Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
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understand your position Earl, but cannot have more than one conversation at a time, and as thus fasr you have not stated va person must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation, I have nothng that I would want to debate with you about this subject
God Bless
The abover is post 1191, you have nowhere to go so resort to writing lies about what I have written
Christ stated eternal life was knowing the Father was the only true God. But as your beliefs have frankly been shown to be potty on this subject, it is no surprise you now write what you do
I repeat, you do not even understand tha basics of the Christian faith, you have theologised yoursel to absurdity
And you think you know better/or will preach the true message better than nearly all the ministers in the trinitarian churches, and Christ, Paul, Peter, James oand John
And you accuse me of not being humble
Have you heard of Waltar Mitty?
God Bless
The abover is post 1191, you have nowhere to go so resort to writing lies about what I have written
Christ stated eternal life was knowing the Father was the only true God. But as your beliefs have frankly been shown to be potty on this subject, it is no surprise you now write what you do
I repeat, you do not even understand tha basics of the Christian faith, you have theologised yoursel to absurdity
And you think you know better/or will preach the true message better than nearly all the ministers in the trinitarian churches, and Christ, Paul, Peter, James oand John
And you accuse me of not being humble
Have you heard of Waltar Mitty?
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Are you mad?
Give me one plain verse of scripture from anywhere in the bible that plainly states a person must believe Christ is the one true God to inherit eternal life
I can give you many verses of scripture that state what I know to be the truth on this issue
All you give me is your theological extrapolations which contradicts the plain words of Christ and John
Give me one plain verse of scripture from anywhere in the bible that plainly states a person must believe Christ is the one true God to inherit eternal life
I can give you many verses of scripture that state what I know to be the truth on this issue
All you give me is your theological extrapolations which contradicts the plain words of Christ and John
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But lets recap as to what you actually believe
Nearly all the ministers in Trinitarian churches should not be in the pulpit as they fail to plainly state from it what to you is salvific belief and the consequences of getting it wrong
We do not accept the requirement of belief Christ himself laid down as to who a person must believe him to be but add to it
If you stand on the plain words of Christ as to the requirement of belief as to who he is unto salvation when he walked this earth you will go to hell
The core of the Christian faith upon which eternal life hinges is not plainly written anywhere in the bible
Well over 90% of members of Trinitarian churches do not understand the salvific belief required unto salvation
Nearly all the ministers in Trinitarian churches should not be in the pulpit as they fail to plainly state from it what to you is salvific belief and the consequences of getting it wrong
We do not accept the requirement of belief Christ himself laid down as to who a person must believe him to be but add to it
If you stand on the plain words of Christ as to the requirement of belief as to who he is unto salvation when he walked this earth you will go to hell
The core of the Christian faith upon which eternal life hinges is not plainly written anywhere in the bible
Well over 90% of members of Trinitarian churches do not understand the salvific belief required unto salvation
It must be nice to reframe an argument.
That's not what I said.
And that's not your proposition.
Stop reframing my(and the Bible's) argument.
It must be nice to frame your opponents argument in your own head, but you can't do it here - (ON THE INTERNET)
You can do it in your own head, but you can't do it here - (In This Public Space)
So sorry.
That's not what I said.
And that's not your proposition.
Stop reframing my(and the Bible's) argument.
It must be nice to frame your opponents argument in your own head, but you can't do it here - (ON THE INTERNET)
You can do it in your own head, but you can't do it here - (In This Public Space)
So sorry.
U
From my earlier post #942 ...
"Please tell me that you know what being a professed "Trinitarian" encompasses and means ? Because the entire essence of your argument(s) is predicated on this very word. You consistently mention the "Trinitarian churches and ministers" where you live ... how almost ALL don't preach what you see and read on this website. But it is a misnomer and a contradiction to claim that a Trinitarian does not believe in the three persons of the Triune Godhead ... the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as being co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial. If one does not believe this, they're simply not a "Trinitarian" .... period !"
This is a recording .....
