Paul's Command To Be Silent For Tongues Without Interpretation

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H

hopesprings

Guest
#21
Hmm...I was just thinking about the 'speaking in tongues' topic...funny that this thread is near the top of the bible forum. I used to be super skeptical about this 'gift of the Holy Spirit', even though I can remember my dad speaking in tongues since I was a little girl. I just read 1 Cor. 14 too and I don't think Paul said that speaking in tongues is wrong or bad, just that it does not edify the body, if there is no interpreter. How can someone say 'amen' when they can't understand what you are saying? Makes sense. So simple.

Its interesting tho...a couple of weeks ago I was in my 'prayer closet' and suddenly the words that I was saying were not in English anymore, yet I still completely understood what it was I was praying. I cannot describe this experience to you...it is beyond words, but I did find it interesting that I was even able to sing songs of praise to God, in this language that I didn't know. That being said, I have never spoken in tongues around my husband, or in church....it is only ever when I'm alone and only when I feel overwhelmed to do it. Once again, it is hard thing to describe.
:)
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
14,890
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#22
I do not think anyone was saying or implying that tongues are non existant..not yet at least. I for one did not. What I will say however and appeal to you and all those who may emphasize the gifts is more important than this emphasis is to live right, and live Holy before God and truly live in the fruit of Repentance,having a sincere conversion and Christian walk. I would rather be a right representation of what it is to be a Christian before man and before God than putting another knotch in my spiritual gifts toolbox(not saying you do, but i have met some who seem to care only about this)
When a person is more concerned about hoping to get a prophetic 'word' or hoping people will pray in tongues in church or that someone will get healed..etc etc etc and will not care enough about the Word being taught and being challenged to live for God, that is where I will say keep your 'Holy Ghost' prayer time in your prayer closet for you are a mere distraction, you only edify yourself, you seek to get attention from all others and you will answer to God for your disobedience of the command to do things in order if you cause a brother or sister to stumble or keep non christians from hearing the gospel because you were too wrapped up in 'getting drunk in the spirit' or whatever other activity you thought was more important..
and i came out of this 'revival' movement, so i know a thing or two about how things are done in such churches/circles.
Been therer done that watched same tongues used over and over again by same person(s) each and every week, watched the rolling around on the ground seeing them look up the dresses of other women. And I know of a friend that wanted truth abiut speaking in tongues for he was taught unless he spoke in unknown language the Holy Spirit has not come upon him. So he made up words of his own and went off tochurch and in the middle of service he spoke out. Now what do you think happened?
Yep he was immediately accepted, patted on the back by several members, brought into the click, group, cult. What a facade, and this goes on all over the world not only in tongues but in many other false doctrines as well,, and is accepted by us the sheep because of the need not to be alone, wanting to be accepted. Andtruly when we have believed we are never alone and we are already accepted in the beloved.
Ephesians 1:6
to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. The devil, evil is full of firey little darts that glitter like gold. Also at the end of the talk about the gifts
1 Corinthians 13:13
And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
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#23
Hmm...I was just thinking about the 'speaking in tongues' topic...funny that this thread is near the top of the bible forum. I used to be super skeptical about this 'gift of the Holy Spirit', even though I can remember my dad speaking in tongues since I was a little girl. I just read 1 Cor. 14 too and I don't think Paul said that speaking in tongues is wrong or bad, just that it does not edify the body, if there is no interpreter. How can someone say 'amen' when they can't understand what you are saying? Makes sense. So simple.

Its interesting tho...a couple of weeks ago I was in my 'prayer closet' and suddenly the words that I was saying were not in English anymore, yet I still completely understood what it was I was praying. I cannot describe this experience to you...it is beyond words, but I did find it interesting that I was even able to sing songs of praise to God, in this language that I didn't know. That being said, I have never spoken in tongues around my husband, or in church....it is only ever when I'm alone and only when I feel overwhelmed to do it. Once again, it is hard thing to describe.
:)
Most people do find it hard also, and by wanting it to be of God, they don't test the spirits, but just go with the flow since it was a feel good experience which should not be a telltale sign that it is from God because there are seducing spirits.

John 10:7-9 states that the Son of God, Jesus is the door. He said that all those that come before Him as in coming inbetween us & Him is a thief & a robber and so the Holy Spirit would not be cutting off your prayer time with Him.

If you consider the purpose of prayer is relating to God the Father by way of the Son so that when the Son answers your prayers, then God the Father will be glorified in the Son, ( John 14:13-14) then how can He be glorified in the Son if you do not know what you had prayed for? Thus it was stealing time away from you & Him with babbling nonsense, and robbing opportunities of God answering your prayers that you would have asked for but allowed a thief to think he can do a better job than you. That also steals your thanks from Him because you had never asked Him in prayer that He would have answered them.

Now for songs of praise: I would believe that God would rather you know what you had sung in praising Him than not. How many believers sing songs out of repetition and not from the heart, knowing what they were singing? How is that any different from singing praises in tongues and yet know not what you are singing to Him?

Therefore Paul was comparing the singular gift of tongue with the singular gift of prophesy to show by that comparison why the gift of prophesy was the gift to seek out of all spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter. This tongue that Paul said by itself edifies the tongue speaker was out from that comparison but he states that in the spirit, he speaketh mysteries wherein Paul goes on to testify that this tongue was unfruitful even to himself and that he prayed that someone will interpret that tongue so that he will sing with the understanding and edify with the understanding as well. That means Paul was conveying throughout that chapter that tongues was not a stand alone gift. That was the purpose of exhorting the gift of porphesy over the singular gift of tongues in that comparsion.

