The 2nd Amendment from a biblical perspective

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RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#21
As for the original amendments writing, you have to remember that the authors had just exited a shooting war - guns bombs bayonets et al - to free themselves from a government that had become opressive and unresponsive. I have to imagine that in addition to the self defense issue, they wanted to preserve for future generations that last final means of civil unrest.
 
Mar 21, 2011
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#22
Trying to use Christianity, which is not owned by Americans, in order to justify weird cultural ideas, is quite frankly perverted.

The obsession Americans have with arming the civilian population with 21st century weaponry, because of their 'rebellion fetish' dating back to their historical colonial rebellion against authority is... cultural madness.

It has nothing to do with Christianity, and CANNOT BE JUSTIFIED BY THE BIBLE OR CHRISTIANITY.

You cannot use God's word to justify arming murderers with advanced technological killing tools so that they can slaughter children at whim.

Keep trying, but nobody can make that just by perverting the word of God.

Is my opinion.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#23
Trying to use Christianity, which is not owned by Americans, in order to justify weird cultural ideas, is quite frankly perverted.

The obsession Americans have with arming the civilian population with 21st century weaponry, because of their 'rebellion fetish' dating back to their historical colonial rebellion against authority is... cultural madness.

It has nothing to do with Christianity, and CANNOT BE JUSTIFIED BY THE BIBLE OR CHRISTIANITY.

You cannot use God's word to justify arming murderers with advanced technological killing tools so that they can slaughter children at whim.

Keep trying, but nobody can make that just by perverting the word of God.

Is my opinion.
The 2nd Amendment is not the right to "slaughter" anyone. In the event you are referring to the CT shooter he did not even lawfully obtain the firearms he used. He was denied the ability to obtain one. He did not own the firearms he used. They were stolen. We have a law in America that says murder is wrong. We also have a law that guns are not allowed on any school property. The shooter broke these two laws as well. This man was not a law abiding citizen and had an agenda. He was a crimminal. Crimminals do not care about gun laws if they intend to obtain a gun they will. They do not care about rights of citizens.


Its very unfortunate that other areas of the world have developed the false idea of Americans and our rights, and we are stereotyped and compared to madmen.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#24
email me if you want a good deal on some drones.
sorry only two per person:p
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
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#26
criminals get guns easier than people wanting to protect themselves. guns are readily available by illegal means to those who will use them for evil. take away the right of innocents to protect themselves and you empower the criminal even further. most honest people wouldn't want to resort to illegal means of acquiring protection, whereas criminals would readily buy a gun off the street. take the guns away from innocent people and they are either forced to break the law to defend themselves or are forced to live in fear.
 
Mar 21, 2011
1,515
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0
#27
Its very unfortunate that other areas of the world have developed the false idea of Americans and our rights, and we are stereotyped and compared to madmen.
What do you think Jesus teaches about this?
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#28
Did you know that countiries under Sharia Law(Islamic Law) have strict gun control laws? Infidels(Non muslims) are forbidden to have a firearm.
Doesnt that just lay the groundwork for a whole lot of Christian persecution?
Over the years, the Church of Christ has grown the most under persecution. Therefore, shouldn't we welcome it on behalf of the kingdom and be glad to give up our life so Christ can gain unbelievers and increase His kingdom?
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#29
Hi, Beth--it's lovely to see you. :)

'the security of a free state'...hmm...that's the thing,
we don't live in a Theocracy here, and the founders knew that.

In The Federalist Papers Madison (y'know, James, the father of the constitution?) write this:
If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.



 
P

psychomom

Guest
#30
I think the Farmers knew well the three views of human nature prevalent during the 'enlightenment' in the 18th century.
The first was that man, while flawed, was perfectible.
:rolleyes:
The second was man is fatally flawed, so we need to accept it and build a society as best we can around that unpleasant fact.
The third (which the Framers believed) was that man, while flawed, is capable of virtuous acts and self-government.
They believed that, under the right circumstances, human nature can work to the advantage of the whole.