Henceforth, you may use the term "many ministers" in your argument .... but not the term "many Trinitarian ministers". Otherwise, you are purposely misleading and fraudulent. But you won't desist. Because the very word that you require to give your argument even the smallest measure of "substance" is the same word you purposely and knowingly misuse and abuse. The sad irony in your posts is evident to most here Mark. Does anybody else reading this thread "hear me" ?
"Please tell me that you know what being a professed "Trinitarian" encompasses and means ? Because the entire essence of your argument(s) is predicated on this very word. You consistently mention the "Trinitarian churches and ministers" where you live ... how almost ALL don't preach what you see and read on this website. But it is a misnomer and a contradiction to claim that a Trinitarian does not believe in the three persons of the Triune Godhead ... the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as being co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial. If one does not believe this, they're simply not a "Trinitarian" .... period !"
This is a recording .....
Henceforth, you may use the term "many ministers" in your argument .... but not the term "many Trinitarian ministers". Otherwise, you are purposely misleading and fraudulent. But you won't desist. Because the very word that you require to give your argument even the smallest measure of "substance" is the same word you purposely and knowingly misuse and abuse. The sad irony in your posts is evident to most here Mark. Does anybody else reading this thread "hear me" ?
Trying to backtrack now are you, I thought you would.
So where's the plain sacripture then that states a person must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation?
Strange you believe you've given me thirty of them, Trinitarian ministers tell me there is no plain verse scripture in the entire Bible that states Christ is the one true God, and Elin has continually stressed the same on another threrad, so where's the scripture that contradicts the requirement of belief Christ himself laid down unto eternal life?
Still, as you believe nearly all of the Trinitarian ministers shouldn't be in the pulpiut what they say is of no importance is it to you
So where's the plain sacripture then that states a person must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation?
Strange you believe you've given me thirty of them, Trinitarian ministers tell me there is no plain verse scripture in the entire Bible that states Christ is the one true God, and Elin has continually stressed the same on another threrad, so where's the scripture that contradicts the requirement of belief Christ himself laid down unto eternal life?
Still, as you believe nearly all of the Trinitarian ministers shouldn't be in the pulpiut what they say is of no importance is it to you
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But lets see how sincere you really are
Would you publically state here and now that any minister who refuses to state plainly from the pulpit salvific belief and the consequences of getting it wrong, should not be a minister
IE
Any minister who refuses tp plainly state from the pulpit that if a person believes Jesus is the Son of God, but not the one true God Himself they cannot be saved with that belief, and are therefore condemned and will go to hell if they keep that belief. Will you say any minister who refuses to plainly state that from the pulpit should not be allowed to preach in a church
You see Rick, you and I both know that every minister is plainly obligated to preach clearly from the pulpit any salvific belief and the copnsequences of getting it wrong
Now let us see If you have Holy Spirit conviction on this, for if you do, you cannot compromise, deflect or fudge, when answering
The above is what I wrote, below is your response
Yes, I am saying that!
What will you do now, try and get yourself out of a hole?
Would a person led of the Spirit fudge as to the obligation of a minister to preach plainly what is to them salvific belief from the pulpit and the consequences of getting it wrong? Will you tell me now you meant something other than what you wrote?
Would you publically state here and now that any minister who refuses to state plainly from the pulpit salvific belief and the consequences of getting it wrong, should not be a minister
IE
Any minister who refuses tp plainly state from the pulpit that if a person believes Jesus is the Son of God, but not the one true God Himself they cannot be saved with that belief, and are therefore condemned and will go to hell if they keep that belief. Will you say any minister who refuses to plainly state that from the pulpit should not be allowed to preach in a church
You see Rick, you and I both know that every minister is plainly obligated to preach clearly from the pulpit any salvific belief and the copnsequences of getting it wrong
Now let us see If you have Holy Spirit conviction on this, for if you do, you cannot compromise, deflect or fudge, when answering
The above is what I wrote, below is your response
Yes, I am saying that!
What will you do now, try and get yourself out of a hole?