Do note that Paul said that it was "my spirit" that was praying, not the Holy Spirit in regards to this same gift of tongue. Paul bottomlined what God said that tongues was for, to speak unto the people of other men's lips: not back to Himself.

We are not to believe every spirit but test them. Paul commanded someone that spoke in tongues to be silent when there was no interpretation in verse 28, as he was speaking unto himself and unto God, meaning he was a foreignor as he understood what he was saying as God did, which the gift of tongue in verse 2 when compared with the gift of prophesy by itself, that tongue speaker spoke unto God meaning God understood what he was saying even though the tongue speaker did not: but again as speaking in mysteries, Paul never implied that it was a stand alone gift, but between the two gifts: prophesy versus tongues, Paul was proving that tongues was not a stand alone gift that it needed interpretation.

The commandment for women to be silent in the church as being of the Lord was Paul proving that God would not manifest tongues in women because the word of God first came to man and then the women, and thus God will manifest tongues of His word first coming to man to be interpreted by by the gift of interpretation from man.

So there is a fine line drawn here in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter about not forbidding to speak in tongues when there is no interpretor so these private interpretation or these private songs or these private praises that are tongues with no interpretation is not of Him as it steals that time away from Him through the edification of the written scripture and time away from Him in prayers in knwoing what you had prayed for so that God may receive thanks for answering your prayers.
 
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Jan 11, 2013
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#24
Been therer done that watched same tongues used over and over again by same person(s) each and every week, watched the rolling around on the ground seeing them look up the dresses of other women. And I know of a friend that wanted truth abiut speaking in tongues for he was taught unless he spoke in unknown language the Holy Spirit has not come upon him. So he made up words of his own and went off tochurch and in the middle of service he spoke out. Now what do you think happened?
Yep he was immediately accepted, patted on the back by several members, brought into the click, group, cult. What a facade, and this goes on all over the world not only in tongues but in many other false doctrines as well,, and is accepted by us the sheep because of the need not to be alone, wanting to be accepted. Andtruly when we have believed we are never alone and we are already accepted in the beloved.
Ephesians 1:6
to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. The devil, evil is full of firey little darts that glitter like gold. Also at the end of the talk about the gifts
1 Corinthians 13:13
And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

In Britain I have spent much time in Pentecostal churches. Whether a person speaks in tongues or not, is not considered a salvation issue.
However, there are two main Pentecostal denominations this side of the pond. Elim and Assemblies of God(AOG) They tried to unite at one time as one united Pentecostal church, but one issue mainly prevented this happening. Assemblies of God believe that when a person is 'Baptised in the Holy Spirit'(the term commonly used in Pentecostal circles) they must speak in tongues as evidence this has taken place, whereas Elim believe a person can be 'Baptised in the Holy Spirit' but do not have to see the evidence of speaking in tongues for the experiance to be authentic. That issue prevented them from coming together as one united church
Just thought I would mention that due to your discussion
 
R

rauleetoe

Guest
#25
Been therer done that watched same tongues used over and over again by same person(s) each and every week, watched the rolling around on the ground seeing them look up the dresses of other women. And I know of a friend that wanted truth abiut speaking in tongues for he was taught unless he spoke in unknown language the Holy Spirit has not come upon him. So he made up words of his own and went off tochurch and in the middle of service he spoke out. Now what do you think happened?
Yep he was immediately accepted, patted on the back by several members, brought into the click, group, cult. What a facade, and this goes on all over the world not only in tongues but in many other false doctrines as well,, and is accepted by us the sheep because of the need not to be alone, wanting to be accepted. Andtruly when we have believed we are never alone and we are already accepted in the beloved.
Ephesians 1:6
to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. The devil, evil is full of firey little darts that glitter like gold. Also at the end of the talk about the gifts
1 Corinthians 13:13
And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
So true...and I wish I would have seen it back then...yet Ic was a young guy wanting to be accepted
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
14,890
86
48
#26
In Britain I have spent much time in Pentecostal churches. Whether a person speaks in tongues or not, is not considered a salvation issue.
However, there are two main Pentecostal denominations this side of the pond. Elim and Assemblies of God(AOG) They tried to unite at one time as one united Pentecostal church, but one issue mainly prevented this happening. Assemblies of God believe that when a person is 'Baptised in the Holy Spirit'(the term commonly used in Pentecostal circles) they must speak in tongues as evidence this has taken place, whereas Elim believe a person can be 'Baptised in the Holy Spirit' but do not have to see the evidence of speaking in tongues for the experiance to be authentic. That issue prevented them from coming together as one united church
Just thought I would mention that due to your discussion
Thank you, looking for all things to be done in edification, with God's love the love of 1 Cor 13
And we are to have no divisions, yet there are many that is why it is very important to let others believe as they are convinced and do not dispute over doubtful things. 1 Cor. 3 and Romans 14 come to mind. Paulin writing to the Corinthians was looking to get them to maturity, (the meat of the word) but they were still carnal as many of us are, this scripture comes to mind Hebrews 5:11-6:6 Let us move on to maturity if God permits, so let us each ask God for the maturity needed, and put away our disputes and trust God to get each of us to stand in God's truth following no one else except God himself through Christ's finished work unto the ressurrection
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
14,890
86
48
#27
So true...and I wish I would have seen it back then...yet Ic was a young guy wanting to be accepted
Nothing is truly new under the sun but now we that believe have the SON. And what is great you see it now, all past sins are forgiven and how soon are they past before I can get on my hands and knees. and Peter reminds us of this
2 Peter 1:9
For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
Yet this is not for us to take advantage of it is for our admiration of the Father of Christ and appreciation of such a great salvation
Homwardbound
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#28
And we are to have no divisions, yet there are many that is why it is very important to let others believe as they are convinced and do not dispute over doubtful things. 1 Cor. 3 and Romans 14 come to mind.
No, brother. To remove all doubt, we should go to the scripture for reproof. We are to have answer in those things pertaining to faith and tongues without interpretation can be tested, discerned, and reproved to be shunned.

