Does Matthew 24 contain "Rapture Language"?

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AmmiAmmiel

Guest
#1
I recently conducted a personal study on the Olivet Discourse and Paul's Thesselonian letters. The similarity in language that Paul in 2 Thesselonians 2 and Christ in Matthew 24, are striking. I have strong reason to believe that Paul is a thallus drawin from Christ's teaching in Matthew 24 when he speaks to the Church.

The study came amidst a clouded conversation my father and I had about Eachatology, I prayed for clarity into these issues and I suddenly felt I'd gain some bennefit in reading the two passages once more. So as I did, I read in a way that I understood in a way that I previously had not. I noticed striking parallels between Matthew 24, Paul's Thesselonian letters and Revelation 6.

My intent for this thread is not to debate or argue. It is for study and discussion purposes only. I politely ask all users to refrain from Pre-conceived ideas when posting about this. Please present all biblical support for your position on the Eschatalogical "Parousia" of Christ, as I would be encouraged to take a look at it to furthe improve my understanding in these matters, thank you[:
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#2
I think Mt 24:30, 38-40 and 1Th 4:16-17 are pretty clear, and say it all.
 
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AmmiAmmiel

Guest
#3
Have you heard of Prewrath?
 
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AmmiAmmiel

Guest
#5
Well, if you believe Matthew 24 contains rapture language, I highly suggest researching the position.

I also know of a few great books on the subject that I can recommend[:
 
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Abiding

Guest
#6
the prewrath idea is for those who think God has poor eyesite.
And that He would have to take out His bride before the blood and guts.
But if that were true then theres alot to explain in church history,
especially to those reading thess. at the time who were getting martyred daily.
 
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ib4gzus

Guest
#7

Jesus’ ministry in Matthew-John was to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel”
(Mat 15:24).
His ministry to the circumcision confirmed the covenant promises to the nation Israel
(Rom 15:8).
Nowhere in these books do we find the mystery information later revealed by the Lord Jesus to Paul.
This includes Matthew 24 where Jesus tells his chosen judges of the twelve tribes about the “sign of his coming”.
We know from the context that Jesus is still speaking to his covenant people according to prophecy. None of the events in Matthew 24 are written for our participation.

Here are some clues that we do not fit in this audience.

Salvation by Enduring
In Matthew 24 salvation is received through endurance (Mat 24:13).
Yet, salvation today in the dispensation of God’s grace does not depend on our endurance through tribulation. It rests solely upon the finished work of Christ and provides salvation now.
SEE THE DIFFERENCE.
“And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.” – Rom 5:11

Gospel of the Kingdom
God’s message to covenant Israel in Matt-John
was that the Messiah had arrived and the promised kingdom was coming (Mark 1:14-15).

This is different from God’s message of GRACE concerning the free
justification and reconciliation that he provides by the blood of Christ.

In Matthew 24:14 they are preaching the prophetic gospel of the kingdom.


This would not be the mystery gospel of the cross that Paul preaches.

Paul's Gospel was this:
fjgjgj.jpg
The twelve tribes did not know the mystery gospel which had not been revealed yet.
 

Attachments

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Anonimous

Guest
#8
I think the main idea and goal of us all is to be sure of where we stand before God. If we are sure and confident of our relationship with Him then whatever happens and whenever it happens we will be able to stand firm. IF we are taen out then good. BUT, IF not, then we need to know whom we have believed in. It's easy to say now....we're not being rounded and or persecuted yet. It's not a metter of IF anymore but a matter of WHEN this begins. I would rather be prepared than caught off guard. We will have to make a final decision concerning what is more dear to us. This temporary life or eternal life. Ultimately, what God will do is in His time and according to His will.

[SUP] "[/SUP]Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown." Rev 2:10
 
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nathan3

Guest
#9
Matthew 24, as well as, Luke 21, and Mark 13, are all talking about the same thing.

In Matthew 24: The subject is Christ return ( Matthew 24:3 ) Also, Deception Antichrist/Satan (verses: 4, 5 ) Delivered to Death : as recorded in ( Mark 13:12 ) , aka the Devil (Hebrews 2:14) aka Satan (Rev 12:9) : ( Matthew 24: 10 )...

The Desolator ( Matthew 24:15 ) standing where""" he""" ought not, the holy place.( Jerusalem ) Same one standing in the holy place ( claiming to be God ) in 2nd Thess. 2: Taught by Paul... The same one that looks as a Lamb, but spake as the Dragon ( Rev 13: 11-14 ) Warning after warning . etc etc etc.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#10
Gives you the location where the Desolator will be-( Matthew 24: 16 )

After'', verse 16: then your that close to the end-( verse 17-18 )


You were found with child -Verse 19:- because you were = verse 4 - 5 ) cause ( Matthew 25:5 ) you where found Not; to be a ( 2 Corinthians 11:2) for the True return of the ( Mark 2:19-20 )

False harvest- ( Verse 20 ), because harvest is always ( Jeremiah 8:20 ), this happened because of ( verse 5 ).

verse 21 ( not since the creation nor ever shall be )


He restates the subject : ( verses 23, & 24 )

Verse 25 -( the prophecy is sure. )...


