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Thread: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Quote Originally Posted by Trax View Post
    If being in the lake of fire is temporary, then heaven is temporary also. If a person is saved forever,
    then the lost are lost forever. If people can be removed from the lake of fire at some point, then
    anyone in heaven can lose their place there also. If there is no lake of fire, then there is no heaven.
    If there is no place to save someone "from", then there isn't a place to saved anyone "to."
    And if there is no hell and heaven, God doesn't exist and all this debating over it all is a waste of time.
    Eternal punishment is described in a few places. One where God is called like someone who refines gold and silver. Another where he no longer remembers the sins of his enemies, and again in another as burning chaff and preserving grain. In fact the bible is a wealth of material on the subject.

    One thing I would ask you to research is the idea of the 'unquenchable fire' and how 'the smoke rises for eternity'.

    It reveals the punishment being of eternal standing.

    For instance, if I burn away the plastic around a metal pot, that plastic is melted and ash, utterly destroyed. So my burning has changed it eternally. It cannot be unchanged.

    This is alike to the touchstone process found in Old Testament scriptures, which is also spoken of in the New Testament as the 'threshing floor' and other such terms.

    Again, I don't profess to be right. but that's what the bible says to me. go check them out

    i'm sure you can find the material by searching the terms I have used on t'internet.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    On another thread I posted the direct script .. a mountain of it. I think it was 'saved by grace' or something along those lines.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Here are the scripts. There is more in and around these areas of the bible. So feel free to read whole chapters. Mainly these are about Jesus' purpose against God's will, both Old testament prophecy, New testament teachings and Revelation. The origin of sin. How man is equally accursed and will be given mercy as one kind. Things of that nature.

    Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all people, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. Romans 5:18

    For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all. Romans 11:32

    As in Adam all die, in Christ ALL will be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22

    For in him [Christ] all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself ALL things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. Collossians 1:20

    If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

    every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Philippians 2:11

    They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you. 5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. 1 Peter 4:4-6

    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

    17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the pre-eminence.

    19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. Colossians 1:15-20

    John 1:29
    The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”

    1 John 2:2 (NIV)
    He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Romans 6:10
    For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

    2 Corinthians 5:14-15
    14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and 15 He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

    Romans 5:6
    For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    Ephesians 1:9-10
    9 - having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him.

    1 Timothy 2:3-6
    3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have (thelo) all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

    Isiah 42:25
    In the LORD all the descendants of Israel shall be justified, and shall glory.

    verses pointing to what Paul said about immortality and the burning of chaff.

    Proverbs 3:11-12
    11 My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, nor detest his correction; 12 For whom the Lord loves he corrects, just as a father the son in whom he delights.

    Revelation 3:19
    As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

    Hebrews 12:6 (NLT)
    For the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes those he accepts as his children.

    Verses on God's temporary anger and punishment

    Jeremiah 3:12
    Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say: ‘Return, backsliding Israel,’ says the LORD; ‘I will not cause My anger to fall on you. For I am merciful,’ says the LORD; ‘I will not remain angry forever’.

    Romans 11:32
    For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

    Lamentations 3:31-33
    31 For the Lord will not cast off forever. 32 Though He causes grief, Yet He will show compassion According to the multitude of His mercies. 33 For He does not afflict willingly, nor grieve the children of men.

    Psalm 103:9

    he will not always accuse, nor will he harbour his anger forever.

    Verses on God's will for all to learn righteousness, by mortal living or by fire.


    Isaiah 26:9
    With my soul I have desired You in the night, Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early; For when Your judgments are in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

    Hebrews 12:11
    Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

    Isaiah 46:12-13
    12 Listen to Me, you stubborn-hearted, Who are far from righteousness: 13 I bring My righteousness near, it shall not be far off; My salvation shall not linger. And I will place salvation in Zion, For Israel My glory.

    Verses of Prophecy on the refinement process that Paul speaks of

    Malachi 3:2-3
    2 But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire And like launderers’ soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness.

    verse on God's loving state

    Jeremiah 9:24
    But let him who glories glory in this, That he understands and knows Me, That I am the LORD, exercising loving-kindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight,” says the LORD.

