Does the soul live on after death?

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K

kenisyes

Guest
#21
The word "soul" in English includes a lot of different things in Hebrew and Greek. That is why you get different responses to the question. Different Scriptures people read and apply to the "soul" apply to these various things in the original language. Your spirit returns to God, and it is the source of your life. But your memories mostly die. Your self-image may or may not be retained. All these are parts of the English "soul" but are differentitated in Hebrew.
 
Mar 2, 2013
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#22
Your spirit returns to God, and it is the source of your life.
The word 'soul' comes from the word Nephesh which also means 'breath'. When a person dies, his 'breath' leaves the body and mixes with the air around him. There is no soul or spirit going back to God. Please provide proof of your statement.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#23
The word 'soul' comes from the word Nephesh which also means 'breath'. When a person dies, his 'breath' leaves the body and mixes with the air around him. There is no soul or spirit going back to God. Please provide proof of your statement.
Eccl. 12:7, Luke 23:46, Heb 12:23.
Nephesh means soul (in Hebrew thinking). Ruach is spirit. Neshama is the breath (of life). Depending on your denomination, the English word "soul", conceptually derived from the Latin "anima", may include all of the above, plus other faculties, as Aquinas' statement that we are "body and soul" influenced many groups to place every part of the human being into the soul, that was not clearly in the body.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#24
I have heard arguments for both sides. The bible talks a lot of people 'sleeping' or 'resting' when they physically die, which would indicate a period of unconsciousness. But, the bible also says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, which indicates an immediate, conscious existence away from the body.

Any thoughts?
Go with the Bible.
 
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#25
I have heard arguments for both sides. The bible talks a lot of people 'sleeping' or 'resting' when they physically die, which would indicate a period of unconsciousness. But, the bible also says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, which indicates an immediate, conscious existence away from the body.

Any thoughts?
We will live forever. As for the definition of the word "soul," I don't really have one.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#26
You can find a bit of a study entitled 'The Issues Of Death And Eternal Judgement' Here that will answer your questions on this important subject...Yahweh Shalom
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#27
The story of the rich man and Lazarus supports consciousness after death. I believe there is a type of consciousness and not sleep.
Elizabeth, in Luke chapter 16, toward the start of the chapter we see a rich man who parallels God who sent out a steward to do work for him. This was meant to show what the proper attitude of the stewards should be who god had appointed over his spiritual table by means of the Old Law Covenant. How they ought to have acted.

Then we read on to see that Jesus was saying this for the benefit of rebuke to the Pharisees (those stewards who loved prominence and riches) who were in the range of hearing him. For their handling of the table of God left the people without shepherding at their greatest moments of need: John 10:12 "But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep."

The result was that the sheep were starving to death spiritually as Lazarus in his final parable of that chapter. Matthew 9:36 "... when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd."

The rich man in that last parable is the steward trying to be like the rich man who is God in the first parable Jesus gave in Luke chapter 16. They loved riches and thought themselves deserving of the prominence and the riches. Thus they stole to themselves what belongs to God and in that made themselves as gods apart for God's will.

We see that same thing today in the church: 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." Many a preacher is a man of sin by his lusts (especially lust for money), and a son of perdition (destruction) who, like those Old Covenant religious leaders, can only make their converts twice as liable to Gehenna. Matthew 23:15 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

The dogs there in that last parable correspond to the Samaritans. Years earlier the Syrians had defeated the ten tribe kingdom of Samaria and dispersed those Israelis into the nations of the earth, all but a few who were kept to teach the religion of the Jews to the many foreignors that the Syrian king moved into Samaria to repopulate it. So they were actually now gentiles but had been educated somewhat in the Jewish religion. Yet, the common attitude of the two tribe kingdom was that they were none-the-less yet dogs of the nations.

These dogs showed more love to the natural children of Israel than did their own religious leaders who sought to get rich off of them.

So this is about the spiritual death of the Old Law Covenant (as the contract had to be dissolved for it's stewards (that fake rich man) to die to their appointment over God's table.

And of course Lazarus coming to life represents the coming to life of a New and better Covenant or contract.

The great gulf that neither side could pass over was the judgment of death to them by means of the very law they were stewards over. There would be no chance that the Old Covenant would ever be ressurected and their stewardship reinstated. If they wanted favor now, they would have to repent and find their place in the New Covenant.

I am very tired, so I hope I explained that clearly enough for you.

May God be with your heart in all you do.
 
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Feb 9, 2010
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#28
For the saint that is the only thing of them that they received when born that will live on,the soul.

The saints will put off the flesh and have a glorified body,and the spirit goes back to God who gave it.The soul will live forever.

For the sinner the soul will live on forever.

The soul will live forever for both saint and sinner and the spirit goes back to God who gave it no matter how the person acted on earth.

The saints will put off the flesh but the Bible says that the sinners worm does not die,which Jesus said that also,which seems to indicate that they will still feel the effects of the flesh after they die.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#29
Isaiah 14:11 "Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee."

Isaiah 66:24 "And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: [And why is that able to be so?] for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."

