What does the Bible say about....

[Tommy4Christ]

Allowing a child molester or pimp teach teenagers in a Sunday school class?

Personally I don't think its unforgiving or unchristian to deny someone with that past to be placed in a position of power over children or temptation for themselves.

what are your thoughts?

what does the Bible say about it?

Most churches allow these vile sinners to do as they please, they get saved In their sins, and are still defiled in their heart, a very dangerious place for any child to be in.
The mercy of God is granted to those who truly stop and forsake their sins, not the ones who cover them!

Your enemies pretend!
Psa 66:3 Say to God, How much to be feared are Your works! Through the greatness of Your power, Your enemies pretend obedience to You.
Yes, we are to fear God! Those who are righteous (doing what is right by faith) have a healthy and respectful fear of God, knowing just how awesome and powerful He is! And we know that obeying His commands is a pleasure, and a part of our everyday life.
His power is forever evident in His great and mighty creation, and in His wonderful works of love, mercy, and continued guidance and protection to His true saints!
But there is always a strong contrast between the righteous and the wicked, the light and the dark, and the friends of God and His enemies! The right ones are simply the called out ones, who have actually crucified their flesh with Christ in repentance, and have a real saving faith built on obedience to the truth, keeping unspotted from the world, have departed from iniquity, and are dead to sin (willful acts of rebellion and lust) now cleansed and purged by the precious blood of Christ, standing in the gap for Him and His truth!
Many today who profess to be of Christ, see nothing wrong with pretending to obey God, they defend their right to sin, which to them means they are not perfect, and struggle and stumble every day.
But do they mean they struggle and stumble with immortality? Being a drunkard? Violent out bursts? Adultery or fornication?
Yes, many who profess Christ think they cannot obey God, mocking His great power over sin, temptation and the devil, they have many excuses why obedience is an option, and why they cannot obey Him, by repenting (stopping) their sin and rebellion against Him, then follow His son Jesus Christ on the narrow path that leads to life, they say Jesus did it for them, His obedience covers their ongoing disobedience and love of the world, but then they have no answer when God said:
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them.
So the enemies of God are not just the vile criminals waiting on death row to be punished for their crimes, but the ones who make every excuse in the book why they can come into the kingdom still defiled, full of sin and disobedience, hoping God will change them in due time, while they bank their whole eternal destiny on being born a sinner, (pagan Augustinian teaching)) unable and unwilling to repent, and stop their willful acts of rebellion against God.
Thus the great exchange is made for them, aka substitution, where the obedience and righteousness of Christ is magically transferred to their account, now they are off the hook, obedience to them is a good thing to do, but never mandatory as commanded!
Tommy

 

[Ariel82]

Most churches allow these vile sinners to do as they please,

no tommy that's a lie.

most churches do NOT allow such people to do as they please,

though some will argue that its unCHristian to have discernment or prudence, most would NOT allow such things.

 

[Enow]

Allowing a child molester or pimp teach teenagers in a Sunday school class?

Personally I don't think its unforgiving or unchristian to deny someone with that past to be placed in a position of power over children or temptation for themselves.

what are your thoughts?

what does the Bible say about it?

Parents are charged for the care of their children.

If we are to not cause a brother to stumble if they are known alcoholics, by not using our liberty of drinking wine or one beer moderately in front of those that are convicted not to drink at all, then that would be the same towards entrusting the children in the care of someone that is a child molester or a pimp even if they are a believer in Jesus Christ.

I have heard of laws forbidding convicted child molesters from being in the vicinity of any schools or public places where children are known to be present like at a park, and so I cannot see how they can allow them to be IN the schools.

Check with the law and see if there isn't precedent to remove such a person from within the school without having to campaign for it.

If the ACLU has a problem with it, then they can send their kids to that class. The people should demand it from those that hide behind the law and yet are unwilling to agree with it themselves.

Would a child molester entrust his or her kid to another child molester? No. No matter how reformed or born again they are.