We as Christians can easily see that none of those is correct, but the third was the (mis) apprehension of the framers.
I wonder if they thought that because at that time most Americans were Christians, and as such were able to be virtuous
by the grace of God...God working through them?
Anyhoo...they did not try to put the Constitution through the lens of scripture,
so it would be virtually impossible for me to do so! :)
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#32
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." —Romans 13:1
“We have not government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” —U.S. President John Adams
It is tragic that most Bible-believing Christians today are misguided concerning Biblical submission to government. God never intended for Christians to blindly yield to government tyranny, blatant abusive of power and treason against it's own citizens. What ever happened to the Bill of Rights? America's founding father's took matters into their own hands, reviling and revolting against the higher powers. The overthrow of British rule by America's founding father's violates the philosophy of nearly every pastor and Bible-scholar today, who teach that Christians ought to unquestioningly submit to government. Hypocritically, these same religious leaders heartily enjoy freedoms which were secured only through bloodshed inflicted by rebellion and revolt against the abuse and tyranny of the higher powers (i.e., England). Freedom isn't free!!!
Interpreting Romans 13:1-3 in Proper Biblical ContextRomans 13:1-3 reads:
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same."​
Please notice... "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil." This phrase is critically important because it reveals the context in which the Bible is speaking, i.e., appropriate government is only a terror to evil works; but not to good works. Good government is NOT a terror to good works. In other words, when a government is run amuck with crime, tyranny and injustice, we are not Biblically obligated to submit anymore. The Apostle Paul deliberately broke the law. Acts 18:13, “Saying, This fellow persuadeth men to worship God contrary to the law.” We ought to obey God rather than men. Thus, sometimes Christians must rebel against man in order to obey God.To teach otherwise is to condemn America's founding father's, who if they hadn't revolted, there would be no America today. Think about that.Communism is a terror to good works. When Daniel was told it was against the law to pray to God, he prayed anyhow (Daniel 6:10). When Meshach, Shadrach, and Abed-nego were commanded to bow to Nebuchadnezzar's 90-foot golden statue, they broke the king's law by refusing to bow (Daniel3:18). When Herod ordered the 3 wise men to return with information regarding the whereabouts of the Christ child, they didn't return. It takes a good man to break laws made by bad men. Romans 13:1-3 commands believers to obey the "higher powers" as long as the rulers are a terror to evil works, and not to good. God is the highest power. Acts 5:29 plainly states... "We ought to obey God rather than men." In December of 1993, U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno made the following shocking statement...​
"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal." —Former U.S. Attorney General, Janet Reno​
So much for the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, i.e., the right to bear arms. Are you going to surrender your firearms? Is this pleasing to God... to voluntarily get on the train to Auschwitz? The bigger questions is: What are they planning on doing to us that would make us want to have guns? Why are they building concentration camps in America? I ask you... where, at what point, do we as believers have a God-given “right” to defend and fight to retain our freedoms; when we see the whites of their eyes? ...​
"Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes." (William Prescott, Bunker Hill, June 17, 1775)​
Well, even the founding fathers of America weren't stupid enough to surrender their firearms. I'm tired of reading books by Christian leaders, about how believers are supposed to blindly submit to criminal government, when the very existence of “The Land Of The Free” was secured through revolt, resistance, and bloodshed. How hypocritical. Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God! There is a theology of cowardliness circulating in many of our churches today, making excuses and explaining away Scriptures, in an attempt to exempt themselves from the call to battle.​
"...Shall your brethren go to war, and shall ye sit here?" —Numbers 32:6

