Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man

[mark54]

brothers!
with an arian!
well then.....

You see Abiding if you do not have courage to rebuke the instigator who is well known to go round this website hounding people, distorting their beliefs, constantly harrassing them, trying to belittle them etc why do you rebuke me?

Zone
Do yourself a favour. Have a bonfire, throw all you theological books on it, and rely on someone else to learn, then you might stop condenming people for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth. For at the moment you can be no more than a very imature Christian(notice I do not say you are not a Christian)

 

[zone]

You see Abiding if you do not have courage to rebuke the instigator who is well known to go round this website hounding people, distorting their beliefs, constantly harrassing them, trying to belittle them etc why do you rebuke me?

Zone
Do yourself a favour. Have a bonfire, throw all you theological books on it, and rely on someone else to learn, then you might stop condenming people for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth. For at the moment you can be no more than a very imature Christian(notice I do not say you are not a Christian)

a) Abiding has nothing to do with me.

b) i don't care what you call me.

c) Arianism is heresy

d) k?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You see Abiding if you do not have courage to rebuke the instigator who is well known to go round this website hounding people, distorting their beliefs, constantly harrassing them, trying to belittle them etc why do you rebuke me?

Zone
Do yourself a favour. Have a bonfire, throw all you theological books on it, and rely on someone else to learn, then you might stop condenming people for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth. For at the moment you can be no more than a very imature Christian(notice I do not say you are not a Christian)

your best bet is to just ignore her. she will not leave you alone.. you know the old saying, resist, and they will flee. As long as she KNOWS she can get a response from you, she will continue to come after you, it is the way they function.

I know it is hard. I have fallen for it way to many times myself..

 

[mark54]

a) Abiding has nothing to do with me.

b) i don't care what you call me.

c) Arianism is heresy

d) k?

Which theologian or scholar told you that?
Or did they all tell you?

I have never claimed to be an Arian BTW
Truth is Zone, you haven't got a clue as to much of any importance, for like I say in your blindness you go around condemining people for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked tihs earth. You also refuse to accept the requirenmt of belief as to who Christ is unto salvation that Christ himself laid down
But you do consider yourself wise in your own eyes becasue of all those theologians and scholars you have read of

You have theoloigised yourself away from understanding the basics of the Christian faith

 

[zone]

your best bet is to just ignore her. she will not leave you alone.. you know the old saying, resist, and they will flee. As long as she KNOWS she can get a response from you, she will continue to come after you, it is the way they function.

I know it is hard. I have fallen for it way to many times myself..

EG this is a joke.
you're totally in error. still are

you went on and on and perpetually did fifty mile long rants on how Daniel 9 isn't fulfilled, Land this and that....for years.
i got sick of it, you didn't like it.
now you're bent out of shape.
it's that simple.

why are you even still bothering....seriously : looking for support from JWs?
whatever.

 

[mark54]

EG this is a joke.
you're totally in error. still are

you went on and on and perpetually did fifty mile long rants on how Daniel 9 isn't fulfilled, Land this and that....for years.
i got sick of it, you didn't like it.
now you're bent out of shape.
it's that simple.

why are you even still bothering....seriously : looking for support from JWs?
whatever.

lol
i thought I was an Arian make your mind up

 

[Abiding]

right!

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

in the greek it's a double negative. meaning it is not possible.

and then there are all those passages about deceiving and being deceived.
that would be evil men and imposters and such.

Jesus said His sheep know His voice and will never follow another.​Another Christ. He didnt mean bad doctrine. Otherwise He wouldnt have warned so often what to watch out for. And He was talking to believers.
i believe Him.

He also said those who were not His sheep couldn't understand His words.
they couldn't because they were not His sheep.
There is a very good interpretation out there besides the reformed one..im sure your aware of it. If not it kinda rhymes with what Jesus said to the Pharisees..."if" you knew Abraham you would know me.....at this point i reject the reformed interpretation of that text.



skinski makes the charge of gnostic*** against reformed theology too.

