The Devil, and God.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Q

quiteFrankly

Guest
#1
So, I have a question in regards to the "devil", and "god".

I would first like to question one thing.

Why has the (if devil) shown so many presences of himself in the world, whilst the same hasn't been done by god?

If you're going to reach into the "good" isn't seen by everyone argument, well in my eyes that doesn't even stand as a conclusive answer to my question. I'm just trying to get more knowledge on what Christians answer to this question is.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#2
The bible has these answers. Lots of answers.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#4
Romans Chapter 1 is good for this particular question.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#5
Here's a little bit.

Romans 1:17-25
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#6
I think just the fact the devil's presence is shown so much just proves that god is there. I once was in the presence of what i believe was the devil and i begged Jesus to protect me and the presence went away.
 
S

styler

Guest
#7
When you call on Jesus the Devil will aways run away.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#9
I also should mention I was being attacked by a demon in a dream and cried out to Jesus and the demon went away.
 
D

Dh350twin

Guest
#10
What gives the devil his abilities to come in so many forms?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#11
1. God presence is know through His creation.

2. Satan gets way too much credit for the evil in the world. sometimes its just caused by human's and their corrupt desires and not some supernatural entity.

3. since you are spiritually blind, its doubtful that you will find a "conclusive answer" to your question.

God is seen when a child takes their first breath. God is seen when a sinner falls on his knees and repents. God is present when a little girl hugs her brother. God is evident in the love we have for another.

Its like a blind person asking for proof that there are different colors.

the devil makes "presences" of himself around the world?

there are thousands of demons, but ONE God who has defeated them all.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#12
There's a lot of credit going to Satan. Satan is only one being. He does not work alone. He has an army of followers with the same goals he has. And just like people, these followers have different personalities and abilities.
If a sniper is sent out to well, snipe someone, haha, do you credit the individual, the sniper, for the action, or does all the credit go to the general 1000's of miles away? Same here, Satan may not have all the abilities, but he is in charge of others who may be talented in areas he's not. So lets not be so quick to give Satan more power than he really has.
 
P

PeteWaldo

Guest
#13
Sorry it wound up a bit lengthy but I wanted to paint more than a snapshot of the two sides to which you allude.
So, I have a question in regards to the "devil", and "god".

I would first like to question one thing.

Why has the (if devil) shown so many presences of himself in the world, ......
This is a good place to start. There are two places. There is the world, and there is the kingdom of God/Jesus Christ.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Only those that have been born again can see the kingdom of God.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

As grandpa pointed out from Romans, God made Himself manifest in such things as the miracle of creation, and appears to ever more so as we continue to learn about DNA and such.
However the kingdoms of this world have been Satan's legal possession ever since Adam's fall. He even offered them to Jesus, if He would bow down to him, but Jesus didn't take the bait.

..... whilst the same hasn't been done by god?
However the observation that inspired your question may depend somewhat on where you live. Many parts of the would have been almost entirely consumed by Satan's spirit of antichrist. For example:

AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."

Yet at the same time millions of Muslims in Africa are coming to Christ, and over 40% of them through dreams, visions, or being spoken to directly by Jesus Christ. I'm talking about things as specific as being told to show up in an appointed place and to wait, when later on they are greeted by the person that Jesus sent them to. This is from a great book I recently finished titled "Miraculous Movements" from which I pulled that. However you can find lots of youtubes as well.

Since the "church" is dead in so much of the west, and particularly in Europe, I shudder to think that it could be because God sent strong delusion that they should believe a lie, because they had no love of truth.
Falling Away or Apostasy

1.5 billion people in the world today - that's 1/4 of mankind - believe that to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even to pray in Jesus name, would constitute the most egregious and only unforgivable sin. A sin worse than, for example, child rape or cold blooded mass murder.
UNFORGIVABLE SIN OF SHIRK

Yet in the New Testament we read: 1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

That same 1.5 billion people are commanded to conquer all kingdoms, and subjugate all people, to DISbelieving the crucifixion of Christ, DENYING the Son of God, and REJECTING His shed blood as articles of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad alone.

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Bukhari, V1 B2 #24 Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle....."
JIHAD

That's why Muhammad's true followers are out to kill or subjugate all non-Muslims - because they are commanded to. The the only "radicals" are those that preposterously claim it is a religion of peace, which is directly opposed to its 1400 year history.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

As if that weren't enough, Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel:
Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

As you can see, Islam is to Christianity, as the negative is to a photograph, yet godless folks must have to convince themselves that this is just some sort of a crazy coincidence. With 1/3 of mankind proclaiming a belief in the God of the bible, and 1/4 of mankind proclaiming the opposite of the way the God of the Bible revealed Himself. Just as the false prophet was the exact opposite of the sinless Messiah Jesus Christ.

