WHAT WAS PAULS 'THORN ?

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hattiebod

Guest
#1
I expect some of you are a bit tired answering this one...so I ask for patience & you can direct me to info. elsewhere on this topic if you like. I was asked this question today & did not have a definitive answer...seems there are a lot of opinions, some quite plausible & others quite wild :) So, I would like to hear what any of you think? I appreciate your responses, thank-you, <><
 
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Theophane

Guest
#2
St. Paul wrote about having a thorn in his flesh. I've never heard or read anything that explains the precise nature of the "thorn." A painful bodily ailment, would be my guess.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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#3
It doesn't specifically say, but many assume it was some type of sickness or disability. An interesting thing though is he had power to heal, and could not heal himself.
 
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Abiding

Guest
#4
Woman wanting to be pastors?:cool:
 
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Abiding

Guest
#5
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hattiebod

Guest
#6
Numbers 33:55; Joshua 23:13; Judges 2:3; Ezekiel 2:6; 28:24; Micah 7:4; Luke 6:44 and Hebrew 6:8.

Thorns are people. Pricks in the side(OT term) also relates as a metaphor of people that aggravate or oppose you.
You can pick your answer from the chapter before where he tells you his list especially when he mentions
"the cares of the church" which is also addressed in the latter.
Thank you...would that relate to Paul being 'kept humble'...someone said this to me today...I never think of Paul as a humble man really...but maybe he was...he talked enough of how he was 'nothing without Christ'. <><
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#7
If the phrase Thorn in the Flesh always referred to people whom Israel let hang around (gaza) then Pauls thorn was probably someone persecuting his ministry. Maybe even someone he was supposed to fire when he had authority with pharisees but let remain who has now become powerful and was being used by Satan to hinder him. Humble because he said it kept him from thinking he was superhuman just because God chose him.
 
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AgapeSpiritEyes

Guest
#8
I expect some of you are a bit tired answering this one...so I ask for patience & you can direct me to info. elsewhere on this topic if you like. I was asked this question today & did not have a definitive answer...seems there are a lot of opinions, some quite plausible & others quite wild :) So, I would like to hear what any of you think? I appreciate your responses, thank-you, <><
In Numbers 33:55, contains a Prophecy that was fulfilled concerning Israel with God‘s command to drive out all the nations Inhabiting the Land of Israel. It is the 18th and last prophecy in the Book of numbers. Israel failed in this command of the Lord. Thus they the nations inhabiting the land became a source of constant trouble. The nation of Israel eventually was driven out instead of, these thorny people of nations, for the same reason (because Israel did not drive out all other nations inhabiting the Land).
The reasons were that both Israel and the nations were infested with: Idolatry, adultery, rebellion, complete moral depravity. After rejecting Jesus the Messiah Israel was completely destroyed as a nation the people experienced dispersion for over 1900 years. Also the Lord uses the same words through Joshua referencing the same as in The Lord’s statement in Numbers 33:55 to: thorns, scourges, snares and traps tagged to the enemies of Israel, that were not driven out of the promised land( Israel, Joshua 23:13). So, this is appropriate and of the heaviest of all and any contextual link to Paul. Paul is referring to the Jews such as being a thorn in Paul’s side, he explains it in detailed 2nd Corth. 12:7 this is the most appropriate simple and detailed explanation to this thorn in Paul. It was “the messenger” (aggelos) meaning angel of satan it is never translated disease or infirmity.
And never has meant anything other. This messenger is also one that fell as satan did followed Paul and buffeted him when he was tempted to be exalted. Paul listed the details of these buffetings in 11:23-27 close attetion to verse 28 those that are without or the outward suffering in the list. Which lists no diseases or infirmities, the first references of these types of thorns also are categorically the same Eze.28:24 Hos. 2:6 same Greek word “Skolop” thorn is found. These were Giants and enemies of Israel it is not legal in context or etymology to transfer it to mean disease or infirmity. But to real giants of physical threats and physical harm done by a physical being. Pauls giants were the jews that were driven by this messanger of satan.
 
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Abiding

Guest
#9
Thank you...would that relate to Paul being 'kept humble'...someone said this to me today...I never think of Paul as a humble man really...but maybe he was...he talked enough of how he was 'nothing without Christ'. <><
Paul became humble yes. By nature? well apparently not thats why he prayed 3 times.
And in the scriptures he gave a list of his perfect accademics and bloodline. Id say God humbled him.
When he understood that was happening he rejoiced in all his trials and infirmities, he knew God
wasnt about to take them away(in fact he said they were "sent" to buffet him)(mess with him) so Paul gloried in all his problems so the power of God(grace) could keep him only.