Anyone who studied church history or read the newtestament deeply
will see gnosticism. And see it come in and out of the church in different
ways whether throught charismania or academia.

I made a valid statement out of a reaction.

The reason is this. When a person says that nothing spiritual can
be understood unless your bornagain. Then responds to what is clear
in scripture and says its interpreted by the deeper things is to me gnostic.
Jesus taught us to humble ourselves. As little children.
Jesus thanked the Father that He refused to give it to the wise and gave it to babes.
Ive always had big issues with any elitist type of attitude or teaching.
Even tho i agree there is milk and meat.

Whether im just like skinski or no, you judge. His attitude
turns me off so i cant say ive paid that much attention to
him.....ive only read enuf of his stuff to know he doesnt
understand as much as he thinks he does. And beats sheep.

Altho i agree nothing can deceive the very elect....meaning take their faith
and salvation or separate them from the Love of God. They can be deceived
by the deceitfulness of sin, or false teachers, or their lack of personal
stewardship of their spiritual duties...etc and get all messed up, and put out of commission
as far as their effectiveness in the kingdom and lose future rewards.

So of coarse we need to defend the faith. In a way that makes us our
brothers keeper. But that isnt monergism. Howbeit God does empower it.
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
5“I am the vine; you are the branches."If" you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

My point is .....nevermind. Another day maybe

 

[zone]

....condemining people for standing on the plain words of Christ.....

blah blah blah
Jesus is not God, He is a god.
yak yak

it's heresy now and it always has been.
maybe you need a new diet. or summink.

 

[mark54]

blah blah blah
Jesus is not God, He is a god.
yak yak

it's heresy now and it always has been.
maybe you need a new diet. or summink.

Sorry to burst your theological bubble, but Christ is not the one true God according to Christ, but according to the Father, His name is in His son
Problem you got, is all you can do is read up on whast your scholars and theologians tell you and believe them

You are so lost in that world Zone
I have seen you on this website ridiculethe gifts of bthe Spirit for today
You know if they do exist still, you are then ridiculing the work of the Holy Spirit on this earth, but that doesn't bother you does it.
You must also believe you have more spiritual conviction, or insight than nearly all of the ministers in the trinitarian chirches, for they will not preach plainly from the pulpit what you do on the internet
You are so blinded in your own arrogance, but as I said, one day you will have to answer for it, and there will be no audience to try and impress on that day

 

[zone]

Anyone who studied church history or read the newtestament deeply
will see gnosticism. And see it come in and out of the church in different
ways whether throught charismania or academia.

I made a valid statement out of a reaction.

The reason is this. When a person says that nothing spiritual can
be understood unless your bornagain. Then responds to what is clear
in scripture and says its interpreted by the deeper things is to me gnostic.
Jesus taught us to humble ourselves. As little children.
Jesus thanked the Father that He refused to give it to the wise and gave it to babes.
Ive always had big issues with any elitist type of attitude or teaching.
Even tho i agree there is milk and meat.

Whether im just like skinski or no, you judge. His attitude
turns me off so i cant say ive paid that much attention to
him.....ive only read enuf of his stuff to know he doesnt
understand as much as he thinks he does. And beats sheep.

Altho i agree nothing can deceive the very elect....meaning take their faith
and salvation or separate them from the Love of God. They can be deceived
by the deceitfulness of sin, or false teachers, or their lack of personal
stewardship of their spiritual duties...etc and get all messed up, and put out of commission
as far as their effectiveness in the kingdom and lose future rewards.

