Ananias and Sapphira

[phil-uk]

I'm sorry if this is a common question on here as I imagine it might be, I'm new to christianity and am currently reading the book of acts and came across this story where Ananias and Sapphira suddenly drop dead for not disclosing all of their earnings etc. Whilst I understand they have lied to God, I cant seem to excuse the fact that God has killed them for it. Obviously this is their free will to do such a thing and they weren't even given a chance to repent. Am I missing something here?

 

[JGPS]

Considering the world is in His hands all death is of Gods doing. It's because of things we do, but if someone dies, God has allowed it to happen. It's a basic premise of Christianity that all deserve to die, and God is just in doling out that sentence. That he did it instantly with Ananias and Sapphira is not really that different than anyone else who dies suddenly. Death is His judgment.

The good thing is that he has chosen to resurrect those who serve him.

 

[kenisyes]

I think you need to consider the timeline. Late march, throngs welcomed Jesus to Jerusalem riding on a donkey. 3 days later, everyone ran away and there were only three people by the cross, and one of those was His mother. Three days later, talk of resurrection starts growing and is known to everyone in Jerusalem. For 50 days nobody hears any more, and then suddenly, end of May, there's a 120 friends and relatives praying in an upper room in tongues (whatever that is they had never heard before), and 3000 people get saved. Within weeks, 12 ex-fishermen, zealots and tax collectors are running a community of maybe 5000 converts, a job for which they have no formal credentials, and it's working. We know this thing lasted less than 8 months, because we are told by early writings that Paul started his ministry a year ater the ascension (May), and we can work backwards. Sometime by August or so, many of the 5000 people said, "let's do like the folks at Qumran. Let's sell everything and buy property together, so we can study about Jesus". So, the 12 guys, already burdened by having to set up deacons because of arguments over food, take the money, buy the property, and start feeding the people, who now have no resources left. They all pledge each other everything, all their life savings, all their futures. Just like the people today who think Jesus is coming back in June or whenever sometimes do. And it's getting worse; the pharisees are angry, and the weight of the Temple government is starting to threaten. Now here's a couple that want to join up. They say "here's all my money, let me live with you and off the common purse. Give us the same voting rights, and authority you all have, because our lives are now yours so we can follow Jesus." They said to God, and to several thousand people, "we are 100% with you, and have given up the right to walk away. We will have no backup plan for when the Temple sends the Roman army in. If we die, we die with you in the name of Jesus." But they hid some money. They were ready to run; they were not committed. This was not a time for cowards.

 

[starfield]

Yes it seems like God withheld a bit of mercy and grace from them but He is holy and has the prerogative to do whatever He pleases and He said that His Spirit will not always strive with man. He is the Potter and we are only clay, dust of the earth.
Rom 9:15-16 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. [16] So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

These people committed premeditated sin against God and probably did not have any desire to repent and thereby incurred direct judgment. I guess the principle to learn is that we should love and fear (reverence) God for though He is longsuffering, He's also a consuming fire.

 

[BishopSEH]

I know in some ways these passages paint God in a less than positive light. Consider that God is the Creator as likened to the potter. We are the clay to be formed by the potter for whatever use he deems fit.

These two folks, Ananias and Sapphira, agreed with themselves to sell their own land, which they did not have to do. They decided to keep a portion of the money for themselves, which was their right to do. Then individually, they told the Apostles that they sold the land and gave all the money to them from the sale. Their accounts were in agreement, which means they planned out a lie. Not a lie to the Apostles as they likely supposed but a lie to Jesus whom the Apostles served and to whom they claimed to serve publically.

Now if they had told the Apostles we sold the land and keep a portion for ourselves but the rest we give to the service of the Lord they would have been fine. They would not have lied to God while trying to make themselves look good. Further, they did not have to sell the land or give anything. We can see they did this to gain a position of prestige within the followers. For what motive? We are not told.

