C
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gcZSWSoa10&feature=player_embedded
Id love to hear others thoughts on this
Id love to hear others thoughts on this
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Well all I can say we all have some sort of background and have done things wrong (some greater then others). But if God can use Moses who murdered a man and David who murdered a man and took commited adultry. Then this man can be a leader also. I just pray that the pastor knows thoes who labor amomg him.
Heres the thing... there was a condition that he not be in leadership in a church. this leads me to believe that perhaps he abused his leadership power in the church before (i'm pretty sure God wont bless that!). He sodomized a boy. that in no way is a man who could be found "blameless". sure, go to the church but definitely do not ordaine this man as he is not blameless. Perhaps they should ask the boy who he so viciously sodomized. Sorry, I know this doesnt sound like a good passive accept all people christian attitude, but I also dont think murderers or thieves or rapists should be heading our churches as they are put in a position of trust and authority and should be blameless. There is not one of us who is righteous this is true but I think the church should use discretion in putting a sex offender in an authoritive position within the Church. follow this guy, i'll bet we've yet to see the last of him & i'm willing to bet he will re-offend. I was hurt as a child and the very thought that that man would be in a position of power in a Church makes my skin crawl. I've finally come to a point where i pray for him to receive the Lord & thats awesome, but i wouldnt want him anywhere near my Children in any setting.
my point was that they mentioned the church... this would indicate prior involvement with the Church and implies a knowledge of the will of God and the deliberate defiance and submission to satan over God. Definitely not the person we want in leadership in the church. Now if he didnt know God and came to the Lord later I'd say great... but still DO NOT be in leadership or authoritive position... whether its the Church, a rec centre, a boyscout camp... whatever... he gets ordained then moves and has no accountability this is a receipe for disaster & let me tell you if I was that pastor who supports him, i wouldnt want an innocence lost on my conscience because I in any way allowed or supported this. In my opinion the people who support this are partially responsible for the result be it good or be it bad. & did you truly look in the eyes of that man as he was being interviewed? I think he needs to get rid of a couple of demons and then be happy with Church attendance and not need to be in Church authority. Anyway, I truly hope I'm wrong. but this is a victims perspective.
K
I completely disagree. I do not think this man should be put in a place of leadership.
1.) First from a biblical standpoint, he does not qualify. (1 Timothy 3)
He has only been a christian for a year and a half and he is a convicted child molester.
1 Timothy 3:6 & 7 states that an overseer must not be a recent convert and he must also have a good reputation with outsiders.
(I can hear the dissent now, bringing up Paul. Paul spent 3 years (Galatians 1:18) getting to know God before he went into full time ministry.)
2.) Second from a practical stand point, sexual offenders have a "craving disorder". This is not something that goes away easily. This man needs to be proven free in order to be put in a place of leadership. A year and a half is not enough- sodomizing a little boy is a very serious crime and "52 percent of diagnosed pedophiles who molested boys committed another sex crime." The risk is incredibly high.
Would I welcome this man to church? Yes. Would I make him a leader after only a year and a half? Never.
1.) First from a biblical standpoint, he does not qualify. (1 Timothy 3)
He has only been a christian for a year and a half and he is a convicted child molester.
1 Timothy 3:6 & 7 states that an overseer must not be a recent convert and he must also have a good reputation with outsiders.
(I can hear the dissent now, bringing up Paul. Paul spent 3 years (Galatians 1:18) getting to know God before he went into full time ministry.)
2.) Second from a practical stand point, sexual offenders have a "craving disorder". This is not something that goes away easily. This man needs to be proven free in order to be put in a place of leadership. A year and a half is not enough- sodomizing a little boy is a very serious crime and "52 percent of diagnosed pedophiles who molested boys committed another sex crime." The risk is incredibly high.
Would I welcome this man to church? Yes. Would I make him a leader after only a year and a half? Never.
R
I was looking for that passage, thank you. I agree with Kyra. YES there is grace. YES we all have our own record of sins. But time and Scripture is against this man. Even after 5 years of being saved, I don't consider myself in a place to qualify as a credentialed minister. And if I had been in a place of ministry over ANYONE after my first year and a half of being saved, it would have been a dangerous thing.
I would like to know how he can become an ordained minister after such a short time, because in my church, the Assembly of God church, that is simply not possible. That title is NOT EVER taken lightly and is NOT given lightly in any means. There are multiple, rigorous, highly beneficial and necessary steps one has to take before receiving such a title. I also would like to know how this one minister gets to decide the man's eligibility. There are many different boards that are involved in this decision in my church.
