Signing on the dotted line______Church Membership.
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G
Signing something to show that you are there is kind of ridiculous. Why do they have to know each person who walks in?
What purpose and reason is their behind it?
I say you can have church at home with 1 believer as well. What does the bible say? Jesus says where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name their I am in the midst of them. Does that not sound like church?
You don't need to forsake the church because we grow together with encouragement and building each other up. But neither should you be forced to sign something. If you're not there then your obviously not going to sign it. If you are there then it should be about reading,understanding, and getting wisdom,about the bible, from the service. As well as praising and maybe build up a brother or sister.
~ Blessings
What purpose and reason is their behind it?
I say you can have church at home with 1 believer as well. What does the bible say? Jesus says where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name their I am in the midst of them. Does that not sound like church?
You don't need to forsake the church because we grow together with encouragement and building each other up. But neither should you be forced to sign something. If you're not there then your obviously not going to sign it. If you are there then it should be about reading,understanding, and getting wisdom,about the bible, from the service. As well as praising and maybe build up a brother or sister.
~ Blessings
K
Church as we do it has no Scriptural basis. If you start with what is supposed to happen in Heb. 10:25 and I Cor. 14, you are there to BE church, to be part of the living Body of Christ. Because they want you to sit and watch, they have to get a count, so they know if the organization is maintaining itself. That makes it a club, with dues, membership rosters, attendance, etc.
G
See what happens if you don't sign it. Be like hey y'all i came to worship God and find solid food. If this little piece of paper is going to keep me from reading or hearing God's word what does that say about this church and who its trying to serve?
[h=3]Matthew 7:16[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
[h=3]Galatians 5:22-23[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 13:4-7[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. [SUP]5 [/SUP]It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
[h=3]Matthew 7:16[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
[h=3]Galatians 5:22-23[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 13:4-7[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. [SUP]5 [/SUP]It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
N
I did become a member of my church but there was no signing on the dotted line. We had several people who joined when I did, although I'd been attending regularly for over 2 years and was very involved. The pastor held a class one Sunday afternoon for about 3 hours on the history of the Methodist Church. There was no voting you in, we just attended the class, participated in the discussion as we liked, and the following Sunday we are announced as new members. I loved it because I now had the history in common with everyone else. We've had a handful of new people begin attending since then and they have asked about becoming members. There is no qualifications required, no insistence that you become a member, it's entirely up to the you.
N
15 yrs.ago when I decided to become a member of my church, I had to fill out about 3 pgs. of questions. Then I was interviewed by an elder and asked questions about what was on the questioier. I didn't mind because I guess it was a way of getting to know your motives and the type of person you are. I don't think it is biblical, however I think a church can have policies to protect themselves. A pastor has a responsiability to his congregation to protect them, so if the Lord puts it on the heart of a pastor to do membership a specific way , he needs to be obedient. God wants us to use wisdom in all situations so I don't have a problem with it. Since then I moved out of state and became a member of that church, filled out a request form and that was that.
Most churches today are death traps preaching a false gospel, where you join the church organization, serve the organization as they tell you to give either a tithe or an offering, while they promote the false saved IN sin gospel, they tell you you were born a poor helpless sinner, and that your only cure is the Jesus substitute plan! What a scam!
What a market, what a scam..
Compart your beloved church with what the true church is all about!
When you become part of the true called out ones, you do not sign a contract, pay a tithe, or join in all the fun, food and games!
NO, you repent in line with the city of Nineveh, and seek the great mercy of God! And walk a pure and holy life unto the Lord! Standing against all the reformed errors that came from the likes of Luther, Calvin, Westley, etc...
The Church
Ekklēsia is the Greek word used in the New Testament over 116 times, translated in our English Bibles as ‘Church’. The word has NOTHING to do with stone buildings or sacred places of worship. It is a compound word meaning: ‘Ek’: Out from….’Ekklisia’ the called out. Thus the ‘Called out’.
The Greek word most closely related to ‘Church’ is kuriakos, used in 1Cor11:20 & Rev1:10, translated: ‘the Lord’s’ as referring to the Lord ’s Supper and the Lord’s Day. Meaning in the Greek: belonging to the Lord, related to the Lord. This word became associated with places of ‘Christian’ worship around 300AD under Roman Emperor Constantine. Up to that time the true followers of Jesus Christ were meeting in private homes, often in secret at night. WHY? Because in the Roman Empire there could be no private religion! It was against the law and considered conspiratorial to hold secret or private meetings in homes. This is why the Pagans often brought moral charges against the Christians accusing them of incest, cannibalism and unnatural practices.
