Did the thief on the cross skipped baptisim to be saved?

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BishopSEH

Guest
#21
richie_2uk,

As you are likely aware the conversation around baptism is wide and contentious. Each person holding to what they themselves were taught and reading the Scriptures in light of that. In my circles we call this reading through traditional glasses. Instead of reading what the Scripture say and viewing the tradition through those eyes, people read the Scriptures with the slant of tradition. If this were not true we would have only one church and one body. As it stands we have one very hurt and barely functional body with many churches.

So in light of this lets try to unpack baptism a bit and see what the bible teaches:

Baptism is like a wedding ring. We put on a wedding ring as a symbol of our commitment and devotion. In the same way baptism is a picture of devotion and commitment to Christ. A wedding ring reminds us and tells others that we belong to someone special. In the same way, baptism reminds us and others that we are devoted to Christ and belong to Him.


The purpose of baptism is to give visual testimony of our commitment to Christ. It is the first step of discipleship (Acts 8:26-39).

According to Romans 6:1-10, baptism pictures at least three things:

First, baptism is a picture of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. As we stand in the water we are representing Christ on the cross. As we are dipped underwater we illustrate the burial of Christ. As we come out of the water we demonstrate the resurrection of Christ.

Second, baptism is a personal testimony to us of the washing away of our sins. As we go under the water we reconfirm that our sins are forgiven and as we come out of the water we are resurrected to live a new life in Christ.

Third, baptism represents our personal identification with Christ. Paul declared in Romans 6:3-4 “We were buried with Christ in baptism and we are raised to walk in a new life" as forgiven followers of Christ empowered by the Spirit of God.

Being sprinkled or having water poured over your head when you were an infant, or too young to understand, missed the point of baptism on all three levels.

Why? Because the Bible teaches that commitment to Christ always precedes baptism. In fact, baptism is your testimony of surrendering your life to Christ. The New Testament order is not be baptized and then receive Christ. It is always first you receive Christ and then you get baptized. If you were not aware of submitting to the Lordship of Christ then it is impossible to think of your baptism as a personal commitment to Christ.

It is now important to be baptized as an adult. I recommend that you proceed with Biblical baptism as soon as possible.

Remember, baptism never washes away sins; the blood of Jesus washes away sins.

Perhaps you are wondering where infant baptism originated. Let me give you a brief overview of the source and the evolution of infant baptism. In essence, infant baptism arose from the teachings of some early second and third century church fathers that baptism washed away sin. This meant that if you died without being baptized then you died with your sins unforgiven and thus went to Hell (or purgatory as that concept developed over time). With the high infant mortality rate in the early centuries, the concept of baptizing babies as soon as possible came into vogue. Since it is not necessarily good to push baby heads underwater, the idea of sprinkling took hold.

The Greek word for “baptism” is “βαπτιζω". The English letters look like this: "baptidzo." The word does not mean “sprinkle or “pour”. The Greek word "baptidzo" literally means to “dip” or to “immerse”. For example, when Odysseus was escaping from the Cyclops he took a stick and “baptized” the stick into the eye of the Cyclops. He did not sprinkle it in. He fully immersed it in.

The early translators of the Bible from Latin into English faced a problem with how to translate the Greek word, "baptidzo". If they translated the word as "immerse" a firestorm would erupt because most of the church practiced sprinkling and not full immersion.

To understand the cultural and religious implication, think of the Anabaptists who were persecuted mercilessly (including death) for practicing baptism by immersion.

So, instead of translating the word, the early translators transliterated the word by simply taking the Greek letters and transposing them into English. The word “baptism” was not translated as "immersion," it was transliterate as "baptize". Crisis was averted and the early Bibles in English were less likely to be offensive to some and outright rejected by others.

You may find it interesting that early writings from some 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] century Christian desert communities dealt with the practical issues of baptism. They taught that if not enough water existed for full immersion then pouring on the head was acceptable. If not enough water existed for pouring then sprinkling was acceptable. And, if water was in really short supply then sand may be used. This practice was expedient and probably necessary.

On the other hand, the Ethiopian eunuch surrendered his life to Christ as he was riding in the desert reading the scroll of Isaiah. He didn't choose to be baptized by sand. He waited until he found a body of water large enough for immersion (Acts 8). There is no record that any babies or children were ever baptized in this manner. These were all adults.

