Does the soul live on after death?

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hopesprings

Guest
#1
#1
I have heard arguments for both sides. The bible talks a lot of people 'sleeping' or 'resting' when they physically die, which would indicate a period of unconsciousness. But, the bible also says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, which indicates an immediate, conscious existence away from the body.

Any thoughts?
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#2
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#2
hopesprings said:
I have heard arguments for both sides. The bible talks a lot of people 'sleeping' or 'resting' when they physically die, which would indicate a period of unconsciousness. But, the bible also says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, which indicates an immediate, conscious existence away from the body.

Any thoughts?
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The story of the rich man and Lazarus supports consciousness after death. I believe there is a type of consciousness and not sleep.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#3
#3
Ezekiel 18:4, 20 KJV
(4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
(20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 
H

hopesprings

Guest
#4
#4
Elizabeth619 said:
The story of the rich man and Lazarus supports consciousness after death. I believe there is a type of consciousness and not sleep.
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I am inclined to believe that the telling of the rich man and Lazarus was a parable, and does not support a conscious existence after death :)...
 
H

hopesprings

Guest
#5
#5
Laodicea said:
Ezekiel 18:4, 20 KJV
(4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
(20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
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[SUP]21 [/SUP]“But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. Ezekiel 18:21

I guess the question is: how do you define death?
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#6
Aug 28, 2012
19,211
2,547
113
#6
Laodicea said:
Ezekiel 18:4, 20 KJV
(4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
(20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
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DUM DUM DUM...... doom and gloom....
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#7
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#7
hopesprings said:
I am inclined to believe that the telling of the rich man and Lazarus was a parable, and does not support a conscious existence after death :)...
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Parables are true-to-life stories. They were told to help illuminate the truth. Jesus would not tell a story to give one the false assumption about something.
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#8
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
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#8
“….Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
 
kardiaoangelous

kardiaoangelous

Banned
#9
Mar 15, 2013
1,245
14
0
#9
hopesprings said:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. Ezekiel 18:21

I guess the question is: how do you define death?
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I like your response to that.

John 11:26 "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Jesus obviously taught that we do not any longer die if we believe in him. And he of course means that is true if our life shows that we believe in him. John 14:24a "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: .."

We may sleep: Mark 5:39 "And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth."

But until God declares us dead, we are not dead: Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

In those few verses, together with what Ezekiel said, you have enough to understand what the reality is.

How do you see those comparisons?
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#10
#10
Blain said:
DUM DUM DUM...... doom and gloom....
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Are you calling the word of God Dum? I did not say any of my own words I only quoted the word of God. Here is another for you:-
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 KJV
(5) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
(6) Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.


 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#11
Apr 18, 2013
9,319
2,411
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#11
On the issue of Lazarus and the rich man:

1. Parables were used to teach and express spiritual truths, not spiritual falsehoods.

2. There is much debate on whether or not the story of Lazarus was a parable.
It it not a "given" that it is a parable rather than an actual anecdotal story.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#12
#12
If the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is real then Jesus would have contradicted himself when he said that people are rewarded when he returns.
Matthew 16:27
(27) for the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 25:31-33
(31) when the son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
(32) and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
(33) and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Matthew 25:34
(34) then shall the king say unto them on his right hand, come, ye blessed of my father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:41
(41) then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 22:12
(12) and, behold, i come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
 
H

hopesprings

Guest
#13
#13
Elizabeth619 said:
Parables are true-to-life stories. They were told to help illuminate the truth. Jesus would not tell a story to give one the false assumption about something.
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I totally agree with you. But, if Jesus told that 'story' to show a truth other then existence after death, then it is us who assumes something false from it. There is cause to believe that it is just a parable. Where else is Abraham's bosom spoken of in scripture? Why would people go here instead of to heaven?
 
