Loss of Salvation What the Bible says about it!

[Elder1]

It seems odd too me that any serious student of the Bible would think that someone could never forfeit their salvation once they truly possessed it. This doctrine is so plain in the New Testament that if a person who did not know the N.T. were asked to read the N.T. through 1 time, without any other input. (I.e. Bible teachers, commentaries, college courses, etc) and then ask him if the N.T. taught that a person could forfeit his salvation; he would answer with a resounding YES!
This study is intended to state, and prove beyond all doubt, that you can indeed forfeit your salvation. If you are a closed minded individual that has your mind made up, and you don’t want to be confused with the facts, than this study is not for you. If however you are an intellectually honest person; who wants to know the truth, and conform your doctrine and life too the truth; then read on.


Lets start with the book of Heb.
In Heb 6:4-8 we read:
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. NKJV
Now lets examine this verse a little closer. Who was the writer referring too in this verse? Was it people who were not true Christians? Or people who are true Christians? Let’s take a close look at the verse and see.
This verse refers to “those who were once enlightened.” Now what does the word enlightened mean? It means that someone's understanding has been opened by the Holy Spirit so that they may be able too comprehend the things of God.

 

[Elder1]

What does it mean too have “tasted the heavenly gift, and to have become partaker’s of the Holy Spirit? Two interpretations exist that I know of:
1. The heavenly gift is salvation, and becoming a partaker of the Holy Spirit is receiving the Holy Spirit when someone receives Christ.
2. The heavenly gift is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and partakers of the Holy Spirit are those who walk in the Power and Gifts of the Holy Spirit. (I.e. they speak in tongues, prophecy, interpret tongues, heal the sick, etc.)
What does it mean to “have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come”? This means that the individual has received and understood the word of God and has experienced the miraculous powers of God. (I.e. healing, miracle's, etc)

These things being so; we MUST conclude that the author is referring too a TRUE believer! And what is it that the author says about this true believer? That it is impossible for them too be saved again if they fall away. (If they fall away it is impossible to renew them again to repentance.)

Now some would say that this is not a reference to an actual believer that has indeed apostatized in the Corinthian church. By stating this they are implying that apostasy is something that a true Christian cannot do. They try to prove there point with Heb 6:9 which states: “9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.” (NKJV.) They take this passage and state that because the author was confident of better things concerning them that he was not referring too an actual apostasy. They are correct in that the author was not referring too an actual apostasy at that time. But they are wrong too conclude that it is an impossibility for them too do so. Consider this; if it were imposable for them too lose their salvation, than why does the author state that it is impossible to renew an apostate believer too repentance? Why doesn't he say that “it doesn't matter what you do; all you have too fear is losing some rewards when you get too heaven. But you don't have to worry about getting too heaven, that's a done deal that has been sealed by the Holy Spirit; and is a contract that will not be broken by God, and cannot be broken by you.”? He dose not say this, because it is not true! Instead the author is WARNING them, so that they won’t fall away. And why would the author warn them about something that they could not do? If it were impossible for them too do it; it would be meaningless to warn them of it! Wouldn't it have been better for the author too have given them some encouraging word of comfort, rather than to terrify them with such a severe warning?
Therefore we conclude that this passage is a warning too true believers that they are not too fall away, under the penalty of losing forever their salvation.
Lets look at commentary on this verse. The commentary “Barns Note’s” states:
Hebrews 6:4
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [For it is impossible] It is needless to say that the passage here (Heb 6:4-6), has given occasion to much controversy, and that the opinions of commentators and of the Christian world are yet greatly divided in regard to its meaning. On the one hand, it is held that the passage is not intended to describe those who are true Christians, but only those who have been awakened and enlightened, and who then fall back; and on the other it is maintained that it refers to those who are true Christians, and who then apostatize. The contending parties have been Calvinists and Armenians; each party, in general, interpreting it according to the views which are held on the question about falling from grace. I shall endeavor, as well as I may be able, to state the true meaning of the passage by an examination of the words and phrases in detail, observing here, in general, that it seems to me that it refers to true Christians; that the object is to keep them from apostasy, and that it teaches that if they should apostatize, it would be impossible to renew them again or to save them. That it refers to true Christians will be apparent from these considerations.
(1) Such is the sense which would strike the great mass of readers. Unless there were some theory to defend, the great body of readers of the New Testament would consider the expression used here as describing true Christians.
(2) The connection demands such an interpretation. The apostle was addressing Christians. He was endeavoring to keep them from apostasy. The object was not to keep those who were awakened and enlightened from apostasy, but it was to preserve those who were already in the Church of Christ, from going back to perdition. The kind of exhortation appropriate to those who were awakened and convicted, but who were not truly converted, would be "to become converted;" not to warn them of the danger of "falling away." Besides, the apostle would not have said of such persons that they COULD NOT be converted and saved. But of sincere Christians it might be said with the utmost propriety, that they COULD NOT be renewed again and be saved if they should fall away-because they rejected the only plan of salvation after they had tried it, and renounced the only scheme of redemption after they had tasted its benefits. If that plan could not save them, what could? If they neglected that, by what other means could they be brought to God?
(3) This interpretation accords, as I suppose, with the exact meaning of the phrases which the apostle uses. An examination of those phrases will show that he refers to those who are sincere believers. The phrase "it is impossible" obviously and properly denotes absolute impossibility. It has been contended, by Storr and others, that it denotes only great difficulty. But the meaning which would at first strike all readers would be that "the thing could not be done;" that it was not merely very difficult, but absolutely impracticable. The word-adunaton (NT:102)-occurs only in the New Testament in the following places, in all which it denotes that the thing could not be done; Matt 19:26; Mark 10:27, "With men this is impossible;" that is, men could not save one who was rich, implying that the thing was wholly beyond human power. Luke 18:27, "The things which are impossible with men are possible with God"-referring to the same case; Acts 14:8, "A man of Lystra, impotent in his feet;" that is, who was wholly "unable" to walk; Rom 8:3, "For what the law could not do;" what was absolutely "impossible" for the Law to accomplish; that is, to save people; Heb 6:18, "In which it was impossible for God to lie;" Heb 10:4, "It is not possible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take away sin;" and Heb 11:6, "Without faith it is impossible to please God;" in all of these instances denoting absolute impossibility. These passages show that it is not merely a great difficulty to which the apostle refers, but that he meant to say that the thing was wholly impracticable; that it could not be done. And if this is the meaning, then it proves that if those referred to should fall away, they could never be renewed. Their case was hopeless, and they must perish: that is, if a true Christian should apostatize, or fall from grace, "he never could be renewed again," and could not be saved. Paul did not teach that he might fall away and be renewed again as often as he pleased. He had other views of the grace of God than this; and he meant to teach, that if a man should once cast off true religion, his case was hopeless, and he must perish; and by this solemn consideration-the only one that would be effectual in such a case-he meant to guard them against the danger of apostasy. [For those who were once enlightened] The phrase "to be enlightened" is one that is often used in the Scriptures, and may be applied either to one whose understanding has been enlightened to discern his duty, though he is not converted (compare the note on John 1:9); or more commonly to one who is truly converted; see the note on Eph 1:18. It does not of necessity refer to true Christians, though it cannot be denied that it more obviously suggests the idea that the heart is truly changed, and that it is more commonly used in that sense; compare Ps 19:8. Light, in the Scriptures, is the emblem of knowledge, holiness, and happiness, and there is no impropriety here in understanding it in accordance with the more decisive phrases which follow, as referring to true Christians. [And have tasted] To "taste" of a thing means, according to the usage in the Scriptures, to "experience," or to "understand" it. The expression is derived from the fact that the "taste" is one of the means by which we ascertain the nature or quality of an object; compare Matt 16:28; John 8:51; Heb 2:9. The proper idea here is, that they had "experienced" the heavenly gift, or had learned its nature. [The heavenly gift] The gift from heaven, or which pertains to heaven; compare the note on John 4:10. The expression properly means some favor or gift which has descended from heaven, and may refer to any of the benefits which God has conferred on man in the work of redemption. It might include the plan of salvation; the forgiveness of sins; the enlightening, renewing, and sanctifying influences of the Holy Spirit, or any one of the graces which that Spirit imparts. The use of the article, however-"the heavenly gift," limits it to something special, as being conferred directly from heaven, and the connection would seem to demand that we understand it of some "special" favor which could be conferred only on the children of God. It is an expression which "may" be applied to sincere Christians; it is at least doubtful whether it can with propriety be applied to any other.[And were made partakers of the Holy Ghost] Partakers of the influences of the Holy Spirit-for it is only in this sense that we can partake of the Holy Spirit. We "partake" of food when we share it with others; we "partake" of pleasure when we enjoy it with others; we "partake" of spoils in war when they are divided between us and others. So we partake of the influences of the Holy Spirit when we share these influences conferred on his people. This is not language which can properly be applied to anyone but a true Christian; and though it is true that an un-pardoned sinner may be enlightened and awakened by the Holy Spirit, yet the language used here is not such as would be likely to be employed to describe his state. It is too clearly expressive of those influences which renew and sanctify the soul. It is as elevated language as can be used to describe the joy of the Christian, and is undoubtedly used in that sense here. If it is not, it would be difficult to find any language that would properly express the condition of a renewed heart. Grotius, Bloomfield, and some others, understood this of the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit... which evidently pertains to the mass of those whom the apostle addressed.
Heb 6:5
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [And have tasted the good word of God] That is, either the doctrines which he teaches, and which are good, or pleasant to the soul; or the Word of God which is connected with good, that is, which promises good. The former seems to me to be the correct meaning-that the Word of God, or the truth which he taught, was itself a good. It was what the soul desired, and in which it found comfort and peace; compare Ps 119:103; 141:6. The meaning here is, that they had experienced the excellency of the truth of God; they had seen and enjoyed its beauty. This is language that cannot be applied to an impenitent sinner. He has no RELISH for the truth of God; sees no beauty in it; derives no comfort from it. It is only the true Christian who has pleasure in its contemplation, and who can be said to "taste" and enjoy it. This language describes a state of mind of which every sincere Christian is conscious. It is that of pleasure in the Word of God. He loves the Bible; he loves the truth of God that is preached. He sees an exquisite beauty in that truth. It is not merely in its poetry; in its sublimity; in its argument; but he has now a "taste" or "relish" for the truth itself, which he had not before his conversion. Then he might have admired the Bible for its beauty of language or for its poetry; he might have been interested in preaching for its eloquence or power of argument; but now his love is for "the truth;" compare Ps 19:10. There is no book that he so much delights in as the Bible; and no pleasure is so pure as what he has in contemplating the truth; compare Josh 21:45; 23:15. [And the powers of the world to come] Or of the "coming age." "The age to come" was a phrase in common use among the Hebrews, to denote the future dispensation, the times of the Messiah. The same idea was expressed by the phrases " the last times," "the end of the world," etc. which are of so frequent occurrence in the Scriptures. They all denoted an age which was to succeed the old dispensation; the time of the Messiah; or the period in which the affairs of the world would be wound up; see the notes on Isa 2:2. Here it evidently refers to that period, and the meaning is, that they had participated in the special blessings to be expected in that dispensation-to wit, in the clear views of the way of salvation, and the influences of the Holy Spirit on the soul. The word "powers" here implies that in that time there would be some extraordinary manifestation of the "power" of God. An unusual energy would be put forth to save people, particularly as evinced by the agency of the Holy Spirit on the heart. Of this "power" the apostle here says they of whom he spake had partaken. They had been brought under the awakening and renewing energy which God put forth under the Messiah. in saving the soul. They had experienced the promised blessings of the new and last dispensation; and the language here is such as appropriately describes Christians, and as indeed can be applicable to no other. It may be remarked respecting the various expressions used here (Heb 6:4-5),

