Does Matthew 24 contain "Rapture Language"?

[AmmiAmmiel]

because in revelation jesus' second coming is indicated at the end of the seven trumpets...and then again at the battle of armageddon which is right after the seven bowls of wrath...and since i believe there is only -one- second coming...the trumpets of the tribulation and bowls of wrath must happen concurrently...

I've heard this position before, I don't know what to call it. But it leads me to nothing but confusion.

I strongly implore everyone to research the Prewrath Rapture position for yourselves. At least for me so you can understand my position. And perhaps even shed light on your own.

Prewrathrapture.com is a great resource website for the Presrath website. Alan Kurschner and Charles Cooper do a much better job at explaining it all.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I've heard this position before, I don't know what to call it. But it leads me to nothing but confusion.

this isn't confusing at all...

God poured out his wrath on the egyptians at the same time that the egyptians oppressed the children of israel...and -then- the israelites were led out of egypt -after- the plagues...the end time tribulation and wrath are the same way...

 

[nathan3]

this isn't confusing at all...

God poured out his wrath on the egyptians at the same time that the egyptians oppressed the children of israel...and -then- the israelites were led out of egypt -after- the plagues...the end time tribulation and wrath are the same way...

No one asked me, but I don't think I would use the word force. But I get tired of being called a heretic

 

[AmmiAmmiel]

this isn't confusing at all...

God poured out his wrath on the egyptians at the same time that the egyptians oppressed the children of israel...and -then- the israelites were led out of egypt -after- the plagues...the end time tribulation and wrath are the same way...

I can't find enough explicit biblical support for me to believe that,.. But will you please check out the Prewrath position?
Maybe it will help us both talk in a way we can better understand each other

 

[peterT]

i believe that these two things happen at the same time...

Where did you get that from in the Bible?

We are not here, when the wrath is poured out upon the earth.

we are not here, when the seven angels come having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

The wrath of God comes on the wicked people that have the mark of the beast NOT on God’s children

We are in the heavens when the 7 plagues come "AFTER" getting the victory over the beast and AFTER" getting the victory over his mark.

There we are stand on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast. Then the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out the wrath of God upon the people that have the mark of the beast.

Rv15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

As you can see we are in the heavens AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his make and before the wrath is poured out on the people that have the mark of the beast


Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

So how can you say these things happen at the same time. 'tribulation' and 'wrath'

So how can you say there is no chronological distinction between 'tribulation' and 'wrath'

The Bible say we are standing on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast, Then the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out the wrath of God upon the people that have the mark of the beast.

Unless you are thinking about the trumpet judgments, and not the seven vials of the wrath of God

 

[peterT]

this isn't confusing at all...

God poured out his wrath on the egyptians at the same time that the egyptians oppressed the children of israel...and -then- the israelites were led out of egypt -after- the plagues...the end time tribulation and wrath are the same way...

I think you are getting mixed up with the seven vials the seven last plagues with the trumpet plagues

Plagues like in Egypt at the same time that the Egyptians oppressed the children of Israel.

sea became blood.

locusts upon the earth.

We are still here for that as jesus dosent come and get us until the last trumpet.

Rv8;6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

Rv9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Where did you get that from in the Bible?

We are not here, when the wrath is poured out upon the earth.

we are not here, when the seven angels come having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

The wrath of God comes on the wicked people that have the mark of the beast NOT on God’s children

We are in the heavens when the 7 plagues come "AFTER" getting the victory over the beast and AFTER" getting the victory over his mark.

There we are stand on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast. Then the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out the wrath of God upon the people that have the mark of the beast.

Rv15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

As you can see we are in the heavens AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his make and before the wrath is poured out on the people that have the mark of the beast


Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

So how can you say these things happen at the same time. 'tribulation' and 'wrath'

So how can you say there is no chronological distinction between 'tribulation' and 'wrath'

The Bible say we are standing on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast, Then the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out the wrath of God upon the people that have the mark of the beast.

