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L
Are you an alcoholic? If yes, stay away from for it. If not, define what you mean by addicted. I have a glass or two of wine almost every night. I wouldn't call this an addiction. I see it more as a liberty.
If you are truly being convicted not to drink (be sure it is really the Holy Spirit), then you should heed the conviction. Be very careful about the advice you receive in here and other forums, as we all have our own “opinions,” and that is all they really are.
If you are truly being convicted not to drink (be sure it is really the Holy Spirit), then you should heed the conviction. Be very careful about the advice you receive in here and other forums, as we all have our own “opinions,” and that is all they really are.
R
The fact that you even ask about it may be a good sign that God is speaking to you regarding this..
It says in Romans 14 :21 that is it right for you to abstain from certain meats and wine,or anything else that would cause a brother to stumble..
If it caused you to stumble or has in the past..i merely encourage you to pray about it. I used to be a huge beer lover myself..a self proclaimed beer nerd i was, knowing the different types and actually going to bars once in a while..While the drinking a beer may not be a sin, it can surely lead to a sin, or one too many can cause to get you a DUI driving home while intoxicated, your inhibitions are lowered with the consumption of alcohol(my personal experience has shown me this in my own life even) so while i do not say Drinking is a sin, it can lead to sin..it can cause many heartaches..drunk drivers kill many...alcohol may lower your inhibitions more than you want that would make you sin or surely tempt you to. And if nothing else, it may cause a brother to stumble..so why do we seek to flaunt our freedom and lead a brother astray? Whom which Christ died for? 1 corinthians 8:11
So..as much as i used to enjoy an unfiltered Wheat beer once in a while..for my brother's sake..for my sister's sake..and for your sake, I have chosen to abstain from this, after all..it is not about me, is it?
It says in Romans 14 :21 that is it right for you to abstain from certain meats and wine,or anything else that would cause a brother to stumble..
If it caused you to stumble or has in the past..i merely encourage you to pray about it. I used to be a huge beer lover myself..a self proclaimed beer nerd i was, knowing the different types and actually going to bars once in a while..While the drinking a beer may not be a sin, it can surely lead to a sin, or one too many can cause to get you a DUI driving home while intoxicated, your inhibitions are lowered with the consumption of alcohol(my personal experience has shown me this in my own life even) so while i do not say Drinking is a sin, it can lead to sin..it can cause many heartaches..drunk drivers kill many...alcohol may lower your inhibitions more than you want that would make you sin or surely tempt you to. And if nothing else, it may cause a brother to stumble..so why do we seek to flaunt our freedom and lead a brother astray? Whom which Christ died for? 1 corinthians 8:11
So..as much as i used to enjoy an unfiltered Wheat beer once in a while..for my brother's sake..for my sister's sake..and for your sake, I have chosen to abstain from this, after all..it is not about me, is it?
R
I most humbly and graciously disagree friend..I do not consider the drinking of wine to be a sin, as others of my stance do..but i wish to live for God,so i have chosen to avoid it..and its been a cause of heartache and foolis actions in my past too..so why entertain this anymore? No need to. I do hope you see that those who do choose to abstain do so for many good reasons, including not wishing to ruin their christian witness(I speak from personal experience and conviction of a life once allowed to be licentious and thus profaning the very Name of Christ, my savior) I wish to do better friend..so this has led me to radical choices in how i live my life..
It is the church's disassociation of such habits as sin that these sins runs rampant in the church to begin with. This did not happen several generations ago. Back then, sin was sin. When the church changed their opinions about what sin was, that's when sin infiltrated the church. Now, it's a sickness. Instead of getting spiritual counseling, now many church goers go to the doctor and get medicine, or go to AA meetings. Funny thing, though. Most of these "Christians" aren't getting healed of their "sicknesses". I wonder why?
R
I was when you said that what people would say regarding this issue would be all merely opinions..now I do not know which stance you take regarding consumation in moderation or total abstinence of alcohol. I have heard good defenses of both, but have chosen to abstain, although i used to really enjoy a 'cold one' from time to time..