It should be a no brainer, but those that have done evil and would be tempted to do evil would cry foul without thinking about the common sense of it.

 

[homwardbound]

Paul wasn't a murderer, he was complacent and party to unjust executions... That's very bad for sure, but it's a very far cry from being a murderer...

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

A child molester is a type of fornication. Let God judge him, let God decide on his heart, and put him away from yourselves.

There is no reason for this person to be part of a church authority structure at all, and puting them there is inviting wickedness into the church.

This is not an issue of forgiveness or unforgivenes. That's up to God. This is an issue of keeping evil from amongst yourselves. Like all the laws of God its about preventing evil.

And the greasy grace in the name of forgiveness about half the people here are talking about, thats inviting evil. Allowing such a person to be in such a position is not good for either that person himself nor for the people he's overseeing. You're asking for a problem because, as Tintin said, you're not using your brain.

Now let us say that you ask this man if he is repentant and he says yes, then you ask if he thinks he could be around kids and he says no. Is he being honest? is he truly possibly repentant. You see thier are Questions we can ask to see if one is truly repentant, We watch thier physical reactions and thier eyes reactions then we will know. but remember this as well if we say we cannot let them in to our church we are wrong, and if we treat them with malice again how are they ever going tocometo Faith in God. I know I did come to Faith in God because of his kindness, do not anyone of us know that it is God's kindmess that leads a person to repentance and faith (trust) in God and that we the believers are to be the vessels for God to show them this love.
My sister died on an overdose at age 18, Iwas 14 when this took place, I saw her repent and stop doing drugs, she was known as a druggie back in the day, and went amongst the Holier than thou group as I think we all have been one time or another and maybe still are God knoweth I don't and that is not my issue it is the ones that do not put forth Mercy after Mercy is thier for them to recieve. My Sister recieved this Mercy and was forsaken by the people the goody goodies and my Sister was ashamed and did not know what to do and ended up in Hade Ashbury and died of an overdose. This might have been prevented if the supossed people of God would have accepted her as God has (past tense) accepted you. I really do not know nor do I regret what has happend, for it is what it is, I cannot change what is. But I can learn from it and not be angry over it. Seek from God what do I do and hear from God just love them from a sincere heart and if you do not let them in and they see that you do have a sincere love of God in you they will acceptthis haveing the same love of God back, then you will know they are repentant when a person knows they deserve nothing. It is undeserved grace that God has given me, you and, everyone it is up to us to react in thanks and seek discernment not from this world but from God himself. As Job told those worldy counselors that said to him that all this tragedy is because you must have sinned and Job at the end said he knew his redeemer liveth and had trust in this.
Even when Jesus walked here and healed that blnd man from birth the disciples asked who sinned that this man beblind from birth and he answered neither
Does anyone here see the Mercy that has been poured on them but are still worldly and need to seek God themselves in the truth.
Just because the whole wrold has been forgiven does not give salvation for it is the death that brought forth forgiveness and one can't live in death. Thereofre it is the life that does the salvation yet the death was needed first to clear the deck os sin that caused death, death from Christ brought this and initiated the whole world to be forgiven, butlife is not yet here. It is up to us to trust for God the Father to bring us back to life after we die to our selves with Chrsit back on the cross thne afte God does this we can tell others of this amazing grace and this pedophile, murderer, and so forth willquit in light of this truth and be born again in the Spirit of God
It is by LOVE that we are saved being in a new life of Love MERCY AND HONOR. Above your sacrifices and gifts GOD REQUIRES MERCY

 

[loveme1]

In our Church you get a back ground check, and references before you get anywhere near the children.

Would there ever be a time when you would allow a person who confesses doing things in the past but says he would never do them again to care after children?

I consider that is the question here.


my answer is: i believe there is a time.