 

[Elder1]

(1) That they are such as properly denote a renewed state. They obviously describe the condition of a Christian; and though it may be not certain that any one of them if taken by itself would prove that the person to whom it was applied was truly converted, yet taken together it is clear that they are designed to describe such a state. If they are not, it would be difficult to find any language that would be properly descriptive of the character of a sincere Christian. I regard the description here, therefore, as what is clearly designed to denote the state of those who were born again, and were the true children of God; and it seems plain to me that no other interpretation would have ever been thought of if this view had not seemed to conflict with the doctrine of the "perseverance of the saints."
(2) There is a regular gradation here from the first elements of piety in the soul to its highest developements; and, whether the apostle so designed it or not, the language describes the successive steps by which a true Christian advances to the highest stage of Christian experience. The mind is:
(a) enlightened; then
(b) Tastes the gift of heaven, or has some experience of it; then
(c) It is made to partake of the influences of the Holy Spirit; then
(d) There is experience of the excellence and loveliness of the Word of God; and
(e) Finally there is a participation of the full "powers" of the new dispensation; of the extraordinary energy which God puts forth in the gospel to sanctify and save the soul.
Heb 6:6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [If they shall fall away] literally, "and having fallen away." "There is no IF in the Greek in this place-"having fallen away." Dr. John P. Wilson. It is not an affirmation that any had actually fallen away, or that in fact they would do it; but the statement is, that "on the supposition that they had fallen away," it would be impossible to renew them again. It is the same as supposing a case which in fact might never occur: as if we should say, "had a man fallen down a precipice it would be impossible to save him,"(yet we do know that from time to time, men do fall from “precipice’s”) or "had the child fallen into the stream he would certainly have been drowned." (From time to time, kids do fall into streams, and drown.) But though this literally means, "having fallen away," yet the sense in the connection in which it stands is not improperly expressed by our common translation. The Syriac has given a version which is remarkable, not as a correct translation, but as showing what was the prevailing belief in the time in which it was made, (probably the first or second century), in regard to the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. "For it is impossible that they who have been baptized, and who have tasted the gift which is from heaven, and have received the spirit of holiness, and have tasted the good word of God, and the power of the coming age, should again sin, so that they should be renewed again to repentance, and again crucify the Son of God and put him to ignominy." The word rendered "fall away" means properly "to fall near by anyone;" "to fall in with or meet;" and thus to fall aside from, to swerve or deviate from; and here means undoubtedly to "apostatize from," and implies an entire renunciation of Christianity, or a going back to a state of Judaism, paganism, or sin. The Greek word does not occur anywhere else in the New Testament.... [To renew them again] Implying that they had been before renewed, or had been true Christians. The word "again"-palin (NT:3825)-supposes this; and this passage, therefore, confirms the considerations suggested above, showing that they were true Christians who were referred to. They had once repented, but it would be impossible to bring them to this state "again." This declaration of course is to be read in connection with the first clause of Heb 6:4, "It is impossible to renew again to repentance those who once were true Christians should they fall away." I know of no declaration more unambiguous than this. It is a positive declaration. It is not that it would be very difficult to do it; or that it would be impossible for man to do it, though it might be done by God; it is an unequivocal and absolute declaration that it would be utterly impracticable that it should be done by anyone, or by any means; and this, I have no doubt, is the meaning of the apostle. Should a Christian fall from grace, he "must perish." HE NEVER COULD BE SAVED. The reason of this the apostle immediately adds.