I pray wisdom and discernment for this church. They need not take this decision lightly. There's something dangerous about going on a "feeling". I don't think one should decide to become a minister because of a "feeling" that it is right, or because of a leaning toward doing such things. I believe it should be a calling. I hope I'm not the only one who believes this way.
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Rissa, Kyra, well done girls! You are well schooled. Boy! does people need a wake-up! God never cahnges. Remember this!!!!!He does not change, and He will never change. If you change perfection, which He is, you make it imperfect! That is as solid as His Rock, His Word! Jesus Christ is the only Way!
Ok! Now! If we say we are all sinners, and nobidy is perfect, we say that not a single one of us can even become a deacon. let alone an elder or a minister! A deacon should have these qualities: 1 Tim 3... 9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
This is what God would accept! And look....
12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife And all these qualities should be tested!
This is for the lowest rank in the structure of the governing body of the church of God! Even the members, that are being served by these deacons elders and ministers, need to be holy! How holy? Well as there is no degree to holiness it has to be as holy as God! 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
If i believe God has a church here on earth i have to believe that He would stock it with people that are qualified in HIS eyes! As Jesus is the Sole Maintainer of His church(Body) He does the appointments! And he will NEVER appoint a person wrongfully! If he says that a deacon should hold the mysterie of faith on a pure concience, thaen Jesus would have revealed the mysteries to him and cleaned his concience. Likewise with the bishops (elders) Apt to teach!!! WOW! this apt to teach is three little words, but if you take the whole Bible into review on what does make a man apt to teach, it puts these men in ;ine with all the teachers God used! They were all exactly as qualified as Jesus! Why? Because He made them qualified! No system, set out by men, to rehibilitate. A system Designed and Maintained by GOD HIMSELF, to enpower them with His Spirit!
All God's teachers teach HIM! He does the teaching, not them! GOd is the only Teacher. If a teacher does not look exactly like Jesus in actions and works, he is not from God!!! Wkae up people! Study the Word! And Wise up!
Ok! Now! If we say we are all sinners, and nobidy is perfect, we say that not a single one of us can even become a deacon. let alone an elder or a minister! A deacon should have these qualities: 1 Tim 3... 9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
This is what God would accept! And look....
12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife And all these qualities should be tested!
This is for the lowest rank in the structure of the governing body of the church of God! Even the members, that are being served by these deacons elders and ministers, need to be holy! How holy? Well as there is no degree to holiness it has to be as holy as God! 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
If i believe God has a church here on earth i have to believe that He would stock it with people that are qualified in HIS eyes! As Jesus is the Sole Maintainer of His church(Body) He does the appointments! And he will NEVER appoint a person wrongfully! If he says that a deacon should hold the mysterie of faith on a pure concience, thaen Jesus would have revealed the mysteries to him and cleaned his concience. Likewise with the bishops (elders) Apt to teach!!! WOW! this apt to teach is three little words, but if you take the whole Bible into review on what does make a man apt to teach, it puts these men in ;ine with all the teachers God used! They were all exactly as qualified as Jesus! Why? Because He made them qualified! No system, set out by men, to rehibilitate. A system Designed and Maintained by GOD HIMSELF, to enpower them with His Spirit!
All God's teachers teach HIM! He does the teaching, not them! GOd is the only Teacher. If a teacher does not look exactly like Jesus in actions and works, he is not from God!!! Wkae up people! Study the Word! And Wise up!
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Oh all the red in my post is straight from the Bible!And here is anther one.... if we are all sinners, no wonder we recieve not when we ask and pray! Look here!... John 9:31...
31Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
What is the shortes verse that depicts God's will?...I would say MAtthew 5:48.....48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
The God of Love and Fairness would never have uttered these words if it was not possible!
Thank You Lord, You are truly POWERFUL! Amen!
31Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
What is the shortes verse that depicts God's will?...I would say MAtthew 5:48.....48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
The God of Love and Fairness would never have uttered these words if it was not possible!
Thank You Lord, You are truly POWERFUL! Amen!
I can't believe how many disagree, how many leader are in churches across the world have that have done terrible crimes. If we say we believe God can forgive and save yet we so often we forget to do the same. There is no leader or church member who has not done wrong. We all got another chance so why can't he. Our thoughts should be to sending prayers for him to the Father to keep him and protect his mind.