Jesus taught to excommunicate an unrepentant brother that was caught in a trespass that had gone astray in Matthew 18:10-17

Paul taught to excommunicate an unrepentant believer so that fellowship may be held in sincerity and in truth in 1 Corinthians 5th chapter.

Paul spoke of the apostasy in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 of seeking to receive the "Spirit" again after a sign wherein Paul reminded them when they had received the Spirit at their salvation afterwards in verses 13-15, and went on to the third chapter ( do know that the NT nor the OT were not originally in numbered chapters nor verses ) speaking of those wicked & unreasonable men as not having faith that walk not after the traditions taught of us and were disorderly, giving the commandment to admonish them not as an enemy, but as a brother by withdrawing from them in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15 so that they may repent.

Here is more proof that one should not ignore things that oppose the faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 12:16Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Yes, we are to be condescending to men of low estate, but that was in regards to the poor.

1 Corinthians 1:10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Philippians 2:2Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded
, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

Philippians 3:16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Philippians 4:2
I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.

That is towards even individual believers and those that do not attend the assembly.

Paulin writing to the Corinthians was looking to get them to maturity, (the meat of the word) but they were still carnal as many of us are,
Paul was still reproving the believers at the same time for identifying themselves by certain individual christian men when it is God that supplied the seed to the sower & water to the waterer as God is the One that caused the increase.

There are some carnility that we are to bear towards the babes in Christ as a shortcoming as they are to be growing out of that carnality, but there are some carnality that we are not to bear when they are living in sin like fornication and not repenting from it.

this scripture comes to mind Hebrews 5:11-6:6 Let us move on to maturity if God permits,
Hebrews 6th chapter was explaining that no believer need again to lay down that foundation in Christ Jesus. There is no more need to come forward or asked to be saved again as if one can lose their salvation. But what we build on that foundation is key as 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 warns and applied to the briers & thorns that grew with the good things after the earth has received the rain and gave growth to the plants & trees. That means salvation cannot be undone because it is impossible to take back the water from the rain that has been received in the earth that gave life & growth to plants & tress. It is the thorns & the briers that will be burned away...and because there is that fire coming, we should take heed on what we build on that foundation.

Colossians 1:[SUP]27 [/SUP]To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: [SUP]28 [/SUP]Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

It is because Christ is in us, this warning is given and should not be ignored when it comes to a trespass or an iniquity.

so let us each ask God for the maturity needed, and put away our disputes and trust God to get each of us to stand in God's truth following no one else except God himself through Christ's finished work unto the ressurrection
Being submissive to the Word of God as Christ is the head of the church and thus the head of every believer is the only way one can mature which is by abiding in Him & His words to bear fruit so that our joy may be full.

To ignore that which is a lie, is to permit a lie to cause someone else in that congregation to go astray as well. Example, believers testifying to the Spirit of Christ being in the worship place presently, instead of in according to our faith as dwelling within us. That is not abiding in the doctrine of Christ.

2 John 1:[SUP]7 [/SUP]For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: [SUP]11 [/SUP]For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

This is the same thing warned about when John gave instructions on how to test the spirits. It is blindness that believers do not see verses 2 & 3 as not talking about doubting that Jesus had ever come in the flesh, but testifying of the Spirit of Christ "presently" as in "is come" in being outside of us in the worship place, drawing that line distinctly in verse 4 below.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: [SUP]3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. [SUP]5 [/SUP]They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. [SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

So if we ignore that testimony when believers say that in church, then the church would be allowing that to draw attention more & more in seeking that presence and then comes signs & lying wonders in a more worship stealing result, and so how can a church stop them from chasing after them when they allowed seducing spirits foot to be in the door?

That is why the holy laughter movement was nationwide and across the denomenations as happening in Catholics and Protestant churches as it was no longer a streamlined Pentecostal/Charismatic event in 1994 as reported by the 700 Club which was endorsing that movement as being of God. I point out the fruit of teh false prophet of gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles as being ecumenical in nature.

So there is cause for division as there is cause for reproof and excommunication when there is no repentance because allowing that iniquity to remain is to cause one of the little ones to go astray which is why there is necessity to correct as Jesus has taught in Matthew 18:10-17 in regards to those that have gone astray, and excommunicate if unrepentant.

1 Corinthians 11:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Titus 1:[SUP]13 [/SUP]This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; [SUP]14 [/SUP]Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. [SUP]16 [/SUP]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Matthew 10:[SUP]33 [/SUP]But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. [SUP]36 [/SUP]And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

2 Corinthians 13:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

There are babes in Christ and then there are workers of iniquity. They are not one & the same to be dealing with workers of iniquity as you would deal with babes in Christ. We are to put out those that walk not after the tradition taught of us & are disorderly, but treat them not as an enemy, but admonsih them as a brother in the hopes they will repent.
 
H

hopesprings

Guest
#29
Most people do find it hard also, and by wanting it to be of God, they don't test the spirits, but just go with the flow since it was a feel good experience which should not be a telltale sign that it is from God because there are seducing spirits.