 

[Elder1]

[Seeing] This word is not in the Greek, though the sense is expressed. The Greek literally is, "having again crucified to themselves the Son of God." The "reason" here given is, that the crime would be so great, and they would so effectually exclude themselves from the only plan of salvation, that they could not be saved. There is but one way of salvation. Having tried that, and then renounced it, how could they then be saved? The case is like that of a drowning man. If there was but one plank by which he could be saved, and he should get on that and then push it away and plunge into the deep, he must die. Or if there was but one rope by which the shore could be reached from a wreck, and he should cut that and cast it off, he must die. Or if a man were sick, and there was but one kind of medicine that could possibly restore him, and he should deliberately dash that away, he must die. So in religion. There is "but one" way of salvation. If a man deliberately rejects that, he must perish. [They crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh] Our translators have rendered this as if the Greek were-anastaurountas (NT:388) palin (NT:3825)-"crucify again," and so it is rendered by Chrysostom, by Tyndale, Coverdale, Beza, Luther, and others. But this is not properly the meaning of the Greek. The word anastaurooo (NT:388)-is an "intensive" word, and is employed instead of the usual word "to crucify" only to denote "emphasis." It means that such an act of apostasy would be equivalent to crucifying him in an aggravated manner. Of course this is to be taken "figuratively." It could not be literally true that they would thus crucify the Redeemer. The meaning is, that their conduct would be "as if" they had crucified him; it would bear a strong resemblance to the act by which the Lord Jesus was publicly rejected and condemned to die. The act of crucifying the Son of God was the great crime which outpeers any other deed of human guilt. Yet the apostle says that should they who had been true Christians fall away and reject him, they would be guilty of a similar crime. It would be a public and solemn act of rejecting him. It would show that if they had been there they would have joined in the cry "crucify him, crucify him." The "intensity and aggravation" of such a crime perhaps the apostle meant to indicate by the intensive or emphatic ana (NT:303) in the word anastaurountas (NT:388). Such an act would render their salvation impossible, because:
(1) The crime would be aggravated beyond that of those who rejected him and put him to death-for they knew not what they did; and
(2) Because it would be a rejection of the only possible plan of salvation after they had had experience of its power and known its efficacy.
The phrase "to themselves," Tyndale renders, "as concerning themselves." Others, "as far as in them lies," or as far as they have ability to do. Others, "to their own heart." Probably Grotius has suggested the true sense. "They do it for themselves. They make the act their own. It is as if they did it themselves; and they are to he regarded as having done the deed." So we make the act of another our own when we authorize it beforehand, or approve of it after it is done. [And put him to an open shame] Make him a public example; or hold him up as worthy of death on the cross; see the same word explained in the notes on Matt 1:19, in the phrase "make her a public example." The word occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. Their apostasy and rejection of the Savior would be like holding him up publicly as deserving the infamy and ignominy of the cross. A great part of the crime attending the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus, consisted in exhibiting him to the passing multitude as deserving the death of a malefactor. Of that sin they would partake who should reject him, for they would thus show that they regarded his religion as an imposture, and would in a public manner hold him up as worthy only of rejection and contempt. Such, it seems to me, is the fair meaning of this much-disputed passage-a passage which would never have given so much perplexity if it had not been supposed that the obvious interpretation would interfere with some prevalent articles of theology. The passage "proves" that if true Christians should apostatize, it would be impossible to renew and save them.
(From Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1997 by Biblesoft)
Heb 6:4-8
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Some had gone on to maturity; others had fall(en) away. These are now mentioned to enforce the warning that has just been given-to go on to maturity. Properly, this passage should be interpreted not from within a theological system but from within its own context. First principles learned is the subject. Now the writer speaks of those who, having received such instruction in first principles, had turned away from Christ. They were now enemies of Christ and of the salvation that is in him.
It was the writer's purpose to portray extreme peril so that those tempted to apostasy might have the strongest possible example. The issues were plain: Christ or no Christ, saving faith or unbelief, suffering his reproach or joining his betrayers and murderers. The words used are strong terms. Hapax photisthentas means once for all enlightened. Tasted is translated come to know in newer lexicons. Partakers, from Greek metochous, means real sharers (Alf, IV, 109). All these terms indicate a great deal of knowledge and participation on the part of those once . . . enlightened. Even miracles were familiar to those now shown to be hostile to Christ.
A somewhat different point of view is possible regarding the passage. It may be rendered, if they fall away (cf. the RSV, if they commit apostasy). In that case the writer is not thinking of specific instances of apostasy, least of all among the readers (v. 9), but is warning that refusal to progress in the Christian life leads logically to retrogression, of which the ultimate end may be apostasy. If one should go to the extreme of falling away after tasting the heavenly gift, his falling away cannot be classed with ordinary sin, for it involves a repudiation of God's provision in Christ (crucifying the Son of God afresh). Therefore, for him, the hope of renewal vanishes, for God does not have some other cure for sin when Calvary is rejected.
In choosing to reject Christ, the apostates most resembled a field that yields only thorns and thistles, though the rains falling upon it and the farmers tilling were intended to produce beneficial herbs. There can be no mistaking the direct and strong warning to readers tempted to turn away from Christ. Indeed, what was true for these first century believers is still true for believers today.
(from The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1962 by Moody Press)
Now that we have clearly seen what this passage means, lets go on to the next passage. (There are about 38 total that either directly state, or imply that a true believer can forfeit his salvation.)

 

[Elder1]

Heb 10:26-31
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people." 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
NKJV
This passage is straightforward. Let’s see what the commentary says.
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth] If after we are converted and become true Christians we should apostatize, it would be impossible to be recovered again, for there would be no other sacrifice for sin; no way by which we could be saved. This passage, however, like Heb 6:4-6, has given rise to much difference of opinion. But that the above is the correct interpretation, seems evident to me from the following considerations:
(1) It is the natural and obvious interpretation, such as would occur probably to ninety-nine readers in a hundred, if there were no theory to support, and no fear that it would conflict with some other doctrine.
(2) It accords with the scope of the Epistle, which is, to keep those whom the apostle addressed from returning again to the Jewish religion, under the trials to which they were subjected.
(3) It is in accordance with the fair meaning of the language-the words "after that we have received the knowledge of the truth," referring more naturally to true conversion than to any other state of mind.
(4) The sentiment would not be correct if it referred to any but real Christians. It would not be true that one who had been somewhat enlightened, and who then sinned "willfully," must look on fearfully to the judgment without a possibility of being saved. There are multitudes of cases where such persons are saved. They "willfully" resist the Holy Spirit; they strive against him; they for a long time refuse to yield, but they are brought again to reflection, and are led to give their hearts to God.
(5) It is true, and always will be true, that if a sincere Christian should apostatize he could never be converted again; see the notes on Heb 6:4-6. The reasons are obvious. He would have tried the only plan of salvation, and it would have failed. He would have embraced the Savior, and there would not have been efficacy enough in his blood to keep him, and there would be no more powerful Savior and no more efficacious blood of atonement. He would have renounced the Holy Spirit, and would have shown that his influences were not effectual to keep him, and there would be no other agent of greater power to renew and save him after he had apostatized. For these reasons it seems clear to me that this passage refers to true Christians, and that the doctrine here taught is, that if such an one should apostatize, he must look forward only to the terrors of the judgment, and to final condemnation.
Whether this in fact ever occurs, is quite another question.
(It doe’s occur, of that we can be certain! Paul mentions one apostate in 2 Tim 4:10 “for Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world,” This passage implies an apostate because Demos would not have left Paul unless he was also forsaking Christ. For the world must be crucified to Christ; or Christ is crucified to the world.
And the rapture cannot happen until the great apostasy occurs. 2 Thess 2:1-3
1.“Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,” (note: “falling away” is referring too a mass amount of true believers “falling away” from their commitment too Christ.)

