as the last trumpet... 1 Cor. 15:52

What is my point?

If this wonderful event happens on the last day....

Then how could the Church/Saints/Christians already be resurrected and in heaven 7 years or 3 1/2 years before the last day?

Jordan9 · Aug 25, 2009

Here's a parable, guys. Say your parent/spouse made a pie, but the pie is for a bake sale so you can't eat it. Do you wait for your parent/spouse to leave the house, eat the pie, and then try and gauge when your parent/spouse is going to come back, so you can dispose of the evidence? You could do that, but the more sensible thing to do is to just not eat the pie in the first place.

That's sort of how I feel about the End. Perhaps it is because I'm young, but I am more in favour of living in the now. Are you guys really that anxious for the end to come, when only 1/6 of the world professes to be Christian (and fewer probably walk the walk)? I'm not.

beefy · Aug 25, 2009

Very good.Right on. Here are some more verses that should be considered when discussing the "rapture" advocated by mainstream Christianity.

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God"

Notice how the verse says "let no man decieve you." This includes pastors as well! According to this, Jesus will not come back until after the son of perdition (AntiChrist, as some call him) is revealed and sits on God's throne.

I'm glad you reminded everyone that Jesus will not come until the last trumpet, or "last day."

And another thing. The will be many Christians, prophets, and saints slain before Jesus returns. In the "Mystery Babylon" described in Revelation 18,

It says in chapter 18:24 "In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth.”

I personally believe that America is the Babylon that the Bible is referring to. Here's why:

This article was written by Peter Goodgame, at this site, http://www.apocalypsesoon.org/xfile-6.html

"'Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries...' This title was written on her forehead:

mystery
Babylon the great
the mother of prostitutes
and of the abominations of the earth

After this passage in the book of Revelation, John records the many disasters that Mystery Babylon must suffer. She will be punished by God and attacked by the Antichrist. Some of her plagues seem to come from nature but others are undoubtedly super-natural. With the wickedness of Mystery Babylon and the wrathful judgement that she receives in mind, and with all of God's end-times prophecies coming into clearer focus, it is important that this major subject of the book of Revelation is not ignored or misunderstood.
According to my research the identity of Mystery Babylon, the world power which precedes the kingdom of the Antichrist, is painfully obvious. With a simple presentation using scripture and logic, I hope that this article will make the case as clear as it can be made.
Which scriptures?
The scriptures that mention Mystery Babylon by name are Revelation 17 and 18. However, many do not realize that there is much more prophetic material written about the fall of Babylon in the Old Testament. These scriptures are Isaiah 13 and 14 and Jeremiah 50 and 51. It is true that there is much Old Testament material that was directed at Babylon and has already been fulfilled, however, much of the above scriptures remain unfulfilled and, based on the descriptions given, could not have been meant for ancient Babylon. As a Christian scholar I believe that all of biblical prophecy is God-given and one hundred percent correct. The simple rule I go by is that if a prophecy has not been fulfilled then that doesn't mean it is false, it just means that we need to wait longer. I believe we can safely apply the Old Testament prophecies that were directed at Babylon and remain unfulfilled to the Babylon of the end-times, that is, "Mystery Babylon," and these prophecies combine to give us a very clear description of that great power.
Descriptions
Mystery Babylon is the lone Global Superpower-
Revelation 17:1, "...the great prostitute, who sits on many waters."
Revelation 17:15, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages."
Revelation 17:18, "The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
Revelation 18:7, "In her heart she boasts, 'I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.'"
A global superpower in three ways-
Economic Superpower-

Revelation 18:3, "...and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."
Revelation 18:11, "The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more..."
Revelation 18:15, "The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment..."
Revelation 18:23, "...Your merchants were the world's great men. By your magic spell all the nations were led astray."

Military Superpower-

Jeremiah 50:23, "How broken and shattered is the hammer of the whole earth!"
Jeremiah 51:20, "You are my war club, my weapon for battle- with you I shatter nations, with you I destroy kingdoms,"
Isaiah 14:4-6, "...How the oppressor has come to an end! How his fury has ended! The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked, the scepter of the rulers, which in anger struck down peoples with unceasing blows, and in fury subdued nations with relentless aggression."