John 10:7-9 states that the Son of God, Jesus is the door. He said that all those that come before Him as in coming inbetween us & Him is a thief & a robber and so the Holy Spirit would not be cutting off your prayer time with Him.

If you consider the purpose of prayer is relating to God the Father by way of the Son so that when the Son answers your prayers, then God the Father will be glorified in the Son, ( John 14:13-14) then how can He be glorified in the Son if you do not know what you had prayed for? Thus it was stealing time away from you & Him with babbling nonsense, and robbing opportunities of God answering your prayers that you would have asked for but allowed a thief to think he can do a better job than you. That also steals your thanks from Him because you had never asked Him in prayer that He would have answered them.

Now for songs of praise: I would believe that God would rather you know what you had sung in praising Him than not. How many believers sing songs out of repetition and not from the heart, knowing what they were singing? How is that any different from singing praises in tongues and yet know not what you are singing to Him?

Therefore Paul was comparing the singular gift of tongue with the singular gift of prophesy to show by that comparison why the gift of prophesy was the gift to seek out of all spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter. This tongue that Paul said by itself edifies the tongue speaker was out from that comparison but he states that in the spirit, he speaketh mysteries wherein Paul goes on to testify that this tongue was unfruitful even to himself and that he prayed that someone will interpret that tongue so that he will sing with the understanding and edify with the understanding as well. That means Paul was conveying throughout that chapter that tongues was not a stand alone gift. That was the purpose of exhorting the gift of porphesy over the singular gift of tongues in that comparsion.

Do note that Paul said that it was "my spirit" that was praying, not the Holy Spirit in regards to this same gift of tongue. Paul bottomlined what God said that tongues was for, to speak unto the people of other men's lips: not back to Himself.

We are not to believe every spirit but test them. Paul commanded someone that spoke in tongues to be silent when there was no interpretation in verse 28, as he was speaking unto himself and unto God, meaning he was a foreignor as he understood what he was saying as God did, which the gift of tongue in verse 2 when compared with the gift of prophesy by itself, that tongue speaker spoke unto God meaning God understood what he was saying even though the tongue speaker did not: but again as speaking in mysteries, Paul never implied that it was a stand alone gift, but between the two gifts: prophesy versus tongues, Paul was proving that tongues was not a stand alone gift that it needed interpretation.

The commandment for women to be silent in the church as being of the Lord was Paul proving that God would not manifest tongues in women because the word of God first came to man and then the women, and thus God will manifest tongues of His word first coming to man to be interpreted by by the gift of interpretation from man.

So there is a fine line drawn here in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter about not forbidding to speak in tongues when there is no interpretor so these private interpretation or these private songs or these private praises that are tongues with no interpretation is not of Him as it steals that time away from Him through the edification of the written scripture and time away from Him in prayers in knwoing what you had prayed for so that God may receive thanks for answering your prayers.
Hmm...interesting post.

First off - when I 'speak in tongues' I know what I am saying. It is the same when I sing praises in tongues. I know what I am singing. It is the exact same thing as learning a second earthly language, you know what you are saying...yet it comes out in a language other then English.

Secondly - I am not a fan of the 'feel good' experiences. I didn't really expect this to happen, but when it did, it came bubbling up from inside. Trust me, I know what you mean by testing the spirits. There was a lot of turmoil leading up to this event. You know how the scripture says 'the Spirit bears witness with our spirit'...it was a God thing...and my relationship with Him has only grown since then. There were things that I had been struggling with forever, that disappeared afterwards; it was confirmation. I wanted whatever He had to give me...and there is was. That is not saying that I have this overwhelming experience every time I speak in tongues...it only happened the one time, now I just know this second language that I didn't know before.

Thirdly - I don't know why you say that women are not to receive the gift of tongues. I see no support for that in scripture. Perhaps you can clarify and expand on your point there. :)

hopesprings
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
14,890
86
48
#30
No, brother. To remove all doubt, we should go to the scripture for reproof. We are to have answer in those things pertaining to faith and tongues without interpretation can be tested, discerned, and reproved to be shunned.
End Quote"
Enow brother please read carefully the following and be careful you are not workiing in the energy of your own flesh, all I read that you say is true, yet one need put it in the right perspective, making sure they are not being deceived by their own flesh, mixing Law and the Grace of God, Thank you brother