And lastly; there would not be so many warnings against apostasy if it were not possible for true believers to apostatize.)
The word rendered "willfully"-hekousioos (NT:1596)-occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, except in 1 Peter 5:2, where it is rendered "willingly"-"taking the oversight thereof (of the church) not by constraint, but willingly." It properly means, "willingly, voluntarily, of our own accord," and applies to cases where no constraint is used. It is not to be construed here strictly, or metaphysically, for all sin is voluntary, or is committed willingly, but must refer to a deliberate act, where a man MEANS to abandon his religion, and to turn away from God. If it were to be taken with

 

[Elder1]

metaphysical exactness, it would demonstrate that every Christian who ever does anything wrong, no matter how small, would be lost. But this cannot, from the nature of the case, be the meaning. The apostle well knew that Christians do commit such sins (see the notes on Rom 7), and his object here is not to set forth the danger of such sins, but to guard Christians against apostasy from their religion. In the Jewish Law, as is indeed the case everywhere, a distinction is made between sins of oversight, inadvertence, or ignorance, (Lev 4:2,13,22,27; 5:15; Num 15:24,27-29; compare Acts 3:17; 17:30), and sins of presumption; sins that are deliberately and intentionally committed; see Ex 21:14; Num 15:30; Deut 17:12; Ps 19:13. The apostle here has reference, evidently, to such a distinction, and means to speak of a decided and deliberate purpose to break away from the restraints and obligations of the Christian religion. [There remaineth no more sacrifice for sins] Should a man do this, there is no sacrifice for sins which could save him. He would have rejected deliberately the only atonement made for sin, and there will be no other made. It is as if a man should reject the only medicine that could heal him, or push away the only boat that could save him when shipwrecked; see notes Heb 6:6. The sacrifice made for sin by the Redeemer is never to be repeated, and if that is deliberately rejected, the soul must be lost.
(From Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1997 by Biblesoft)

 

[Elder1]

Well, on too the next passage.
Rom 11:11-22
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. (NKJV)
Here the apostle Paul uses symbolism too make a point. This is the same type of symbolism used by Christ in John 15. (We shall examine this passage when we get through with this one.)
Here Paul is saying that the Jews, who had rejected their Messiah, were now cut off from God, and gentiles had now taken the place that they once had. He is here warning the Gentiles that the Israelites had been cut off because of their rejection of Jesus. He tells them that if at any time they should turn from Christ, casting Him off so as too no longer serve Him; casting off their faith in Him as their Lord and Savior. Then they will also be cut off from Christ. And thus forfeit their salvation.
Now let’s look at John 15:1-7
15:1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. (NKJV)
Now Jesus is giving a parable too illustrate a truth. What truth is he trying too convey? Let’s take a look at it a little closer. In verse 1 Jesus states that He is the vine. And that God is the one who tends the vine. In verse 2 Jesus states that every branch in Him that does not bear fruit God takes away. Now who is Jesus referring too when He uses the term “branch”? This question is answered by Jesus Himself in verse 5, which states that we are the branches. So Jesus is saying that everyone in Him that does not bear fruit (i.e. the fruit of the Spirit; love, joy, peace, etc.) God takes away. Now what does it mean for someone to be in Christ? Can someone who is not truly saved be in Christ? No! Only true believers are in Christ. (2 Cor 13:5 states: 5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?--unless indeed you are disqualified. (NKJV) This passage makes it plain that someone who is “disqualified” is no longer in Christ; he has been cut off. It also proves that only true believers are in Christ.) So what Jesus is saying in verse 2 is that if a true believer does not produce the fruit of the Spirit in his life, he will be cut off from Christ. (i.e. forfeit his salvation.) So then; how do we produce the fruit of the Spirit? Verse 4 gives us the answer; verse 4 commands us too “abide” in Jesus, and He will abide in us. So what does the word “abide” mean in the Greek? It means: “NT:3306 meno (men'-o); a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):
KJV - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Hence what Jesus is commanding us to do is too continue to walk in obedience too Him. And thus maintain our relationship with Him. (Jesus makes this plain in John 15:10-11 10. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. (NKJV) Hence it is by keeping His commandment’s that we abide in Him and produce the fruit of the Spirit.) And if we refuse too maintain our relationship with Him. Than we will be cut off and cast into the Lake of fire! For verse 6 states “If anyone does not abide (i.e. continue, dwell, stay) in me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. !
Thus we conclude that Jesus is teaching us, that a true believer can indeed forfeit his salvation!
Let’s go on to the next passage.
2 Peter 2:18-22
8 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire." (NKJV)

 

[Elder1]

The message that Peter is giving here is unmistakable. Peter is saying that there are people who don’t know the Lord that are enticing true believers too go back into the bondage of sin that they have been delivered from. And Peter states that if such true believers turn back too the things of the world that they have been delivered from through the power of Jesus; than it would have been better for them not to have ever been saved at all! This ties in with what Paul taught in Rom 6:1-23: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin; you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (NKJV)
In this passage Paul is speaking too true believers. He tells them that they were no longer slaves of sin. And henceforth are to walk in righteousness for holiness (without which no one shall see the Lord Heb 12:14) And Paul warns these true believers that if they go back into sin that they will suffer “death” that is, the death of the life of Christ that was in them. Hence the loss of salvation. This is what Paul meant when he stated in verse 23 that “the wages of sin is death...” the context of this chapter demands this interpretation of this verse! (Note that the “gift of God” is the crucifixion of the old nature, and the resurrection of the new through baptism. It is the total deliverance from sin’s power! In John 8:34-36 Jesus states: 34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. (NKJV) Hence the gift of God that gives us eternal life is Jesus setting us free from sins power so that we can live in perfect obedience too Him. This is what Rom 6 clearly states!
Also consider Rom 8:2-9 2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
(NKJV)
Rom 8:12-15
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God; these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." (NKJV) (note: only true believers can “die” as unsaved people are already “dead”. {Jesus said “let the dead bury their dead...” Mtt 8:22))
Gal 5:16-26
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (NKJV)
After reading these passages it should be clear that if we do not put to death the deeds of the flesh we, as true believers, will die spiritually. Thus forfeiting our salvation.
(Note: in Rom 7 Paul reverts back too a time before his conversion and describes His struggle with sin and his absolute powerlessness too over come it by his own efforts. He ends with the heart wrenching cry of “O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?” And then answers his own question with, “I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!” (Rom 7:24-25) then in chapter 8 Paul once again stresses the importance of crucifying the flesh with the power of the Holy Spirit.)
Well, let us go on the next passage.
1 Thes 3:5
5 For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain. NKJV
This passage shows Paul's concern that the true believers in Christ at Thessalonica had fallen back into sin, thus forfeiting their salvation, making all of Paul's efforts useless.
Let us go on to the next passage.
1 Cor 15:1-3
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. (NKJV)
In the Textus Receptus verse 2 reads: (1 Cor 15:2)
I preached unto you, if ye keep in memory, unless in vain ye have believed
(Interlinear Transliterated Bible. Copyright (c) 1994 by Biblesoft)

