Can someone who believes limited atonement really, in their heart, love God ?

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GreenNnice

Guest
#1
#1
What does limited atonement mean to you?

How do you feel when someone tells you the blood of Christ frees only so many people in the end? And, God already knows who will be saved and who won't?


Those who believe limited atonement is different from the above, please explain.

I believe whosoeVer believes in God will be saved, whosoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, whoever chooses to be of God's elect (select few chosen PURELY based on their belief in Jesus Christ Lord God of their life) WILL BE SAVED :)


John 3:16
Romans 10:13

I believe the Holy Spirit works in believers' lives by FAITH.


I believe freewill of man is allowed by the sovereignty of God, but God makes major decisions sometimes, like The Flood,of Noah's time, that wiped our the odious behaving humans, incestually doing things despite our JUST God repeatedly giving signs to stop but growing grieved and causing worldwide disaster to befall man, only Noah's faith and obedience to God saved him andhis family.

Why do you ask this question in your title, green?


Because believing in a God who would make a human with knowing they would be going to hell without a CHOICE to see Him real through God causing them to believe, and, their dismissing Him , that is God not being just.
But,Scripture says God is just , in fact,God says He wants 'mercy over judgment.'

So, IF God is just how can He be unjust???

Elin of the nile?

Tribers of a select clan?

What have you of this ?

And, also, Scripture is clear, God is faithful, what's more, He cannot be unfaithful.


But, WHO can be unfaithful? YOU, ME. EVERY BODY :(

So how does it affect your just faith in God when you believe that he will only take some to heaven after creating all and some of those will be going to hell without any voice from them ?

Can you truly love God if you believe in limited atonement ? Can you?

This way of 'God's elect' warped interpretation seems to me to make those guilty of being false teachers on a very tenous thread with God? :(


Any queztions, class? :)
 
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1

1still_waters

Guest
#2
#2
I think anyone who isn't a universalist is a believer in limited atonement to an extent.
Not everyone gets their sins atoned for, considering not everyone believes.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#3
#3
GreenNnice - black


What does limited atonement mean to you?

--Going by how the words are naturally defined (certain ones are atoned for), several problems come to mind.

If only certain ones are atoned for, then:

1) All those 'whosoever shall believe' are negated.
2) God purposefully allowed others to come into the world for the sole purpose of enduring the second death.
3) No matter how much I desire to follow God, if I am doomed, I am still headed to death.
4) No matter what one does, if he is destined to Heaven, he will go. (What if Hitler was destined for Heaven?)
5) God would have to be the cause of one's sins so that they would be doomed to death.
6) It negates the Cross and in effect says that God did not love all, but only the elect. (although He says He loves)
7) Jesus did not die for the sins of the world. (although He said He did)
8) God would be unjust to judge the wickedness of the wicked, since He was the cause of it.
9) many more...........................

How do you feel when someone tells you the blood of Christ frees only so many people in the end?

1)That they are basically saying that God is a liar when He sent the Word to be the atoning sacrifice for those who would come to Him in faith.
2) That we are not responsible for our own action, but that, God is solely responsible for wickedness.
3) That we should not walk the straight and narrow path because we will end up where we were destined to be in the first place.

And, God already knows who will be saved and who won't?

--He knows the beginning from the end. But, He is not cause of one committing sin. Although, He can and does use people wicked or good to do His will, but He already knew what they would have done. He just uses that action He foreknew they would do for His purpose.


Those who believe limited atonement is different from the above, please explain.

I believe whosoeVer believes in God will be saved, whosoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, whoever chooses to be of God's elect (select few chosen PURELY based on their belief in Jesus Christ Lord God of their life) WILL BE SAVED :)

---God's elect is this : you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you. God, when He cut the Jews from the vine, chose those in Christ to be His people (I have called those who were not a people my people). We, the Christians, are God's chosen people (elect).

John 3:16
Romans 10:13

I believe the Holy Spirit works in believers' lives by FAITH.


I believe freewill of man is allowed by the sovereignty of God, but God makes major decisions sometimes, like The Flood,of Noah's time, that wiped our the odious behaving humans, incestually doing things despite our JUST God repeatedly giving signs to stop but growing grieved and causing worldwide disaster to befall man, only Noah's faith and obedience to God saved him andhis family.

Why do you ask this question in your title, green?


Because believing in a God who would make a human with knowing they would be going to hell without a CHOICE to see Him real through God causing them to believe, and, their dismissing Him , that is God not being just.