Political Superpower-

Jeremiah 51:44, "...The nations will no longer stream to him..."
Revelation 17:18, "The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
Revelation 18:9-10, "When the kings of the earth... see the smoke of her burning... they will stand far off and cry: 'Woe! Woe, O great city, O Babylon, city of power! In one hour your doom has come!"

Major Port City-

Revelation 18:17-19, "...all who travel by ship... and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off... and with weeping and mourning cry out: 'Woe! Woe, O great city, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth!' "

Greatest and Wealthiest city the world has ever seen-

Revelation 18:18, "When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, 'Was there ever a city like this great city?' "
Revelation 18:16, "Woe! Woe, O great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls! In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!"
Revelation 18:14, "The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your riches and splendor have vanished..."
Isaiah 13:19, "Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms, the glory of the Babylonians pride..."
Jeremiah 51:13, "You who live by many waters and are rich in treasures, your end has come..."

Home to a large population of Jewish Exiles-

Jeremiah 51:45, "Come out of her, my people! Run for your lives! Run from the fierce anger of the Lord."
Revelation 18:4, "Come out of her my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues,"
Zechariah 2:7, "Come, O Zion! Escape, you who live in the Daughter of Babylon!"

Mystery Babylon is represented by a Woman-

Revelation 17:1, "...I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters... ...the waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages."
Revelation 17:18, "The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

Mystery Babylon is dressed in expensive garments-

Revelation 18:16, "Woe! Woe, O great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet..."

The above descriptions are just a few of the many biblical indicators that, I believe, point unequivocally and obviously to America as the great power known as Mystery Babylon, and New York City as the specific city destined to fall in Revelation 18. Let me show you how America in general, and New York City in particular, fits the biblical descriptions of Mystery Babylon:

Please, please read the remainder of the article before criticizing it. The author goes into great detail regarding these claims. And it is an excellent read.

Remember what the Bible says, "Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21

God bless.

MahogonySnail · Aug 25, 2009

While the US is a prime contender for that title of Babylon, there is also China, the EU, and other great "super power" entities in the world that could take such a title. China in particularly is well known for its current and past persecution of the Christian faith and most religions, and possibly is more 'pagan', than the USA ever was, is, or perhaps will be. Although America could be considered pagan in its worship of Deism and "God", but not specifically Jesus Christ.

Traditional protestant theologians from the past few centuaries interpreted it to be the Roman Empire in bible times, later to become Papal Rome, the religious extension of the Roman Empire. But right now, I think America sits as prime contender. America is also very much tied in with the Roman Catholic church.

Mystery Babylon is represented by a Woman - statue of liberty?

beefy · Aug 25, 2009

Here is some more from the article:

"

Here is a carving of the goddess Inanna/Ishtar which, according to Richard Coombes, dates to about 3000 BC.
Compare it to our modern Statue of Liberty.

"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits," Revelation 17:9 (NIV).

The above passage is most often used by those who would like to identify end-times Babylon with the Roman Catholic Church. It is well known that at one time Rome was built over seven hills. However, the Greek word that the NIV translates as "hill" is the word hora. This word is more accurately interpreted by the KJV and other versions as "mountain." The Greek word for "hill" is the word bounos. This word is one that was borrowed from Latin after the Roman conquests specifically to refer to the "hills" of Rome. To my knowledge there is no reference in ancient Greek literature that describes the hills of Rome as "seven hora," and they are always referred to as "the seven bounos of Rome." There is no precedent whatsoever to use the word hora to describe the seven hills of Rome.

The primary definition of the Greek word hora is "mountain," but it could also be used to refer to "vast expanse," "large land mass," or "continent." The official Statue of Liberty website (http://www.nps.gov/stli/prod02.htm) has this to say about the seven-rayed crown which she wears,
"The seven rays of the Statue's crown represent the seven seas and continents of the world." "...the great prostitute, who sits on many waters." Revelation 17:1
"The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages," 17:15.
"There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that... had seven heads and ten horns." 17:3
"The seven heads are seven hora on which the woman sits." 17:9.