 

[Elder1]

This says that if we forget the teachings of Christ and the Apostles, that our former belief and commitment too Christ will have been meaningless. Hence we would have forfeited our salvation. Thus it is essential that we keep re-reading the bible over and over again.
Let’s go on to the next passage.
Heb 3:12-13
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. (NKJV)
Here Paul warns true believers that if they don’t exhort one another daily too live a holy life; that they stand in jeopardy of developing an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God. And it is the “deceitfulness of sin” that will cause this hardening. What this passage shows is that a true believer can depart from God.
Verse 14 reads: “14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, NKJV
Note that this verse tells us that we maintain our standing in Christ only IF we hold the beginning of our confidence to the end. The word “if” implies the negative, that if you do not hold fast the beginning of your confidence steadfast to the end, you will not remain a partaker of Christ!

 

[Elder1]

Let us go on to the next passage.
1 John 5:16-17
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. (NKJV)
John tells us here that there are sins that lead a true believer too death. (i.e. spiritual death. Thus too the forfeiture of salvation.) John does not list those sins for us; only tells us that such sins do exist; and can be committed by true believers. We have already seen some of these sins in this study, and there are others also. But I won’t go into all of them here in this study.
Let’s go on to the next passage.
Heb 12:14-17
14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking diligently lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears. (NKJV)
This passage makes it plain that a true believer can fall short of God’s grace. This passage shows that bitterness, and fornication is cause for someone too forfeit their salvation.
Let’s go on the next passage‘s.
Luke 11:4
And forgive us our sins,
For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. NKJV
Matt 6:14-15
14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses (NKJV)
Mark 11:25-26
25 "And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses." (NKJV)
Matt 18:21-35
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" 22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, 'Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.' 27 "Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, 'Pay me what you owe!' 29 "So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.' 30 "And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?' 34 "And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses." (NKJV)
Luke 6:37
Forgive, and you will be forgiven. (NKJV)
All of these passages make it plain that our forgiveness for our sin’s is based (in part) upon whether or not we forgive others. Jesus gave the parable,
(Mtt 18:21-35) to warn us about the danger of refusing too forgive others. You see, WE are the one’s who owe God the “ten thousand talents”, (i.e. Our sin is so great that there is no way that we can make thing’s right on our own, and we are thus damned too an eternity in Hell.) God, in His mercy, has forgiven us this “debt” that we cannot pay. (And thus changed our destiny from Hell too Heaven) Therefore it is reasonable that we should forgive others who have wronged us. But if we, as true Christian's, should absolutely refuse too forgive other’s who have wronged us; Then God will refuse too forgive us. And the previous “debt” that was previously forgiven will be once again ours too pay. (Which means that we forfeit our salvation, and go too Hell)
Ezek 3:18-21, 18:4, 21-32 and 33:12-20 clarify what Jesus was talking about. I will give them in their full text so that there is no misunderstanding the context:
Ezek 3:17-21
18 When I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die,' and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. 20 Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you did not give him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand. 21 Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man that the righteous should not sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; also you will have delivered your soul." (NKJV)
Ezek 18:4, 21-32
4 "Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.

21 "But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?" says the Lord GOD, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not fair.' Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not fair.' O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair? 30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways," says the Lord GOD. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies," says the Lord GOD. "Therefore turn and live! (NKJV)
This passage makes it plain that if you forsake God by becoming rebellious too His ways; that all of your former righteousness in Christ will be completely forgotten, and all of your former sins will be brought back and charged too your account. It will be as though He had never known you!
It’s repeated in Ezek 33:12-20:
'The righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall because of it in the day that he turns from his wickedness; nor shall the righteous be able to live because of his righteousness in the day that he sins.' 13 "When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die
. 14 Again, when I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die,' if he turns from his sin and does what is lawful and right, 15 if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen, and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16 None of his sins which he has committed shall be remembered against him; he has done what is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
17 "Yet the children of your people say, 'The way of the LORD is not fair.' But it is their way which is not fair! 18 When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he shall die because of it. 19 But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is lawful and right, he shall live because of it. 20 Yet you say, 'The way of the LORD is not fair.' O house of Israel, I will judge every one of you according to his own ways." (NKJV)
Hence, if we choose too refuse too forgive men their trespasses, God will choose to “un-forgive” us our trespasses. It is true that God takes our sin’s and casts them as far away as the east is from the west. But that doesn't mean that God forgets them. It just means that He refuses too hold them against us. (if you are going west, you have too turn around in order too go east. Hence God simply puts our sins behind him. And if we should do something worthy of losing our salvation over, (such as refusing too forgive other’s) He will reach around behind Him and get your sin’s and recharge them too your account.)

 

[Elder1]

This also explains what Jesus meant in Matt 7:21-23: "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (NKJV)
The Bible tells us that Satan does not cast out Satan, or else his kingdom will fall. (Mk 3:23-26) So if these people who stand before God truly did cast out demons in the name of Jesus. Then you can be certain that they cast them out by the power of God! Hence, these people who are standing before God too be judged, were at one time True Christians. For they could not have cast out demons if they were not true Christians! (Remember the 7 son’s of Sceva? Acts 19:13-18 tells us this: 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches." 14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so. 15 And the evil spirit answered and said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?" 16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17 This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. NKJV (note that the reason that they could not cast the demons out was because they did not have true faith. Hence they did not have the power of God too cast out the demons with. Mk 16 tells us that one of the signs that mark a true believer is the ability too cast out demon’s.) Yet Jesus claims too have never known them!
The only way that this verse makes any sense is if you interpret it in the light of Ezek. And thus these passages also refer too true believers forfeiting their salvation.
Lets go on too the next passage.
James 5:19-20
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. (NKJV)
James starts this verse by addressing the “brethren”. Hence he is referring too true believers. He states that it is possible for them too wander from the truth. (if anyone among you wanders from the truth). Then in verse 20 James calls this true believer that has wandered from the truth a “sinner” and states that if someone should turn this errant brother back from his error, that he will have saved this true believer from “death”. In other words. If a true believer goes into a sinful habit, and refuses too repent. He will die spiritually. And thus forfeit his salvation. This is why we as believers are too look out for one another and exhort one another daily, so that we can help each other stay free from sin, and thus maintain the salvation that has been given too us.
Let us go on to the next scripture.
Rev 2:1-7
2:1 "To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,
'These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lamp stands: 2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; 3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name's sake and have not become weary. 4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lamp stand from its place--unless you repent. 6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." ' (NKJV)
This passage was written too the “angle” of the church of Ephesus. Now the word “angle” means “messenger”. And it is probably a reference too a ruling elder at Ephesus who had the gift of prophecy. And hence literally gave God’s messages too the people. Thus he, (as well as other prophets) was God’s messenger, or “angle”, too the people. And it was his responsibility too read this short epistle too the congregation.
Now this church, as with all of the 7 churches listed here in the first part of Rev., was filled with true believers. And Jesus starts His message with praising them for what they are doing right. But then He tells them what they are doing wrong. And that if these true believers don’t repent, they will forfeit their salvation. For it is only those who overcome that will be allowed too eat from the tree of life, and thus live forever with God.
Next passage.
Rev 3:1-6
3:1 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent.Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. 6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (NKJV)
The church at Sardis had a name among the people of Sardis that they were alive in Christ. But Gods view of them was that they were dead.
Which indicates that at one time, the church at Sardis was truly saved with all kinds of miracles happening due too the Power of God. This would be the only way that the church in Sardis would have had the “reputation” of being “alive”. But they evidently back slide. And at this point, they were keeping the wheels of religion spinning without any true life of Christ in it. Yet they had managed too keep some of the original doctrines, and practices that they had learned. Yet even these were in jeopardy of being lost. Hence Jesus tells them too strengthen those things, and too turn from their other sin’s, and get back too obeying the truth. (i.e. repent).
Yet, Jesus say’s that there were some in Sardis that had not defiled their clean souls with sin. They were walking in perfect obedience too God. Hence they were counted worthy too walk with Jesus “in white”.
Then Jesus say’s that he who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments.
And what is it that they are too over come? Sin, and the power of sin that keeps them in bondage too it. If they do this, then Jesus promises too leave there name in the Book of life. But the negative is also implied; i.e. if they don’t do as He say’s He WILL remove their name from the Book of life.
Now, the fact that a persons name can be removed from the Book of life, proves that true believers can forfeit their salvation. Because it is only true believers that have their name’s written in the Book of Life! (see Rev 13:8, 17:8, 20:15, 22:19) (note that in Rev 3:5, and 22:19 it mentions the removal of peoples names from the Book of Life.)