    Verses on God destroying the veil and healing all people

    Isaiah 25:7-8
    7 And He will destroy on this mountain The surface of the covering cast over all people, And the veil that is spread over all nations. 8 He will swallow up death forever, And the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces; The rebuke of His people He will take away from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken

    Psalm 98:1-3
    1 Oh, sing to the LORD a new song! For He has done marvelous things; His right hand and His holy arm have gained Him the victory. 2 The LORD has made known His salvation; His righteousness He has revealed in the sight of the nations. 3 He has remembered His mercy and His faithfulness to the house of Israel; All the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.

    Verses on the order of which sinners go before the seemingly righteous

    Matthew 21:31-32 (KJV)
    31 Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you

    More verses on God's will for man, putting all adversaries at his feet, bowing to him


    Romans 5:8, 10
    8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
    10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

    1 Corinthians 15:24-25
    24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

    Hebrews 10:12-13
    12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool.

    Hebrews 10:14-17
    14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those (His enemies) who are being sanctified. 15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

    What God tells us about enemies, and how Jesus treats them as Judger of all men


    Matthew 5:43-44
    43 You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbour and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.

    More verses on all people

    Isaiah 45:22-25
    22 Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath. 24 He shall say, ‘Surely in the LORD I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, And all shall be ashamed Who are incensed against Him. 25 In the LORD all the descendants of Israel Shall be justified, and shall glory’.


    Philippians 2:9-11
    9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    Psalm 22:27-29
    27 All the ends of the world Shall remember and turn to the LORD, And all the families of the nations Shall worship before You. 28 For the kingdom is the LORD’s, And He rules over the nations. 29 All the prosperous of the earth Shall eat and worship; All those who go down to the dust Shall bow before Him, Even he who cannot keep himself alive.

    the revelation of the very end of the Earth at the restitution of all things

    Revelation 5:13
    And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”

    Acts 3:19-21
    19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

    Revelation 21:1-6
    1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away”. 5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new”. And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful”. 6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End...”

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Quote Originally Posted by sabaqtani7 View Post
    Eternal punishment is described in a few places.
    I know the lake of fire and heaven are eternal. I was just making a point.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Quote Originally Posted by Trax View Post
    I know the lake of fire and heaven are eternal. I was just making a point.
    That's right, they are.

    But you'll see above that although the lake, and the threshing floor, and God's refining abilities, would be eternal, their purpose is served 'in the blink of an eye'.

    God is as a consuming fire.

    Again, another example, burning up the chaff in unquenchable fire.

    The chaff is burned, then it is as ash. And its smoke rises for eternity. The fire still remains, unquenched, as it continues to burn, though as if without fuel. Again, God is as a consuming fire. And the grain is stored in the barn.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    If the burning was eternal, then how could the 'chaff be burned up' and it's smoke be emitted?

    Concepts which use Earhtly material and practices do so for the exact picture to be painted accurately.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Quote Originally Posted by sabaqtani7 View Post
    That's right, they are.

    But you'll see above that although the lake, and the threshing floor, and God's refining abilities, would be eternal, their purpose is served 'in the blink of an eye'.

    God is as a consuming fire.

    Again, another example, burning up the chaff in unquenchable fire.

    The chaff is burned, then it is as ash. And its smoke rises for eternity. The fire still remains, unquenched, as it continues to burn, though as if without fuel. Again, God is as a consuming fire. And the grain is stored in the barn.
    So, spell your opinion out to me. Are you saying that anyone cast into the lake of fire, will not always
    stay there, since his/her punishment will be in a blink of an eye. Or are you saying it is eternal?
    I read your messege a couple of times and couldn't figure out which point you were trying to make.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    For the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes those he accepts as his children.

    For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.

    But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire And like launderers’ soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness.

    If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

    See how it is 'work' that is burned up in 'the Day'. wickedness as a form, rather than an entire person.

    It's all up above, mostly. And within the letters of Timothy and Paul there is also a lot of referencing back to the Malachi and Hebrews prophecies and such.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Quote Originally Posted by sabaqtani7 View Post
    See how it is 'work' that is burned up in 'the Day'.
    The unsaved don't have works.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Quote Originally Posted by Trax View Post
    The unsaved don't have works.
    What constitutes unsaved? and saved from what?

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    This theory that Hell is not eternal is a new doctrine that has come out in the last couple of years. It is straight from the pits of hell in my opinion. Google it and you will see that there are even books being written about it.

    We are warned in the Bible about these new doctrines being taught trying to deceive many.

    Do the moderators here look out for people trying to do that or are we allowed to post anything we want about what the Bible says?

