The prodigal son came back. Is coming 'back' a condition for OSAS faith ?

[GreenNnice]

Didn't the Father welcome back home the son who left him to go after worldly pleasures come back to him.
OSAS (once saved always saved) speaks of the son was going to come back unless he was not one of them , that is, 'them' = true faith.

But, what if the son never had come back?
And, how do we know the son was 'born again' (born of Spirit) .

I know, too, Acts says that 'the Holy Spirit had not fallen on them yet,' but isn't , uh, hmm, didn't once the Spirit of God came/fell upon the disciples---as Peter and Bzrnabus said would happen in Acts 12-- wasn't then the Holy Spirit falling on all men who BELIEVED in Christ.

In other words, the Holy Spirit is WITH the believer the moment they become a Christian ( and, don't say 'true Christian, that's silly) , HAVE the Holy Spirit in their temple. He is there, sealed in you, but then can you leave Him is my next quextion.


Ponder this verse repeated at least a couple times in Scripture:

”Don't you know that your body IS a temple of the Holy Spirit?”

So, my question is this: Did that son who ran away, did so by going AGAINST what his father instilled in him of Christ, was that prodigal.son born again BEFORE he left his father ?

 

[Abiding]

We need to be careful not to squeeze a passage so hard it squeels out anything we want it to say.

 

[GreenNnice]

I know, abidinghouse, i agree, I pray i squeeze- amid the truth that my communication device is a tmobile mytouch 4g with itty buttons and has a mind of its own often - what He leads. The Lord leads.

 

[GreenNnice]

Luke 15:11-32 New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Lost Son

11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.

13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.

“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’

28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’

31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The prodigal son was an allegory, he was not real.

He represents children of God. those adopted into his family.

he left. But he never stopped being the son. He was always the son, and knew his dad was real. and still his dad. Although he thought his dad would not still love him the way he always did. He found out when he returned, His dad always loved him the same way.

As for if he did not come back? since he NEVER stopped being the son, if he died for some reason before he returned, he would still be the son.

The moral of the story is Once your Gods son, your always Gods son. If you decide to backslide, or walk away, you are still the fathers son. But you will lose his blessings, and end up hurting yourself and suffer great loss. This loss reminds you of your true father, and causes you to return.

why people want to make this a loss salvation issue I will never understand.

MY SON was lost (his father still considered him his son) Now he has returned.

 

[Bookends]

Perhaps the other son are those who resent those who believe in eternal security.

 

[crossnote]

v.17 is key...'when he came to his senses'

Was this the Lord's doing or his own?

in my prodigal wandering it was the Lord.

 

[Bookends]

I also heard it preached in Calvinistic circles that the prodigal son represents the converted Jews (believers) and the other son represented the Pharisees (unbelievers).

 

[crossnote]

maybe we should ask, 'once a son always a son'?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I also heard it preached in Calvinistic circles that the prodigal son represents the converted Jews (believers) and the other son represented the Pharisees (unbelievers).

I have never heard of either of those two. hmm..

I think we should take them literally. Both were sons. thus both were saved. I think the other Son represents someone who had worked hard in the church and did not seem to get recognition as he thought. then this backslider comes back and he gets all the love. God is warning us in both situations.

if you leave, you will suffer. But God will never forsake you, when you return, he (and us) will rejoice
If you don;t leave, but stay, Praise God and love the one who returns..

 

[Bookends]

maybe we should ask, 'once a son always a son'?

in a physical and natural sense yes, but not always so in the spiritual sense, a son of Satan isn't a son of Satan after God regenerates him/her, thus we have the term "born-again", but never "born-again" after thee "born-again" the first time in the other direction [ son of Satan--->born again, born of God, son of God---->(never) back to born-again in the opposite direction or unborn----> to son of Satan again. ]

 

[Bookends]

v.17 is key...'when he came to his senses'

Was this the Lord's doing or his own?

in my prodigal wandering it was the Lord.

Did he only come to his senses because God gave him a rough road to walk on, and broke him? What if, he became a successful deserter? meaning instead experiencing the Crap in the ruts, he became the owner of the pig farm and made his fortune on earth. Would have still gone to his father? I can't answer your question because I don't know!

 

[Bookends]

I have never heard of either of those two. hmm..

I think we should take them literally. Both were sons. thus both were saved. I think the other Son represents someone who had worked hard in the church and did not seem to get recognition as he thought. then this backslider comes back and he gets all the love. God is warning us in both situations.

if you leave, you will suffer. But God will never forsake you, when you return, he (and us) will rejoice
If you don;t leave, but stay, Praise God and love the one who returns..

I hear you, brother, but the only thing stirs up my curiosity is how the story abruptly ends and we don't know if the resentful older son repented and joined the party... And we know the pharisees where also there listening Luke 16:14, I kinda think that the pharisees knew Jesus was talking about them, that's why "they began to sneer at and ridicule and scoff at Him."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I hear you, brother, but the only thing stirs up my curiosity is how the story abruptly ends and we don't know if the resentful older son repented and joined the party... And we know the pharisees where also there listening Luke 16:14, I kinda think that the pharisees knew Jesus was talking about them, that's why "they began to sneer at and ridicule and scoff at Him."

this could be true, if it had a Jewish connotation. But I think it deals with us today also.

 

[crossnote]

In a sense we have ALL gone astray.

The elder brother was just as much removed from his father's love with his duty bound relationship and self righteous attitude.
Prodigal means lavish and in the story the Father was the most lavish of all pouring his heart and goods on his sons. The elder son appeared to despise the father's prodigal behavior. I don't see any definite link to OSAS other than...
"Once a Son Always a Son."