 

[Elder1]

Next passage.
Rev 3:14-22
4 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'--and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked-- 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (NKJV)
This passage say’s that if you, as a true believer become lukewarm, you will be violently rejected by Christ>(“vomiting” is a violent rejection of the body of something that has been ingested. The only way someone can be “vomited” out of Christ’s mouth is if someone has first entered into Christ. So an unsaved person cannot be “vomited” out of Christ. Because he never was in Christ too begin with. Hence this passage must be interpreted too mean that a true believer is the one being cast out. Thus forfeiting his salvation.)
On to the next passage.
Luke 12:42-47
42 And the Lord said, "Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. 45 But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. (NKJV)
Matt 24:45-51
45 "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' 49 "and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (NKJV)
The servant in this parable is a true believer. The master is the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus gave this parable too warn true believers that if they do not stay faithful, then when He comes back, He will appoint them there portion with the unbelievers. Now what is the portion of the unbelievers? Hell! So this parable teaches us that a true believer who back slides can forfeit his salvation.
On to the next passage.
Matt 13:2-9
3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: "Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" (NKJV)
Matt 13:18-23
18 "Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word
of the kingdom
, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty." (NKJV)
This parable tells us that there are four types of “hearer’s”, or “soils”, or “heart’s” into which the word of God is sown. The first person hears the word of God. But he does not understand it. Thus it take no root in him. And Satan removes it from him. Such a person never gets saved.
The second person hears the gospel and repents, He receives Jesus into his heart with joy as the weight of sin is lifted off from him and his sin’s are forgiven. But this person “has no root in himself”. In other word’s, he fails too pray, study the bible, fellowship, and praise and worship the Lord on a daily basis. Hence He does not become rooted in the things of God. So when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles, i.e. he walks away from the faith rather than suffer for it. Thus He “withers away”, i.e. forfeits his salvation.

The third person becomes a Christian, but then he allows the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches to the life of Christ out of Him. (the word “word” means Jesus. (Jn 1:1)) Thus He forfeits his salvation.
The fourth person gets saved, and remains faithful through tribulation, and persecution, and does not allow the cares of this world too choke out the life of Christ in him. And thus he maintains his salvation, and bear’s fruit.

James and John tell us: “James 4:3-4 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? (NKJV)
1 John 2:15-17
15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who DOES the will of God abides forever. (NKJV)) (Which implies that if you don’t do the will of God, you wont abide forever.)
On to the next passage.
Matt 25:1-30
25:1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!' 7 "Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' 9 "But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.' 10 "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. 11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!' 12 "But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.' 13 "Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.
The ten virgins are all true believers. We know this because virgins are undefiled. And the only one who are undefiled in God’s eyes are true believers. Oil represents the Holy Spirit. The five wise virgins had plenty of oil too spare because they prayed, worshiped, studied their bibles, fellowshipped, etc, on a daily basis. The foolish virgins just cruised along thinking that they were o.k. with God. They might have opened there bible once a week, and went too church just as often. They did just enough too sooth their consciences, but not enough too keep their lamps burning. Hence When Jesus came they were left outside of the feast. And Jesus proclaimed that He did not know them. i.e. he did not have intimate fellowship with them. Thus They forfeited their salvation.
(Continuing)
14 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, (i.e. Jesus leaving the earth for awhile.) who called his own servants (i.e. true believers.) and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord's money. 19 After a long time (Here Jesus tells us that it would be a long time before He returned.) the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, 'Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.' 21 "His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.' 22 "He also who had received two talents came and said, 'Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.' 23 "His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.' 24 "Then he who had received the one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.' 26 "But his lord answered and said to him, ’You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' (NKJV)
Here we see that if we as true believers do not use the gifts that He has given too us; however small they may be; then we will forfeit our salvation. God has no place in his kingdom for lazy people.

 

[Elder1]