 

[homwardbound]

It would probably a good idea to keep rom the temptation they once had

AND A TRULY REPENTANT PERSON WOULD TELL YOU THIS, AND ASK ABOUT THE TRUTH AND WE BETTER HAVE JESUS ON TAP FOR THIS OTHERWISE THE WORLDLY WAYS TAKE OVER MAKING ONE FEEL RIGHTEOUS WHEN NOONE EVER IS IN AND OF THEMSELVES.
I HAVE NO RIGHTEOUSNESS OF MY OWN NONE NEVER HAVE NEVER WILL. I DO HAVE RIGHTEOUSNESS THOUGH YET IT IS NOT MINE IT IS CHRIST JESUS'S AND I HAVE CHOSEN TO PARTICIPATE IN IT, WHICH FROM FATHER'S PERSPECTIVE HAS MADE ME RIGHTEOUS IN HIM. HIM USING ME AS ME BEING HIS VESSEL TO PASS OUT THE LOVE THAT HE HAS GIVEN OUT THROUGH HIS SON BY TAKING OUT OF THE WAY THE LAW THAT CONDEMNED US ALL BECAUSE WE WERE WEAK AND ARE WEAK IN AND OF OUR OWN FLESH
Romans 10:4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.



THEREFORE IN BEING MADE RIGHTEOUS THROUGH BELIEF, LET US SHOW MERCY AS GOD HAS SHOWN YOU!!!!!

 

[homwardbound]

if but how do we as humans know the conditions of a man's heart?

ASK GOD BROTHER AND ASK THAT MAN, SEE IN THE SPIRIT YOU WILL KNOW

 

[homwardbound]

Two men could come along one confessing His past behaviour the other declaring himself to of never done such things.

You could believe the first man has been made New and would not do any wrong again .

Or you could trust the second man who says He has never done such things to start with.

Which would you be most comfortable with?

Both men are giving you their word, which man's heart can we see?

The one that confesses is the one I am more apt to trust

 

[loveme1]

The one that confesses is the one I am more apt to trust

It gave me much to consider myself.

 

[homwardbound]

I think we're confusing forgiveness with prudence. I am heartened every time I hear of someone who has turned their life around by the Grace of God. At the same time, I am not going to put my children alone in the company of a child molester. I would absolutely allow my children to listen to the testimony of, say, a child molester who has repented and moved forward preaching The Word. That doesn't mean I'm going to hire him as my babysitter. I have no problem with a convicted thief, murderer, etc. joining my church and turning his life over to Christ...or preaching The Word. That doesn't mean I'm moving them into my spare bedroom.

But what if God told you to. like God told Abram to take his son to and sacrifice. I think if prior to Abram going to go and do this as he believed God if anyone of us knew of this calling we would have done what. Again I ask what if God told you to? would you move him in to your home. I am talking as if you know God and hear his voice.
Should Abram who became Abraham do what he went ot go do? Peoplelaughed in the time of Noah building the Ark when it had never yet rained. They thought he was crazy

 

[homwardbound]

I would truthfully tell this man that he does not need to place himself in a position of temptation or have authority over children but instead focus on other tasks within the church that he is more suited to doing.

IS God unforgiving when HE says NO to something you want to do?

why then when we His children use prudence and loving care for our young are we considered unforgiving or judgemental by not allowing someone with that background to have authority over our little ones?

as someone said. he can give his testimony, but I would not have him babysit or teach doctrine to my children.

just because someone wants to do something does not mean it is unforgiving to tell them that they are not qualified for that job. It is better for them to walk in the works God created for them to walk in and not grasp for power and authority that through their actions has shown to be NOT what God intended for them to be or do.

being a sex offender, child molester or pimp disqualifies you from working with children. even if you are reformed. even if you are made new. you can still be a part of the church, just not in that ministry. there are other ministries: prison ministries, elderly ministries, etc.