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
(Isa 53:6)

 

[Bookends]

this could be true, if it had a Jewish connotation. But I think it deals with us today also.

I agree, I see myself as that prodigal son.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree, I see myself as that prodigal son.

I was one myself for 5 years. The same thing brought me back that brought him back.

 

[Kate913]

[h=3]Romans 11:22
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.[/h]

Philippians 2:12-13

12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Colossians 1:22-23

22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Deuteronomy 31:8
The Lord himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged.”

1 Chronicles 28:9
“And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the Lord searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

2 Chronicles 15:2
He went out to meet Asa and said to him, “Listen to me, Asa and all Judah and Benjamin. The Lord is with
you when you are with him. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will forsake you.

Matthew 10:33
But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Paul, a man who had the Spirit warned the Galatians that he could come to them preaching another gospel and if so that he might be eternally condemned. We must look at the scriptures as a whole and not just pick and choose what we want to believe. They must all work together. Yes, He will never deny us, but if we deny Him, He will deny us. He will not be the initiator. It is our choice. The crown of life is not just gifts that you lose, it is a crown of LIFE. We must be willing to see that it is a daily fight and battle, and if we do not continue to die to ourselves then we will not finish the race.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27
24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.

Gods love is conditional. The word never says that His love is unconditional. These warnings are not in scripture for no reason. They are warnings to encourage us to continue to the end. Everywhere in scripture God says if you do this or when you have done this, then I will do this.

Revelation 2:10
Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

1 Corinthians 10:12
12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!

Galatians 6:9
9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

I know that many try to use this verse...

Ephesians 1:13-14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

This is true, but as I said before we must be careful of just running away with one verse, they must all work together because they are all Truth. And this verse must be taken with the one above...

2 Timothy 1:14
14 Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.

We are supposed to guard the deposit! The deposit is the Holy Spirit. We can have it and lose, and the only way we can know how to guard it is by continually dying to ourselves and allowing the Holy Spirit to live in us.

Colossians 2:6-8
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, 7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

Paul warns the Colossians, after saying that they have received Christ as Lord, not to be taken captive by hollow and deceptive philosophy.

1 Timothy 4:15-16
15 Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress. 16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Hebrews 3:12-14
12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

We are supposed to be sure that none of our brothers become hardened!


If no other verse could cause you to question and seek and ask God if your belief in OSAS is true, then I hope these next few will. There is no denying or distorting what it says, we just have to be willing to listen.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[a] to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26-27
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

2 Peter 2:17-21
17 These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

It is a fearful thing to think that you have already been saved and that there is nothing that could ever change that. By believing this we let our guard down, and deceive ourselves that we have already attained to something we have not. We all must be willing for God to be our Teacher, not men and their opinions. I know that I posted a lot of verses, but I wanted to show you all that this is what God says, not what I'm saying. Because my words are of no value to any of you, but His words will bring you LIFE.

 

[cooterhein]

This is a parable. For one thing, a general rule of thumb is that parables should not be heavily used (if at all) in shaping or understanding key doctrine, particularly that which is salvific. For another thing, parables are not necessarily directed straight at you in this century wherever you live. Your starting point should be the immediate target audience that Jesus is talking to. Find out what He is saying to them and assess what it is He expected them to get out of it.

The target audience was some Pharisees. They actually weren't supposed to get all the much out of the prodigal son- not directly, at least. They were supposed to identify more with the older brother and learn how to act more accordingly than he did.

There isn't necessarily any direct link between this parable and OSAS- or a direct link between this parable and any aspect of salvation. There is, however, a direct link between this parable and how Pharisees ought to act in a given situation- or, if you like, Pharisees and any person who identifies as "religious establishment" and shares enough of their characteristics and/or positioning that they can relate to how the older brother acts in the parable. It does have some bearing on the early relationship between Jewish converts to Christianity and Gentile (probably pagan) converts to Christianity, and it's clearly motivated by the terrible relationship between the Pharisees and the tax collectors and sinners, but it's not terribly relevant to doctrinal debates that would take many centuries to materialize with any distinction. Are there some less direct ways for you to make this apply to someone outside of Palestine, outside the first century, someone who's neither a Pharisee nor someone who bears a passing resemblance to one? Sure, there are. But that can't be your starting point, because this is a parable and Jesus was talking to a certain type of person for a particular reason. Parables demand that you play by a certain set of rules that don't apply as much with other passages of Scripture- and in this case, it means you're stretching a bit too far if you're lining up eternal security against something else while trying to build a case for why this parable allows for point-scoring that puts one thing marginally up and the other marginally down.

No doctrine of salvation was ever built on this parable. Referenced in passing, perhaps, like fifty pages in as a parenthetical aside. But that's it, and as long as your discussion is soteriological, that's where it belongs. There's a reason why it's always done that way- parables have interpretive rules.

Beginning at Luke 15:1, with a little bit of jumping around- "Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.”
So he told them this parable:
Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.
Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.
It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found."

Do you ever find yourself wondering if the lost coin was eternally secure? And what if the shepherd had gone and looked for the lost sheep, but the sheep bled out before being rescued? The three stories are roughly interchangeable, and they all serve the same general purpose. I say- there are many reasons why you shouldn't be worried about the thing that you're worried about, at least not in light of this parable. The questions you ask are quite good, and they ought to be pondered in a general sense- but at the tail end of a series of parables that Jesus was using to educate Pharisees on proper conduct with tax collectors and sinners, it's not a very applicable situation.

 

[Kate913]

I know that I didn't exactly address the topic of the prodigal son, but I saw that mindsets and opinions are being spoken about as truth on here that are not and the word of God says we are not to tolerate another gospel.