If Satan had had the choice in this he would have left Paul alone and made everyone love him
knowing pride makes every man fall.....but the messenger of satan was sent by God.
funny sometimes we pray God take from us something we need. To transform us, and conform us
and to keep us dependent on His sufficient grace. Im sure i do because i get alot of the answer "NO"
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#10
It doesn't specifically say, but many assume it was some type of sickness or disability. An interesting thing though is he had power to heal, and could not heal himself.
That's because you can't heal yourself. The gifts are given thru you to someone else. It's a partnership of the Spirit and a willing person to bring something good to someone else. Now, Why God never prompted anyone to heal Paul is another question.

Sorry to get off subject.

I believe the thorn was the flesh itself, with it's sins and failings and weakness towards sin and failing.
 
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Abiding

Guest
#11
I dont believe it was a sin problem at all...if it was then Paul would not have ended
the text saying he would rejoice in it. And glory in having it.

But anyway i think the Holyspirit left it private so that we all could apply it to
ourselves whatever difficulty we are in, and to live by His sufficient grace through it.
 
Jan 8, 2013
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#12
In 2 Corinthians 12:7 the scriptures are very specific as to what the thorn was, 'the messenger (aggelos - one who is sent on a mission) of Satan to buffet him (to strike him with blows as with a fist over and over)'. It was either a man or demon under the control of Satan. The thorn was a splinter that pricked the weakness of his flesh and puffed it up to the point of being inflamed, an area of his fleshly life that he did not want being stirred up. He prayed to the Lord three times that he might remove it or that it might depart from him (a man or demon), but God left it so that he would have to receive grace with that fleshly thorn aggravating him continually with no relief. Paul learned to receive grace in the midst of this fleshly thorn so that God's strength could be made perfect (made complete and fulfilling) in his weakness.
 
Apr 4, 2013
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#13
Ive seen many try to answer this question most with no success at all (coconut did an good job). the fact is the scripture is clear as to exactly what the thorn in the flesh was. It was the persecutions that he was suffering for Christ and the gospel. It is right there in the passage.

Remember there were not chapters or verses when Paul wrote his letter. Look what he says in chapter 11.

2 Cor 11
[SUP]16 [/SUP]I say again, let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
[SUP]30 [/SUP]If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.


Now compare the emboldened portion to what he says about the thorn in the flesh in chapter 12

2 Cor 12

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.


Seems pretty clear to me
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#14
My guess is he had poor eyesight? We know he lost his sight on the Damascus road.

Gal 6:11 See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand.
 
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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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#15
I wish we had more than five minutes to edit our posts. I see verses like the one below and get the impression Barnabas acted as a guide?

Act 11:25 So Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.
 
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salgirl

Guest
#16
I feel that Paull's thorn must have been psychological - bad thoughts or feelings that he just could not ignore? I think any honest person will openly admit they have some degree of dealing with this issue... GBU all!
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
586
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#17
Woman wanting to be pastors?
Paul had absolutely NO problems with women as Pastors/Teachers and neither did the early church (Gal 3v28), Paul found them at least as equal for the task as any man, it is generally male chauvinists and women who blindly follow their spiritually blind leaders who balk at this reality from God (Matt 15v14)...:p
 
May 9, 2012
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#18
I've always wondered that too...it may be of his previous life before his conversion on the road to Damascus. He was a leader in Jewish activism killing Christians...that's what he was going to do in Damascus when he was stopped. It could have been spiritual and psychological for that reason. But it may have been physical too. If you read Luke and Acts, we find passages written by Luke that include "we" indicating he was with Paul...and we all know Luke was a doctor/physician/something medically related. It is interesting to think about.
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#19
Not a woman pastor as the thorn, but, yes, maybe, the actions of th women in the Ephesus and Corinthian churches that caused him to explicitly give them their roles in the church, which was sit by your husband's side and be quiet and ask all your questions at home.

I have no problem with the issue of women misbehaving in Corinth church and, especially, the Ephesus church, as being a 'thorn,' it certainly bothered Paul a lot, or the word 'suffer' would not be in 1 Tim. 2:12. But to say that women pastors was a thorn in his side, he never even mentions women pastors in all his teachings, so, 'women,' yes, could be, but 'women pastors?' No.
Certainly, 1 Tim. 2:12 is not referring to women pastors, it is referring to women in general, but, specifically, wives of husbands, that is why they are to understand the order, they were formed second, and, they were deceived, they are going to be saved in childbearing as verse 15 points out.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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#20
Proverbs 31:10 "A wife of noble character who can find? She is worth far more than rubies."

It's a high calling ladies. ;)