Signing on the dotted line______Church Membership.

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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#21
the church i go to doesn't make members sign anything...but they do have to go in front of the church and formally accept the church's teachings and such...
 
Jan 11, 2013
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#22
Church membership is normally about church governance, not just to show that you are there. Having well ordered governance is important in any organization. There's nothing particularly scriptural or anti-scriptural about it. It is however important to have good governemnt if you want to have good stewardship, and good stewardship is scriptural.
 
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danschance

Guest
#23
1) Not sure about many, but some churches are in fact spiritual death traps with false doctrine and "pharisees" running the show.

2) Modern day churches have little in common with the way the early church operated in the book of Acts. When was the last time your church saw a miracle? When was the last time your church cast a demon out?

3) Most modern day churches consume all or most of all the offerings received. Many pastors are paid in excess of $80K per year. Doesn't that make your blood boil? Ever ask your pastor how much he gets paid? Ever get the urge to cast out those "money changers"?

4) Most churches sing songs right before collecting the offerings because that is when most people feel the best and are more generous. Sad, ain't it?

5) Would your church allow Saint Paul to partake of communion? He had a prison record and was constantly in trouble with the law. He was apparently a bum taking on odd jobs like tent making and taking hand outs. I bet he would drive the pharisees and hypocrites in your church into a full blown tizzy. Or would he have to first sign and be in agreement with your churches statement of faith? Years ago I went to visit my father and attended his church but was denied to partake of communion because I had not been interviewed by the head pharisee on what I believed.

I understand that they are attempting to make sure that no one partakes of communion unworthily and this is scriptural.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#25
attended his church but was denied to partake of communion because I had not been interviewed by the head pharisee on what I believed.

I understand that they are attempting to make sure that no one partakes of communion unworthily and this is scriptural.
oh....head pharisee.
but it's scriptural.
k.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
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#26
What are your thoughts on Church membership?...the kind where you sign on the dottted line.
Does it have Scriptural backing?
When in history did it start up?
Is being faithful in attendance and participation just as good a criterea to be a member?
Your thoughts.
Is it something Jesus did ?
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#27
Is baptism enough to be a member ?
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#28
Content driven ministry. I went through Shape. It’s required as part of the membership orientation process to becoming a member of Saddleback Church. The problem at Saddleback isn’t the Shape process. Their Shape framework is great and they do a great job with it.

The problem is that Saddleback operates as a flat unidirectional organization and appears to be in denial of it. Content, programs, communications, etc… all flow from the top downward with little interaction from users.

So, the result is that at the end of the Shape process when you sit with a Shape counselor, the goal is simply to fit your shape profile into their inflexible unidirectional organization.

For example, the result of my Shape profile was toward creating innovative economic solutions for the marketplace based on scriptural principles that would positively affect society, political systems, and expand Christendom. They completely ignored my Shape profile and told me to go to a park and witness to Muslims because that was what the organization was engaged in at that time and they were unwilling to ask God about the possibilities of the result of my Shape profile and how that might be exercised inside and/or outside the organization. Their cast is set.

A complete disconnect. A few people at the top determine the content, programs, and missions and then push the iron cast they create downwards capturing as much of the plaster as they can into the cast and squishing the rest of it out. People like me got squished out because we didn’t fit the iron cast a few people at the very top created. It’s the same with their content. Other than a feedback card you can fill out, which doesn’t go anywhere, no real interaction.

I watched a man deform and deteriorate during the ’40 Days of Love’ content push completely ignored by all staff, leaders, and members of the church. Imagine being poor and being suddenly struck with serious rheumatoid arthritis and watching your hands deform as 40 Days of Love was pushed at you. When he told the small group leaders that something really bad was happening to him, he was ignored and told to mind the content. Really? Mind the content?

Eventually the man just walked away taking his new problems elsewhere. Now this was a committed single Christian man who worked hard his entire life for decades before being wiped out completely in the Great Recession. I was able to retrieve this individual and help him find county medical care and he is now stabilized. But one hand is terribly deformed and ruined for life and that could have been completely avoided if the organization was flexible enough to encourage their leaders to actually be interactive as Christian men and women. But they don’t. Just read 40 Days of Love and deform unnecessarily into a cripple. I’ll ignore that in you because I am accountable to God for pushing this content developed by a few at the very top onto you more than interacting with you in the way Christ said to. Crazy thing was they actually included the parable of the Good Samaritan in their content.