On to the next passage. (Yes, there is more.)
Jude 5-13
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. (Now these people had witnessed God’s miraculous delivering power. And all of them were true believers. (Who could still be an unbeliever after seeing so much of God’s power?) yet most of them ended up going into unbelief. Hence they were not permitted to enter the promised land. This is a warning too true believers that if they go back into unbelief, they too shall not enter the “promised land” (i.e. heaven)). 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; (Here we see that Angles, who were already in heaven, and enjoying the pleasures of God, decided to leave the place that God had placed them in. Thus disobeying God. God then put them into Tatarus (i.e. Hell). This tells us that even after we get too heaven we can be cast out of there if we rebel against God as these angles did.) 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead,(note; no one can be “twice dead” Unless he has been born again once! Those who have never been saved, are dead once. For they are born spiritually dead, (see: Matt 8:21-22, Mark 12:25-27, Luke 9:60-61, Rom 6:12-13, Eph 2:1, Eph 5:13-14, 1 Cor 15:21-22 *, Col 2:13, 1 Tim 5:6,) those who are born again and lose their salivation, die a second time. (i.e. spiritually) (please note that these people that James is talking about are still alive physically. But they have died spiritually, hence they are twice dead. Note also that it is only a true believer that can die spiritually, seeing that unbelievers are already dead spiritually, they cannot die spiritually.) pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. NKJV. (Note, that hell’s smoke is so thick that you can’t see your hand in front of your face.)
On to the next passage.
Gal 5:4
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (NKJV)
This verse tells us that it is possible for a true believer to fall from grace. And if it is possible for a true believer to fall from grace, than it is impossible for grace alone to sustain his salvation.
Notice also that Paul is talking to those who are trying to be justified by the law, as opposed to being justified by faith. This has nothing to do with being obedient to God’s morale laws, which is essential to maintaining our salvation, as Paul makes plain in Gal 5.
On to the next passage.
1 Tim 6:20-21
20 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babble and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge-- 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen. (NKJV)
This passage tells us that we must GUARD what we learn so that we do not stray concerning the faith. (This implies the forfeiture of salvation as the people who have strayed are believing false knowledge.)
On to the next Passage.
1 Cor 15:1-2
15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. (NKJV)
Here Paul tells us that we need too hold on tight too the teachings of scripture, and failing this, our belief will be in vain. And we will forfeit the salvation that we once had.
On to the next passage.
1 Tim 5:11-12
11 But refuse the younger widows; for when they have begun to grow wanton against Christ, they desire to marry, 12 having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith. (NKJV)
This tells us that it is possible to cast off our first faith. And that if we do so we have condemnation.
And finally the last passage
Isa 63:7-10
I will mention the loving kindnesses of the LORD, And the praises of the LORD, According to all that the LORD has bestowed on us, And the great goodness toward the house of Israel, Which He has bestowed on them according to His mercies, According to the multitude of His loving kindnesses.
8 For He said, "Surely they are My people, Children who will not lie." So He became their Savior. 9 In all their affliction He was afflicted, And the Angel of His Presence saved them; In His love and in His pity He redeemed them;
And He bore them and carried them, All the days of old. 10 But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; So He turned Himself against them as an enemy, And He fought against them. (NKJV)
This is self explanatory.
Now that we have gone through all of the scripture that deal with the forfeiture of salvation. (At least it is all of the scriptures that I have been able to find so far. There may be more. And I am certain that there are many passages in the Old test. that can be used to illustrate the loss of salvation.) Let us now examine the scriptures that deal with eternal security.
The first one we shall examine is Heb 10:13-15
14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. NKJV
This verse is often taken out of context to prove that you can not lose your salvation. The argument is that if He has indeed perfected you forever, than you can never become imperfect. This assumes that your position in Christ is above any sin that you might possibly commit. Thus it is impossible for you to forfeit your salvation through any act of disobedience.
There are a couple of problems with this interpretation. First, this passage is written in the 10th chapter of Heb. And is only 12 verses away from Pauls 3erd warning and teaching about true believers being able to forfeit their salvation.
Therefore we cannot interpret this verse to mean that a true believer cannot forfeit his salvation. As Paul obviously never intended this verse to mean that.

 

[Elder1]

So what did Paul mean when he wrote this? How would he have understood this passage?
When the Bible writers wrote the word “forever” they did not mean “throughout the ceaseless ages.” But rather, “an indefinite time period that can come to an end”. Let me illustrate this from the Old Testament.
Ex 27:20-21
20 "And you shall command the children of Israel that they bring you pure oil of pressed olives for the light, to cause the lamp to burn continually. 21 In the tabernacle of meeting, outside the veil which is before the Testimony, Aaron and his sons shall tend it from evening until morning before the LORD. It shall be a statute forever to their generations on behalf of the children of Israel. NKJV
Ex 28:40-43
40 "For Aaron's sons you shall make tunics, and you shall make sashes for them. And you shall make hats for them, for glory and beauty. 41 So you shall put them on Aaron your brother and on his sons with him. You shall anoint them, consecrate them, and sanctify them, that they may minister to Me as priests. 42 And you shall make for them linen trousers to cover their nakedness; they shall reach from the waist to the thighs. 43 They shall be on Aaron and on his sons when they come into the tabernacle of meeting, or when they come near the altar to minister in the holy place, that they do not incur iniquity and die. It shall be a statute forever to him and his descendants after him. NKJV
Lev 10:8-11
8 Then the LORD spoke to Aaron, saying: 9 "Do not drink wine or intoxicating drink, you, nor your sons with you, when you go into the tabernacle of meeting, lest you die. It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, 10 that you may distinguish between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean, 11 and that you may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD has spoken to them by the hand of Moses." NKJV
In the above passages we see that these commands (and there are many more like it,) were to last “forever”. yet the command’s perished altogether with the destruction of the temple in ad 70, and the installation of the new covenant. Hence God, who foresees the future, did not mean for the word “forever” to be interpreted to mean “never ending”. But rather “an indefinite period of time that will end when I chose to end it.”
1 Sam 2:30
30 "Therefore the LORD God of Israel says: 'I said indeed that your house and the house of your father would walk before Me forever.' But now the LORD says: 'Far be it from Me; for those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed. NKJV
Here we see that even though God intended to originally cause Elis house to walk before Him forever, (In this instance, the word forever does mean “without end”) God now changes his mind. Because Elis son’s did not obey the Lord, God now removes his blessing from them.
So it is also true with the promises of eternal life in the New Testament. God intends for us to live with Him forever! But this promise is conditioned upon us remaining in Christ through our obedience too Him.
2 Sam 7:13-17
13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men. 15 But My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever." ' " 17 According to all these words and according to all this vision, so Nathan spoke to David. NKJV (I Chron 17:11-15)
Here is an apparent unconditional promise from God that Solomon’s kingdom would last forever. Nothing is said in this passage about obedience being a condition of the kingdoms continuance. In fact, God says that if he commits iniquity that he would chasten him, but the throne would continue. Yet we know that in about 500 BC the throne of Solomon ceased when the Jews went into captivity in Babylon. And to this day a descendant of David does not sit on a throne in Israel. (for 2500 years the throne of David/Solomon has not existed) Hence this promise failed. Unless, we understand that all such Promises are conditioned upon continued obedience. We see this in other passages concerning the same Promise. i.e.
1 Chron 28:5-7
5 And of all my sons (for the LORD has given me many sons) He has chosen my son Solomon to sit on the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel. 6 Now He said to me, 'It is your son Solomon who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be My son, and I will be his Father. 7 Moreover I will establish his kingdom forever, if he is steadfast to observe My commandments and My judgments, as it is this day.' NKJV

 

[Elder1]