(meetings in homes: Rom16:5, 1Cor16:19, Col4:15, Phil1:2, Acts2:46)
For those of you in the religious system ignorant of past history, Constantine was the Roman Emperor who granted religious tolerance in the land that brought an end to the bitter persecutions against Christians. This eventually led to the uniting of church and state, bringing the ‘Christian’ religion into great cathedrals of Rome. (considered sacred by the pagans) From that time forward an ‘Official’ religious system existed under the guise of Christianity blending together the idols, pagan beliefs and rituals of Roman culture. Officially you were either a ‘Catholic Christian’ or a ‘heretic’….branded foolish madmen, who should suffer chastisement and divine condemnation.
Essentially this turned the tables against the real Saints of God labeling them dangerous dissenters and has done so every since. The System now had full authority to persecute and legally murder their religious opponents. Thus is your explanation for all the religious blood letting throughout history and for the present religious establishment that exists in our (relatively) free society today.
The ‘Churches’ as they exist in our towns, villages and cities, in which so-called Christians claim to worship the One True God are simply an off-shoot of what happened in ancient Rome when the Pure Doctrine of Jesus Christ was nullified by the teachings of men. This is why the ‘Church’ has absolutely no similarity to the ‘Ekklesia’ of the Bible and also has no desire whatsoever to resemble it. They have their SYSTEM in place that serves the purpose of gathering humanity under a unified pattern of religion where anything goes and people can choose the ‘form’ that suits them best.
The establishment can still maintain a fabricated authority over attendees insisting they must submit to church leadership and remain in fellowship lest they abandon the faith. This enforces the fantasy in the minds of church goers that those who flee the System are angry runagates and devils better off gone rather than stirring up trouble in their midst. In olden times the ‘Church’ exercised domination over the people by the pretense of piety, the place of worship (they controlled) was consecrated of the Lord and dare not be blasphemed or defied. They may not be hunting down dissidents or burning anyone at the stake in our time, but TRY going among them to challenge their false doctrines and expose the sin! You will find out very quickly that non-compliance will NOT be tolerated.
A denominational church will use its entire governing body to see that you’re silenced and cast out of doors if necessary. More independent organizations will muster the governing board against you and see that you’re brought to shame in the eyes of the people. How different is that from excommunication or being branded a heretic by the religious establishment? The illegitimate ‘Church’ System STILL holds great sway over the gullible (professed) Christian public who fear being numbered among the rebellious. God’s greatest Prophets (including John the Baptist) always stood aloof of the religious system and were greatly out-numbered by the dominant forces. Elijah had to stand alone against 450 false prophets of Baal who had already gone out and slain hundreds of the Lord’s faithful. (1Kings19:12-21)
It’s really no surprise that those of us who Preach the Lord’s true Doctrine cannot buy or sell inside the religious system. (Rev13:17) The use of these words; ‘Buy & Sell’ in Revelation 13 are metaphorical. To Buy means the ability to Participate in a market place….To Sell translates as ability to Barter in a place. Are God’s true Messengers of Repentance and Faith Proven by deeds permitted to ‘Participate’ in the designated places of worship? Can they ‘Barter’ (the act or practice of carrying on a trade) among the ‘church’ people? BY NO MEANS…..because they have NOT taken on the Mark (which is the lust of the eye, flesh & pride of life!) but have CAST it away in the Crucifixion of the passions and desires of the flesh. (Rom6:4-6,Gal5:24)
That’s what has separated the ‘Ekklesia’ from the church since the beginning. When Saul (later Paul) made havoc of the church entering into every house dragging off men and women committing them to prison (Acts8:3) Obviously he was finding this ‘Ekklesia’ in the houses. He did not have to seek them out in the local synagogues or other official places of worship approved by the religious system. And the SAME holds true today….you will NOT find the ‘Called out ones’ partaking at the table of demons in a place of idolatry. (1Cor10:21)
Christ used this important Word when He said in Matt16:18 that upon this Rock I will build My Church. (Ekklesia) That is He would build His assembly on those called out of Darkness and Bondage into Light and Freedom from sin! (Acts26:18)
The Saints are NOT called to buildings set apart as sacred run by a religious establishment of celery with some kind of special privileges to Lord over people.
WHO is Greatest in the Kingdom of our Lord?
And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your servant. Matt20:27
But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matt23:11
Even the Ransom (redemption of Christ) is associated with this kind of Servitude:
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”Matt20:28
Jesus Served on the ‘Called out ones’ behalf in order to Redeem them from darkness to light from the power of Satan to God. That’s why His ‘Church’ is the ‘Chosen generation, the Royal priesthood, a holy nation of His own special people that may proclaim praises to Him who called them out of darkness into His marvelous Light!’ 1Pet2:9. The Ekklesia is NOT the filthy ragged, desperately wicked, wretched, born depraved, chiefs of sinners sitting under the bondage of a religious system that rules over their minds and keeps them in ignorance.