Warning not to fall in the deception (verse 26 )....


" Immediately after the tribulation "-(verse 29)

Christ return ( verse 30 ) in order to ( Zechariah 14:4; Acts 1:9-14) He shall take the Throne of David (Isaiah 9:6-7; Luke 1:32-33) & rule on earth for the prophetic -( future ) thousand years known as the millennium (Revelation 20:4 Zechariah 14:9


Same repeated order of events given in ; 2 Thess 2:, by Paul.


Paul revealing more in 1 Thess 4 as to ( the mystery of the change : Subject verse 13 ) given also in 1 Cor 15: 51,52 ) same as ( 1 thess 4: 16-17) just in different wording ) the wording, or translation giving rise to confusion, and the rapture is incerted into the wording of verses 16-17

etc etc etc
 
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nathan3

Guest
#11
- for my notes, I used a ( king James version ) they may not be readable ,possibly , if using another translation to read my notes.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#12
their not perfect, their a bit slopy, but i think its helps out a little.
 
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AmmiAmmiel

Guest
#14
My position is not shaken. I'm firm and adamant that Christ's answer to His Disciples in Matthew 24 is applicable to the Church as well as the nation of Israel. To say its exclusively addressed to Israel is to limit the Divine answer that was given. When He speaks of the "Elect", what exactly is bein portrayed?
 
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AmmiAmmiel

Guest
#16
Gives you the location where the Desolator will be-( Matthew 24: 16 )

After'', verse 16: then your that close to the end-( verse 17-18 )


You were found with child -Verse 19:- because you were = verse 4 - 5 ) cause ( Matthew 25:5 ) you where found Not; to be a ( 2 Corinthians 11:2) for the True return of the ( Mark 2:19-20 )

False harvest- ( Verse 20 ), because harvest is always ( Jeremiah 8:20 ), this happened because of ( verse 5 ).

verse 21 ( not since the creation nor ever shall be )


He restates the subject : ( verses 23, & 24 )

Verse 25 -( the prophecy is sure. )...


Warning not to fall in the deception (verse 26 )....


" Immediately after the tribulation "-(verse 29)

Christ return ( verse 30 ) in order to ( Zechariah 14:4; Acts 1:9-14) He shall take the Throne of David (Isaiah 9:6-7; Luke 1:32-33) & rule on earth for the prophetic -( future ) thousand years known as the millennium (Revelation 20:4 Zechariah 14:9


Same repeated order of events given in ; 2 Thess 2:, by Paul.


Paul revealing more in 1 Thess 4 as to ( the mystery of the change : Subject verse 13 ) given also in 1 Cor 15: 51,52 ) same as ( 1 thess 4: 16-17) just in different wording ) the wording, or translation giving rise to confusion, and the rapture is incerted into the wording of verses 16-17

etc etc etc
I think the confusion comes from a faulty understandin of the word Parousia used by Paul and Christ. Parousia is the same exact word, with the same exact meaning in both Matthew 24 and Paul's letters, specifically to the thesselonian Church, and is never used by anyone but Matthew and Paul. Parousia in Greek means "one's coming (of a royal decent) and continual presence. I believe Paul is drawin his teaching from Matthew 24. The context in both passages are so clear and harmonized[: Each teaching sheds light on the other because they are both about the same thing, The Parousia of Christ.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#17
I think the confusion comes from a faulty understandin of the word Parousia used by Paul and Christ. Parousia is the same exact word, with the same exact meaning in both Matthew 24 and Paul's letters, specifically to the thesselonian Church, and is never used by anyone but Matthew and Paul. Parousia in Greek means "one's coming (of a royal decent) and continual presence. I believe Paul is drawin his teaching from Matthew 24. The context in both passages are so clear and harmonized[: Each teaching sheds light on the other because they are both about the same thing, The Parousia of Christ.
What? what word is Paraousia ?
 

willfollowsGod

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2011
1,515
66
48
33
#18
Definition3952. parousia, par-oo-see'-ah; from the pres. part. of G3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; spec. of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by impl.) phys. aspect:--coming, presence. (Source: Word Study on "Parousia")


As for the pre-wrath, I hold to that view as well used to not though. That is a long story and very complicated. A book that helped me to understand a lot of the rapture views and the prewrath view was the book by Marvin Rosenthal called The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church. Just trying to help a fellow believer in Christ understand what that word parousia means. The word in Matthew 24 that is parousia is the word ''coming.'' God bless.
 
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AmmiAmmiel

Guest
#19
Thank you will[: that book was the first one my Dad had me read when I became interested in Eschatology. That was 3 years ago and ever since then I study that (among many other things) daily[: you should look into a book coming out soon by Alan Kurachner called Prewrath: Antichrist before the Day of The Lord. I am anticipatin the day it is published, as I will be the first to read it[:
 
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nathan3

Guest
#20
I think im going to laps into a sleepy sleep