Does the soul live on after death?

[Vestarena]

that notion has been previously debunked in other threads on this forum...

the existence of a non physical soul has been basically self evident to nearly every culture since the beginning of time...long before plato in any case...

the idea that the soul is identical with the body and dies when the body dies was invented much later...during the enlightenment of the eighteenth century...by materialistic rationalists who refused to believe in anything beyond this physical world... the idea began to infiltrate the church in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries along with all other sorts of rationalism...such as denial of miracles and denial of biblical inerrancy and things like that...

My foot. I just finished studying Plato in a major university. You're just plain dead wrong. Your debunking is bologna. Others may have thought of a similar concept earlier, but our Christian church got the idea from St. Augustine who got it from his personal teacher Plato. It's just a fact. You can deny it all you want, but study up, how bout, on what they teach in major university history classes. I just took a few so don't tell me I heard wrong. I aced the classes. lol.

 

[HollyLoree]

that notion has been previously debunked in other threads on this forum...

the existence of a non physical soul has been basically self evident to nearly every culture since the beginning of time...long before plato in any case...

the idea that the soul is identical with the body and dies when the body dies was invented much later...during the enlightenment of the eighteenth century...by materialistic rationalists who refused to believe in anything beyond this physical world... the idea began to infiltrate the church in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries along with all other sorts of rationalism...such as denial of miracles and denial of biblical inerrancy and things like that...

This just plain isn't true. God told Adam he would DIE if he ate from the tree of good and evil, after which scriptures say when man dies, he returns to the dust of the ground. Also if it's true that other ancient cultures believed in something like the immortal soul idea, that doesn't make that concept any more credible. In fact, it takes away from its credibility. I've been told personally by some Jewish friends of mine that the Jews did not originally believe in an immortal soul, and that that concept was created later by various factors not belonging to true Judaism. In other words, it was created by Jewish cults? Ha! Even the ancient Jews had cults! Then again, Jesus talked about people that preferred to believe in fairy tales, so I imagine it came from one of those types.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

My foot. I just finished studying Plato in a major university. You're just plain dead wrong. Your debunking is bologna. Others may have thought of a similar concept earlier, but our Christian church got the idea from St. Augustine who got it from his personal teacher Plato. It's just a fact. You can deny it all you want, but study up, how bout, on what they teach in major university history classes. I just took a few so don't tell me I heard wrong. I aced the classes. lol.

i majored in history...

the existence of a non physical component of human existence that continues after death has been regarded as self evident by pretty much everyone since the dawn of civilization... all it took to lead them to the conclusion that body and soul were distinct was the simple observation that losing a body part did not result in a loss of part of your consciousness...

for homework read the twelfth tablet of the epic of gilgamesh where the spirit of enkidu returns from the underworld...see also the ancient egyptian belief in -several- 'souls' that continue to exist after death...and the hindu belief that each human being contains a fragment of the universal brahman...

for extra credit find out how many centuries plato lived before augustine...making it impossible for plato to have been a 'personal teacher' of augustine...

the christian church didn't need to 'get' the idea of an immortal soul from anywhere...practically -everyone- in the entire world believed it...including the jews and early christians...

it is -your- belief that infiltrated into christianity from the outside...namely from the seventeenth and eighteenth century materialists who argued that every aspect of the universe including human consciousness had to be a mechanical result of physical matter operating under physical laws...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

This just plain isn't true. God told Adam he would DIE if he ate from the tree of good and evil, after which scriptures say when man dies, he returns to the dust of the ground. Also if it's true that other ancient cultures believed in something like the immortal soul idea, that doesn't make that concept any more credible. In fact, it takes away from its credibility. I've been told personally by some Jewish friends of mine that the Jews did not originally believe in an immortal soul, and that that concept was created later by various factors not belonging to true Judaism. In other words, it was created by Jewish cults? Ha! Even the ancient Jews had cults! Then again, Jesus talked about people that preferred to believe in fairy tales, so I imagine it came from one of those types.

your jewish friends are mistaken...

unfortunately modern judaism has adopted rationalism more than almost any other world religion...and your friends are projecting their strictly modern belief back onto ancient judaism...

a lot of modern jewish mystics do a very similar thing when they interpret kabbalah in terms of the string theories of modern physics...