G
WOW...talk about judging a person!...from your post it appears that you still have huge resentment/bitterness and unforgiveness bound up in your heart...let it go as it will only be a stumbling block to you and the people around you.
Do we really know this guy?...can we really make such judgments about his standing with God?..do we, from this little clip now fully understand what God may want to do with this man?..I think not
God bless
Do we really know this guy?...can we really make such judgments about his standing with God?..do we, from this little clip now fully understand what God may want to do with this man?..I think not
God bless
H
I hate what that man has done, but having been a non-christian myself, and having done things i regret and am ashamed of (nothing to that caliber in societies eyes, but just as bad in God's), all I can say is people do change, and can change. God is a powerful thing, the Holy Spirit works in ways we can never even begin to imagine. We ordain liars, we ordain adulterers, we ordain all sorts of sinners, so why not one who has repented? It's hard, because we are human and full of fear and apprehension, to look past a person's crimes and see that they want to change. The hardest part is being let down so many other times by people like him who say they have repented and who fall back into their sins, to keep on hoping, and keep on having faith that this person could change and won't be like the rest who sinned again.
We have to remember forgiveness the same way God does. He never puts a limit on how many times He'll forgive you, as long as you are trying and repent. I've done the same sin over and over and over and over again, but through practice, I have been able to keep from that sin 99.9 percent of the time. God forgave me, and if I mess up, and try harder, he'll forgive me again. He doesn't even remember those other times because he forgave me.
People do horrible, disgusting, revolting things...but people also do miraculous, amazing, and completely mind-boggling things, too. If this man changed, then why not let him do what the Holy Spirit is guiding him to do. If he hasn't, and he abuses someone again...then God will give him justice.
We have to remember forgiveness the same way God does. He never puts a limit on how many times He'll forgive you, as long as you are trying and repent. I've done the same sin over and over and over and over again, but through practice, I have been able to keep from that sin 99.9 percent of the time. God forgave me, and if I mess up, and try harder, he'll forgive me again. He doesn't even remember those other times because he forgave me.
People do horrible, disgusting, revolting things...but people also do miraculous, amazing, and completely mind-boggling things, too. If this man changed, then why not let him do what the Holy Spirit is guiding him to do. If he hasn't, and he abuses someone again...then God will give him justice.
so, if he reoffends while in his position of church authority that all of you so eagerly embrace and accept would you be willing to accept responsiblity for supporting this? seriously, this is a serious offense. It is not about unforgiveness, it is not about Gods forgiveness which i'm sure if he's truly repented he will receive... it is about allowing a known sodomizer to be a MINISTER... are you kidding me right now. shakes head in disbelief at the absolute ignorance and blatant disregard for the innocence of the Children who are to be protected not victimized within the church. I think you all need to visualize your childs face... have them sodomized in your mind.... then decide that person should be a minister... Only God & his victims can truly give him forgiveness but he absolutely has no right to be in a position of authority in the Church. Once again I say watch him... betchya he reoffends, i only say this cause of what I could see in his eyes... HOpe i'm wrong! believe me i hope i'm wrong.
G
So from looking into his eyes, which is a bit difficult with a small utube screen, you can now make an honest judgment of his soul?....what about Smith Wiggelsworth, have you seen him? to anyone who does not know of his ministry one would think that he is no ways a Christian but look what mighty works the Lord done through him, so one just cannot assume because his eyes "look" sinister or whatever that he has a ton of demons..c'mon be real. Just think for a moment (and I'm by no ways condoning what he's done or taking his side) of his situation, a convicted child molester, now sitting in front of these huge cameras with spot lights in his face knowing that millions of people are watching and condemning him....I think even if you had nothing to be ashamed of you too would look like a deer in headlights in front of TV cameras
like I said I never condoned or take his side...God will be the judge, if he has truly repented and and asked for forgiveness, our Heavenly Father will forgive him JUST AS IF IT NEVER HAPPENED, that is the awesome power of His Grace and it is not for us to judge, if he does it again or is not sincere God WILL sought him out.
like I said I never condoned or take his side...God will be the judge, if he has truly repented and and asked for forgiveness, our Heavenly Father will forgive him JUST AS IF IT NEVER HAPPENED, that is the awesome power of His Grace and it is not for us to judge, if he does it again or is not sincere God WILL sought him out.
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