L
In addition:
You said that you do not consider the drinking of wine to be a sin. The rest of your post is in regards to your personal experiences and opinion. I don't know about everyone else in here, but I don't run my life based on other people’s opinions and life experiences. I don’t throw the Holy Spirit out with the bath water either. If a person is in a right relationship with God they will allow the Holy Spirit to convict them is something is a sin or not.
R
Nice font type..however..onto what you said..
It says in ephesians 5:18 to be not drunk with wine..wherein is excess..
so, that says it for me..in romans 14 at the end it says it is good to abstain from drinking alcohol, if it causes someone to stumble..would you not agree it can possibly cause someone to stumble? Do you wish to hold onto your freedom so tightly that you forget that now that you are a christian(I assume you are) that your life is not any longer your own and what you do and say does really matter? (to God and to the body)
I am not trying to be the Holy spirit to you or for you..or anyone for that matter..but i must be Honest,and challenge you if drinking is a necessary thing for any christian to do..and if it is not..then why do we do it?
L
You need to consider the context my friend.
Rom 14:20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.
The context is, anything that causes your brother to stumble, you should not do it, BUT read verse 20 again. All things indeed are pure, BUT it is evil IF it is eaten (or drank) with offense. This implies to wine as well. You plucked wine out of the passage to support your view, and that is not good Biblical hermeneutics my friend!
1Ti_3:8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money,
Tit_2:3 the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things—
I teach three very important rules when reading the Bible. Context, context, and context!
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Alls I can tell you is that I was an alcoholic for most of my teen and adult life, and I will not say having an occasional glass of wine is wrong, BUT I will not say that all the wines were the same during biblical times.
I did a study on this, and found out they had several wines they drank, and some were just like grape juice, pure, with little fomentation, and there was strong drink, that was similar to what we have today, that intoxicates.
I wont debate on this, as the good wine in the bible was the fruit of the vine, fresh, pure, and little fomentation.
OK, now you need to understand your addiction must be cut out and put to death in real repentance, along with any other vile sins you may be holding on to, your eternal destiny is at stake IF you are!
Why on earth would you want to have an occasional drink, when you were addicted to the stuff????
You must destroy it in your life, don't go there, stop tempting yourself, and setting a poor example for your friends and family, there are way too many drunks in the world and church today, what a shame, because repentance and faith proven by deeds is gone, it all come as you are, do as you please, and God winks at your sins and disobedience.
Please stop tempting satan with your drinking even a small amount, I know as in my case I would rather drink a cup of battery acid than put any alcohol on my lips!
DO NOT give satan a foot hold in your life, repent of it, which means it stops, put it to death once and for all, and follow Jesus on the narrow path, this is part of counting the cost!
The surgeon’s knife!
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
ἐκκόπτω
ekkoptō
ek-kop'-to
From G1537 and G2875; to exscind; figuratively to frustrate: - cut down (off, out), hew down, hinder.
Coming from a medical background I can appreciate what Jesus meant when He said to cut it out, pluck it out, and cast it away!
When someone is diagnosed with a type of deadly cancer, tumor, growth, cyst, or any other physical disease that must be removed, it’s easy to seek help from the best surgeon who can do his best work at cutting out this disease implanted in your body.
I believe this can be well used to describe the sick condition of the church today, where many are convinced they are healthy on the inside, meaning no cancers, growths, cysts, or anything that needs to be excised by the precise hand of a qualified surgeon. But due to their wrong choices, false teachings and unwilling to repent, they fail to see that their sin that has so ensnared them is much worse than any physical ailment will ever be!
But the master made in very clear, that the sin must be cut off, right at the root, and put to death through repentance as He commanded, He made it clear what would happen IF the sins were not excised from the heart, cut out at the roots so it would not grow back.
The wages of sin is death, BUT the gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ, who came to set the captives free, once and for all, asking all to repent, cut and cast the sin away with the strength of the great surgeon, who gives us all we need to bow to His throne casting away our sins that kept us in bondage!
Jesus will not do it for you, and He didn’t take your place on the surgeons table to become sin for you, He specifically commanded you to cut if off, pluck it out, and put it to death through repentance and faith proven by deeds.