Unless you are thinking about the trumpet judgments, and not the seven vials of the wrath of God

the beast is not defeated until the battle of armageddon which comes -after- the seven bowls of wrath...so when we are there the wrath has already taken place...

we are on earth when God's wrath is poured out...but it is not poured out on us...just like in egypt when the egyptians were affected by the plagues but the israelites were not...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I think you are getting mixed up with the seven vials the seven last plagues with the trumpet plagues

Plagues like in Egypt at the same time that the Egyptians oppressed the children of Israel.

sea became blood.

locusts upon the earth.

We are still here for that as jesus dosent come and get us until the last trumpet.

Rv8;6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

Rv9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth

jesus comes at the last of the seven trumpets...
jesus comes at the battle of armageddon after the seven bowls of wrath...

jesus has only one second coming...which is also when the rapture occurs...

therefore the seven trumpets and seven bowls of wrath both happen before jesus' second coming...before we are caught up...

 

[peterT]

jesus comes at the last of the seven trumpets...
jesus comes at the battle of armageddon after the seven bowls of wrath...

jesus has only one second coming...which is also when the rapture occurs...

therefore the seven trumpets and seven bowls of wrath both happen before jesus' second coming...before we are caught up...

No, that’s us coming from the marriage supper of the lamb to the battle of armageddon, after the seven bowls of wrath...

Coming back from standing on the sea of glass after getting the victory over the beast and his mark.

Coming back from the marriage supper of the lamb

Coming back from meeting him in the air in the clouds.

Rv19: 7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Also the when the sixth angel poured out his vial, the kings of the earth and of the whole world, gather to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

How do they know when to gather to the battle of that great day, unless they have seen Jesus coming in the clouds already to pick us up.

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

The bible says we are standing on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast when the seven angels pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

There we are stand on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast. Then the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out the wrath of God upon the people that have the mark of the beast.

Rv15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

As you can see we are in the heavens AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his make and before the wrath is poured out on the people that have the mark of the beast


Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

 

[peterT]

the beast is not defeated until the battle of armageddon which comes -after- the seven bowls of wrath...so when we are there the wrath has already taken place...

we are on earth when God's wrath is poured out...but it is not poured out on us...just like in egypt when the egyptians were affected by the plagues but the israelites were not...

When you are thinking about the plagues of Egypt that came not upon the children of God but the wicked.

These are the plagues that will not hurt us, the trumpet plagues, which we will be here for, as Jesus comes at the LAST trumpet

Rv8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.


10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter
.
12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Rv9 1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.



13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

17And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

 

[peterT]

the beast is not defeated until the battle of armageddon which comes -after- the seven bowls of wrath...so when we are there the wrath has already taken place...

we are on earth when God's wrath is poured out...but it is not poured out on us...just like in egypt when the egyptians were affected by the plagues but the israelites were not...

If you are going to tell the story see if you can tell the story with scripture

 

[AmmiAmmiel]

jesus comes at the last of the seven trumpets...
jesus comes at the battle of armageddon after the seven bowls of wrath...

jesus has only one second coming...which is also when the rapture occurs...

therefore the seven trumpets and seven bowls of wrath both happen before jesus' second coming...before we are caught up...

I think you misunderstand the word "coming",.. In Greek the word is Parousia. When used in a royal sense (as in the second coming of Christ), it means a coming and continual presence. When He come on a cloud after the Celestial Disturbance (See Matthew 24:29-30 and Revelation 6:12-17), that is the only time He comes again after His original ascention. He gathers His Elect, performs the marriage ceremony and then begins to pour out His wrath on the Earth.

 

[GRA]

Order of Events:

Abomination Of Desolation
Great Tribulation
Trumpet 1
Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3
Trumpet 4
Trumpet 5
Trumpet 6
Heaven / Temple Opened
JESUS
Trumpet 7
Rapture
Pre-Wrath
Vial 1
Vial 2
Vial 3
Vial 4
Vial 5
Vial 6
Armageddon
Vial 7
Marriage Supper

Study: Order of Events

 

[Abiding]

Gra some modern versions have a latte break
between vial 6&7. But i couldnt find it in my greek NT

 

[AmmiAmmiel]

Order of Events:

Abomination Of Desolation
Great Tribulation
Trumpet 1
Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3
Trumpet 4
Trumpet 5
Trumpet 6
Heaven / Temple Opened
JESUS
Trumpet 7
Rapture
Pre-Wrath
Vial 1
Vial 2
Vial 3
Vial 4
Vial 5
Vial 6
Armageddon
Vial 7
Marriage Supper

Study: Order of Events

and your support is where?