1 Chron 28:9-10
9 "As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever. NKJV
So you see, if we take into account other passages that deal with the same topic, we get a better understanding of what the promise is all about.
In this instance we can take two or three passages and ignore all of the other passages that deal with the subject, and end up with an unbalanced doctrine that says that Gods promise of the throne of Solomon lasting forever is unconditional, and thus must last forever at all cost’s, no matter what the circumstances. Or we can look at all of the scriptures, and come to a balanced doctrine that says that even though other passages appear to be unconditional in there promises; the fact that other promises have the condition of obedience attached to it as a condition of the throne continuing to exist; we therefore must conclude that even the promises that appear to be unconditional are indeed not unconditional, and are also subject to the condition of continued obedience.
And so it is with the New Testament promises of eternal life. The fact that there are so many passages that plainly state that a true believer can forfeit his salvation, forces us to conclude that the promises that appear to be unconditional are in fact conditional.
Now let us look at some more of the New Test scriptures.
Rom 8:33-39:
33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (NKJV)
In light of other passages that tell us to rebuke a brother when he sins against us, and to excommunicate him if he refuses to repent. (Lk 17:3-4, Mt 18:15-18, I Cor 5:1- 6:8, Gal 6:1, Jms 5:16-20) And in light of the fact that in Chapter 11 of this same book, Paul warns us that we will be cut off if we go back into unbelief; We must conclude that Paul did not write this passage for the purpose of providing a proof text that a true believer cannot forfeit his salvation. So then, How are we to properly understand this text? It can have only one meaning, that no one can bring a charge from a believers past to use against him in the present. For it is God who justifies us. Let me illustrate. When someone repents of their sins, and asks God to forgive them based upon the blood of Jesus Christ. And surrenders the rest of his life to serving God; and is baptized in water, and the Holy Spirit. Then his sins are forgiven him. He has become a new creation in Christ Jesus. His old way of life is passed away, and he is now a saint. If someone thereafter comes along and says “You cant possibly be a Christian, I know you; you murdered so and so; you stole money from me; you slept with so and so’s wife, etc. It is in these instances that this verse applies. But if this brother now goes back into sin; it is the responsibility of the brotherhood to rebuke him and try to get him back on the track of holiness. And if he refuses to repent, he stands in jeopardy of forfeiting his salvation.
Concerning the second part of the verse: When it states “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? “ he than lists a whole bunch of EXTERNAL THINGS! In other words, there is no external thing that can separate you from the love of Christ. But you, of your own free will can walk away from Him. And He will not hold you against your will!
Please also note that sin is not mentioned in the list. There is a good reason, i.e. sin will separate you from God’s love.
On to the next passage.
Eph 1:13-14
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJV
Now this passage says that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. What is the Holy Spirit of promise? According to the following passages, it is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 1:4-5 4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." NKJV
Acts 2:33-34 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. NKJV)
Now let us talk about seals for a moment. When we seal a letter, this seal can be opened with some steam. When Christ’s tomb was sealed, that seal was broken when the angle rolled it away. When cans are sealed in factories, that seal is broken with a can opener. When jars are sealed shut, the seal is broken by twisting the cap off. When letters were sealed in Jesus day; the seal was broken when the letter was opened and read. Do you see my point?
Seal’s can be broken. And the Seal of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit can be broken as well with your sin.
Now the word “guarantee” is a miss translation. The word in the Greek is:
NT:728
arrhabon (ar-hrab-ohn'); of Hebrew origin [OT:6162]; a pledge, i.e. part of the purchase-money or property given in advance as security for the rest:
KJV - earnest.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
In other words, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the down payment of our inheritance. It shows that God is interested in finishing the purchase at “the redemption of the purchased possession”(i.e. when we die, or Christ comes back for us. Which ever happens first.); provided that we finish the race that is set before us. It is not an absolute guarantee that you will make heaven. (Remember, this is Paul's teaching, and we have already established that Paul taught that a true believer can lose his salvation. So do you think that Paul would now write something contrary to what he has taught elsewhere? I think not!)
So then, the proper reading of the verse is: “sealed (which can be broken by you with sin) with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the down payment of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.” And we see that this verse has nothing to do with eternal security. It is simply telling us that God has a vested interest in us.
On to the next verse.

Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
This verse is constantly taken out of context and given the meaning that since we are saved by grace through faith, and not of any works on our part; then our salvation is maintained through grace alone without works on our part, because works were not involved in the original saving of our souls. But they totally forget the next verse:
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. NKJV
What Paul is talking about is that apart from the works of salvation (i.e. repentance, baptism, etc.) there is no other system of “works” that you can do to “earn” your salvation. Paul was speaking to people who thought that they did not need to go through the salvation process to be saved. All they needed to do was be a good person and they would go to heaven. Paul was showing them that they could not rely on there own works to get to heaven. They had to come to God on His terms, not there own terms. And once they came to God; they were then expected to walk in good works thereafter. Or else forfeit their salvation.
　

 

[Elder1]

Ok, well thats everything that i have on the subject.

God bless.

Elder1

 

[Radius]

Who is going to read ALL of that Elder? Seriously.

The only problem with your theory, and my only rebuttal is: "how much repenting does one have to do in order to retain salvation?"

-AND-

How do you ignore verses like:

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

"And are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,"


I believe that if one receives God truly then God will bring them to repentance. If that person NEVER repents, doesn't feel sorry for sins, then that person may have never been saved in the first place. Though, in God's mercy, if one truly is saved, and continues on in sin, God may take their life because they are not producing the kind of life that God demands. Backsliders are admitted to Heaven, I believe. But for those that never changed nor repented--ever--probably will not enter the Kingdom of God.

 

[Elder1]

Who is going to read ALL of that Elder? Seriously.

The only problem with your theory, and my only rebuttal is: "how much repenting does one have to do in order to retain salvation?"

-AND-

How do you ignore verses like:

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

"And are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,"


I believe that if one receives God truly then God will bring them to repentance. If that person NEVER repents, doesn't feel sorry for sins, then that person may have never been saved in the first place. Though, in God's mercy, if one truly is saved, and continues on in sin, God may take their life because they are not producing the kind of life that God demands. Backsliders are admitted to Heaven, I believe. But for those that never changed nor repented--ever--probably will not enter the Kingdom of God.

I have not ignored those verses, I have addressed them in the study.

and the bible says that we are to live without sin! Have you never read 1 John chapter 3?1 John 3:3-9
3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
4 Sin and the Child of God

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
NKJV

So, how many times does someone need to repent? every time they sin! without exception!

Look, if you wont read the tretise you wont have your questions treroughly answered. please dont make me repeat myself when I have already answered you in the tretise above.

Thanks.

God bless and have a great day.

elder1

 

[Elder1]

because of the way that they have set this up, I cannot modify the answer that I gave you above. so all that I can do is repost my changes to what I wanted to say. so sorry for the repeat post.

Who is going to read ALL of that Elder? Seriously.

The only problem with your theory, and my only rebuttal is: "how much repenting does one have to do in order to retain salvation?"

-AND-

How do you ignore verses like:

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

"And are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,"


I believe that if one receives God truly then God will bring them to repentance. If that person NEVER repents, doesn't feel sorry for sins, then that person may have never been saved in the first place. Though, in God's mercy, if one truly is saved, and continues on in sin, God may take their life because they are not producing the kind of life that God demands. Backsliders are admitted to Heaven, I believe. But for those that never changed nor repented--ever--probably will not enter the Kingdom of God.

I have not ignored those verses, I have addressed them in the study.

and the bible says that we are to live without sin! Have you never read 1 John chapter 3?1 John 3:3-9
3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
4 Sin and the Child of God

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
NKJV

So, how many times does someone need to repent? every time they sin! without exception!

Ok, look, At what point does someone get saved? is it when they believe the gospel and repent? or is it only after they have proven themselves by the works they do later on? I contend that salvation is given when someone believes. (like the theif on the cross for example.) so if this is true, then all who come to believe the gospel are saved. Yes there can be false believers. but that is a different story. what I have proven in the study above is that true believers can forfiet their salvation!

Look, if you wont read the tretise, you wont have your questions theroughly answered. please dont make me repeat myself when I have already answered you in the tretise above.

Thanks.

God bless and have a great day.

elder1

 

[Radius]

Elder, but we fall short of the Glory of God EVERY DAY. Sin comes in hundreds of ways, and WE ALL commit them daily--like clockwork.

I'll ask you again in a different way: by your reasoning, there HAS TO BE A CUT OFF POINT, a line, a measuring stick if you will where God says, "You committed TOO MUCH sin, so to hell you go!" Where is that cut off line?

I'll tell you where it is--it is at the cross--just as His death and resurrection divided time so it is the same with our sin and making a path back to the Father! I believe Grace covers ALL SIN.

Grace, Grace, God's Grace, Grace that is GREATER than ALL our sin! ♫