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Quote Originally Posted by Keziah View Post
    This theory that Hell is not eternal is a new doctrine that has come out in the last couple of years. It is straight from the pits of hell in my opinion. Google it and you will see that there are even books being written about it.

    We are warned in the Bible about these new doctrines being taught trying to deceive many.

    Do the moderators here look out for people trying to do that or are we allowed to post anything we want about what the Bible says?
    Well, all I have posted are scripts mainly. And everything I have said is backed up in those scripts. Will you throw me out for speaking what the script says?

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Quote Originally Posted by sabaqtani7 View Post
    What constitutes unsaved? and saved from what?
    Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Tthe 'spirit' of God, that is more of worth than any profession of denominational 'requirements into heaven'.

    The spirit is peace love and joy. That is the Kingdom of God. Anyone who exhibits these things can be called saved from sin in their life.

    John says he wrote to the people that he might convince them to lives of good work. Yet if they fail, there is a propitiation for sin. He who has died for not only our sins, but the sins of the whole world - Jesus Christ.

    It is not what one believes that gives one life. We are told we are predestined to it, as children not yet born into the world are. that Jesus died for all men, a testimony which is TO BE PROVEN IN DUE TIME.

    We are also warned that people will not believe what is written and deny the power that Christ has. All this must come to pass.

    Yet it is through Christ that even those will be saved.

    I'm not making this up. Read the scripts up above. Some of it is word for word.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Quote Originally Posted by Trax View Post
    Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
    Yes, indeed. He that does not do as Christ wishes is 'adversary'. Like Peter was.

    'Get behind me, adversary'.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    sabaqtani7,

    You have got to be kidding. You are twisting Scripture to make it say something it does not. Nothing new under the sun.

    I am surprised that that is allowed here. Hopefully someone young in the Lord that is reading this does not buy into it.
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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Quote Originally Posted by Keziah View Post
    sabaqtani7,

    You have got to be kidding. You are twisting Scripture to make it say something it does not. Nothing new under the sun.

    I am surprised that that is allowed here. Hopefully someone young in the Lord that is reading this does not buy into it.
    Read it then ..

    1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also fora the sins of the whole world.

    Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is withinb you.”

    (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
    Last edited by sabaqtani7; January 21st, 2013 at 07:57 PM.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Quote Originally Posted by sabaqtani7 View Post
    Tthe 'spirit' of God, that is more of worth than any profession of denominational help

    uirements into heaven'.

    The spirit is peace love and joy. That is the Kingdom of God. Anyone who exhibits these things can be called saved from sin in their life.

    John says he wrote to the people that he might convince them to lives of good work. Yet if they fail, there is a propitiation for sin. He who has died for not only our sins, but the sins of the whole world - Jesus Christ.

    It is not what one believes that gives one life. We are told we are predestined to it, as children not yet born into the world are. that Jesus died for all men, a testimony which is TO BE PROVEN IN DUE TIME.

    We are also warned that people will not believe what is written and deny the power that Christ has. All this must come to pass.

    Yet it is through Christ that even those will be saved.

    I'm not making this up. Read the scripts up above. Some of it is word for word.
    Wow u can't be serious,u r either saved or not saved,Jesus warned about hell than all prophets in the bible.
    Love is one of many attributes of God,ever heard God who can not only kill your body but also cast it into hell

    Sure the lamb of God was slained but there is also such a thing called the wrath of the lamb.
    If it name is not found in the book of life what happens......................
    Fill in the blanks for me please.
    And I don't beleive we will be living under time after we die
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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    Quote Originally Posted by schoolofyoungprophet View Post
    Wow u can't be serious,u r either saved or not saved,Jesus warned about hell than all prophets in the bible.
    Love is one of many attributes of God,ever heard God who can not only kill your body but also cast it into hell

    Sure the lamb of God was slained but there is also such a thing called the wrath of the lamb.
    If it name is not found in the book of life what happens......................
    Fill in the blanks for me please.
    And I don't beleive we will be living under time after we die
    Perhaps we won't.

    Was the adulterous woman 'saved'?

    Saved from what?

    again, you don't need to believe what I believe. It only takes for a person to look up scripture and make up their own minds as to what God speaks to them.

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    Default Re: 24 Reasons Why Hell Is Real (and why one should reject Universal Salvation).

    25th reason.... DUCK.....this post is gonna be a spiritual snowball fight with Bible verses flying everywhere .... I'm chicken, spiritual hugs to all, I'm running....

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