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T
A little off subject, but I just asked in a chatroom if 'angels can possess people like demons do kind of , but in the opposite way: a good way instead of an evil way'. hmmm...
And they I was reminded of Balaam's donkey, and rather it could have been an angel that took possession of his donkey and caused it to speak? Just interesting...
And they I was reminded of Balaam's donkey, and rather it could have been an angel that took possession of his donkey and caused it to speak? Just interesting...
S
I don't think angels possess people as demons do. The good we do is the action of God's grace, which we must be receptive too. And angel doing good for us (through possession) would over-ride that step and make us sanctified robots. You can't have free will if you are under that kind of control. If you don't have free will, you can not accept God's grace, and can not be saved by it. The thing about being humans is that we have a free, rational will which can accept or reject God's saving grace.
As for the donkey, well, it's an animal with no rational soul or free will, so I guess that's up for grabs in the possession by angels thing. i dunno.
As for the donkey, well, it's an animal with no rational soul or free will, so I guess that's up for grabs in the possession by angels thing. i dunno.
suaso, worship me or go to hell for all eternity, u consider that free will? i dont really expect an answer, im just bringing up the question.
guardian angels are a quaint victorian notion and id like to see a scripture that says everyone has a guardian angel. and if you believe that we all have guardian angels, how would you explain the horrible things that happen to ppl, like being horrible burned in fires or suffering horrible abuse and rape? and dont give me any of that, its gods will, crap. i expect a real answer.
guardian angels are a quaint victorian notion and id like to see a scripture that says everyone has a guardian angel. and if you believe that we all have guardian angels, how would you explain the horrible things that happen to ppl, like being horrible burned in fires or suffering horrible abuse and rape? and dont give me any of that, its gods will, crap. i expect a real answer.
W
I definitely have t lest one! probably many...
asmodeus: Do you believethat there are good and evil powers in this world?
If you don´t choose God, satan will be the only other choice, wether you want to or not. God can (or at least will) not force you to come to him. It is your own choice. and the ONLY thing he says you MUST do is believe in Christ.
asmodeus: Do you believethat there are good and evil powers in this world?
If you don´t choose God, satan will be the only other choice, wether you want to or not. God can (or at least will) not force you to come to him. It is your own choice. and the ONLY thing he says you MUST do is believe in Christ.
R
i believe we all as beleivers have a set of angels watching over us! they protect us everyday..and asmodeus that doesnt mean that nothing bad will EVER happen to us...no they just protect us from certain things,they help us,bring msgs from God..and God allows certain things that are not so pleasant to happen in our lives so we can learn from it..he has a pupose for everything that happens in our lives..we might not always understand why but HE knows why so we need to be thankful for everyday he gives to us,whether good are bad.
another thing asmodeus: as an unbeliever u wouldnt be able to understand these things so i dont blame you for your comments,God even mentions that unbeleivers dont understand spiritual things because their hearts are hardened and their minds are closed.
i will pray for you that you open your heart to Him so He can enable u to understand these things
God bless
another thing asmodeus: as an unbeliever u wouldnt be able to understand these things so i dont blame you for your comments,God even mentions that unbeleivers dont understand spiritual things because their hearts are hardened and their minds are closed.
i will pray for you that you open your heart to Him so He can enable u to understand these things
God bless
G
Matthew 18:10 is an intriguing verse, and I'd like to know exactly what Jesus meant there. I'll put that on the list of things to ask Him.
I personally do not believe in guardian angels. I certainly do not believe that each person is assigned an angel to protect him/her, and I do not even believe that angels intervene in human affairs. I believe this because there is no firm scriptural basis for such beliefs, and they seem instead to be an exercise in wish-thinking: every parent wants their child protected, and the thought that an angel is looking after them is comforting, but that doesn't make it true. Tell the parent whose toddler died by accident that each child has a guardian angel. Tell the family whose mother was raped and murdered that she had a guardian angel. There is so much senseless pain and death in the world that if there are Angels guarding us, they're not doing a very good job.
Angels are agents of God. I took some time to read through the verses that mention angels and found nothing there to persuade me to a belief in Guardian Angels. Remember, we are to be the agents of light and goodness in the world. We are fighting a spiritual battle for peace, love, kindness, faithfulness, etc., and we are not promised that our lives will be made easier for it. In fact, Jesus tells us that the world will hate us, and the epistles talk of our constant suffering in this world. God has saved our souls, not our flesh.
Sorry to be the bummer in the room.
I personally do not believe in guardian angels. I certainly do not believe that each person is assigned an angel to protect him/her, and I do not even believe that angels intervene in human affairs. I believe this because there is no firm scriptural basis for such beliefs, and they seem instead to be an exercise in wish-thinking: every parent wants their child protected, and the thought that an angel is looking after them is comforting, but that doesn't make it true. Tell the parent whose toddler died by accident that each child has a guardian angel. Tell the family whose mother was raped and murdered that she had a guardian angel. There is so much senseless pain and death in the world that if there are Angels guarding us, they're not doing a very good job.
Angels are agents of God. I took some time to read through the verses that mention angels and found nothing there to persuade me to a belief in Guardian Angels. Remember, we are to be the agents of light and goodness in the world. We are fighting a spiritual battle for peace, love, kindness, faithfulness, etc., and we are not promised that our lives will be made easier for it. In fact, Jesus tells us that the world will hate us, and the epistles talk of our constant suffering in this world. God has saved our souls, not our flesh.