Enow God is our teacher it says so in the word no longer do we need for our brother to teach us, for it is God that teaches each believer in his own Soul truth truth that sets one free. So yes we are to go to the Bible for reproof correction, and onward but brother there are many mis translations and translators. One sees a passage of scripture as meaning this or that another sees the same as differant the only true foundation is Jesus Christ and him Crucified, then after one gets past to the point that they see God the Father has forgiven them through the finished work of Christ John 19:30 period they move on to the new life in the Spirit of God and learn to stay there trusting God to keep them alive and dead in their flesh presently here and now. Two Commandments Christ left and these are the greatest of all First LOVE the Lord thy God with all you have second one's neighbor as your new self God love's me you and you unconditionally, and Paul in his second letter to the Corinthians stated that he regretted writing such a harsh letter being very concerned then he did not for it worked a godly sorrow in them instead of a worldly one. The Old covenant one had to Forgive in order to be forgiven and God would not forgive unless you forgave. Is this true under the New Covenant? No! how can this be under the new where all sins are behind hiS back never to see again Hebrews 10:17 he took all sin out of the way from his Father's vantage point at the cross and not only was this the last sacrifice it also was and is the last shedding of blood for any further forgiveness. So I say seek first this forgiveness proivided at the cross and quit working at it in the energy of one's own flesh, and Ask God to raise you from that dead flesh that you just ask to die to at the cross of Christ Read it Romans 6:1-6:6 Once one comes to life their is no turning back. If one is turning back and forth their flesh is still in the way and have not come to life as of yet even though thaey are on theirway if they really do believe and are not faking it as flesh does so well. God knows who are his.
Thank you for your concern and care for it that you do want all to come to know Christ and walk uprightly completely including yourself. The only way i found to do this is love God's way stay in the Spirit of truth and there is no sin to de-rail one until one starts thinking about whether or not they will do this or that wrong, that is where doubt resides in our flesh that keeps wavering back and forth and has not come to truth yet, but God will cause anyone of us that believe to stand, we are to love all as God loves us: God unconditionally loves us all proof Christ at the cross, where Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world, in John 1:29 said by John the Baptist. Now this is a done issue Christ took away the sin of the world at the cross, then went to his death and was dead for three days as proof of his death so that the new covenant was with no question in place. (Hebrews 9:15-17) Then the Father raises Christ back to life, Christ appears to the twelve and many others after the the ressurection, explaining to the disciples why all this must have occured hanging around for forty days preparing them for the new life they are about to receive in the Holy Ghost, and that no one can do anything with out the reception of the Holy Ghost.
Then Pentecost came and they received new lifes in the Spirit of God, and the flesh to this day has been fighting to be in control to have its own way as it has had for many prior to the death, burial, ressurection, ascenscion and the delivery of the Holy Ghost as was promised. New life began that day and is available for all those that believe. But what gets in the way is doubt, and doubt comes from evil forces at work for our warfare is not carnal it is spiritual. It is one receiving thoughts of doubt and thus acting on them as Adam and Eve did back at the garden. You see when one starts to think about whether this is true or that is true doubt of God and the fact that God's work is complete and your work is also complete in him period there onewould have taken all thought captive to the obedience of Christ, So I say take no thought and the evil thorugh Spiritual warfare can not over take you any longer for you belong to Christ you are alive in the Spirit of God forevermore and dead in the flesh so start to believe this as well and you will walk in the Spirit that produces LOVE< JOY< PEACE and RIGHTEOUSNESS, BEING A CITIZEN OF HEAVEN, put back here on the earth as an ambassador representing truth as truth is, which is love all as God loves us unconditionally. We are each to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, but come to know that it is God that carries on the good work he began i you not you for there is in the Spirit a new you and it is not of the flesh for I serve the law of sin and death with my flesh, but I serve the law of life with the hidden man of my heart and that hidden man is God himself who came in you the first day of belief, for God the Father who could know no sin and erradicates it as soon as God the Father focusses on it sees through his Son at you the believer as perfect and thus this is how today Father can come and live in you through the Holy Ghost of promise.
Now this is good news so let us respoond to this good news and stop trying to be initaiators for God is the true initiator. We are the creation God the Father is the creator. So today Enow I have chosen to be a responder to God's Love as it is stated in 1 Corinthians 13. Or have we forgotten that God's kindness is actually meant to lead one at a time to repentance. Repentance truly is not I will quit doing this or that, for if this was smoking, or drinking it can not be true repentance for one can always start again. True repentance before the Lord is one Changes his mind from unbelief to belief and stays right there thanking and praising God for what God has accomplished for you. For unbelief in Christ, the finished work the death,burial ressurrection the ascencion and thus God the Father whom by belief sends you the Holy Ghost to reside in you then raises you back to life so Father in the power of the Holy Ghost lives through you by your free will of asking him to. For Christ did not come for you or anyone just to live in you he came live through you, this is why we are to renew our minds and see allthings from God the Father's perspective, get past the sin issue brother and move onto the new life where there is no time for sin. Anyone focused on their old life will continue to sin whether they are tryuing to or not, Romans 7 very clear if God will permit one to see the truth that at the end the only one that willsave mefrom this body of sin and death is Jesus Christ my Savior my Lord
Love you ENOW
Homwardbound
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#31
Yes... dubious records at that.

You've seen them?

A church had invited linguists to attend their service in their practise when members were speaking in tongues while another interpret only to find that the interpretors were winging it, because the tongues were just babbling nonsense.

All that proves is that the linguists did not understand the languages. [I've caught people winging it too. i don't approve.]

At one site, a female believer bragged about speaking in tongues and interpreting the tongue she had just spoken, and I did not believe her because the scripture testifies against her that the Spirit will manifest the gifts severally to profit the body withal. How easy would it be for someone knowing another language, speak it, and interpret it to look like he or she has the gift of tongues? Way too easy.

She shouldn't be bragging. But you were set up not to believe. Are you sure that did not have any effect on what happened?

My problem with your defense of tongues is that they gained these tongues by seeking to receive the Holy Spirit again and after a sign of tongues that comes with no interpretation. That is the same rudiment of asking the Holy Spirit to come with those other signs that you had denounced in the first four of those movements as not being of God: slain in the spirit, holy laughter, Toronto Blessings, & Pensacola Outpouring.

I explained earlier that "Baptism in the Spirit", as far as I knew about it, was not a misuse of the technical term, and was just a prayer for the individual to be open to all the Holy Spirit wanted to do. If some people are abusing it (and I agree some are), then the appropriate response is that 700 prophets of Baal does not invalidate one real Elijah.

How can mediums and voodooists repent of their supernatural babbling tongues if believers are using it for a prayer language? How can any one that knew of their past believe that they had repented? How can any believer do this below?