 

[Christabel]

Oh they wouldn't know but you do? I'll go with what they say. Thanks anyway. They're Christians now, by the way.

 

[danschance]

i majored in history...

the existence of a non physical component of human existence that continues after death has been regarded as self evident by pretty much everyone since the dawn of civilization... all it took to lead them to the conclusion that body and soul were distinct was the simple observation that losing a body part did not result in a loss of part of your consciousness...

for homework read the twelfth tablet of the epic of gilgamesh where the spirit of enkidu returns from the underworld...see also the ancient egyptian belief in -several- 'souls' that continue to exist after death...and the hindu belief that each human being contains a fragment of the universal brahman...

for extra credit find out how many centuries plato lived before augustine...making it impossible for plato to have been a 'personal teacher' of augustine...

the christian church didn't need to 'get' the idea of an immortal soul from anywhere...practically -everyone- in the entire world believed it...including the jews and early christians...

it is -your- belief that infiltrated into christianity from the outside...namely from the seventeenth and eighteenth century materialists who argued that every aspect of the universe including human consciousness had to be a mechanical result of physical matter operating under physical laws...

You have definitely won this argument, even if they refuse to admit it. Job well done ♥

 

[Christabel]

You may have majored in history, but I majored in English and now am just completing my degree in History as well. So we're both students of history. And we obviously still disagree about this topic. But you're not more expert than anyone else, especially not a Jew who learned his history from Jews. I think it's amazingly presumptuous to say all Jews are wrong about their own history.

 

[Vestarena]

You have definitely won this argument, even if they refuse to admit it. Job well done ♥

Well I guess if you say so. haha. Proof? Scriptural or historical proof. Not necessary! Just your say so is all we need.

 

[BibleEd]

Hi hopesprings

Good question. This is what the bible has to say about the topic. Firstly in Ecclesisastes 9 :5 it says For the living are conscious that they will die;*+but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all,*+ neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.+ [SUP]6[/SUP] Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished,+[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Droid Sans, sans-serif, Arial, Geneva] and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun[/FONT]

So this shows that the dead do not think after they are dead. Ezekiel 18:4 also says Look! All the souls*—to me they belong.+ As the soul+ of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong.+The soul that is sinning+—it itself will die

So the last part being that the soul that is sinning it itself will die shows that the soul does die and that it is not some immortal thing. We do have the hope however that soon "death will be no more" which is shown in Revelation 21:4 And he will wipe out every tear+ from their eyes, and death will be no more,+neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.+ The former things have passed away

Hope this helped!

 

[TruthFromFrank]

No. After you breath out your last breath, your soul dies and is therefore a dead soul. This dead soul is buried or cremated where it is turned into ashes. There is no Spirit flying around after death. This buried soul will only be resurrected when Jesus comes again with His first coming, to collect the saved, or with the second coming to destroy the unsaved.

 

[joeyruready]

This question can not be answered without first understanding the difference between, and relationship to one another of; body, soul and spirit. This is a subject God led me to study a few years ago. There are some 500+ verses in scripture which discuss body soul or spirit(or some combination thereof). I still have this list and the study I did; but obviously its too long to put here. Each of you can do the study for yourselves if you like.

Drawing from scripture my conclusions (not God's but mine) are that we are beings like three circles; each circle inside the other. On the outside is our body. Within our body is our soul. Within our soul is our spirit. When we are born again we become clothed with Christ and indwelled by the Spirit. So being born again, my body now contains another body, which is the body of Christ, which contains my soul which contains my spirit AND God's spirit.

The definition of body here is that which is physical. We each have a physical body and this vessel or temple or whatever you choose to call it is temporal. It will parish. It is condemned as it was born from a cursed seed. (the seed of Adam)

The soul is every part of us that is not physical. It includes our emotions and thoughts and memories.

The spirit is that which interacts with the world through our body. IT is breath, life, blood and emotion.