The prophet Zechariah witnessed the removal of the demonic spiritual force that once inspired the ancient nation of Babylon. This woman was placed in a basket and Zechariah was told that she was being taken away to a new land where Babylon would again re-emerge.

Then the angel who was speaking to me came forward and said to me, "Look up and see what this is that is appearing." I asked, "What is it?" He replied, "It is a measuring basket. " And he added, "This is the iniquity of the people throughout the land." Then the cover of lead was raised, and there in the basket sat a woman! He said, "This is wickedness," and he pushed her back into the basket and pushed the lead cover down over its mouth. Then I looked up--and there before me were two women, with the wind in their wings! They had wings like those of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between heaven and earth. "Where are they taking the basket?" I asked the angel who was speaking to me. He replied, "To the country of Babylonia to build a house for it. When it is ready, the basket will be set there in its place."
Zechariah 5:5-11

On October 28th, 1886, President Grover Cleveland accepted the Statue of Liberty on behalf of the United States. In the ceremony which celebrated the unveiling of this ancient pagan deity, he spoke these words,
"We will not forget that Liberty has here made her home;
nor shall her chosen altar be neglected."

The quote from President Grover Cleveland can be verified at the official Statue of Liberty website- http://www.nps.gov/stli/prod02.htm

Interesting, huh?

MahogonySnail · Aug 25, 2009

Yeah, I'd remembered from ages ago about the statue of liberty. Wasn't it donated by the French? France is one of the most godless countries as well. Interestingly, much of what Americans denote as independence and freedom from emperialist powers such as the British, may in fact actually be the step away from God and towards downfall. Particularly since the Queen or King of England was considered the "defender of the faith". If I were American, I'd find it hard to be patriotic and also believe in the book of Revelation. France - chopped off all those monarchists heads in the guillotine. Religious persecution was also part of it. Rebellion against the then godly authorities -- I wonder?

From what you said about describing Rome, there is nothing wrong with applying this prophecy to multiple events in history. That is the nature of prophecy. Because human nature doesn't change, nor God's, there will be repetition of prophecy in history. So first and foremost, Revelation was written to comfort the church under persecution at the time - mostly from the Roman Empire. But this doesn't mean that prophecy doesn't repeat itself in history and in the last days it can be applied to the Roman Empire equivalent in our time. I have no problem seeing that hills reference as refering to both Rome and something else in a future time.

MahogonySnail · Aug 25, 2009

What I'm saying is there's no need to get so detailed or hung up on individual words such as :

hora in the mind of the author of Revelation probably meant Rome, as Rome sat on a mountain. Rome is hilly, and sits on seven hills. But it doesn't discount America as fulfilling the prophecy at a future time, just because America is really a very large land mass or continent. Certainly, the author of Revelation would not have had America in mind, it didn't even exist yet. And remember, Babylon in the bible is referred to as a great city, not a great continent, showing that Rome was in the author's mind.

broken · Aug 25, 2009

remember 88 reasons jesus is comming back in 1988? Some kook is always blabbing about this nonsense. He'll come like a thief in the night. If we knew when a thief was comming we'd be awake to stop him...

watchmen · Aug 25, 2009

broken said:

Jesus is returning as a theif to the wicked only not to the righteous. The righteous will know when He is coming.

1st Thessalonians 5:2-4
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, bretheren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
You see that day will not overtake us '' the righteous'' unaware as a thief but only the unbelieving.
Luke 21:26-28
26 Mens hearts falling them for fear, and for looking after those thins that are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
When the tribulation is at it's worse we will know are redemption is drawing near, but the wicked will be going on about their lives.
Matthew 24:37-39
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving into marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came and took them all away, so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
Noah knew the flood was coming and prepared himself accordingly, but the wicked knew not and were destroyed unaware. So too, will we know Jesus is returning to destroy the wicked and we will be prepared accordingly, but the wicked will be taken off guard, To them he returns as a thief not to us.

broken · Aug 25, 2009

Ok so what's the date Watchmen? havn't got one yet.... ;-)

Christ Jesus the Lord second coming in 2018

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