So of coarse we need to defend the faith. In a way that makes us our
brothers keeper. But that isnt monergism. Howbeit God does empower it.
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
5“I am the vine; you are the branches."If" you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

My point is .....nevermind. Another day maybe

what is there to respond to when you make a claim about something
argue against something
then always close with a qualifier saying you don't disagree?

talking about deeper issues is gnosticism? really?
then why are you even on this thread making claims you understand what's being said?

nobody i know has ever said the simple Gospel isn't what saves.
the other issues have been discussed since the beginning and always will be until the Lord returns.
what's the big deal.

why read theologians?
isn't that gnostic?

anyways.....scripture itself says the natural man doesn't understand spiritual things.
you take that as someone on a forum claiming spiritual superiority.

you say "what is clear in scripture" - yet i have not seen you lay it out.

i don't care if you're a synergist or not, really, or if you don't like the idea of monergism.
i'm just a little baffled at the current inconsistency.
so it's really difficult to know what your positions are.

which doesn't really matter anyways.

Jesus said it was not possible for the elect to be deceived.
that particular context was false christs and false prophets and signs and wonder and deception.
in this case, you won't allow it as an overall application for His saved (until the very end of your post),
yet you don't hold to the same standard for the things you wish to prove or disprove.

it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other at the end of the day.

it says NOT POSSIBLE for the ELECT to be deceived.

He used the word elect.
take it up with Him.

 

[Abiding]

a) Abiding has nothing to do with meThats cux your a heretic!

b) i don't care what you call me.Ok your a big fat heretic!

c) Arianism is heresy And so is zoneyism!

d) k?

K! ​jk just wanted to get marks hopes up.

 

[Abiding]

what is there to respond to when you make a claim about something
argue against something
then always close with a qualifier saying you don't disagree?

talking about deeper issues is gnosticism? really?
then why are you even on this thread making claims you understand what's being said?

nobody i know has ever said the simple Gospel isn't what saves.
the other issues have been discussed since the beginning and always will be until the Lord returns.
what's the big deal.

why read theologians?
isn't that gnostic?

anyways.....scripture itself says the natural man doesn't understand spiritual things.
you take that as someone on a forum claiming spiritual superiority.

you say "what is clear in scripture" - yet i have not seen you lay it out.

i don't care if you're a synergist or not, really, or if you don't like the idea of monergism.
i'm just a little baffled at the current inconsistency.
so it's really difficult to know what your positions are.

which doesn't really matter anyways.

Jesus said it was not possible for the elect to be deceived.
that particular context was false christs and false prophets and signs and wonder and deception.
in this case, you won't allow it as an overall application for His saved (until the very end of your post),
yet you don't hold to the same standard for the things you wish to prove or disprove.

it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other at the end of the day.

it says NOT POSSIBLE for the ELECT to be deceived.

He used the word elect.
take it up with Him.

You then must be blind. It doesnt seem you can ever see a point. At least in my posts.
We can all be deceived in many ways. You see one way. Think your elect and
cant be wrong. I see your point tho. Wow! ok.

 

[zone]

Christ is not the one true God

i know that's your schtick.
it's still heresy.
it was two minutes ago when you posted it.

but you have friends here

I have seen you on this website ridiculethe gifts of bthe Spirit for today
You know if they do exist still,

they don't.

You must also believe you have more spiritual conviction, or insight than nearly all of the ministers in the trinitarian chirches, for they will not preach plainly from the pulpit what you do on the internet

z-z-z-z-z-z-z

You are so blinded in your own arrogance, but as I said, one day you will have to answer for it, and there will be no audience to try and impress on that day

if you say so.
i dunno who you'll be falling down on your knees before.
it better not be Jesus - that would be IDOLATRY.

bye then

 

[zone]

You then must be blind. It doesnt seem you can ever see a point. At least in my posts.
We can all be deceived in many ways. You see one way. Think your elect and
cant be wrong. I see your point tho. Wow! ok.

no, i see the points you make.
it's the qualifiers that make me wonder what you are disagreeing with.

i never said i couldn't be deceived...not decieved away from salvation, and not in any of the ways JESUS HIMSELF listed.
it says NOT POSSIBLE.

i believe Him. don't you?

what was the qualification on His sheep not following another.....and the "other interpretation"?
why not just say what it is...why be cryptic.
that's what i don't get.
suggesting you have an alternative interpretation but not providing it doesn't do much.
that's what i mean.