The same as Simon Magus had to repent of offering to buy the Holy Spirit. Just suppose that there really is authentic gift of tongues, and it is somewhere you have not been? And just suppose that some of these people are working miracles? I know such people, and the miracles ARE in fact causing voodoo people to repent. There are differences in the tongues, and the voodoo people know it, just like Simon Magus knew it.


You are called to pray: not the Spirit.

Surely you don't want to deny the HS the right to give you words? Jesus taught us to pray, why can't the HS?

That is why in spite of your forty years of doing this, we are not to believe every spirit but test them, because Paul said plainly what tongues were for, but believers gloss over it as if he did not really mean that.

But you seem to have decided to stop testing. That is my concern.

Tongues are manifested by God to speak unto the people: not back to Himself in a form of a prayer language.

Then why does Paul thank God that he himself does it so much?

Believers are not to seek after tongues as a sign. Tongues only serve as a sign towards unbelievers.

Can't believers use them for anything else?

Signs follow believers: believers do not follow signs. That also include believers seeking signs to follow them to validate them also.

I agree. They should not seek tongues "as a sign".
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#32
I do not think anyone was saying or implying that tongues are non existant..not yet at least. I for one did not. What I will say however and appeal to you and all those who may emphasize the gifts is more important than this emphasis is to live right, and live Holy before God and truly live in the fruit of Repentance,having a sincere conversion and Christian walk. so i know a thing or two about how things are done in such churches/circles.
You did not write the OP. And I agree with you about where the emphasis belongs. If we start listing churches that do something major wrong, most of the churches in the world will be on the list. My whole argument is don't throw out the whole thing just because some people are doing it wrong.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#33
Most tongue speaker will testify of the "spirit" coming over them "again" as if to impart this tongue.


I've been praying in tongues for forty years. Never felt such a thing any of those times. There's no more "feeling" or "experience" than when you start "Our Father, who art in heaven..." I don't think I have ever known anyone personally who has ever used that phrase, and I've known hundreds of people who pray in tongues. Of course I don't do it to impress people, or to edify an assembly, either. In fact, if you were next to me throughout two hours of a prayer meeting, I doubt you would even know I did it.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#34
Hmm...I was just thinking about the 'speaking in tongues' topic...funny that this thread is near the top of the bible forum. I used to be super skeptical about this 'gift of the Holy Spirit', even though I can remember my dad speaking in tongues since I was a little girl. I just read 1 Cor. 14 too and I don't think Paul said that speaking in tongues is wrong or bad, just that it does not edify the body, if there is no interpreter. How can someone say 'amen' when they can't understand what you are saying? Makes sense. So simple.

Its interesting tho...a couple of weeks ago I was in my 'prayer closet' and suddenly the words that I was saying were not in English anymore, yet I still completely understood what it was I was praying. I cannot describe this experience to you...it is beyond words, but I did find it interesting that I was even able to sing songs of praise to God, in this language that I didn't know. That being said, I have never spoken in tongues around my husband, or in church....it is only ever when I'm alone and only when I feel overwhelmed to do it. Once again, it is hard thing to describe.
:)
My wife used to do it to the melodies of commercials from TV. God likes being praised every minute of the day.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#35
In Britain I have spent much time in Pentecostal churches. Whether a person speaks in tongues or not, is not considered a salvation issue.
However, there are two main Pentecostal denominations this side of the pond. Elim and Assemblies of God(AOG) They tried to unite at one time as one united Pentecostal church, but one issue mainly prevented this happening. Assemblies of God believe that when a person is 'Baptised in the Holy Spirit'(the term commonly used in Pentecostal circles) they must speak in tongues as evidence this has taken place, whereas Elim believe a person can be 'Baptised in the Holy Spirit' but do not have to see the evidence of speaking in tongues for the experiance to be authentic. That issue prevented them from coming together as one united church
Just thought I would mention that due to your discussion
My wife and I found that ministering to ex-Assembly people who were rejected for lack of tongues, was almost as hard as ministering to ex-cessationists who were rejected for having them. Why can't we just let God do His thing, test the Spirits, and rejoice when we find something that is God's handiwork.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#36
Hmm...interesting post.

First off - when I 'speak in tongues' I know what I am saying. It is the same when I sing praises in tongues. I know what I am singing. It is the exact same thing as learning a second earthly language, you know what you are saying...yet it comes out in a language other then English.
i had the gift of interpretation for about two weeks. Then like most gifts, it had to turn into the gift of faith that God knows what He's doing.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#37
Hmm...interesting post.

First off - when I 'speak in tongues' I know what I am saying. It is the same when I sing praises in tongues. I know what I am singing. It is the exact same thing as learning a second earthly language, you know what you are saying...yet it comes out in a language other then English.
And yet Paul prayed that someone would interpret because to him, it was unfruitful when he spoke in tongues which is why he prayed that someone else would interprete so that he would understand. I do not see him giving an exception about not having a need for an interpretor.

Secondly - I am not a fan of the 'feel good' experiences. I didn't really expect this to happen, but when it did, it came bubbling up from inside.
I have heard that expression before but I fail to see how that does not fall under the feel good experience.

Trust me, I know what you mean by testing the spirits. There was a lot of turmoil leading up to this event. You know how the scripture says 'the Spirit bears witness with our spirit'...it was a God thing...and my relationship with Him has only grown since then. There were things that I had been struggling with forever, that disappeared afterwards; it was confirmation.
Now you are using circumstances to validate the tongue which was never taught for believers to do in testing the spirits.