I only wish you could understand that this is a spiritual touchstone reference. It is a metaphorical picture of the effect of the memory of their destruction by the fiery wrath of God. Those are real worms refereed to there just as at Isaiah 14:11

Job 24:19-20 "Drought and heat consume the snow waters: so doth the grave those which have sinned. The womb shall forget him; the worm shall feed sweetly on him; he shall be no more remembered; and wickedness shall be broken as a tree."
 
Mar 2, 2013
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#30
Eccl. 12:7, Luke 23:46, Heb 12:23.
Nephesh means soul (in Hebrew thinking). Ruach is spirit. Neshama is the breath (of life). Depending on your denomination, the English word "soul", conceptually derived from the Latin "anima", may include all of the above, plus other faculties, as Aquinas' statement that we are "body and soul" influenced many groups to place every part of the human being into the soul, that was not clearly in the body.
And God breathed over Adam and he became a 'living soul' which means that the body is the soul. When the body/soul dies, or the last breath is breathed out, the dead soul goes into the grave and the last exhaled breath which is carbon-dioxide, mixes with the air around it. There is no soul floating around. When Jesus comes again will He raise the dead from the graves.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
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#31
What do you mean by Soul? DO you really mean Spirit? We all have a spirit AND a soul.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#32
And God breathed over Adam and he became a 'living soul' which means that the body is the soul. When the body/soul dies, or the last breath is breathed out, the dead soul goes into the grave and the last exhaled breath which is carbon-dioxide, mixes with the air around it. There is no soul floating around. When Jesus comes again will He raise the dead from the graves.
And we all have but One Spirit as it pertains to life, even as in being born again it is One Spirit that gives the many life, 1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

And that is the same spirit that is in Christ. One spirit imparts life to all things that live.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Who is certain that the [singular] spirit of the [plural] sons of men goes up to heaven, or that the [singular] spirit of the [plural] beasts goes down to the earth?" (The Bible in Basic English translates this correctly.)

Now notice the old Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible: Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Who knoweth if the [singular] spirit of the [plural] children of Adam ascend upward, and if the [singular] spirit of the [plural] beasts descend downward?"

And notice Darby's Version: Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Who knoweth the [singular] spirit of the [plural] children of men? Doth [singular] it go upwards? and the [singular] spirit of the [plural] beasts, doth [singular] it go downwards to the earth?"

This is not disputed among translators, even though some seem to have carefully worded a biased view into their translation. (I only say, "seem to have" as the truth is that it can be expressed those ways if we would understand the proper perspective so that "man" is seen as "mankind" and "the beast" means all beasts collectively.)
 
C

ChristReconcilesAll

Guest
#33
I have heard arguments for both sides. The bible talks a lot of people 'sleeping' or 'resting' when they physically die, which would indicate a period of unconsciousness. But, the bible also says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, which indicates an immediate, conscious existence away from the body.

Any thoughts?
The dead are reposing. As far as their consciousness is concerned, from the moment they die, the very next thing they will know is that they are alive with Christ regardless of how long they've been dead. There is no consciousness in death.

"The living know that they shall die, But the dead know nothing whatsoever." (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

The rich man and Lazarus is part of a five part parable in which Christ uses the false teachings of the Pharisees against them.

Immortality of the soul is the philosophy of Plato, adopted as church doctrine, that originally came from the serpent's lie in the garden of Eden.

"And saying is the serpent to the woman, 'Not to die shall you be dying'" (Genesis 3:4)

The soul is the conscious sensation resulting from the combination of the body and spirit.

"And forming is Yahweh Elohim the human of soil from the ground, and He is blowing into his nostrils the breath of the living, and becoming is the human a living soul." (Genesis 2:7)

Death is a return.

"I know that You are turning me back to death, To that house appointed for all the living." (Job 30:23)

The body returns to the soil.

"In the sweat of your face shall you eat your bread, till you return to the ground, for from it are you taken, for soil you are, and to soil are you returning." (Genesis 3:19)

The spirit returns to God. Spirit is the imperceptible power of action, life, and intelligence.

"And the soil returns to the earth just as it was, And the spirit, it returns to the One, Elohim, Who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

And the soul returns to the "unseen." The Greek "hades," literally means "unseen," which refers to the "unseen" state of a dead soul.

"The wicked shall return to the unseen, All the nations, forgetful of Elohim." (Psalms 9:17)

"For Thou wilt not be forsaking my soul in the unseen, Nor wilt Thou be giving Thy Benign One to be acquainted with decay." (Acts 2:27)

"perceiving this before, he speaks concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither forsaken in the unseen, nor was His flesh acquainted with decay" (Acts 2:31)

Scripture says the soul dies.

"The soul that is sinning--it does die." (Ezekiel 18:4)

"The soul that does sin--it does die." (Ezekiel 18:20)

Christ alone has immortality.

"He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!" (1 Timothy 6:15,16)

Believers will be immortalized when Christ returns, and unbelievers condemned to the second death will be immortalized when death is abolished at the consummation of the eons.