Jesus died for our sins. A soul clothed in Christ can not die. It is not our bodies that are born again it is our soul. When a child is born they break through water. This is how a woman knows her child is coming forth. Her water breaks. Birth is imminent. This is the symbolism that water baptism holds. It is not being dipped or immersed that symbolizes being washed clean. It is breaking through water(again) symbolizing rebirth into Christ. Death has no hold over us. We have victory over death in Christ. Remember there are two deaths. The first death is the death of the body. The second is the death of the soul. For us who are in Christ our physical body will perish, the outside is stripped away, which reveals our "new" body it is an imperishable body because it is literally God.

There is one baptism that is three, or three baptisms that are one. Just one of many representations of the nature of God in scripture. In Ephesians (4;5) one lord one faith one baptism. Yet three in Matthew 3:11 and Luke 3:16. The latter being baptisms of water spirit and fire. Understanding them, the three are one and the one are three. One baptism into God. Three baptisms; one born again,(clothed in Christ) one receiving God's spirit,(God dwelling within us) one refinement of faith(fire)(renewing of our mind). God is one yet three, body soul and spirit. We are one yet three, body soul and spirit. Baptism is one yet three, body(water) soul(fire) and spirit(spirit).

1 Peter 1:23 [SUP] [/SUP]For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Being born again of an imperishable seed means we can not die.

Romans 13:14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.

Colossians 3:12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.

1 Peter 5:5 In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.”

Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. (these souls spoke, requiring consciousness spirit and body)[SUP]10 [/SUP]They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” (pay attention to what they are asking. They are conscious and aware, and the inhabitants of the world have not yet been judged!)

 

[Agricola]

No one replied to me. A lot of confusion comes about from this due to people having different definitions of Spirit and Soul are. We all have a Spirit and SOul, problem is soul is often used to mean Spirit and vice Versa, not many people realise we have Spirit and SOul which brings more confusion.

 

[joeyruready]

And God breathed over Adam and he became a 'living soul' which means that the body is the soul. When the body/soul dies, or the last breath is breathed out, the dead soul goes into the grave and the last exhaled breath which is carbon-dioxide, mixes with the air around it. There is no soul floating around. When Jesus comes again will He raise the dead from the graves.

please consider the following verse? Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

my question to you is simple. If the verse you quoted means " that the body is the soul." How then can Matthew 10:28 or Luke 12:4-5 make any sense to you?

 

[joeyruready]

No one replied to me. A lot of confusion comes about from this due to people having different definitions of Spirit and Soul are. We all have a Spirit and SOul, problem is soul is often used to mean Spirit and vice Versa, not many people realise we have Spirit and SOul which brings more confusion.

I do believe my previous response answered this question somewhat. The truth I have found is that many people are not taught the distinct differences between body, soul and spirit as they are defined throughout scripture. They are not taught because most leaders don't know. I still hear many teachings on this subject that do not fit scripture.

 

[TomH]

My foot. I just finished studying Plato in a major university. You're just plain dead wrong. Your debunking is bologna. Others may have thought of a similar concept earlier, but our Christian church got the idea from St. Augustine who got it from his personal teacher Plato. It's just a fact. You can deny it all you want, but study up, how bout, on what they teach in major university history classes. I just took a few so don't tell me I heard wrong. I aced the classes. lol.

Amen, sister. Immortality of the soul is the philosophy of Plato, adopted as church doctrine, that originally came from the serpent's lie in the garden of Eden.


"And saying is the serpent to the woman, 'Not to die shall you be dying'" (Genesis 3:4)


The dead are reposing. As far as their consciousness is concerned, from the moment they die, the very next thing they will know is they are alive with Christ regardless of how long they've been dead, but there is no consciousness in death.


"The living know that they shall die, But the dead know nothing whatsoever." (Ecclesiastes 9:5)


The soul is the conscious sensation resulting from the combination of the body and spirit.


"And forming is Yahweh Elohim the human of soil from the ground, and He is blowing into his nostrils the breath of the living, and becoming is the human a living soul." (Genesis 2:7)


Death is a return.


"I know that You are turning me back to death, To that house appointed for all the living." (Job 30:23)


The body returns to the soil.