Yes Ariel I agree and htis person if is trying to get me to let them be in a place of children then /i would know by this that they are not repentant and just trying to fool me, being repentant they would tell you truthfull not to have them around children and if they ever were to be they would ask for someone else to be there and not ever alone with any children

 

[Ariel82]

My sister died on an overdose at age 18, Iwas 14 when this took place, I saw her repent and stop doing drugs, she was known as a druggie back in the day, and went amongst the Holier than thou group, the ones that do not put forth Mercy after Mercy is thier for them to recieve. My Sister recieved this Mercy and was forsaken by the people the goody goodies and my Sister was ashamed and did not know what to do and ended up in Hade Ashbury and died of an overdose. This might have been prevented if the supossed people of God would have accepted her as God has (past tense) accepted you. Y

are you blaming others for your sister's death?

what did she repent of?

godly sorrow leads to repentance.

wordly sorrow leads to death.

often times people mistakenly think that someone truly understands the mercy of God and His forgiveness when in truth they only understand the outer casing and just looking for the approval of men.

the sad part is that no one reaches out to those who have the outer casings without the true Gospel because they don't truly see the need or perhaps they too only have the outer casings as well without the Seed within.

i'm going to keep you in my prayers.

we may not understand everything but remember

Romans 8
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

 

[Ariel82]

Yes Ariel I agree and htis person if is trying to get me to let them be in a place of children then /i would know by this that they are not repentant and just trying to fool me, being repentant they would tell you truthfull not to have them around children and if they ever were to be they would ask for someone else to be there and not ever alone with any children

thank you love you bro.

gotta do my chores now.

 

[Enow]

Originally Posted by Ariel82

if but how do we as humans know the conditions of a man's heart?

ASK GOD BROTHER AND ASK THAT MAN, SEE IN THE SPIRIT YOU WILL KNOW

Psssst.......That's sister to you, brother. FYI

 

[homwardbound]

It gave me much to consider myself.

By our mistakes and not listening to the voice of God through the Holy Ghost we learn discernment and how to listen anddo accordingly from past mistakes I think this is why we are to count it all joy and be thankful in all things this iswhen we actually learn to seperate truth from error

 

[homwardbound]

are you blaming others for your sister's death?

what did she repent of?

godly sorrow leads to repentance.

wordly sorrow leads to death.

often times people mistakenly think that someone truly understands the mercy of God and His forgiveness when in truth they only understand the outer casing and just looking for the approval of men.

the sad part is that no one reaches out to those who have the outer casings without the true Gospel because they don't truly see the need or perhaps they too only have the outer casings as well without the Seed within.

i'm going to keep you in my prayers.