Throughout the years of the Church, baptism by immersion has taken several forms. Some baptize by dipping three times in the “Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Others use the Jewish model for baptizing Gentile converts into Judaism. The initiates wear white robes and are dipped three times forward and three times backward. The most common mode of baptism is once backward to portray the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

In Christ,

Bishop SEH
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#22
Never said it negates the ordinance I was pointing out how everybody who is in Christ is baptized into Christ including the thief on the cross and everyone else who had died accepting Christ but was not immerse in water.
Do you know what "baptism" actually means?
 
Jan 10, 2013
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#23
I don't think he was baptized . It does not stipulate . All we know is Christ saves, and it was on Christ word that He said, today your going to be with Me in paradise. So I have to take it just like Christ says it there.
Actually it's a common term of the time
He said "I say to you today; you will be with me in paradise"

Bear in mind paradise is the garden (the word means the garden) and that is to be on earth when Christ returns.

So the assumed comma is the bias of some silly man in the past (there is no punctuation in the original text).
When we die - we are GONE.

Until the resurrection - when all (some say all who knew of God as the Bible suggests that) will come back to life to be judged.

If people go to heaven when they die, then there would be no resurrection.

What is the Bible and Jesus talking about the final resurrection of all for judgment?
Paul says to deny the resurrection is to not be a Christian, doesn't he?
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#24
Uh... isn't the wedding ring USUALLY received at the time of the WEDDING?????
 
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hermanodaniel

Guest
#25
Do you know what "baptism" actually means?
yes it means to be submerged and this is what actually takes place when we believe we are IN Christ after that. This is a spiritual and physical but if someone did not have the opportunity to do the physical it doesn't mean that they are not saved what matters is the actual moment they believed and were justified IN Christ. Romans 6:1-4
 
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BishopSEH

Guest
#26
Uh... isn't the wedding ring USUALLY received at the time of the WEDDING?????
Today yes but when the practice of the use of wedding rings was first began they were given at betrothal and not the wedding day. The idea of the "engagement ring" is, in the span of history, ultra modern. Good question though.

Also it is good to remember that no human analogy will perfect cover a heavenly precept. My use of the wedding ring was to illustrate the degree of commitment that baptism requires. Of course in a wedding we here the words, Until death do you part, whereas in joining with Christ death in the flesh only deepens the relationship between you and your Savior.

In Christ,

Bishop SEH
 
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richie_2uk

Guest
#27
Wow so many views on this subject. I guess there is many things in the bible we don't and wont understand fully, and I guess its the mysteries will give us the eagerness to just to trust God in what he says in his word. I think its good that we can ask questions regarding events, or about the bible in general. But it all comes down, that we will never ever know everything about the bible and the mysteries it holds until Jesus Comes back. The question I asked originally, was purely one of those questions I ask in the spare of the moment, even though I kind of knew and believe in the bible. But its great to hear what other people think, and how you Interpret it. Thank you once again. if you want to carry on this thread, feel free to. But Please not to fight or argue or even take offence or lose friendship through a disagreement. In which I have seen on few occasions. God bless everyone.
 
Nov 22, 2012
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#28
In the bible as we know that we are to be baptised to be saved. yet at the cross/stake were Jesus and the thief were, The thief was not baptised yet Jesus said to him today he will be in paradise. So did Jesus let one slip sort to say? Please before you answer this question? I mean this question not to stir Doubt, or to stir up fall outs and cause many to argue. As we have seen in previous chat rooms. This is a question that recently came to my head, and I would apprieciate anyone who can elaborate on the question. Thank you! God Bless.
Hello Walles man in a search for the truth.As u know,whith splitting of the Church 1054year on the West side of world has been modified many many things with R Catholicism.After an religion revolution with Luther,in stead that all changed canons and dogmas back to ORIGINAL stage,it has been given to everyone to interpretate Bible the God Word by his own sinful fallible will out of truth of the Holy Spirit.
One's,i was searched for an answer on the same question,but as u can see in my signature i am Orthodox Christian from east Europe.And i have founded it!And of course,maybe u won't like it,or agree,but the things are like they are and they won't be ever changed.If u want to understand answer which is in perfect sense with the Bible,then u have to understand what is Orthodox Church and meaning of Orthodoxy.
Brother in Christ,i am waiting for your answer,because i won't write to argue with Protestants,but to show the unchanged TRUTH of almost 2000years.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#29
yes it means to be submerged and this is what actually takes place when we believe we are IN Christ after that. This is a spiritual and physical but if someone did not have the opportunity to do the physical it doesn't mean that they are not saved what matters is the actual moment they believed and were justified IN Christ. Romans 6:1-4
Who do you think Paul is talking to in this chapter?
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#30
If people go to heaven when they die, then there would be no resurrection.