The sin stops and is cut out, excised, and put to death in repentance,
Isa 1:16 Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes; cease to do evil;
We have our part to do in this process leading to purity, and God has His, as we come to Him purged, and cleared from sin and disobedience that once infested our mortal bodies, waiting to be cut out at the root, and put to death!
So when the false teachers tell you sin is a part of you, or is a substance inbred into you, and a disease handed down to you from Adam, and you just can never stop sinning, or even need to stop sinning to be saved or stay saved, remember the words of the master, who made it perfectly clear what WE in our own free will and ability MUST DO:
“Pluck it out, cut it off, and cast it from thee”!
This clearly defines what a qualified surgeon will do to remove cancer, and also clearly defines what we must do to inherit eternal life!
Tommy
"Wine" is "the razor's edge"
The acceptable apex on the quest for any pleasure, the final product of the vine.
Every man must know how much "wine" he can drink without crossing the "edge".
A buzz that is reached and even maintained is that edge. Once you cross over into actual drunkeness, you have crossed the line, and will receive a witness to that fact, in that you will either suffer from doing something stupid, have a hangover, get sick, etc.
I believe just the desire for wine also presents the same "line in the sand" effect, in that even if you don't get drunk, if you yearn for the daily drink to the point that you "can't do without it" and act crazy to get it, you have also seen the line.
Matthew 26:27 has been translated as "drink of it, all of you" when it should be "drink of it, all of it"
One wine that we are allowed (commissioned even) to cross the line and get drunk on, His cry for our salvation.
If you can police yourself on that "it's time to stop" line with alcohol, video games, body building, whatever... You're good to go.
Otherwise, all of those things are drunkenness, too much "wine"
Peace.
The acceptable apex on the quest for any pleasure, the final product of the vine.
Every man must know how much "wine" he can drink without crossing the "edge".
A buzz that is reached and even maintained is that edge. Once you cross over into actual drunkeness, you have crossed the line, and will receive a witness to that fact, in that you will either suffer from doing something stupid, have a hangover, get sick, etc.
I believe just the desire for wine also presents the same "line in the sand" effect, in that even if you don't get drunk, if you yearn for the daily drink to the point that you "can't do without it" and act crazy to get it, you have also seen the line.
Matthew 26:27 has been translated as "drink of it, all of you" when it should be "drink of it, all of it"
One wine that we are allowed (commissioned even) to cross the line and get drunk on, His cry for our salvation.
If you can police yourself on that "it's time to stop" line with alcohol, video games, body building, whatever... You're good to go.
Otherwise, all of those things are drunkenness, too much "wine"
Peace.
L
I studied this as well, and I found that there are many different opinions on the subject. But, if we look at Scripture we see that wine is wine and are warned to not be a drunkard. There are those out there who do not want to believe that Jesus turn water into wine so they create a different wine so they can keep their views.
Lets take your view and add it to these two verses.
1Ti_3:8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine (grape juice) or fond of sordid gain,
Tit_2:3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine (grape juice), teaching what is good,
Addicted and enslaved to much grape juice. Honestly, does this make sense to you? If you just allow the Bible to say what it means there would be less confusion.
Everyone here is talking about alcohol as if there is no such thing as addiction, but it is always a matter of choice. Science has found that there is a sickness of addiction. Sometimes scientist get carried away with their own intelligence, but usually science is just a matter of discovering how God created our world and how it operates. As Christians we must face the fact that there is sickness in our world.
My son is an alcoholic who drinks. My Father was an alcoholic who never drank any alcohol at all, not because he thought it wrong but because he found that he could not control his drinking if he ever had even a small amount. My son would never go to a bar or live an alcoholic lifestyle. He teaches an adult bible class and loves the Lord. Most people who know him do not know he drinks excessively; he is very ashamed of it.
I don’t think we can talk intelligently about alcohol without adding into the equation that there is addiction.
My son is an alcoholic who drinks. My Father was an alcoholic who never drank any alcohol at all, not because he thought it wrong but because he found that he could not control his drinking if he ever had even a small amount. My son would never go to a bar or live an alcoholic lifestyle. He teaches an adult bible class and loves the Lord. Most people who know him do not know he drinks excessively; he is very ashamed of it.
I don’t think we can talk intelligently about alcohol without adding into the equation that there is addiction.