we may not understand everything but remember

Romans 8
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

It is actually between God and my Sister whether or not God has saved her, whether she truly believed or not. Her bible was highlighted showing signs that she was sorrowful and wanted to waht was right with God and that she changed her mind from unbelief to belief, Also her actions before the death occured was of being anew but the people that are holier than thou refused her. And yes I know that all things ALL work towards the good of God which in retrospect os for my good as well
My hope of coarse is that she is in Heaven. I have been confirmed of this and was amazing how this came to be was I was crying at school and another girl walked up to me and said to me without knoiwing what had happened with my Sister, she said to me that my Sister was not having any fun in Heaven right now. I looked up in tears and said what, she looked at and because she is too busy catching all my tears. I was amazed and stopped crying not that I never do anymore for I am now cause I do miss her still after 42 years, and if she is not in Heaven God I trust has God's reasons for it, I know that God is trustworhty, Holy, forever righteous and is full of Mercy. So whatever God decides is what God decides. I am glad to lnow as well God is not a tyran, and want us all to know this, it was 3 years later that my Dad died and then it was four years later that my oldest brother John died, and throrugh all just these tragedies alone I have learnt GODJUSTLOVEME aqnd you and you and you. My Sister overdose a waste of life here on earth, my Dad old age but not that Old 63 he was and the stress of his daughter dying is what killed him. Then my oldest Brother a genius a believer a legalist, had to obey the Law completely as I hear and see from so many that are at work trying to please God by what they are doing or someone here on earth as well.
This was my brother and he did he accomplished straight A's in College and school before College went on and was a mastermind in computers hired by the government. But he gave up allthis laviushness of making money and decided he was going to go to work for Campus crusade fro Christ in San Bernadino Ca. this was in 1975 Three years later something happened and he was put in the Hospital he had a nervous breakdown. He came home and started drinking Alcohol and smoking Cigarrettes for the first time in his life and Iwas hey where is my Brother that was so against any thing wrong.
Well thisis what happened he went back to Campus Crusade for Christ he was found on A Sunday two miles above the Sanctuary leaned against a bolulder with a Bible in his hand found by Hikers.
The Autopsy report reported after three autopsies found no cause of death just that he was dead, they wanted to do more but I told them this does not matter because I am now convinced and they said convinced of what and I said Jesus Christ is real no doubt in my mind.
Okay now after all this and in going over this situation reliving the events prior to this death. My Brother had a conversation with a pastor that we grew up with and according to this pastor John knew that God had called him Home and it was going to take place. My Brother for three nigths on a row in his bedroom left the light on all night while he slept, with every picture and saying of God Christ strategically placed surrounding him on the bed, I know becasue when I came home late after partying I saw the ligh ton and the door partially opened and peeked in that is what I saw. Now on the day he was going back to San Bernandino he said to me actually started to say then he backed up and said to me all I can tell you (me) is that all this smoking and drinkinig is not good. I was like okay being bewildered. Then all this occured he died there and no cause was found and Iam convinced that Christ is for real. Then in Comversation with my oldest Sister the one that did not die told me her conversation with Johnny as she calls him. He told her Gretchen Ihave tried all my life to please God and Mom And Dad by doing what is right. Gretchen I have found out that GOD JUST LOVE ME. tHEREFORE HERE CAME THE BLOG GODJUSTLOVEYOU.BLOGSPOT.COM gOD IS THE SAVER AND WE ARE THE RESPONDERS THE ONLYWAY THAT WE CAN RECIEVE THE LOVE OF GOD. By trying to be a performer is good because then when one comes to the end of the energy of thier oown strength then thet turn to God for salvation and God the Father leads them to his Son's finished work where they are now repented of thier sins complete for God himself took them all away the sin issue from God's vantage point has been dealt with ready to bring you back to a new life in his Son Christ Jesus sealing this with the Holy Ghost of promise. Then you walk in God's type of love 1 cor 13 holding no records of wrongs, never proud or boastful or envious rejoices in truth and go and read this and have this shed abroad in your heart and you will know who is repeantant or not and see that what they need still after being repentant is new life. Salvation is not in being repentant for that is where the death of one that is repentant occurs and need to know that they have been forgiven back at the cross of Christ it is done (John 19:30) then they can ask for the new life from God and God raises the beleiver back to life as he did his own Son Jesus three days laterRomans 6:1-6 explains this well just read it personally as if this is written to you the believer and reckon yourself afterwords as dead to sin but alive to God by the operation of God never self
I know this is a little off base but felt this needed to be said forgive me any wrong I might have pur on anyone here at CC
Love you all Homwardbound

 

[homwardbound]

Psssst.......That's sister to you, brother. FYI

I will crawl out of this alright as i apologize the crawl out is there is no Jew, no greek, no gentile, no male no female in the sight of God we are all one those that believe
Thanks Enow

 

[HEIsRiSen]

I don't think it is wise to place a person in a situation that may tempt them or cause them to stumble.

 

[JGPS]

Now let us say that you ask this man if he is repentant and he says yes, then you ask if he thinks he could be around kids and he says no. Is he being honest? is he truly possibly repentant. You see thier are Questions we can ask to see if one is truly repentant, We watch thier physical reactions and thier eyes reactions then we will know.