 

[peterT]

Order of Events:

Abomination Of Desolation
Great Tribulation
Trumpet 1
Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3
Trumpet 4
Trumpet 5
Trumpet 6
Heaven / Temple Opened
JESUS
Trumpet 7
Rapture
Pre-Wrath
Vial 1
Vial 2
Vial 3
Vial 4
Vial 5
Vial 6
Armageddon
Vial 7
Marriage Supper

Study: Order of Events

Sounds pretty good but the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is before the battle at Armageddon not after.

Rv19:7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

That was the Marriage Supper of the lamb. Then we return with him and make war and smite the nations to rule them with a rod of iron

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

 

[peterT]

Order of Events:

Abomination Of Desolation
Great Tribulation
Trumpet 1
Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3
Trumpet 4
Trumpet 5
Trumpet 6
Heaven / Temple Opened
JESUS
Trumpet 7
Rapture
Pre-Wrath
Vial 1
Vial 2
Vial 3
Vial 4
Vial 5
Vial 6
Armageddon
Vial 7
Marriage Supper

Study: Order of Events

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

There is no war when the sixth angel poured out his vial. Just a gathering of the kings, and all the wicked of the world at Armageddon, just a gathering of them together preparing for the battle of that great day of God Almighty

 

[GRA]

and your support is where?

Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21

 

[GRA]

Sounds pretty good but the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is before the battle at Armageddon not after.

"Guess again..."

The Marriage Supper is exactly and precisely that which is described in Revelation 19:17-18,21 :

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. ~ Revelation 19:17-18

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. ~ Revelation 19:19-20

And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. ~ Revelation 19:21

This - IS - the marriage supper - LITERALLY.

...not the table-and-chair-and-fine-silverware ceremony-in-heaven picture that most people imagine - and is the direct-outcome and end-result of the battle of Armageddon itself.

The 'Marriage of the Lamb' and the 'Marriage Supper' are NOT "ceremonies in heaven" - the essence and significance of them rests in the manner of the execution of the events that happen after Christ comes back. EVERYTHING that is connected to the 'Marriage of the Lamb' takes place "right here on / at / above / around planet earth" -- and is represented - not in ceremonies - but rather, events.

That was the Marriage Supper of the lamb.

NOPE. That was only an introductory reference to it.

Then we return with him and make war and smite the nations to rule them with a rod of iron

We do not return from anywhere - because we do not go anywhere. 'We' don't "make war" with anyone. Jesus does (righteously) - and it is He alone who will "smite the nations"...

There is no war when the sixth angel poured out his vial. Just a gathering of the kings, and all the wicked of the world at Armageddon, just a gathering of them together preparing for the battle of that great day of God Almighty

YEP - correct. Now zooooom to Revelation 19:19 to see what happens next...

 

[Anonimous]

Order of Events:

Abomination Of Desolation
Great Tribulation
Trumpet 1
Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3
Trumpet 4
Trumpet 5
Trumpet 6
Heaven / Temple Opened
JESUS
Trumpet 7
Rapture
Pre-Wrath
Vial 1
Vial 2
Vial 3
Vial 4
Vial 5
Vial 6
Armageddon
Vial 7
Marriage Supper

Study: Order of Events

The Great Tribulation. Is the Great Tribulation the last 3 1/2 years? The final trumpet (#7) is that the trumpet where Paul says at the last trump of jesus will descend...?" If this is the case than believers are not here for the wrath, but are here for at least the first 3 1/2 years? What starts the whole 7 year tribulation? I heard it was the 7 year treaty with Israel that is made or confirmed by the antichrist. Then half way is the Abomination of Desolation. Is that right?