---And would make God unfair in His judgment of the wicked.

But,Scripture says God is just , in fact,God says He wants 'mercy over judgment.'

So, IF God is just how can He be unjust???

Elin of the nile?

Tribers of a select clan?

What have you of this ?

And, also, Scripture is clear, God is faithful, what's more, He cannot be unfaithful.


But, WHO can be unfaithful? YOU, ME. EVERY BODY :(

So how does it affect your just faith in God when you believe that he will only take some to heaven after creating all and some of those will be going to hell without any voice from them ?

Can you truly love God if you believe in limited atonement ? Can you?

This way of 'God's elect' warped interpretation seems to me to make those guilty of being false teachers on a very tenous thread with God? :(


Any queztions, class? :)
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#4
#4
Some things to consider when you read
1 Timothy 2
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

------

What is the scope of all in the Bible?

Matthew 10
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


ALL men? So even Christians are going to hate each other?
------
Mark 11
[SUP]32 [/SUP]But if we shall say, Of men; they feared the people: for all men counted John, that he was a prophet indeed.

All men considered John a prophet? ALL?



------

John 12
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Do you really think every person on this earth is going to come to Jesus and be saved?

---

Before you dismiss limited atonement because of certain verses that say ALL, take a look at other verses that say ALL, and see if there is an overall Biblical contextual scope to the understanding of ALL.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#5
#5
GreenNnice said:
What does limited atonement mean to you?

How do you feel when someone tells you the blood of Christ frees only so many people in the end? And, God already knows who will be saved and who won't?


:)
Click to expand...
How do you feel when someone tells you the blood of Christ frees only so many people in the end?
Click to expand...
I'd say well yeah...Most Christians who aren't universalists think this way.
I'd say glad to see you're within the realm of orthodoxy.

And, God already knows who will be saved and who won't?
Click to expand...
He is all knowing.
I'd be concerned if he didn't know.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#6
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#6
HEY! i figured out how to freeze the Bee-ber!
click rep on Still.
the bee stops!:D

he-e-e-e-e-y



i want a beethingee
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#7
#7
zone said:
HEY! i figured out how to freeze the Bee-ber!
click rep on Still.
the bee stops!:D

he-e-e-e-e-y



i want a beethingee
Click to expand...
A Hinn-bee? :p
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#9
#9
zone said:
oh Still.....serious?
can you make me one?
yes please!:D

where's the moving people-bee store?
i wanna Hinn-bee!
Click to expand...
Due to the drama it cause..i'm not making a Hinn-bee. :p
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#10
#10
GreenNnice said:
What does limited atonement mean to you?


Limited atonement to me means ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. , so, that said, ALL get a chance to be atoned. God knows we ALL sin ! His mercy is great ! His grace abounds over our sin, God forbid you read this as a license to sin :( :) Some will choose God when He chooses them.


Quickly, ohzone, take your bieber out of here! Better yet, NEVER comment stupidly in one of my threads again. Get it? Better. I see no need forvyou to comment, you do this all too often . bleh. :(
If you can say something of relation to the thread, fabulous, otherwise, when I'm in a serious mood doing a thread, AND THIS IS SERIOUS!!! :) , love, keep on topic, thx for your support .

Where was I? Oh, k,
For our lives, we have a choice to be atoned for or not, there is limit to God's grace, as licentious develops IF grace is not understooD through faith; God causes us to believe but there is an 'effect,' and for every action there is a reaction. (Yes, doing nothing is a reaction.)
.
I agree, stilledwater, only those who believe in Christ, that believe His blood covers ALL their sins, will be atoned (eternal life with Him); this is with above said faith , which doesn't need to be worried about because Eph 2:8 is clear. This, too, explains why God's love for us is conditional. God hates sin, but loves the sinner.

God's love is for ALL, on one condition: believe in Him.
God says we were enemies of Him before He sent His Son to the world, that whosoever believes in Him God will.love.
He can't love you if you are in hell. :( His shed blood atones for all your sins, but IF you die without Him loved with all your heart, mind, soul, then you die denying Him . IF you do good deeds galore but never accepted Christ in your heart, never accepted His atoning blood to cleanse your not atoned. Yes, that means 'limited atonement.' Like the Pharisees, who God told were 'evildoers,' didn't he, when they said yhey cast out demons etc. God said, 'Away from me, evildoer.' This is FAITHLESS BELIEF in God, like the Demons, they believe in God too, but.deny Him and, thus, they're not atoned, obviously.
USE your talents, give to God's things put in front of you as the Holy Spirit works through you or you, too, limit His atonement.