Freedom verses RightsAlthough God created mankind with the freedom to make his own choices; God never intended for man to have the "right" to be immoral. All sin is immoral. God "commandeth all men every where to repent" (Acts17:30). Liberty is a gift from God. Liberty is the gift of God to make our own decisions. Freedom is a reward for making the right decision.We hear a lot nowadays about a woman's "right to choose"; but what about the baby's "right to life"? It's a baby, not a choice! What makes the mother's life any more precious or valuable than the infants life? The abortion "pro-choice" mentality is synonymous with the same attitude which Nazi's like Adolf Hitler had, i.e., that certain classes of people are higher (better) than others in the evolutionary process, and therefore, have a right to kill off the weaker class. Please read, Devilution. There is much talk about legalizing infanticide (killing children out of the womb).Abortion is an evil work. Just because the government allows such wickedness doesn't make it right in God's eyes. Just because pornography, booze, fornication and casino gambling are allowable by law doesn't make it morally acceptable to God. Just because California's Supreme Court just ruled that gay-marriage is legal won't make them legitimate marriages in God's eyes. The only "gay-marriage" is between and man and a woman. Remember, God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Homosexuality is a work of the Devil, which degrades humanity lower than animals. No wonder NDAA was just passed into law.​
The government can pass all the laws it wants granting sinners the freedom to sin, but God's Law still condemns them (Romans 1:32). No one has a God-given "right" to be immoral. God has the right to decide what is right. Much immorality and wickedness has been allowed in the name of "equal rights." Equal rights with who, the Devil? It all boils down to whether a nation truly has faith in God or not. Freedom, prosperity and faith in God are inseparable, as failed Communist societies have proven. Our founding fathers never intended for separation of Church and State to mean separation of God and State. God is supposed to be in government. 2nd Samuel 23:3, “The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.”


Thinking Outside the BoxIt's high time for Christian believers to start thinking for themselves, instead of solely relying on Bible-scholars, commentaries and such to educate them. I'm not against Bible-study aids; but today's theologians have been tainted with Zionism, perverted bibles, ecumenism, and a blind loyalty to government. We need to use some common sense when studying the Bible, because God is not a nut. Do you really think God wants you to submit to evil government? Would you have handed over your child to be slaughtered by Pharaoh? (Exodus 1:22), or would you have rebelled as Moses mother did (Exodus 2:2,3) when she hid Moses? She broke the law.One must reconcile Romans 13:1-3 with such Scriptures as Psalm 94:16, "Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?" Does this not include evildoers in government? re we only supposed to rise up against workers of iniquity who don't hold a government office? It was Adolf Hitler who said...​
"What luck for the rulers that men do not think." —Adolf Hitler​
Ruthless dictators like Adolf Hitler would absolutely love the attitudes of most pastors and Bible-teachers in America today, who believe that Christians ought to unquestioningly submit to every form of government. For those who want to have their minds filled with brainwashing propaganda, to become bonafied idiots, be sure to watchFoxNews every day. For the truth, you've found my website ministry.​
“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure, when we have removed their only firm basis — a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? And they are not to be violated but with His wrath.”—U.S. President Thomas Jefferson​
The Apostle Paul and AnaniasBut you say, what about Acts 23:1-5 where the Apostle Paul apologized for speaking out against the high priest, Ananias? Upon careful study of this Scripture passage, it is evident that Paul realized his mistake to threaten violence against the high priest (i.e., "God shall smite thee"); but Paul in no way was wrong to assert his rights as a Roman citizen. Paul defended his "rights" as a Roman citizen in Acts 22:25 (also, see Acts 16:37), and again as a "free born" citizen of Rome in Acts 22:28. Certainly, it would be an injustice to the Scriptures to claim that Paul was willing to remain silent and passive concerning the violation of his "rights" as a Roman citizen.​
Please read, What Does Acts 23:1-5 Mean?




When Will People Wake Up?
“Communism is not [and never was] a creation of the masses to overthrow the Banking establishment, but rather a creation of the Banking establishment to overthrow and enslave the people.” —Anthony J. Hilder
Please read: Communism & NWO—Wall Street's Utopian Hoax! The Banking Cartel (who own and control the Federal Reserve Bank) are evil to the core. Here's a free eye-opening video about the criminals who own the Federal Reserve System... The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Lecture on the Federal Reserve (download: Real Audio | MP3). G. Edward Griffin exposes the most blatant scam of all history. It’s all here: the cause of wars, boom-bust cycles, inflation, depression, prosperity. Again, let me quote to you one of the most ruthless mass murderers who ever lived, Adolf Hitler:
"Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way around, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise." —Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" (1926)
Woe unto America, for we are an ignorant, sinfully proud, stiffnecked people! Love for sin always causes a society to become apathetic and complacent concerning morality, justice and freedom. It's high time for America's Christians to wake up, because America is largely Communisttoday and few people realize it.
Please read: Biblical Submission to Government.
It was Patrick Henry who said: "Give me liberty or give me death." I agree. Here are some words of wisdom by Evangelist John R. Rice...​
"As an honest Bible preacher, obeying the plain commands of God, I must speak out against corruption and immorality. Waste, corruption, the taking of men's freedom and the seizing of men's property, these sins every honest preacher must condemn and every honest Christian must disavow.SOURCE: Dr. Rice... Here Are More Questions, by John R. Rice, pg. 249, Sword Of The Lord Publishers (1973)​
As Christians, we must consider that OUR government does what they do in OUR name and with OUR money; therefore it is OUR business.