? When you die, right away you return to God would gave your soul' Paul states. That is the resurrection. What do you think its called when you die and go to heaven ? It is called the resurrection too.. And your forgetting who is making the statement : Christ"; said, today. That is that.
 
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richie_2uk

Guest
#32
Geometar thank you for your insight and your reply to this subject. First I want to say it is not that I was searching, because deep down I knew the answer. and I think its the same with everyone else in the world. However asking a question that relates to the bible in a non searching aspect. Does not mean I or who ever is protestant to other religions. Nor that it means that I was trying to change anything what the Lord Jesus has or is saying in his true word. I wouldn't even think to try change anything what the word says, as Some religions has done for many years. Its simple with me, what it says I believe. what it tells, I Try to do, yes I try, and through trying, I am learning each and every day to listen and to do the will of God. But there are days were questions will arise, not to doubt, not to cause friction not to lead the wrong way, not to deceive many into disbelief, its just questions that comes to mind. and Like I said in my last messages, it was a question I knew the answer to deep down, But I wanted to put the question out there for a good hearted discussion. and as for Catholicism, whether orthodox, or what ever type of Catholicism church religion beliefs you are. I believe in the gospels. I believe Jesus when he says not to make images or idols, I believe Jesus when he says not to call anyone on earth father, as there is only one father. and the list goes on in the bible. This is not a judgement but answer from me personally. God bless Geometar.
 
Nov 22, 2012
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#33
I do respect your answer on my post Richie and i do respect your views on all things of our Holy Faith.That is your personally thing and free will.But i cannot agree with it.However that this isn't an answer on your question and we are going away from the topic.
I will give u an answer with no doubts on all next questions.However hard u look and search answer on this or any other questions u won't found it out of the True Church.It can be just one answer and Truth as Church of Christ is One.Do not have any doubts in it.
 
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richie_2uk

Guest
#34
I respect you to Geometar. again thanks for your insight and your help of explanation, you believe in what you feel right for you personally, and I know I believe in the one true God that has saved me when he went to the cross/stake which ever you believe. Thank you all too for your comments and replies God bless you all.
 
Nov 22, 2012
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#35
So,which one is your answer on your question?
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#36
well then wouldn't it just be appropriate to say... baptism is likened to the engagement ring??? Especially since the scripture indicates there are wheat and tares... so making baptism the wedding ring would be like some get a divorce certificate at the wedding ceremony. An engagement is the nearest equivalent as betrothal... both can be broken. Sorta helps to use like things for analogies so people don't get the wrong idea... dontchya think?
 
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richie_2uk

Guest
#37
Well Geometar. See what the bible say, I cant give accounts or give my own discernment or answer according to my own thoughts. Ask Jesus himself, ask the bible. your question was: Where is the bath for forgiveness of sins? well I cant assume or agree with you, just respect your answer and your question. But I am not going to make answers to any questions that I don't fully understand. if that question comes up in my life, then I wil ask Jesus himself. God Bless Geometar.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
588
113
#38
Baptism in water is NOT necessary for a person to be saved, it is faith in the Lord Jesus that saves us, in the sacrifice of Himself upon the Cross, the shedding of His blood, to make atonement for that individual's sin and His Resurrection out from amongst the dead for our justification...Acts 2v21, 20v28, Rom 3v25, 4v25, 5v9, Eph 1v7, Col 1v14,20, 1Peter 1v18,19. You can find a short study on baptism in water Here
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,312
1,039
113
#39
I think its quite clear. Jesus said ''I tell you this day you will be with me in paradise'' Jesus didnt lie did he? uhh,,,no
 
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richie_2uk

Guest
#40
God Bless everyone. As far as I'm concerned the thread is open for you all to discuss. as for me I have my answer and I am closing myself to this thread. But feel free to carry on this thread. Thank you God Bless all.