It's ALL about the Spirit working through you, and, IF you think that we can not have faith and have the HOLY Spirit still.work through us you are sadly mistaken.

IF you think the Holy Spirit does just bless you without your working, that is, planting and watering, as 1 Cor. 3 says, then YOUR FAITH will stagnate. YOU NEED TO BE DOING THINGS--LABOR, WORK-- or your sovereign God will NOT like what you are FREELY doing.

God's atonement is limited, but it's limited to ALL who CHOOSE Him (as cee said) , of course, God knows ALL, He knows who will believe and not believe , but what is being said, stilled water, is that Christ's blood FREES ALL from sin and telling some that they are not all going to be saved is NOT what God says. THAT is a lie straight from Satan's mouth. God is patient, for ALL to answer His call, "that none should perish.' :)
All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved by His atonement.

His atonement is NOT meant to ne limited but, few will choose to fully put their faith in Him. That, of course, leads to limited salvation, but, again God wants salvation UNlimited . But, places like revelation say that a 1/3 of the earth will be WIPED OUT so we know from John's prophecy that God's going to quickly eliminate 'chaff.' That right there proves limited atonement, those not having believed in Christ's finished work WILL BE FINISHED . :(
Click to expand...
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#11
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#11
1still_waters said:
Some things to consider when you read
1 Timothy 2
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

------

What is the scope of all in the Bible?

Matthew 10
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


ALL men? So even Christians are going to hate each other?
------
Mark 11
[SUP]32 [/SUP]But if we shall say, Of men; they feared the people: for all men counted John, that he was a prophet indeed.

All men considered John a prophet? ALL?



------

John 12
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Do you really think every person on this earth is going to come to Jesus and be saved?

---

Before you dismiss limited atonement because of certain verses that say ALL, take a look at other verses that say ALL, and see if there is an overall Biblical contextual scope to the understanding of ALL.
Click to expand...
I know this is quoted from a deleted member, but here's a prime example of eisegesis.

Ppl quote 6:37, and then go next to John 12:32, trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. :rolleyes:
 
Johnny_B

Johnny_B

Senior Member
#12
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#12
GreenNnice said:
What does limited atonement mean to you?

How do you feel when someone tells you the blood of Christ frees only so many people in the end? And, God already knows who will be saved and who won't?


Those who believe limited atonement is different from the above, please explain.

I believe whosoeVer believes in God will be saved, whosoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, whoever chooses to be of God's elect (select few chosen PURELY based on their belief in Jesus Christ Lord God of their life) WILL BE SAVED :)


John 3:16
Romans 10:13

I believe the Holy Spirit works in believers' lives by FAITH.


I believe freewill of man is allowed by the sovereignty of God, but God makes major decisions sometimes, like The Flood,of Noah's time, that wiped our the odious behaving humans, incestually doing things despite our JUST God repeatedly giving signs to stop but growing grieved and causing worldwide disaster to befall man, only Noah's faith and obedience to God saved him andhis family.

Why do you ask this question in your title, green?


Because believing in a God who would make a human with knowing they would be going to hell without a CHOICE to see Him real through God causing them to believe, and, their dismissing Him , that is God not being just.
But,Scripture says God is just , in fact,God says He wants 'mercy over judgment.'

So, IF God is just how can He be unjust???

Elin of the nile?

Tribers of a select clan?

What have you of this ?

And, also, Scripture is clear, God is faithful, what's more, He cannot be unfaithful.


But, WHO can be unfaithful? YOU, ME. EVERY BODY :(

So how does it affect your just faith in God when you believe that he will only take some to heaven after creating all and some of those will be going to hell without any voice from them ?

Can you truly love God if you believe in limited atonement ? Can you?

This way of 'God's elect' warped interpretation seems to me to make those guilty of being false teachers on a very tenous thread with God? :(


Any queztions, class? :)
Click to expand...
I find it interesting that you ask this question, when you believe in limited atonement, because you limit the atonemnt to man believing or not believing which limits God's power in the atonement. What I find really interesting is the Scripture you base unlimited atonemnt on is limited, John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”

It is limited to those that believe, one other thing, whoever does not mean anyone in the world, it is only those that believe.

Acts 2:39 “For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

Salvation is for everyone that the Lord calls to Himself.

My point is everyone believes in a limited atonement so you can answer the question you are asking, do you love the Lord?
 
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