Any Effort To Restore Liberty Without Morality Is Anarchy
The U.S. Constitution is also a higher power than the federal government, intended to preserve our freedoms and prevent corruption through a series of checks and balances. Unfortunately, even the U.S. Constitution cannot benefit an immoral people.
Our First President who had presided over the Constitutional Convention in his farewell address declared, "​
“Reason and experience forbid us to expect public morality in the absence of religious principal.” —U.S. President George Washington

Our Second President, John Adams, whose wisdom was key to the drafting of our Constitution said...
“We have not government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” —U.S. President John Adams
What a true statement! Now you know why our nation has fallen apart politically, morally, economically and in every other way. Ultimately we will fail if God is not with us in our pursuit to restore liberty. Without God on our side, we are doomed. No amount of human effort is going to deliver us from bondage if we continue to embrace wickedness.


Should Christians Obey Criminal Government?
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#33
I think the Farmers knew well the three views of human nature prevalent during the 'enlightenment' in the 18th century.
The first was that man, while flawed, was perfectible.
:rolleyes:
The second was man is fatally flawed, so we need to accept it and build a society as best we can around that unpleasant fact.
The third (which the Framers believed) was that man, while flawed, is capable of virtuous acts and self-government.
They believed that, under the right circumstances, human nature can work to the advantage of the whole.

We as Christians can easily see that none of those is correct, but the third was the (mis) apprehension of the framers.
I wonder if they thought that because at that time most Americans were Christians, and as such were able to be virtuous
by the grace of God...God working through them?
Anyhoo...they did not try to put the Constitution through the lens of scripture,
so it would be virtually impossible for me to do so! :)
As Christians we are to obey God's law over any manmade law. At the same time we are to submit to governing authorities. Nowhere in the scriptures does it say a Christian is to submit to any governing authority that is corrupt or would cause a Christian to sin.
Therefore, I will look over the Constitution or any law put in place and search the scriptures to see if it lines up with the word of God.

The bible does not say Christians should not defend themselves. The apostles were even armed with swords at times.
The bible tells us to not let evil prevail in the world as well. If the American government turned on its people then we have not only the Constitutional duty, but our Christian duty to prevent evil.
 
C

CDavid

Guest
#34
“A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

I am interested in everyone's view on our right to bear arms from a biblical perspective. Whether you support it or not what scripture do you use to support your view?

It is obvious that in America many feel our rights have come under attack. How do you feel about this?
Because the founding fathers, having just fought a war against government tyranny, and realizing this may be a future need, saw the need for individual states to form a militia for this purpose. For this reason, and many others reasons not mentioned in the document, the founders of this country denied the federal government the power to infringe on the God given right of the people to keep and bare arms.

The founding fathers recognized that all human rights come, not from governments, but from the creator. Gun ownership is a God given freedom of choice, and is protected by the 2nd amendment. Not all citizens love this country, on the same level as others. Citizens having the greatest level of love for country, consider it their patriotic duty to own a fire arms, and be prepared for battle, should the individual state call upon them to fight against the tyranny of an abusive federal government, invading force, or any enemy foreign or domestic.
 
W

webchatter

Guest
#35
Wow, American bashing on a Christian chat site. Believe it or not, a lot of Christians seek the knowledge of the Bible to resolve some issues. I can't think of one thing that could NOT be looked up in the Bible. Maybe someone should be more respectful of other cultures. One verse is not what any Christian is looking for. Neither is one verse the answer. This thread is looking at a lot of verses on the matter. That's how one arrives at a conclusion. You can't just pick out one verse & ignore the others on the same subject.
Tony Martin of Shopshire Endland I think, was jailed 3 years for shooting burglars that were robbing his home. See "A Shot in The Dark" on you tube. I would post it here if I knew how.
It is the job of Michael the archangel to fight evil. If there was no evil we wouldn't need a gun. Revelation , Ezekial, Daniel etc are full of weaponry. Even Jesus will be at the battle of Armageddon. America is a Republic.
I forget the author,(Benjamin Franklin?), but pointing out the differerence between a republic & a democracy it was said:
A democracy is when 2 wolves & a sheep vote on what to eat for dinner.
A republic is when 2 wolves & a sheep with a gun vote on what to eat for dinner.
 