I wanted whatever He had to give me...and there is was. That is not saying that I have this overwhelming experience every time I speak in tongues...it only happened the one time, now I just know this second language that I didn't know before.
Again, Paul never alluded that a person can speak in tongues and interpret the tongue at the same time. Paul did say that these manifestations were doled out severally as He wills which means one speaks in tongue while another interpret.

Let's look at the practise & why.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]27 [/SUP]If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret....[SUP]29 [/SUP]Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

The reason for this is to establish the tongue being spoken just as establishing the prophesy being spoken.

Matthew 18:16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2 Corinthians 13:1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Now if a believer speak in tongue & interpret personally, how can it be established as coming from God? It cannot.

In context of the 1 Corinthians 14:27 & 29 in keeping with the message:

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]27 [/SUP]If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. [SUP]28 [/SUP]But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Paul was saying here that when a man speaks in tongue but there is no interpretor, that is not the Spirit speaking, but a foreignor which is why he is said to be silent in the church because what he is saying is not God's gift of tongues because he speaks unto himself, meaning it is his native taongue and he understands it just as God understands what he is saying.

There would be no way to tell someone to be silent when there is no interpretation if the Spirit really was manifesting God's gift of tongues that came with no interpretation. That would be like quenching the Spirit. Who was Paul to say to be silent when there is no interpretation if the Spirit was bothering to manifest tongues? So there is a little descrepancy in taking Paul at his word in verse 28 unless he was signifying that because there was no interpretor, the person speaking was a foreignor and must be told to be silent as he speaks unto himself & unto God in his native language.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. [SUP]30 [/SUP]If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. [SUP]31 [/SUP]For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Again, 1 Corinthians 12:7, Paul said that the manifestations of the Spirit was to profit the body withal. There is no mention of doing so to profit the believer individually.

Thirdly - I don't know why you say that women are not to receive the gift of tongues. I see no support for that in scripture. Perhaps you can clarify and expand on your point there. :)

hopesprings
1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. [SUP]36 [/SUP]What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? [SUP]37 [/SUP]If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Since that was a commandment from the Lord, then manifesting tongues in women would make Him a hypocrite which He is not, or at the very least, enjoying getting women in trouble in church which He does not do.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#38
Paul in his second letter to the Corinthians stated that he regretted writing such a harsh letter being very concerned then he did not for it worked a godly sorrow in them instead of a worldly one.
I believe you had misread Paul in his second letter to the Corinthians.

2 Corinthians 7:[SUP]9 [/SUP]Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Unless you are referring to something else, I do not see Paul apologizing for the first letter to the Corinthians at all.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#39
We shouldn't confuse the different aspects of tongues.

The gift of tongues is a personal issue, to be shared only among a very few if that. Think of this as a prayer language and not for public consumption. It is to be an adjunct to prayer; so that the Holy Spirit may pray thru us to speak to things and ways we otherwise wouldn't know to address. This tongue is for believers; since it is a tool to be used by believers for the spiritual edification of ourselves and those we pray for. Use in small prayers circles within an assembly may be appropriate if kept private among that group. Personal tongues may be also used in lifting praise and worship towards God in an assembly that is doing so.

Then there is a a public tongue, or prophecy, intended to be spoken among an assembly. If one feels they are being led to give a word to an assembly, that leading should be reported to the leadership. Someone else should report being led to interpret a word, before leadership permission it is given. This tongue is for both believers and unbelievers, all assembled actually, as an exhortation, and a sign and wonder.

And then there's the origin of 'tongues'. As mans numbers grew after creation he had a single spiritual language. It was one of the few things he took out of the fall, and it persisted until the tower of Babel. When Christ returns to restore all man has lost, one of those things will be that pure singular spiritual language. The different 'gifts' of tongues are an accessing of that restored language thru the Holy Spirit. Where it talks about tongues 'ceasing', it's not that speaking in that manner will stop, but that doing so will cease to be known as a tongue because it is in fact our native language.

And no it is not necessary for salvation. As with all gifts of the Spirit, it is available to any but not required of any.

Given a good thing, we humans will find some way to muck it up. We will over-use, over-sell, and over-the-top it. That's just our nature. That's when outsiders start thinking we're crazy, and that's where Paul tells some to put a leash on it. Place and moderation are key to being useful vs being foolish.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#40
Yes... dubious records at that.

I have seen enough.

A church had invited linguists to attend their service in their practise when members were speaking in tongues while another interpret only to find that the interpretors were winging it, because the tongues were just babbling nonsense.

All that proves is that the linguists did not understand the languages. [I've caught people winging it too. i don't approve.]


Or maybe you did not understand the language? The point here is, they had calimed to know the language for what they were interpreting, and the linguist confirmed that it was not and was just babbling nonsense.

At one site, a female believer bragged about speaking in tongues and interpreting the tongue she had just spoken, and I did not believe her because the scripture testifies against her that the Spirit will manifest the gifts severally to profit the body withal. How easy would it be for someone knowing another language, speak it, and interpret it to look like he or she has the gift of tongues? Way too easy.

She shouldn't be bragging. But you were set up not to believe. Are you sure that did not have any effect on what happened?


I had believed that God was still manifesting tongues for missonaries to reach in far away places, but from what I have seen in the abuse of tongues and the apostasies that comes with it, I would have to say I can see why God had stopped. He would never manifest tongues without interpretation when so much iniqiuity was abounding. That would be like He is saying that He is still fellowshipping with us in spite of the iniqiuity when He is not. That is not saying that He has left us, but by not abiding in His word, and thus not walking in the light as He did, then we are grieving the Holy Spirit in us of Whom we have been sealed with unto that day of redemption. Ephesians 6:30 So there is no way the Holy Spirit in us would be silent on that matter if He was truly manifesting tongues: case in point: The Charismatic Catholic Churches. The Lord Jesus Christ would have alot to say about the Mass, but it was already written in Hebrews 10th chapter & elsewhere. If they see not His words in plain understood written word, then neither will they hear Him in prophesying either, let alone speaking in tongues when supposedly it does come with interpretation and yet no rebuke towards catholicism? Come on.