It's not my responsibility to determine who is truely repentant, that's Gods alone. There are many methods to read peoples behaviour and predict their actions, but such methods have no bearing on this discussion. It does not effectively matter weather they are truely repentant or not, we're talking about a responsibility to protect those around us from evil. It's not talked about often enough, but it is a very real responsibility.

but remember this as well if we say we cannot let them in to our church we are wrong, and if we treat them with malice again how are they ever going tocometo Faith in God.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with malice or kindness. The person who has done wrong does not exist in a void where that person is our only consideration. Their effects, both immediate and potential, on the people around them matter. This is why you do not allow ongoing sin in the church. This is why you do not let people with past sins in areas of authority related to their sin.

I know I did come to Faith in God because of his kindness, do not anyone of us know that it is God's kindmess that leads a person to repentance and faith (trust) in God and that we the believers are to be the vessels for God to show them this love.
My sister died on an overdose at age 18, Iwas 14 when this took place, I saw her repent and stop doing drugs, she was known as a druggie back in the day, and went amongst the Holier than thou group

It doesn't sound like the group she fell into was particularity good. In reality this doesn't have much bearing on the topic at hand.

as I think we all have been one time or another and maybe still are God knoweth I don't and that is not my issue it is the ones that do not put forth Mercy after Mercy is thier for them to recieve. My Sister recieved this Mercy and was forsaken by the people the goody goodies and my Sister was ashamed and did not know what to do and ended up in Hade Ashbury and died of an overdose. This might have been prevented if the supossed people of God would have accepted her as God has (past tense) accepted you. I really do not know nor do I regret what has happend, for it is what it is, I cannot change what is.

The last statement is the only bit of sense in there. To be honest I'm having trouble making heads or tails of some of those sentences themselves. I gather you don't know exactly what happened, nor do you really know the character of the supposed christian group she fell in with. It still doesn't seem to have any bearing on this topic.

But I can learn from it and not be angry over it. Seek from God what do I do and hear from God just love them from a sincere heart and if you do not let them in and they see that you do have a sincere love of God in you they will acceptthis haveing the same love of God back, then you will know they are repentant when a person knows they deserve nothing.

Then they will seek nothing. By your own standard if a molester sought out a position of authority that in and of itself would prove them to be unrepentant. I would tend to agree with that statement.

It is undeserved grace that God has given me, you and, everyone it is up to us to react in thanks and seek discernment not from this world but from God himself. As Job told those worldy counselors that said to him that all this tragedy is because you must have sinned and Job at the end said he knew his redeemer liveth and had trust in this.
Even when Jesus walked here and healed that blnd man from birth the disciples asked who sinned that this man beblind from birth and he answered neither
Does anyone here see the Mercy that has been poured on them but are still worldly and need to seek God themselves in the truth.
Just because the whole wrold has been forgiven does not give salvation for it is the death that brought forth forgiveness and one can't live in death. Thereofre it is the life that does the salvation yet the death was needed first to clear the deck os sin that caused death, death from Christ brought this and initiated the whole world to be forgiven, butlife is not yet here. It is up to us to trust for God the Father to bring us back to life after we die to our selves with Chrsit back on the cross thne afte God does this we can tell others of this amazing grace and this pedophile, murderer, and so forth willquit in light of this truth and be born again in the Spirit of God
It is by LOVE that we are saved being in a new life of Love MERCY AND HONOR. Above your sacrifices and gifts GOD REQUIRES MERCY

MERCY IS NOT GIVING A CHILD MOLESTER A SUNDAY SCHOOL JOB.

There really needs to be no other bottom line than that. It's not all about the wrongdoing. Sinners can be helped in many ways, giving them positions of authority in the church is not one of them.

No one needs a position of authority, it is no harm to any person if their past actions prohibit them from having it.

 

[Tintin]

Yes, yes, yes! I'm disgusted that some people here seem to have no problem with an ex-child molester being around children. The loving thing to do is to keep the person away from temptations and the children away from potential abuse.