A

AgapeSpiritEyes

Guest
#36
Politics today have become our governing representative and now lord over us deceiving us to accepted the satanic lie that they can create an enviroment our Nation and world where everone trust them to protect and provide for eveyone and everyones needs and wants I.E. they become a viable substitute for GOD, silently the real christ, believe in the government they say they can create heaven utpoia on earth.
 
T

Tan

Guest
#37
Jesus said in Matthew 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Once man has fully understood what Jesus means when he’s says every word, and not run to Paul to turn things upside down, but every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, and starts to obey, a spiritual mindset starts to develop. Your battles becomes the Lord, the Lord will fight for you. In the scriptures its written in Exodus 14:14 The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace. Deuteronomy 20:4 For the LORD your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you. But this only works when we are obedient to God. We live in a world now where man writes his own laws and put God’s laws (commandments) to the side, even though man still needs a part of Gods laws to survive! The world cannot balance out without some of the Lord’s laws (commandments). One main commandment that disconnect people from God (Jesus) is the those who know about the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (Saturday) and do not keep it! The Biblical Sabbath, however, is and has always been on the seventh day of the week, or Saturday. Despite the prevalence of Sunday worship in Christendom, we must look to the Bible as our authority and keep the seventh day Sabbath ordained by God. Is Jesus your Lord? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”? He told the world plainly: in (Ex 20:8-10) (v.8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) “But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God”.

Paul said in Romans 15: 4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. So lets take a look and see what happens when a person sins and expects God’s help. Lets go into Deuteronomy 1:41Then ye answered and said unto me, We have sinned against the LORD, we will go up and fight, according to all that the LORD our God commanded us. And when ye had girded on every man his weapons of war, ye were ready to go up into the hill.

42 And the LORD said unto me, Say unto them. Go not up, neither fight; for I am not among you; lest ye be smitten before your enemies 43 So I spake unto you; and ye would not hear, but rebelled against the commandment of the LORD, and went presumptuously up into the hill.

This still goes on today brothers and sisters… (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26, 27)
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#38
Politics today have become our governing representative and now lord over us deceiving us to accepted the satanic lie that they can create an enviroment our Nation and world where everone trust them to protect and provide for eveyone and everyones needs and wants I.E. they become a viable substitute for GOD, silently the real christ, believe in the government they say they can create heaven utpoia on earth.
In Obama's speech last night he stated that innocent people have died because of a bullet.

Well, a bullet is useless by itself. The bullet has never been a problem. The force behind it is. What is that force? It's man.
For the president of the United States of America to walk on the Constitution is vile. Many men died for our freedom. Much blood was shed, and guns were some of the weapons used so we could have that freedom. Now, he talks about adding more laws to our GOD GIVEN RIGHTS.

When he took office he took an oath, “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

He has lied to the American people, and to God. Yet we will be the ones to suffer for it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#39
In Obama's speech last night he stated that innocent people have died because of a bullet.

Well, a bullet is useless by itself. The bullet has never been a problem. The force behind it is. What is that force? It's man.
For the president of the United States of America to walk on the Constitution is vile. Many men died for our freedom. Much blood was shed, and guns were some of the weapons used so we could have that freedom. Now, he talks about adding more laws to our GOD GIVEN RIGHTS.

When he took office he took an oath, “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

He has lied to the American people, and to God. Yet we will be the ones to suffer for it.

Thats the problem with the country today, It is never the criminals fault. It is the bullet. A bad childhood, Some psychiatric problem (Like ADD). And we wonder why this country is going downhill.
 
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
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#40

Thats the problem with the country today, It is never the criminals fault. It is the bullet. A bad childhood, Some psychiatric problem (Like ADD). And we wonder why this country is going downhill.
Not just your country EG, Britain is the same, sadly