He said we know His voice. that means Scripture, doesn't it?

nobody can read your mind, mike
just write it....whatever it is.

citing sources when used is helpful also.
k....ttyl.

 

[mark54]

i know that's your schtick.
it's still heresy.
it was two minutes ago when you posted it.

but you have friends here



they don't.



z-z-z-z-z-z-z



if you say so.
i dunno who you'll be falling down on your knees before.
it better not be Jesus - that would be IDOLATRY.

bye then

So anyone who believes Jesus is not the one true God is a heretic
I guess that applies to Christ and Paul as well then to you

And we might as well add John to that in your eyes, for he agreed with Chrtist as to who a person must believe Christ to be unto salvation, but you refuse to accept that requirement of belief. And he said no one has seen God at anytime

Yoy really are a babe in the faith aren't you. And you are totally reliant on your scholars and theologians to learn, you'd be lost without them. Actually, I am begining to see just how tragic this is

And I don't profess to be wonderfully mature in the faith BTW

 

[zone]

So anyone who believes Jesus is not the one true God is a heretic
I guess that applies to Christ and Paul as well then to you

And we might as well add John to that in your eyes, for he agreed with Chrtist as to who a person must believe Christ to be unto salvation, but you refuse to accept that requirement of belief.

Yoy really are a babe in the faith aren't you. And you are totally reliant on your scholars and theologians to learn, you'd be lost without them. Actually, I am begining to see just how tragic this is

And I don't profess to be wonderfully mature in the faith BTW

you've become a complete bore.
so done.

 

[mark54]

you've become a complete bore.
so done.

It's far more exciting reading up on the beast with ten horns, the whore of Babylon, the pre trib rapture, fillique, predestination etc than chatting to me, I understand

Do I take it you won't be putting posts up to me anymore, or are we just having an interim period before we recommence discussion?

 

[GreenNnice]

It's far more exciting reading up on the beast with ten horns, the whore of Babylon, the pre trib rapture, fillique, predestination etc than chatting to me, I understand

Do I take it you won't be putting posts up to me anymore, or are we just having an interim period before we recommence discussion?

You guys should kiss and make up, ohzone, markymark, the both of you don't see how bitterly you speak the vitriolic speech, and, Christian against Christian.

markymark, you do call yourself a 'Christian,' right? Not a JW? Not an arian ?

OK, so, who knows the heart of man but one, who is true , God.

----------

one thing I think should be said and I am not sure how it gets explained away, is that in John 3:16, God calls Jesus His 'Son,' now, if John 3:16 called Jesus His 'son,' then that would signify that Jesus is fully man and not fully God, but, since God calls Jesus His Son then it's quite heir apparent, pun intended, that this lineage of God is another 'God.' And, since there is ONLY one true God, then, one must put One and One together and get One

 

[mark54]

markymark, you do call yourself a 'Christian,' right? Not a JW? Not an arian ?

the ministers in the Trinitarian churches I have been to for thirty years all considered me a Christian, will that do?
No queries were put on my Christianity till I came on the internet

I think the ministers who have known me are best qualified to give proper opininos as to whether I am a Christian or not

 

[Abiding]

no, i see the points you make.
it's the qualifiers that make me wonder what you are disagreeing with.

i never said i couldn't be deceived...not decieved away from salvation, and not in any of the ways JESUS HIMSELF listed.
it says NOT POSSIBLE.

i believe Him. don't you?

what was the qualification on His sheep not following another.....and the "other interpretation"?
why not just say what it is...why be cryptic.
that's what i don't get.
suggesting you have an alternative interpretation but not providing it doesn't do much.
that's what i mean.

He said we know His voice. that means Scripture, doesn't it?

nobody can read your mind, mike
just write it....whatever it is.

citing sources when used is helpful also.
k....ttyl.

Ive made several posts and gave position with scripture. The best ones
got no feedback. So why bother? And as far as i know ive answered any questions
asked me. But still you go on saying this kind of stuff.

By the way. Youve made the bold claim that youve seen it "all" And studied
every angle. And would not be interested.