Reconciled to God while enemies !

svedbygrace · Mar 18, 2014

The false teaching of one sided Reconciliation ! 2

Now 1 Pet 2:24-25 , this passage shows us if we have eyes to see, how that the death of Christ in Vs 24, called there His Stripes, how that it caused them He took the stripes for, or died for, to return to the Bishop and Shepherd of their Souls in Vs 25 because His Stripes healed them 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

The proof or evidence of the Healing is their return to God, which is also reconciliation of them to Him. The word returned here in the greek is epistrephó and means:

I turn (back) to (towards), (b) intrans: I turn (back) (to [towards]); I come to myself. However its an aorist indicative passive, meaning the person who is turning or returning is being turned, acted upon, its the efficaciousness of the Stripes of Christ that causes the person to turn, who was once gone astray ! Thats the end desired and purposed by God for the death of Christ, to return the lost sheep back to Him, and it was very successful !

The proof of the healing is the sinners being returned to God as exemplified here in the prodigal son Lk 15:18, 20

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

This is evidence from the scripture that Christ's Death also reconciles those gone astray , estranged men and women who are His Sheep, they are brought back to God or again as the Apostle Peter writes 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

That's reconciliation also ! His suffering for our sins, was for the purpose of bringing us back to God if indeed we were of His Sheep or Elect !123

svedbygrace · Mar 31, 2014

The false teaching of one sided Reconciliation ! 3

Another scripture passage that proves that Christ's death reconciles the estranged sinner back to God is here Col 1:20-22

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Notice for emphasis "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled"

And how was that Paul ? "In the body of his flesh through death"

Folks what can be more plainer than that, that the Apostle here attributes the reconciliation of the ones " that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works,"

He attributes their reconciliation to God to Christ's Death !!!! He writes that it was through Death ! The word through dia means " on the account of"

This tells us that His death is the causative basis for being reconciled to God experimentally from our enmity and estrangement that we naturally have with Him !

Also the word reconcile here apokatallasso literally means :

to reconcile COMPLETELY, to change from one state of feeling [enmity] to another, to bring back to a former state of harmony, harmonious relations, this depicts the relation man had in Adam with God after his Creation and prior to his fall and disobedience.

The Death of Christ reinstates, restores that harmony with God but on a Higher Level through Spiritual Life given by Christ through New Birth. This was effected through His Death or was on the account of it, for the sake of it !

So with this in mind, whosoever among us who teaches that #1 Christ's Death alone does not effect the complete Salvation of the Ones He died, or #2 That the Reconciliation of His Death is ONLY ONESIDED Reconciliation, they are liars and antichrist's, and this what we have here proves it !124

svedbygrace · Apr 14, 2014

More on Reconciliation

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The world here in this scripture cannot possibly mean everyone without exception, or every individual without exception as the False teachers tell us , simply because this world is comprised of all inviduals who do not have any sins imputed or charged to them ! Everyone in this world meets the criteria of being this Man Rom 4:8

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. And that equates to reconciliation according to 2 Cor 5:19;

But we know this blessing does not apply to all without exception, because by other scripture we are informed of those who do have their sins charged to them Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he,ye shall die in your sins.

Which makes it impossible for any of those to be any of that World in 2 Cor 5:19, who had no sins charged or imputed to them, how is it therefore even remotely possible for them to die in their sins ? To be more clear on this matter, the reconciled world in 2 Cor 5:19 is a Saved World because its reconciled Rom 11:11-12,15

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

The reconciling of the world here in Vs 15 is the same as "Salvation is come to the Gentiles" in Vs 11 !

It actually means it [Salvation has come in the application of it] by the Spirit.

Reconciliation by Christ is Twofold, it Reconciled God to man and it reconciles man to God !

So the World in 2 Cor 5:19 is a Saved, reconciled world and 2 Cor 5:20 is a Call to Faith in the Truth of what has already occurred ! Faith cometh by Hearing the Word of Truth, and everyone who has been Reconciled to God, will hear the Truth of it, the Gospel of their Salvation !