Bukhari B77 #600 Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: That while he was sitting with the Prophet a man from the Ansar came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get slave girls from the war captives and we love property; what do you think about coitus interruptus?" Allah's Apostle said, "Do you do that? It is better for you not to do it, for there is no soul which Allah has ordained to come into existence but will be created."

Seems Muhammad's followers at least either having the shred of decency to not want to burden their captives with unwanted children as a result of rape, or perhaps were just more concerned about whether their prices reduced when sold into slavery. Thus no surprise:

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

If you're going to reach into the "good" isn't seen by everyone argument, well in my eyes that doesn't even stand as a conclusive answer to my question. I'm just trying to get more knowledge on what Christians answer to this question is.
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Yet: Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
G

Gifts

Guest
#14
God and Satan do things differently first of all. And God is here, God is everywhere, and the Holy Spirit dwells in us and among us.
 
P

PeteWaldo

Guest
#15
Why has the (if devil) shown so many presences of himself in the world, whilst the same hasn't been done by god?
Put another way, here's the kind of thing the people do through the Holy Spirit. God making His presence well known to millions:
https://www.mercyships.org/s/index.php
Or freeing people that were captured and enslaved by Muslims in Africa as another example:
Muslim Slavery Still Exists!!! - YouTube

And on the other side:
united copts .org - Statement by Father Juan Carlos Martos cmf
 
Oct 14, 2012
335
4
0
#16
I know from the Scrolls why Satan, and I/3 of the angels rebelled, but that is a story for a different time. Also what the fruit was they took,
This was my thinking last night. Did Satan lie to Eve when he said, ( of taking the fruit) “You will not die?” Adam and Eve did not die from taking the fruit…they died from a judgment of God after taking it.
Perhaps Satan was thinking what he said could not be taken as a lie by God. We know he wanted Adam and Eve to fall out of favor with God.
What do you guys think?
 
T

Theophane

Guest
#17
"Why has the (if devil) shown so many presences of himself in the world, whilst the same hasn't been done by god?"

I don't think the devil wants his existence to be understood, such as it is. I think what he prefers to do is to attack God from the shadows, to make God look bad by pretending to be God.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,947
113
#18
I don't know, I see God's presence in everything.

The Bible says

"And we know all things work together for God for those who love God and are called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28

But you have to know Christ for it to work!

I could tell you about all the bad things I have been through and the incredible good brought out of it. I could tell you of the inner changes God has made in my life, taking me from a depressed and suicidal person to someone filled with joy every day. I could tell you that the more I know Jesus, the more I see him at work.

God is in control. That means that when you see evil, God knows the greater picture, and he will find a way to somehow bring more people to himself.

And besides, this life is a training ground. When Jesus returns, then we will not be tempted by sin or Satan anymore, and it will be a glorious day!
 
P

Professor

Guest
#19
Here are two recent examples of God in the world:
I was on the bus when a deaf man came up to me and started teaching me the alphabet in sign language. I thought I already knew it, but the deaf man held onto my hand, lovingly correcting me. Then when he was done, I signed to him. It just came so naturally and I didn't even know what I was saying to him, but the deaf man signed back in the same fashion. When I got home, I went to the internet to find out what I said to him. It turns out I was thanking him for reaching out to me and he was thanking me back.

Two days ago I saw a homeless man in the library. There was a coffee shop in the library. I told God that I wanted to buy the man some coffee and whatever else he wanted. Just then, God had the man walk up to me. I asked him if he wanted coffee. He said yes, and I also bought him some coffee cake. The man touched my shoulder and warmly thanked me. I touched him back and wished him well.

God is present in our interactions with others. And God is ever-present in my loving, peace-filled, joyful, happy home.

So, I have a question in regards to the "devil", and "god".

I would first like to question one thing.

Why has the (if devil) shown so many presences of himself in the world, whilst the same hasn't been done by god?

If you're going to reach into the "good" isn't seen by everyone argument, well in my eyes that doesn't even stand as a conclusive answer to my question. I'm just trying to get more knowledge on what Christians answer to this question is.
 
D

Dh350twin

Guest
#20
Here are two recent examples of God in the world:
I was on the bus when a deaf man came up to me and started teaching me the alphabet in sign language. I thought I already knew it, but the deaf man held onto my hand, lovingly correcting me. Then when he was done, I signed to him. It just came so naturally and I didn't even know what I was saying to him, but the deaf man signed back in the same fashion. When I got home, I went to the internet to find out what I said to him. It turns out I was thanking him for reaching out to me and he was thanking me back.

Two days ago I saw a homeless man in the library. There was a coffee shop in the library. I told God that I wanted to buy the man some coffee and whatever else he wanted. Just then, God had the man walk up to me. I asked him if he wanted coffee. He said yes, and I also bought him some coffee cake. The man touched my shoulder and warmly thanked me. I touched him back and wished him well.

God is present in our interactions with others. And God is ever-present in my loving, peace-filled, joyful, happy home.
that is a lovely story