Would a person led of the Spirit fudge as to the obligation of a minister to preach plainly what is to them salvific belief from the pulpit and the consequences of getting it wrong? Will you tell me now you meant something other than what you wrote?
Mark54 said - "Trying to backtrack now are you, I thought you would.
So where's the plain sacripture then that states a person must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation?"
Man..........I've shown you at least 30.......AT LEAST 30 SCRIPTURES that signify Jesus IS the one true God in our debate.
Please go back and read, I am not going to restate them for you.
(Everyone else, please read mine and Mark54's debate from the start)
In debate terminology this is called "Grasping at straws".
But in the mildest form possible, please read the gospel of John 1:1-3; and John 1:13-17 :
John 1:1-3
King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:13-17
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
I think we might have got a hit there.......
So where's the plain sacripture then that states a person must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation?"
Man..........I've shown you at least 30.......AT LEAST 30 SCRIPTURES that signify Jesus IS the one true God in our debate.
Please go back and read, I am not going to restate them for you.
(Everyone else, please read mine and Mark54's debate from the start)
In debate terminology this is called "Grasping at straws".
But in the mildest form possible, please read the gospel of John 1:1-3; and John 1:13-17 :
John 1:1-3
King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:13-17
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
I think we might have got a hit there.......
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Grasping at straws? I think you are
You have given me no scripture whatsoever that states a person must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation
I used to discuss much on another website
'Is Jesus the one true God' but I don't discuss that anymore. For every scripture you gave me, I can give you a plainer one back
Yoiu have no plain scripture from anywhere in the bible that states Christ is the one true God Hismelf, so you are now desperately having to say what you do top try and back up byour extra biblical demands for salvation
You believe eternal life hinges on believing Christ is the one true God, yet you cannot give me EVEN ONE SCRIOPTURE TO BACK THAT UP, not one. How many scriptures would you like me to give you to support what I believe?
What you are really trying to do, is give your theological opinions of what you think, scripture means that simply ends up contradicting the plain word on the subject, for you have nothing else do you
It's all bluster now, that is all you are left with
You have given me no scripture whatsoever that states a person must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation
I used to discuss much on another website
'Is Jesus the one true God' but I don't discuss that anymore. For every scripture you gave me, I can give you a plainer one back
Yoiu have no plain scripture from anywhere in the bible that states Christ is the one true God Hismelf, so you are now desperately having to say what you do top try and back up byour extra biblical demands for salvation
You believe eternal life hinges on believing Christ is the one true God, yet you cannot give me EVEN ONE SCRIOPTURE TO BACK THAT UP, not one. How many scriptures would you like me to give you to support what I believe?
What you are really trying to do, is give your theological opinions of what you think, scripture means that simply ends up contradicting the plain word on the subject, for you have nothing else do you
It's all bluster now, that is all you are left with
You really have nowhere to go do you
For I repeat, you have not one scriopture from the entire bible to back up your extra biblical demands unto salvation, I do, you don't therefore all you cvan do is spout empty words
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent
John17:3
[SUP]40 [/SUP]For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.’
jOHN 6:40
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
jOHN3:16
If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. [SUP]1
1John4:15
[/SUP]I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life
1John5:13
Do you want more?
You people think yourselves so wise in your own eyes, that you condemn people for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth
I repeat, you do not even understand the basics of the Christian faith and you and others show spiritual immaturity the like of which I have never seen in the flesh. But you bluster on. For as you don't accept the words of Christ, Paul, or John on this subject you would hardly accept what I said either
You are led of the mind of man and the little grey cells Rick, for you refuse to accept the reuquirement of belief Christ himself laid down unto salvation
One day you will have to asnswer for it, and on that day there will be no one to impress
You are led of the mind of man, that is why you cannot accept the spiritual reality.