H

hopesprings

Guest
#14
#14
maxwel said:
On the issue of Lazarus and the rich man:

1. Parables were used to teach and express spiritual truths, not spiritual falsehoods.

2. There is much debate on whether or not the story of Lazarus was a parable.
It it not a "given" that it is a parable rather than an actual anecdotal story.
Click to expand...
absolutely! But, who is to say that the spiritual truth that Jesus was trying to express was one of a conscious existence after death?
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#15
Apr 18, 2013
9,319
2,411
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#15
Loadicea,

We were discussing "eternal life of the soul" vs "sleep".

You are equating "eternal life of the soul" with:
- reward
- the coming of Christ
- judgement of the nations

Is it possible that "eternal life of the soul" is not exactly the same as all those other things?

I'm not trying to be rude, but it seems like you're equating a great many things which are just not the same.
 
H

hopesprings

Guest
#16
#16
kardiaoangelous said:
I like your response to that.

John 11:26 "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Jesus obviously taught that we do not any longer die if we believe in him. And he of course means that is true if our life shows that we believe in him. John 14:24a "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: .."

We may sleep: Mark 5:39 "And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth."

But until God declares us dead, we are not dead: Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

In those few verses, together with what Ezekiel said, you have enough to understand what the reality is.

How do you see those comparisons?
Click to expand...
Death is separation from God. That is why Jesus could call people who were living, dead. Those who live and believe in Jesus will never die...this isn't talking about physical death, it's talking about spiritual death. Although....it could also mean that those who believe in Jesus, truly believe in Him, will always be alive with him in some sense. They will never experience a time when they are separated from Him, even in physical death. Hmm....I think I need to meditate on what you have shared with me. :)
 
F

Forchrist

Guest
#17
#17
God took dirt and breathed spirit or life into it and out of that came the soul. Ie mind, will, emotions. There is no soul if there is no body. I believe we sleep until Christ comes back to give us a glorified body. We were not designed pure spirit beings like the angels, we need a body and without the body there is. No soul. There might be some level of consciousness in the spirit realm after we die but you cant say that is a soul in the traditional sense. This is a tough question and we will never know until we die...
 
D

danschance

Guest
#18
#18
Forchrist said:
God took dirt and breathed spirit or life into it and out of that came the soul. Ie mind, will, emotions. There is no soul if there is no body. I believe we sleep until Christ comes back to give us a glorified body. We were not designed pure spirit beings like the angels, we need a body and without the body there is. No soul. There might be some level of consciousness in the spirit realm after we die but you cant say that is a soul in the traditional sense. This is a tough question and we will never know until we die...
Click to expand...

[SUP]8 [/SUP]we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. 2Cor. 5:8

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. Phil 1:21
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Now I wonder why Paul said "absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord. If there is no spirit, then how is it possible to be absent from the body? Why is this preferable? In the second verse, again, we see that death is gain. If we die and nothing is left of us, that is not gain at all.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#19
#19
danschance said:
Now I wonder why Paul said "absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord. If there is no spirit, then how is it possible to be absent from the body? Why is this preferable? In the second verse, again, we see that death is gain. If we die and nothing is left of us, that is not gain at all.
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Rather than interpret the text on its own we should read the context.
2 Corinthians 5:1-4 KJV
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
(2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
(3) If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
(4) For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

When is mortality swallowed up in life?
 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 KJV
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

From the context and similar verses this happens when Jesus returns.

 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#20
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
180
63
#20
Why are people even bothering worrying or arguing about this? When you go to sleep at night are you aware that you are sleeping and time is passing? If you are, it is because you are a light sleeper and wake up several times throughout the night.

If we do go to sleep after death it won't be a "light" sleep. We will be zonked out like I was when I got my wisdom teeth pulled. I could have been under for 10 seconds or 10 hours, I wouldn't have known the difference, it was moreorless instantaneous to me.

So it will be if we "sleep" after death. I do not particularly believe this, nevertheless it should bring closure to this topic.
 
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