Why have an elaborate Shape model if it’s going to be used in an organizational and communication structure that tosses out most people’s Shape result? Better to just call out the programs you need volunteers for and have the ushers get the names and phone numbers of people who raise their hands in the assembly… lol. Saves time and money.

Content driven ministry. Does some good but not near what the propaganda of the content driven ministries claim.

Purpose Driven stuff.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
#29
I think "membership" is probably vital for very small assemblies and pointless for large ones. IF you want to swear allegiance to a denomination... then that would also mean membership. tho I attend one... I gave grown to be very disheartened by corporately run churches but have not found a smaller assembly to fellowship in.
 
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cooterhein

Guest
#30
1) Not sure about many, but some churches are in fact spiritual death traps with false doctrine and "pharisees" running the show.
Any particular country that's doing especially bad? How about countries that are doing especially well?

2) Modern day churches have little in common with the way the early church operated in the book of Acts. When was the last time your church saw a miracle? When was the last time your church cast a demon out?
Miracles- not during a service or anything. It has been awhile, though, yeah. Demons- no exorcisms recently.

3) Most modern day churches consume all or most of all the offerings received. Many pastors are paid in excess of $80K per year. Doesn't that make your blood boil? Ever ask your pastor how much he gets paid? Ever get the urge to cast out those "money changers"?
It doesn't make my blood boil because yes, my pastor is forthcoming with his personal financials. In fact, I happen to know that his previous cost-of-living raise was eliminated in the last budget. Not due to poor performance, either- it had to do with a down economy and a desire to prioritize funding for missions and youth ministry. It's a small church, though, and I do realize you probably have very large churches in mind here. For a small church, though, you'd be surprised how much of the budget is devoted to missions. It's almost half.

4) Most churches sing songs right before collecting the offerings because that is when most people feel the best and are more generous. Sad, ain't it?
That is sad. It's awfully easy to slip into emotional manipulation, and some people take advantage of it. OTOH, most people do give little to nothing. Suppose every adult employed weekly-church-attending Christian (and this is strictly limited to those who attend weekly) was on welfare. Now suppose 10% of each welfare check went to whatever church they attend weekly- and nothing else is given by anyone. Got an idea of what that number is? Well, it's much higher than the total amount of money currently being given when everyone is accounted for and most people get paid more than people on welfare. That's not to say emotional manipulation is ok- it's not. But I do understand why pastors are frustrated.

5) Would your church allow Saint Paul to partake of communion?
It's open communion. So yes, Paul the apostle can partake.

He had a prison record and was constantly in trouble with the law. He was apparently a bum taking on odd jobs like tent making and taking hand outs. I bet he would drive the pharisees and hypocrites in your church into a full blown tizzy.
At the mission my pastor (and a few church members) go to on Sunday nights, he would look like a boy scout by comparison. Even if you completely ignore the apostle/evangelist part of his life. And on Sunday mornings, he wouldn't be the only ex-con and he wouldn't have the worst track record. We can deal. Surprise.

Or would he have to first sign and be in agreement with your churches statement of faith?
No, he would not have to sign on to anything for that. That would be required to vote on things like who will be Sunday School superintendent, church treasurer, or elders and deacons. Whereas open communion is open communion. If you show up and are a human, you meet the requirements. You'd probably want to at least profess Christianity in some sense, but even then, both communion elements are passed around and go through your hands in such a way that you could partake for any reason or no reason at all, and this rule is quite universal.

Years ago I went to visit my father and attended his church but was denied to partake of communion because I had not been interviewed by the head pharisee on what I believed.
You might be a touch too broad with the Pharisee moniker. I do think open communion is a good way to be, though. And if you want people to examine themselves to see if they're in the right mindset, it's not hard- just ask for a minute of silence for the purpose of self-examination. Then people either partake or don't, for whatever reason.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#31
once visited a church...kinda liked it...was encouraged to 'join'...

it's good to read the fine print, though.

there i discovered joining meant you were legally liable for a percentage of their mortgage,
should they default. (the amount was in the five figure range, per person)

eh, i'm not a joiner, by nature. :)
 

SparkleEyes

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2013
771
21
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#32
I have been going to a larger non-denom church for 6 years and joined a year ago. Joining involved attending a 3 hour presentation in which several leaders spoke and receiving a booklet on the church, what Christianity is and what the church believes. Then I had to answer about 4 questions, one of which was my testimony and submit them. A couple of weeks later, I received a note from the pastor welcoming me in. I am positive one doesn't have to be a Christian to join because we welcome seekers/those hungry for God. I know you don't have to be a member to give regularly, but the church regularly says they don't really want/ask for your money unless you call this church Home.