There has never been a command from God to sell all and give all. A suggestion, yes, as with the rich young ruler but never a command of force. Now about there judgments. God being the potter decided that the clay vessels He had made, Ananias and Sapphira, were damaged and slated them for destruction. When you have a crack in a plate or bowl you can choose to risk using them and risk contaminating what you place in them with foreign material. God chose not to risk the flock by allowing the foreign material from those two to contaminate the others and thus removed their life leaving a warning to all not to seek to do harm to the Bride.

When you choose to throw out (destroy) a damaged plate or bowl, do you feel bad about it? No, of course not. Neither will God feel bad for destroying that which He created and which had become a danger to others. Ultimately, its a matter of perspective. We do not know what damage would have resulted from them having lived because they did not live. We only know that God so fit to take immediate action.

In Christ,

Bishop SEH

 

[phil-uk]

Thankyou for your detailed responses, I found a youtube video on this earlier that mentioned the same things you did "God is the potter and we are the clay" which makes sense to me now. I also think that God was trying to build a solid foundation from the start. I feel happier now. So thankyou all and God Bless

 

[Elin]

I've noticed sort of a pattern in these kinds of judgments on sin by God.

They seem to occur at beginnings.

At the beginning of the priesthood, God's judgment fell on the disobedience of the priests Nadab and Abihu (Lev 10:2).

At the beginning of their entering into the promised land, God's judgment fell on the disobedience of Achan (Josh 7:25).

At the beginning of the reoccupation of Jerusalem, God's judgment fell on the disobedience of Uzzah (2Sa 6:7).

And at the beginning of the church era, God's judgment fell on the sin of Ananias and Sapphira.

Is God initiating them into the seriousness of sin, to cause them to pay attention to the importance of obedience, for their own sakes?

Kinda' like shock and awe. . .

 

[danschance]

The bible is silent as to why God killed Ananias and Sapphira. At best, we can only guess as to why God killed them. One thing is certain, it was not just a simple case of lying. It was deception with a selfish purpose and Satan had a part in it. We do not know why Satan motivated them to do this but one thing is clear, the plot that Satan hatched never came to fruition.

 

[Abiding]

i think we are told alot. they were made an example. they could have repented when Peter questioned them.
Good thing(maybe, maybe not) God doesnt kill everyone that lies and buys their way into the church recognition and leadership.
Its made clear that the giving was strictly voluntary. I think God used them as examples to show us just because
we think we get away with that kind of behavior God knows.

There is also a dynamic there to show the special Powers given to the Apostles that Jesus predicted.
So people would know the scriptures and foundation of the church was Gods doing through them as
a Special group for that time.

 

[Descyple]

Here is a animated video replaying the Ananias and Sapphira event in Acts 5.

[video=youtube;CyCAVatfLmY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyCAVatfLmY[/video]

 

[Graybeard]

View attachment 41970

The bible is silent as to why God killed Ananias and Sapphira. At best, we can only guess as to why God killed them. One thing is certain, it was not just a simple case of lying. It was deception with a selfish purpose and Satan had a part in it. We do not know why Satan motivated them to do this but one thing is clear, the plot that Satan hatched never came to fruition.

The Bible is not that silent.......they lied to God and put Him to the test.

Act 5:4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."

Act 5:9 Then Peter said to her, "How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out."

 

[JGPS]

I When you have a crack in a plate or bowl you can choose to risk using them and risk contaminating what you place in them with foreign material. God chose not to risk the flock by allowing the foreign material from those two to contaminate the others and thus removed their life leaving a warning to all not to seek to do harm to the Bride.

When you choose to throw out (destroy) a damaged plate or bowl, do you feel bad about it? No, of course not. Neither will God feel bad for destroying that which He created and which had become a danger to others.

I have to say that that I absolutely love the way you put that. It's very harsh and blunt, but oh such a good picture.