For I repeat, you have not one scriopture from the entire bible to back up your extra biblical demands unto salvation, I do, you don't therefore all you cvan do is spout empty words
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent
John17:3
[SUP]40 [/SUP]For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.’
jOHN 6:40
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
jOHN3:16
If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. [SUP]1
1John4:15
[/SUP]I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life
1John5:13
Do you want more?
You people think yourselves so wise in your own eyes, that you condemn people for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth
I repeat, you do not even understand the basics of the Christian faith and you and others show spiritual immaturity the like of which I have never seen in the flesh. But you bluster on. For as you don't accept the words of Christ, Paul, or John on this subject you would hardly accept what I said either
You are led of the mind of man and the little grey cells Rick, for you refuse to accept the reuquirement of belief Christ himself laid down unto salvation
One day you will have to asnswer for it, and on that day there will be no one to impress
You are led of the mind of man, that is why you cannot accept the spiritual reality.
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Mark, you don't even know what you believe.
Honestly, you are arguing with yourself.
I can't make an argument for you????
(One that is already going on inside your head)
Try to extrapolate the Word of God, and then try to make sense of it.
Honestly, .............
Are you posting from an insane asylum?
You don't need me because you are arguing with yourself.
Is Jesus the Son of God?
Yes or No.
Is Jesus therefore the incarnation of God?
Yes or No.
Is Jesus the only way to salvation?
Yes or No.
You say yes on some accounts, and no on others.
I have shown you at least 30 scriptures that prove Jesus is the incarnation of the Spirit of God the Father.
Yet you agree on some accounts and disagree on others.
I tell you, you argue with yourself, and therefore are mad.
Honestly, you are arguing with yourself.
I can't make an argument for you????
(One that is already going on inside your head)
Try to extrapolate the Word of God, and then try to make sense of it.
Honestly, .............
Are you posting from an insane asylum?
You don't need me because you are arguing with yourself.
Is Jesus the Son of God?
Yes or No.
Is Jesus therefore the incarnation of God?
Yes or No.
Is Jesus the only way to salvation?
Yes or No.
You say yes on some accounts, and no on others.
I have shown you at least 30 scriptures that prove Jesus is the incarnation of the Spirit of God the Father.
Yet you agree on some accounts and disagree on others.
I tell you, you argue with yourself, and therefore are mad.
Still got nothing I see.
Oh well, never mind. I didn't expect anymore.
And you can't give me one sripture to back up your argument only your theologiacal extrapolations which contradicts the plain words of Christ, John and Paul.
Still as you don't believe nearly all of the Trinitarian ministers should be in the pulpit, and you don't accedpt the words of Christ John or Paul who am I that you would believe me
You really are lost
As a minister said on another website
I will repeat
People come onto the internet, who think they know
Oh well, never mind. I didn't expect anymore.
And you can't give me one sripture to back up your argument only your theologiacal extrapolations which contradicts the plain words of Christ, John and Paul.
Still as you don't believe nearly all of the Trinitarian ministers should be in the pulpit, and you don't accedpt the words of Christ John or Paul who am I that you would believe me
You really are lost
As a minister said on another website
I will repeat
People come onto the internet, who think they know
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Lol
I've had help rick. I've been to Trinitarian churches for 30 years. Helped out at clubs, given my testimony, had friends socially from the church, no problems at all
Then I come on the internet, and hear people like you make your extra biblical demands with nothing to back them up with
I actually told two ministers what you and some others were saying on these websites, they both shook their heads and laughed
They were qualiified ministers who have their own churches
You see Rick, hardly any qualified ministers want to know of your extra biblical demands.
It is all pride, vanity and ego in the little grey cells. nothing more
I've had help rick. I've been to Trinitarian churches for 30 years. Helped out at clubs, given my testimony, had friends socially from the church, no problems at all
Then I come on the internet, and hear people like you make your extra biblical demands with nothing to back them up with
I actually told two ministers what you and some others were saying on these websites, they both shook their heads and laughed
They were qualiified ministers who have their own churches
You see Rick, hardly any qualified ministers want to know of your extra biblical demands.
It is all pride, vanity and ego in the little grey cells. nothing more