The 2 biggest reasons my church asks for those who attend regularly (and call this church their home) to commit to being a member is for voting purposes and the second reason is to facilitate communication. If the church doesn't have info on you, the can't send you info or contact you if needed.
 
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iTOREtheSKY

Guest
#33
I am not for "signing" contracts within a church membership. I went to a non-denominational church & was a member for 8 years before I left. 7 of those years I was the drummer in our praise & worship team. I worked a 40 hour a week job as a cook,and was at church at least 20 hours a week,sometimes more. Tuesday night was prayer & then band rehersal, Wednesday night was mid-week service,and the there was Sunday service. In between all that,there was Friday night outreach where myself & 5 other people would take members of the youth group out to the streets to witness.I helped out in the nursery,and taught sunday school many times,as well as cleaned the church once a month. Also in the meantime I was involved in my own Heavy Metal band practicing,writing & playing gigs. Basically I was busy. The point I am making is that I was very committed to God & to the church. No one could ever question that. Our church had between 150 - 200 ppl in it as members at any given point. 15% did most of the work. This church long before I had ever become a member was a result of the original pastor leaving & starting another church leaving behind 2 rag-tag congregations,that eventually formed 1 church. One big thing I always remembered them saying was that it had gotten very legalistic,and there was a time that they started requiring members & various sections of ministry to sign a contract,swearing that you would perform the tasks assigned to you OR ELSE! This had been done away with for years. During my last year at the church,membership had been dropping off. Our assistant pastor & his wife had moved away to be a part of another church & various others in leadership roles had left for other reasons,family or job related. Now the 15% that did most of the work in the church had dropped to around 8%. Which is why I think the music ministry came up with these crazy "sign yer' life away" contracts,which stated you MUST attend ANY & ALL church functions. That being on the music team was a leadership position & we were PILLARS of the church. If you needed time off,you would have to request in writing 3 months in advance such time as needed off & why & then it would be under review. Now at the time,no one had known yet that I was already planning on leaving the music ministry. After much prayer in my own time with God & feeling not right about being up there any longer,I just knew I was supposed to step down & just hang back in the congregation. (still participate,but just not in any up front way) So when I was handed this 5 page document I was told to read & sign before our next music practice,it couldn't have been clearer to me that I was certainly hearing from God & needed to step down. The next day I did. I asked for a meeting with the leader of our praise & worship team & my pastor & told them both. Neither were too happy about it. I stayed in the church for another year,but it was starting to get strange,both spiritually as well as the attitudes of the people there. Needless to say...within the next 2 years,nearly all of the original people who'd been there when I started attending had left. (that was well over 80 singles & families)..much of this was due to the fact that people were asked to sign their lives away just to be at church. A place where you are supposed to be able to share,encourage,and recharge your spiritual batteries with your brothers & sisters & give praise to God...it's supposed to be a blessing not a bondage. At least that's what I always assumed it was for. Maybe I'm wrong. Am I a heretic? lol So,with all that long winded-ness,I say no... no..no to signing on the dotted line.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#34
What are your thoughts on Church membership?...the kind where you sign on the dottted line.
Does it have Scriptural backing?
When in history did it start up?
Is being faithful in attendance and participation just as good a criterea to be a member?
Your thoughts.
I have varied views on this.

Personally, I probably won't ever be a "church member" because there isn't a church I fully agree with. Most of the time you have to agree with everything to be a church member. So unless some denomination comes along that I fully agree with, chances are, I won't be a member.

Now here is where my opinion gets varied.

There is a certain attitude now days that is against committing to anything on paper, or committing to regularly meeting in person with actual people in a thing called a church. Such people are afraid of the commitment, and accountability that comes with actually committing to a body of believers.

Those who fear such commitment spew off all this high ideology sounding rhetoric. But in most instances such rhetoric is total hog wash, and is just cover for failing to want to commit and come under accountability to an actual gathered body of Christ.

A prime example of this is from those who may be against getting a "legal" marriage certificate. They'll go on and on and on about how it's a commitment as long as it's done in God's eyes. They'll dismiss getting a "legal" marriage by spewing out the hogwash.

In reality such people are just trying to avoid actual commitment.

So in conclusion. I think it all comes down to motive.