So there is no way possible to equate the World in 2 Cor 5:19 with the Unbelievers and them who shall die in their sins Jn 8:24 !142

Hoffco · Apr 14, 2014

svedbygrace said:

After reading this OP, I see,you are not grounded in Bible truth. The verse should give you heads up, something is incomplete here, not wrong, incomplete. What is it about "reconcilation" that can not save?, because , we have to wait for the "life",the resurrected life of Christ to be saved. We also see the same incomplete aspect of "reconciliation" of the cross alone, in 2Cor5:18-21,"God" reconciled the world to Himself, but then committed to us the "ministry of reconciliation",..."we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God". Christs death satisfied God's wrath but does not actually save anyone, by and in and of itself. We must accept the work of the cross, before it become effectual for us. Otherwise, you would be teaching a universal salvation ,unconditionally for all. Love Hoffco

Hoffco · Apr 14, 2014

to svedbygrace, You are a "hyper Calvinist" this teaching is wrong headed, twisted logic.. It refuses God's wisdom and condemns God for not knowing enough about the meaning of words, that the Bible needs correction by smart men. "God so loved the world (lost sinners, not the "elect") that whoever beliefs (if anyone would believe, not if the "elect" would believe) they would not perish" Your thinking is so foolish, human logic, it stinks! Love to all, Hoffco

svedbygrace · Apr 15, 2014

Hoffco said:

After reading this OP, I see,you are not grounded in Bible truth. The verse should give you heads up, something is incomplete here, not wrong, incomplete. What is it about "reconcilation" that can not save?, because , we have to wait for the "life",the resurrected life of Christ to be saved. We also see the same incomplete aspect of "reconciliation" of the cross alone, in 2Cor5:18-21,"God" reconciled the world to Himself, but then committed to us the "ministry of reconciliation",..."we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God". Christs death satisfied God's wrath but does not actually save anyone, by and in and of itself. We must accept the work of the cross, before it become effectual for us. Otherwise, you would be teaching a universal salvation ,unconditionally for all. Love Hoffco

Please review the OP with me and the point or points I made so I can see you grasped them even though you disagree. Thanks !

Hoffco · Apr 15, 2014

svedbygrace said:

The old farmer deacon said to the others in the board meeting, If you leave a cow plop alone it won't stink, so, lets deal with this, once and for all, and let the chips fall will they will. (good advice), so I chose not to revisit your error by arguing over it. , I will just give you the truth of God. If God doesn't use His word to speak to your heart, I can not. For the sake of our readers, I will keep preaching the whole truth. As we see the over all teaching of the Word of God we will see each part more clearly. Then the cow plop will be mixed in with the soil and produce fruit. We must see the relationship of each part to the over all whole of the Word of God; Then each part will make sense and add to the whole. We are all born "dead" in sin. The elect unto salvation are no different. They are not born "saved" by God's eternal election or by the death of Christ, they must be saved in time. To all mankind salvation is a possibility, "whoever believes in Him "should" be saved, but most won't be saved, because they naturally hate the light of God,(Jesus) and will not come to Jesus for salvation. And verse 21 of Jh,3:16-21 tells us that only those will are "born of God" ,at some point in their life, (not at the death of Christ, I was "born again" in 1961) only those "born of God", will come to Jesus and do the "good deeds" of salvation, which were "done in God", v.21. 2Cor.5:17 those "in Christ" are a "new creation" "all these things are "of God", v 18. the Christians in Corinth could tell when the person next to them in church, were born of God, because of the new life they began to live, not from the time Jesus was dying on the cross, but a date in their lives when they changed from sin to righteous living. When Jesus was raised from the dead, nothing happened to me, I was not alive until 1943, how could I be saved if i was not yet existing in time? From all eternity, I was in the plan of God to be save in 1961, but not before 1961. The death of Christ only saved me by paying to the Father the price for my sin. And we know from the Bible ,that the price of sin was paid for "all" sinners. 1Tim 2:5. So the death of Christ made salvation a possibility for all sinners, to all who will repent, trust and obey Jesus. But as seen in Mt. 20:28 "a ransom for many" So, in the end, the death of Christ is really only for the salvation of the elect of God. ,not for "all" sinners, but only the "many", the "elect". Love to all, Hoffco

svedbygrace · Apr 15, 2014

hoff

Rabbit trail !