 

[gkroo]

View attachment 41970

The bible is silent as to why God killed Ananias and Sapphira. At best, we can only guess as to why God killed them. One thing is certain, it was not just a simple case of lying. It was deception with a selfish purpose and Satan had a part in it. We do not know why Satan motivated them to do this but one thing is clear, the plot that Satan hatched never came to fruition.

1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

It was not the Lord who took the spirits. It was their actions that caused them to 'give up the ghost.' Read the passage very carefully. Why did they 'give up the ghost?' They did not give all of what they had to God when they agreed to give all. The Bible is very loud at that point if you have ears to hear.

 

[crossnote]

View attachment 41970

Is this the graveyard this thread came from?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Is this the graveyard this thread came from?

Since they've been resurrected before the great white throne judgment, I guess this means they were believers. Could you please let them know on the other thread?

 

[Jackson123]

I believe if it happen now, in the regular church, God doesn't kill them.

A lot of corrupt pastor and not die instantly.

I believe it was Peter as a pastor under anoint of the Holy spirit. so lie to Peter mean lie to Holy spirit. And Holy spirit struct them on the spot.

 

[MarcR]

They were NOT struck down for holding back part of the price of their land! Peter told them it was theirs to dop with as they would. They were struck down for seeking recognition for something they had not done.

Matt 6:2-6
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
KJV
tells us that we should not seek recognition at all. To seek recognition under false pretenses posed a real danger to the early church. A statement had to be made that God, while indeed gracious, is not someone to be mocked or trifled with.

Now that the church is established; it is no longer necessary to deal with such things as immediately.

 

[Kaycie]

The bible says they lied to the Holy Spirit. This is the same as grieving the Holy Spirit. If I am tempted to sin, whether or not I do it, my conscience tells me it is wrong. And though I do wrong sometimes, I do genuinely want to do good, I just fail sometimes. Like Paul says, "The good I want to do I don't do, but the wrong I do not want to do- that I find myself doing." Do you see the difference? As a Christian we fail at times, but we do want to do good. But those who grieve being holy, or try to convince theirselves or others that their evil intention was a holy intention, that cannot be forgiven. It is counterproductive, we are in sin rehab trying to rid sin from our lives. Imagine taking the most evil sin you can think of, and trying to convince yourself or others that it is a holy thing to do. They lied to the spirit of holiness. They sinned against the Holy Spirit and against their God-given conscience.

 

[MaggieMye]

I'm sorry if this is a common question on here as I imagine it might be, I'm new to christianity and am currently reading the book of acts and came across this story where Ananias and Sapphira suddenly drop dead for not disclosing all of their earnings etc. Whilst I understand they have lied to God, I cant seem to excuse the fact that God has killed them for it. Obviously this is their free will to do such a thing and they weren't even given a chance to repent. Am I missing something here?[/QUOTE

This is a CHARACTER issue. They did not have the character of Christ, but of their spiritual father, the father of lies. By lying and being caught in the lie, they were simply proving that they were NOT of the kingdom of God. They were destined for hell all along. There really was no reason to allow them to live because although they might repent by mouth, God knew their hearts and they were not set on Him. Allowing them to live would allow them to continue in deception; to possibly become a stumbling block for a new believer; would allow them to procreate their both physical and spiritual depravity. So He nipped it in the bud....so to speak.
Maggie

 

[crossnote]

This is a CHARACTER issue. They did not have the character of Christ, but of their spiritual father, the father of lies. By lying and being caught in the lie, they were simply proving that they were NOT of the kingdom of God. They were destined for hell all along. There really was no reason to allow them to live because although they might repent by mouth, God knew their hearts and they were not set on Him. Allowing them to live would allow them to continue in deception; to possibly become a stumbling block for a new believer; would allow them to procreate their both physical and spiritual depravity. So He nipped it in the bud....so to speak.
Maggie

So one sin and we're proven to be unbelievers and NOT of the Kingdom of God?
Under that set up, I'd be tempted to go find another Savior.