"In the sweat of your face shall you eat your bread, till you return to the ground, for from it are you taken, for soil you are, and to soil are you returning." (Genesis 3:19)


The spirit returns to God.


"And the soil returns to the earth just as it was, And the spirit, it returns to the One, Elohim, Who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)


And the soul returns to the "unseen."


"The wicked shall return to the unseen, All the nations, forgetful of Elohim." (Psalms 9:17)


"For Thou wilt not be forsaking my soul in the unseen, Nor wilt Thou be giving Thy Benign One to be acquainted with decay." (Acts 2:27)


"perceiving this before, he speaks concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither forsaken in the unseen, nor was His flesh acquainted with decay" (Acts 2:31)


Scripture says the soul dies.


"The soul that is sinning--it does die." (Ezekiel 18:4)


"The soul that does sin--it does die." (Ezekiel 18:20)


Christ alone has immortality.


"He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!" (1 Timothy 6:15,16)

 

[Shilo]

Sometimes itseems that soul and Spirit are used interchangeable we would need a word study done to be sure if it is the soul or Spirit being talked about.



Job 32:8-9 But there is a spirit in man ( born of the Spirit) and the inspiration of the Almighty gives them understanding. Great men are not always wise Not born of the Spirit): neither do the aged understand judgment.

[SUP]John [/SUP]3:3-8 Yeshua replied, “Very truly Itell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” [SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unlessthey are born of water and the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. [SUP]7 [/SUP]You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ [SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell whereit comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Only those who have been born again have a Spirit when they die that Spirit returns to God. The soul goes to sleep and knows nothing of what is going on after their deaths. Except the Prophets they did see thingspast their time.



1 cor 2:11-12 For what man knows the things of aman, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit ( ways of theworld)of the world, but the spirit which is of God ( Gods ways through hisSpirit who teaches us, Holy Spirit); that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God

Acts 7:59 -60 And they stoned Stephen, callingupon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, laynot this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
The Spirit that was in Stephen as a born again personw ent to be with the Lord, but the soul fell asleep and will wake at the comingof the Lord.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

The soul is like the book that records a persons life. Everything they experienced what kind of person were they honest,caring, helpful, lustful, a theif, ect. this is what will be judged at the resurrection, but the people who have been washed by the Spirit through theword do not have this judgment.

 

[Shilo]

5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify youthrough and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless atthe coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 cor 2:6-16
2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world,
nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea,the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man,save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, [SUP]16 [/SUP]for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind ofChrist.

The person who has not exceptedYeshua has his savior will die his soul will not live on after judgment is fulfilled.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of Godis eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, soalso the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after thisthe judgment:

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able tokill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Eccles 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know nothing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

 

[Shilo]

Corinthians 15:53-58

[SUP]53 [/SUP]For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, andthe mortal with immortality. [SUP]54 [/SUP]When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[SUP][[/SUP]
[SUP]55 [/SUP]“Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
[SUP]56 [/SUP]The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. [SUP]57 [/SUP]But thanks be to God! He gives us thevictory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]58 [/SUP]Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters,stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work ofthe Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

John3:15 That whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. They just go to sleep and when the awake they are with the Lord.
This is how I understand a teaching from Richard T. Ritenbaugh

 

[GreenNnice]

Are you calling the word of God Dum? I did not say any of my own words I only quoted the word of God. Here is another for you:-
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 KJV
(5) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
(6) Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

To be absent from the body (it is dead) is to be present with the Lord (we are not dead).
Alive ! Alive ! Alive ! Forevermore. My Jesus is alive, alive, forevermore.

Now, laod, brother, IF Jesus died and lived, as a firstfruits of mankind, don't we die and live, too. And, when you sleep, IS your conscious mind not moving. I am even AWARE of sometimes that I am dreaming. What about you, Laod?

Doesn't Scxripture tell us we 'sleep in Jesus.'

 

[Graybeard]

Did not Jesus preach to those who were Godly and were dead after He died and before He rose?, I remember a teaching on this but can't seem to find the Scripture about it.