My problem with your defense of tongues is that they gained these tongues by seeking to receive the Holy Spirit again and after a sign of tongues that comes with no interpretation. That is the same rudiment of asking the Holy Spirit to come with those other signs that you had denounced in the first four of those movements as not being of God: slain in the spirit, holy laughter, Toronto Blessings, & Pensacola Outpouring.

I explained earlier that "Baptism in the Spirit", as far as I knew about it, was not a misuse of the technical term, and was just a prayer for the individual to be open to all the Holy Spirit wanted to do. If some people are abusing it (and I agree some are), then the appropriate response is that 700 prophets of Baal does not invalidate one real Elijah.


"Opened to all the Holy Spirit wanted to so" : how can that not be seen as a new age concept?

There is only one baptism with the Holy Spirit: Ephesians 4:4-6 There is only ONE drink of the One Spirit: 1 Corinthians 12:13 You are complete in Christ: Colossians 2:5-10 God is in you all and through you all: Ephesians 1:18-23 And preaching to receive something ( 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 ) that others can testify as receiving the Holy Spirit again by the sensations in the flesh is not of Him no matter how you leave that door open for the other thieves to break through.

How can mediums and voodooists repent of their supernatural babbling tongues if believers are using it for a prayer language? How can any one that knew of their past believe that they had repented? How can any believer do this below?

The same as Simon Magus had to repent of offering to buy the Holy Spirit. Just suppose that there really is authentic gift of tongues, and it is somewhere you have not been? And just suppose that some of these people are working miracles? I know such people, and the miracles ARE in fact causing voodoo people to repent. There are differences in the tongues, and the voodoo people know it, just like Simon Magus knew it.


I have to doubt your discerning of the spirits when you say it is okay for the Holy Spirit to be felt outside of us. That is the spirit of the antichrist. There can be partiality in that line of discernment.

A woman was in the occult in contacting spirits by a ouiji board. She has repented. She is in a church that emphasizes being open to the Spirit continuously. This same believer testified of being plagued and attacked by sensations of bitings that will not go away. Doctors cannot help her. No amount of holy rolling prayers has helped either.

So understand why I am opposed to this being open to all that the Holy Spirit wants to do. God does not need the help of believers in adapting to rudiments in the world to be open for the Holy Spirit to do anything. You do not see the necessity for that mindset in prepping sinners into becoming believers when they receive the Holy Spirit at their salvation and so there is no such prepping for believers now just for the Good Shpherd to do His work in us through the Holy Spirit in us.

Matthew 24:43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Luke 12:39And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

Philippians 1:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:......[SUP]9 [/SUP]And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; [SUP]10 [/SUP]That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

I urge you brother to wake up and lift your sights higher to that throne of grace because that is Whom the Holy Spirit in us is still pointing believers to go to and relate through in relating to God the Father in Heaven to avoid false spirits as well as false prophets.

You are called to pray: not the Spirit.

Surely you don't want to deny the HS the right to give you words? Jesus taught us to pray, why can't the HS?


1 Timothy 2:[SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

The Holy Spirit cannot be inbetween us and Jesus for that would make Him a thief and so that is why not.

John 10:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the door:

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Luke accounts identifies the iniquity better which is ignoring the commandment of His invitation by how we relate to God the Father through the Son, the Bridegroom by saying "I know ye not whence ye are".

Luke 13:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. [SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: [SUP]26 [/SUP]Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.


That is why in spite of your forty years of doing this, we are not to believe every spirit but test them, because Paul said plainly what tongues were for, but believers gloss over it as if he did not really mean that.

But you seem to have decided to stop testing. That is my concern.


Thanks to Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd, I see the truth in His words in testing the spirits in keeping the faith.

2 Corinthians 13:5[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

To ignore the significance of that self examination, and to say the Spirit can be outside of us as well, is to void the point of that verse to such an extent that you might as well get rid of it as well as 1 John 3-4 as to where the spirit of the antichrist will dwell.


Tongues are manifested by God to speak unto the people: not back to Himself in a form of a prayer language.

Then why does Paul thank God that he himself does it so much?


The only way he can testify that he does it more than them all if they were present to verify that testimony, and yet Paul made it clear that he prayed that someone else may interpret the tongue that the Spirit was manifesting in him to speak unto the people. Otherwise, he would be bragging and hardly exhortive for believers to seek the gift of prophesy if Paul was truly revelling in speaking in tongues so much.

Believers are not to seek after tongues as a sign. Tongues only serve as a sign towards unbelievers.

Can't believers use them for anything else?


Have you see how they have been using it for something else? Like the falsehood that if you do not speak in tongues, that means you do not have the Holy Spirit and so you are not saved. Or how about the falsehood that because Joyce Meyers had spoken in tongues, that was the moment God was calling her into the ministry? I would say... no to your question.

Signs follow believers: believers do not follow signs. That also include believers seeking signs to follow them to validate them also.

I agree. They should not seek tongues "as a sign".
Then believers cannot use tongues for anything else other than to be interpreted for the profit of the body withal unless otherwise understood by a foreignor out in the mission field which I have not seen done in His truth in these latter days.