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C
My thoughts- coming from a non-denom church- are that the main difference between attendance/participation and membership are that membership allows a person to vote on certain matters of church governance and leadership. Non-members can participate and attend, but members can vote on things. In many other churches, however, there's a sharper distinction between clergy and laity so no one has voting privileges unless appointed to a certain position- so the main difference would be the ability to participate in certain rites at that particular church.
Does it have Scriptural backing? Maybe somewhat, certainly not explicitly and in much detail. But then America isn't mentioned in the Bible, and here I am- an American. With all respect and hopefully without coming across as sarcastic, so what.
When in history did it start up? Well, that's complicated and I'm sure it varies from place to place. For centuries (and it still is this way in some countries), citizenship in a country and membership in a church were intimately connected to the point where they were of a piece; not quite one and the same but basically two sides of the same coin. In the western hemisphere, I think the dotted-line-membership thing was a gradually-evolving way of moving past that and on to something better. I'd say this is a vast improvement overall, but it well may be that we start to move past it and on to something else. And that's fine, too, as long as there's good reason and as long as it's an improvement.
Does it have Scriptural backing? Maybe somewhat, certainly not explicitly and in much detail. But then America isn't mentioned in the Bible, and here I am- an American. With all respect and hopefully without coming across as sarcastic, so what.
When in history did it start up? Well, that's complicated and I'm sure it varies from place to place. For centuries (and it still is this way in some countries), citizenship in a country and membership in a church were intimately connected to the point where they were of a piece; not quite one and the same but basically two sides of the same coin. In the western hemisphere, I think the dotted-line-membership thing was a gradually-evolving way of moving past that and on to something better. I'd say this is a vast improvement overall, but it well may be that we start to move past it and on to something else. And that's fine, too, as long as there's good reason and as long as it's an improvement.
I believe in church membership. It is not about the Bible, but obeying the laws of the land. Churches are set up as non- profit societies. They can do more to help others, to conduct business if they have people who are willing to commit to the body in a local church.
I love my church but don't agree on one issue. The elder that interviewed me told me a lot of people didn't. It was not a big enough issue to not have membership. My church does not demand tithes, I do it because I want to.
I just know I could not help the poor to the extent my church does, support missionaries, Seminaries or the many activities our church does to reach into the community on a "two or three are gathered in my name" basis. Not saying it is wrong to do that, if God is calling you there. But the fact is, the government does require members in order to do things, and to be acknowledged by the community.
We work closely with the community on many issues. We work with other churches to reach the community for Christ. That is good enough for me.
I love my church but don't agree on one issue. The elder that interviewed me told me a lot of people didn't. It was not a big enough issue to not have membership. My church does not demand tithes, I do it because I want to.
I just know I could not help the poor to the extent my church does, support missionaries, Seminaries or the many activities our church does to reach into the community on a "two or three are gathered in my name" basis. Not saying it is wrong to do that, if God is calling you there. But the fact is, the government does require members in order to do things, and to be acknowledged by the community.
We work closely with the community on many issues. We work with other churches to reach the community for Christ. That is good enough for me.
C
I once attended a church that wouldn't let you serve in any ministry unless you was a member, you had to fill out an application and if you attended another church previously they sent a letter to that church letting them know you had become a member. I have no clue if this is biblical, but when someone wants to become an elder that person is questioned by the members about his doctrine and sits through a 2 hour grueling process of questions by members that barely read their own bibles, I finally left after that, I feel the pastor's and other elders should be the one's to question someone that desires that position
While I don't see the need in signing the dotted line, I do very much see the need of joining the church for the necessity of order and voting on certain issues. Note the Scripture:
Galatians 2:4 [SUP]4 [/SUP]And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily (secretly) to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Jude 1:4 [SUP]4 [/SUP]For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:1 [SUP]1 [/SUP]But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily (secretly) shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Acts 15:1-2 [SUP]1 [/SUP]And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. [SUP]2 [/SUP]When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. Acts 15:23-24 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: [SUP]24 [/SUP]Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Without proper membership, a small church could be overrun with people desiring to take it over for themselves. I have seen old members who hadn't been to church for years come in and vote in a pastor only to leave and never come back. We have to do such things these days just to keep order in the church. Knowing that the Judaizers caused so much trouble to the early church, how much more would ungodly people call such problems to today's church?
Galatians 2:4 [SUP]4 [/SUP]And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily (secretly) to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Jude 1:4 [SUP]4 [/SUP]For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:1 [SUP]1 [/SUP]But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily (secretly) shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Acts 15:1-2 [SUP]1 [/SUP]And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. [SUP]2 [/SUP]When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. Acts 15:23-24 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: [SUP]24 [/SUP]Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Without proper membership, a small church could be overrun with people desiring to take it over for themselves. I have seen old members who hadn't been to church for years come in and vote in a pastor only to leave and never come back. We have to do such things these days just to keep order in the church. Knowing that the Judaizers caused so much trouble to the early church, how much more would ungodly people call such problems to today's church?