Hoffco · Apr 15, 2014

svedbygrace said:

Not really, it is in truth the WORD of GOD ! You spoke the REAl truth at one time, When you said that our salvation is "because of" or in "accord", or in "accordance" or "on account of the death of Christ". (not all these, are the exact words you used) These statements are true; But, to say "our salvation was by the death of Christ" is wrong. The death of Christ did not "activate" our salvation , But the death of Christ "secured" our salvation. words have definite meanings. Are you using the word "by" to mean "because of" the death of Christ; then "by" would be correct.? But if "by" means the "means", the "agent" by which we save , then"by" would be wrong. We are saved by the agency of the Spirit of God applying the merit of the death of Christ to our soul/spirit. The agency by which God saves us is His action of the New birth, directly to our being in our life time, not 2,000 yrs. ago, when we were not yet born. Love to all, Hoffco

svedbygrace · Apr 15, 2014

hoff

Yes really !

Hoffco · Apr 15, 2014

svedbygrace said:

BUT, you don't know the GOSPEL according to GOD, You have your own private interpretation. which will take many into false rabbit trails of destruction and/or despair. Your reconciliation is "one sided".. only for the elect of God. You need to see the two sides of the atonement, the first is , "general" for all, the second side is "particular" for the elect only. A "Cal/Armenian view" is better then your 5 points of Calvinism. Love Hoffco

Hoffco · Apr 15, 2014

svedbygrace, All the Bible agree with you and I , that it is only the elect of God who will be saved. But, we must not deny all the rest of the Bible that says for us to preach the Gospel to the whole world and to every creature ,person, in the world. With the promise of God, that all who repent, call on Jesus, and obey Jesus, will be saved. Only hyper, perverted Calvinists refuse to give a general call to all person they meet. Love to all. Hoffco

svedbygrace · Apr 16, 2014

Hoffco said:

svedbygrace, All the Bible agree with you and I , that it is only the elect of God who will be saved. But, we must not deny all the rest of the Bible that says for us to preach the Gospel to the whole world and to every creature ,person, in the world. With the promise of God, that all who repent, call on Jesus, and obey Jesus, will be saved. Only hyper, perverted Calvinists refuse to give a general call to all person they meet. Love to all. Hoffco

Rabbit trail and evading points made !

homwardbound · Apr 16, 2014

svedbygrace said:

The charge is by unbelief or belief no charge if one believes God that simple to either beleive and thank God for the reconciliation provided through Son or not, God knows what is the mind of me, you and all, and has reached out to all through Son
So today is the day of salvation to either beleive or not, that is all that is left to beleive or not, Christ took the rest to give you rest and for the whole world too
1 John 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Whole world all is all, nothing is left out, God died for all through Son to give all who will believe new life in God's Spirit

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have itmoreabundantly.

So one is either a thief or has new life by and through belief in the finished work of Son
Thanks

homwardbound · Apr 16, 2014

Hoffco said:

The old farmer deacon said to the others in the board meeting, If you leave a cow plop alone it won't stink, so, lets deal with this, once and for all, and let the chips fall will they will. (good advice), so I chose not to revisit your error by arguing over it. , I will just give you the truth of God. If God doesn't use His word to speak to your heart, I can not. For the sake of our readers, I will keep preaching the whole truth. As we see the over all teaching of the Word of God we will see each part more clearly. Then the cow plop will be mixed in with the soil and produce fruit. We must see the relationship of each part to the over all whole of the Word of God; Then each part will make sense and add to the whole. We are all born "dead" in sin. The elect unto salvation are no different. They are not born "saved" by God's eternal election or by the death of Christ, they must be saved in time. To all mankind salvation is a possibility, "whoever believes in Him "should" be saved, but most won't be saved, because they naturally hate the light of God,(Jesus) and will not come to Jesus for salvation. And verse 21 of Jh,3:16-21 tells us that only those will are "born of God" ,at some point in their life, (not at the death of Christ, I was "born again" in 1961) only those "born of God", will come to Jesus and do the "good deeds" of salvation, which were "done in God", v.21. 2Cor.5:17 those "in Christ" are a "new creation" "all these things are "of God", v 18. the Christians in Corinth could tell when the person next to them in church, were born of God, because of the new life they began to live, not from the time Jesus was dying on the cross, but a date in their lives when they changed from sin to righteous living. When Jesus was raised from the dead, nothing happened to me, I was not alive until 1943, how could I be saved if i was not yet existing in time? From all eternity, I was in the plan of God to be save in 1961, but not before 1961. The death of Christ only saved me by paying to the Father the price for my sin. And we know from the Bible ,that the price of sin was paid for "all" sinners. 1Tim 2:5. So the death of Christ made salvation a possibility for all sinners, to all who will repent, trust and obey Jesus. But as seen in Mt. 20:28 "a ransom for many" So, in the end, the death of Christ is really only for the salvation of the elect of God. ,not for "all" sinners, but only the "many", the "elect". Love to all, Hoffco

To all who will turn from unbelief to belief God saves, even though he did die for all, thanks for that tid bit Hoffco

Hoffco · Apr 16, 2014

svedbygrace, You condemn the false teaching of "one sided reconciliation" and you are the one who promotes this false one sidedness. You refuse to see the two sides of reconciliation/atonement of the death of Christ, the general side ,Christ died for the sins of the WHOLE world and provided salvation for all mankind upon the conditions of repentance, faith, and holiness, And the other side is that the death of Christ was only for His SHEEP, the elect, limited or particular reconciliation/atonement. You reject the GENERAL side and You just push the LIMITED side, for the elect only. YOU are the one pushing one side, not me. I see in the Bible the both sides of the truth, I see the paradoxical/ antithetical sides of the Bible; but you refuse to see both sides of the truth in the Bible. You don't receive the Word of God, you judge the word of God. You are like the Sadducees, who refused to believe in life after death, so the only believed in the books of Moses. But Jesus condemned them. saying GOD is the God of the living not the dead, Abraham, and the other saints, are alive in the spirit. You need to read you Bible a little clearer. Love to all. Hoffco

homwardbound · Apr 16, 2014

Hoffco said:

I see this Saved by the resurrected life of Christ not the death, yet the death was needed first to cleanse us and present us to Father as cleansed so if we believe Father gives us and shows us the new life in Spirit and truth
Thanks:
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

homwardbound · Apr 16, 2014

i have to say savedbygrace I am glad for you, causing others to dig to know and see truth over error as we all look to be accepted in Christ, (God) and finally see we are accepted in him if we will beleive God at God's work of reconciliation to all and we turn and we be reconciled to God in response of thanksgiving and praises to God. As God is reconciled to us through Christ's resurrected life after death that brought in the covenant as solid between Abraham and God way back before any law was put in place, the promise has stayed steadfast all this time

Hoffco · Apr 16, 2014

homwardbound, thank for weighing in on the side for the GENERAL side of the ATONEMENT of Christ's death. Yet, I know you refuse to believe in the LIMITED side of the ATONEMENT. It is not an issue of salvation; but not to believe in Repentance and Faith, and holiness is an issue of SALVATION, Those who claim they are saved by FAITH only , and still LIVE in sin, are still lost. I don't think you are just believing but have no fruit; I think you want to please God with a good life of FAITH works. GOD bless us all. Hoffco Happy Easter, we are having great fellowship here in Golden hills.

svedbygrace · Apr 17, 2014

hoff

Rabbit trail ! Please review the OP with me and the point or points I made so I can see you grasped them even though you disagree. Thanks !

Reconciled to God while enemies !

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