Sorry to be the bummer in the room.
B
Wow dude, nice love. Just obvious proof that the world is a much better solution that Christ. *sarcasm*
Lucifer/satan/whatever-other-name-we-call-him is mentioned clearly in revelations 12.
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
John wrote revelations while impressoned at patmos by emperor domition around A.D. 90 ish. Some disputes exist concerning the date, some say sooner. Regardless, John could not possiblly have lived in the medieval period. The medieval period began with the fall of Rome in the 5th century. John was very unlikely to be alive at this time. Obviously the 'facts' you have received have been 'colored' to get you to think a certain way.
For a christian, there are only two choices. Serve God, or serve the devil. If it is not of God, it is from deception. Since God cannot deceive, it is from the enemy, a.k.a. satan.
There are only two choices, heaven or hell. There is no redemption without accepting Christ first. No human can come to the father without Christ. Expecting any other response from a Chrsitian chat site, in a forum dedicated to bible study, is foolishness and an obvious attempt at stiring up a fight.
If you have issue with your two choices you should perhaps take it up with God. None of us here that frequent this site are powerful enough to reshape the laws of the universe. Your complaints aimed at us are futile, we are powerless to change it.
As for Guardian angels? No clue.
Lucifer/satan/whatever-other-name-we-call-him is mentioned clearly in revelations 12.
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
John wrote revelations while impressoned at patmos by emperor domition around A.D. 90 ish. Some disputes exist concerning the date, some say sooner. Regardless, John could not possiblly have lived in the medieval period. The medieval period began with the fall of Rome in the 5th century. John was very unlikely to be alive at this time. Obviously the 'facts' you have received have been 'colored' to get you to think a certain way.
For a christian, there are only two choices. Serve God, or serve the devil. If it is not of God, it is from deception. Since God cannot deceive, it is from the enemy, a.k.a. satan.
There are only two choices, heaven or hell. There is no redemption without accepting Christ first. No human can come to the father without Christ. Expecting any other response from a Chrsitian chat site, in a forum dedicated to bible study, is foolishness and an obvious attempt at stiring up a fight.
If you have issue with your two choices you should perhaps take it up with God. None of us here that frequent this site are powerful enough to reshape the laws of the universe. Your complaints aimed at us are futile, we are powerless to change it.
As for Guardian angels? No clue.
i should have explained what i meant better. heres some quotes from a website that says it better than i can:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-2]In the Christian context it was cleric Origenes Adamantius [185-254CE] of the early Greek Church who first claimed Lucifer was the Devil, a concept championed by Augustine of Canterbury in 7th century England based on mistranslation. Lucifer was equated with Satan by St. Jerome in his Vulgate which claimed he was the serpent in the Garden of Eden who tempted Adam & Eve to transgress. He erroneously translated 'Heylel', which means Venus in Hebrew, into Lucifer and an allusion to Satan when it wasn't.
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-2]There is no scriptural source designating Lucifer as Satan, nonetheless the Church taught he was an angel cast out of heaven because he wanted to take over the throne of Jahova. However it would be religious popular fiction which would cement Lucifer as another face of Satan, the 'Divine Comedy' by Alighieri Dante [1265-1321] and 'Paradise Lost' by John Milton [1608-1675]. It was at this period Mephistopheles entered the lexicon of Hell's overlord, the name a play on Lucifer, meaning 'not loving the light'. It has no scriptural basis, it's a medieval literary creation in the Faust novella which became an accepted part of Christian mythology in the same way Dante's view of Hell or Milton's view of Satan came to define the church position. [/SIZE][/FONT]
this is from http://www.castleofspirits.com/origindevils.html
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-2]In the Christian context it was cleric Origenes Adamantius [185-254CE] of the early Greek Church who first claimed Lucifer was the Devil, a concept championed by Augustine of Canterbury in 7th century England based on mistranslation. Lucifer was equated with Satan by St. Jerome in his Vulgate which claimed he was the serpent in the Garden of Eden who tempted Adam & Eve to transgress. He erroneously translated 'Heylel', which means Venus in Hebrew, into Lucifer and an allusion to Satan when it wasn't.
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-2]There is no scriptural source designating Lucifer as Satan, nonetheless the Church taught he was an angel cast out of heaven because he wanted to take over the throne of Jahova. However it would be religious popular fiction which would cement Lucifer as another face of Satan, the 'Divine Comedy' by Alighieri Dante [1265-1321] and 'Paradise Lost' by John Milton [1608-1675]. It was at this period Mephistopheles entered the lexicon of Hell's overlord, the name a play on Lucifer, meaning 'not loving the light'. It has no scriptural basis, it's a medieval literary creation in the Faust novella which became an accepted part of Christian mythology in the same way Dante's view of Hell or Milton's view of Satan came to define the church position. [/SIZE][/FONT]
this is from http://www.castleofspirits.com/origindevils.html
B
All of the the information you included falls after the date of the penning of the book of revelations. Your original post that I responded to you said satan was an idea originated in medieval times. I clearly showed you an example of the name originating with the word of God and clearly at times well before the medieval period.
As I said before, you have been decieved. Now that you have been shown a portion of this truth you are reponsible and obligated before God to do something with it.
As I said before, you have been decieved. Now that you have been shown a portion of this truth you are reponsible and obligated before God to do something with it.
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