"The last enemy is being abolished: death." (1 Corinthians 15:26)

"Lo! a secret to you am I telling! We all, indeed, shall not be put to repose, yet we all shall be changed, in an instant, in the twinkle of an eye, at the last trump. For He will be trumpeting, and the dead will be roused incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal put on immortality. Now, whenever this corruptible should be putting on incorruption and this mortal should be putting on immortality, then shall come to pass the word which is written, Swallowed up was Death by Victory." (1 Corinthians 15:51-54)

biblical studies: What Is The Soul?
biblical studies: What Is Death?
biblical studies: The Soul and the Unseen
biblical studies: The Rich Man and Lazarus, Part One
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#34
the body is the soul..
Huh? Look at how that sounds.

Maybe God created the soul in this passage, and the body came later. That would work too.

So, if the body is the soul, what are we taking a picture of in Kirlian photography? And why can't surgeons grab it with their hands when they open you up?
 
D

danschance

Guest
#35
People who believe that the Spirit of man dies when the body dies "prove their point from citing scriptures before the death and Resurrection of Christ, generally speaking. Those who attempt to prove the spirit survives after the death of the body, for the most part point to scriptures after the death and Resurrection of Christ, generally speaking. I believe this is showing us that with out the death and Resurrection of Christ we have no hope and with it, we will be in the presence of God.

The problem comes in when we only focus in on the old testament verses only and end up with a lopsided false theology.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#36
“….Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
You can be absolutely certain that if God says "you will be with me in paradise" that is the way it will be. Please note that when Christ came in the flesh there was a change in our world, a completion. Scripture before is named by us "old" and after we named it "new". In the old part, death is always referred to as sleep, or being with ancesors. In the new it is talked of differently in several places.

Always it is clear that sin means death and through grace and blood there is life.
 
V

Vestarena

Guest
#37
And we all have but One Spirit as it pertains to life, even as in being born again it is One Spirit that gives the many life, 1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

And that is the same spirit that is in Christ. One spirit imparts life to all things that live.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Who is certain that the [singular] spirit of the [plural] sons of men goes up to heaven, or that the [singular] spirit of the [plural] beasts goes down to the earth?" (The Bible in Basic English translates this correctly.)

Now notice the old Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible: Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Who knoweth if the [singular] spirit of the [plural] children of Adam ascend upward, and if the [singular] spirit of the [plural] beasts descend downward?"

And notice Darby's Version: Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Who knoweth the [singular] spirit of the [plural] children of men? Doth [singular] it go upwards? and the [singular] spirit of the [plural] beasts, doth [singular] it go downwards to the earth?"

This is not disputed among translators, even though some seem to have carefully worded a biased view into their translation. (I only say, "seem to have" as the truth is that it can be expressed those ways if we would understand the proper perspective so that "man" is seen as "mankind" and "the beast" means all beasts collectively.)
You are apparently assuming these ''spirits'' are the consciousness of these individuals? Because that's the clue right there. It's about the consciousness. In my opinion, what spirits means here has to do with the breath of life breathed into man that gives him or her life. That's what returns to God when a person dies, yes. But that's not the person's consciousness. The soul is the whole "being"-- a whole person-- with a consciousness. A soul is a living, breathing being. Therefore, at the time of resurrection, the spirit (of life) comes back into that individual, quickening them to life again while also giving them an immortal body.
 
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Vestarena

Guest
#38
Huh? Look at how that sounds.

Maybe God created the soul in this passage, and the body came later. That would work too.

So, if the body is the soul, what are we taking a picture of in Kirlian photography? And why can't surgeons grab it with their hands when they open you up?
The PERSON is the soul. The whole PERSON. I don't know what's so hard about that to get. When God breathed into Adam the breath of life, Adam BECAME a living soul, a living being, a living person, depends on the translation. We have it so embroiled into our minds from birth that we have immortal souls that float up out of us at the time of death, we can't see past that crazy belief which is substantiated nowhere in scriptures. Yes, the spirit returns to God, that is to say, the breath of life returns to God, but Adam returned to the dust from whence he came. His mind and his consciousness died with his body because it's all one thing; a living BEING.

(Plato thought up the idea of an immortal soul that survives the body's death. St. Augustine [a student of Plato] brought that idea to Christianity when he became a Christian.)
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#39
(Plato thought up the idea of an immortal soul that survives the body's death. St. Augustine [a student of Plato] brought that idea to Christianity when he became a Christian.)
that notion has been previously debunked in other threads on this forum...

the existence of a non physical soul has been basically self evident to nearly every culture since the beginning of time...long before plato in any case...

the idea that the soul is identical with the body and dies when the body dies was invented much later...during the enlightenment of the eighteenth century...by materialistic rationalists who refused to believe in anything beyond this physical world... the idea began to infiltrate the church in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries along with all other sorts of rationalism...such as denial of miracles and denial of biblical inerrancy and things like that...
 
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Vestarena

Guest
#40
Go with the Bible.
I have to laugh Elin. Everyone says they go with the Bible but obviously have different interpretations. And everyone thinks THEIR'S is the only truly Holy Inspired truth. Explain that. I sure can't.