In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

[GreenNnice]

Paul ”suffers not a woman to teach or have authority over a man,” which brings up the interpretive gray area of just what IS ”authority” defined as in the church .

But, for the sake of not being more divided toward God's others on here, thinking this idea.different than I, here is a slant angle different than the 'curve' thrown by me in other threads regarding the very understanding of the word, ”authority,' as defined as Paul's intended meaning in the 1st century A.D. via this incredible verse of 1 Timothy 2:12 that leaves so many both incredulous and dumbfounded in their thinking.

But, yes, the question is VERY simple I ask you now:



Does Paul tell women ANYWHERE in Scripture they are NEVER to preach or teach to a man in a church setting?

We know that Paul outlines that if a man desires to be a bishop (pastor) then he is to be the husband of one wife. 1 Tim. 3:1
But, does this PROVE to YOU beyond a shadow,of a doubt that a man can only be appointed (called) by God to the pulpit , to preach/teach. Again, as I stated earlier in this OP (opening post), I don't use words ”have authority,” because we are ALL, ultimately, subject to Christ Jesus , even though Scripture is clear that a husband (this ”husband” word does NOT mean ”man.”) does have authority over his wife and also she is to ”submit” to her husband.

Now, this all said, don't vote without also explaining in a 'reply' post of why you said 'yes' to Scripture that verbaTim, or, so close to verbatim, there can be NO argument or debate as to why you can say 'yes.'

 

[kenisyes]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

It's an artefact of translation. The Greek does not say what the English says that it does.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

I voted no speciffically as to the question, "In the word does it surely say, "A woman is never allowed to teach a man."?

The Greek word there at 1 Timothy 2:12, which is translated "suffer" means that Paul personally did not allow it.

We should want to understand why instead of simply enforcing rote rules as if they are a recreation of that Old Law code.

Paul could not allow it in the circumstances those congregations were in as it would have violated love by stumbling the so many that held the idea that woman were to be only silently submissive to men. That was a rabbinical tradition based upon their interpretation of how they say God organized the structure under that Old Law.

But the truth of the matter is that the Hebrews had that tradition before the Old Law as evidenced by Abraham's unwillingness to listen to Sarah before God commanded him to listen to her.

So God gave them that Old Law based upon their own mindset rather than making an issue out of it. And that was because God wanted them to put their mindset to test with that Old Law to prove to them that their ways were not so righteous as they thought and thus prepare them to receive a better way in Christ.

However, when it comes to a woman with children spending too much time as some of the positions would require, we must consider that would be unfair to the children, and thus that would violate love.

Why do you think Satan has lead this world to make it so women have to work to survive in today's society? It is a way to hasten the spiritual decline of the women whom Proverbs tells us dispense the law of their husband and thus hasten the weakening of our children.

There must be an orderly familial way of assuring our children's spiritual education and to leave it up in the air as to who shoulders that leaves too much room for many children's needs to fall through the cracks.

I here have given you an example of how right is determined by love rather than law. And Paul was who I learned that from.

 

[BananaPie]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

The real issue is authority. Who exactly is in control and full authority?
Is it the men, or is it the women, or is not the Lord the chief cornerstone of the Church still?
What does it matter? Should it matter who is in authority and control of a Church?

Yes, God's excellent opinion does matter. These women preachers hunger for full control of the assemblies they have created for their own glorification. They are predictable in their authoritative control over men, and they seldom yield authority to anybody, let alone submit themselves to a man with preaching capacity. They would rather hire a man to teach Sunday school toddlers than to hire a man to be senior pastor, for crying out loud.

The question then becomes: what are the saints doing about it? Do we agree with God's established structure for His Church, or do we go apostate after these women?

 

[starfield]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

Pastoring is an authoritative position and as per the scripture women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church. This authority issue is related to creation order (the man was created before the woman, 1 Tim 2:13), which implies male headship in the church, the fact that Eve was deceived by the devil (1 Tim 2:14), as well as the divine curse on the woman (Gen 3:16 "...and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee"). 1 Cor 14:34 says Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law, and vs. 37 says "...the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord"; so it was not Paul's mere opinion but divine regulation and we are to accept God's word.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

According to the Word of God, women are not allowed to preach to men. Does that men men can't learn from women preachers. Heavens no.

Do you know what i like about Joyce Meyers? She plainly teaches that her ministry is to and for women, Yet there are men in her congregation. Her message is to women, her message is for women. Does that mean men can't learn from her? or can't listen to her? God forbid no. i myself have listened and learned things from Joyce Meyers. Does that make me evil? Does it make her evil because i learned something from her? No and No. i think she is a good teacher. But she is right in saying that she only teaches women, that her message is to women and for women.
It is only against God when women have messages to teach men, or for women to teach husbands. It is not Godly for women to usurp authority over men, just as it is not Godly for children to usurp authority over parents. Does that mean men are better than women? or that parents are better then children? Heavens no. But God set up an order of things, and He wants His children to abide by those orders. A Captain is no better than a private, they are both men. Yet one has the authority over the other. This does not make one better then that other, only there is an ORDER of things.

^i^

 

[GreenNnice]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

Where does it say in Scripture, DD, a man is NEVER to learn a message of preaching from a woman ?


Whoever wants to say 'yes' to the poll question please do show everyone where your ”revelation from Jesus Christ' is shown you this truth legending in your own mind

Again, this is a simple poll test, I've done other threads staunchly defending women having AUTHORITY to speak to a man IF called by God , through revelation of Jesus Christ , to lead a church. So, this is simply past all that 'authority' explaining of Paul totally upset at women and I asking a simple question and asking where Scripture says, where Paul.says, where ANYONE says outright: A woman is NEVER to preach to a man.'
The truth is easy to see, I don't need to nag anyone about the answer to my question. I don't want to upset anyone either, just it's important to understand that Paul is NOT God and God IS over us all. And, yes, milady, starryfields and , milady, banananapie, God, indeed, set up the ORDER of church teaching and church authority, nowhere does Scriprure state that God will NEVER use a woman (pastor or teacher) to teach men. The situation will be RARE, I fully admit, but to make a blanket statement that a woman is to NEVER teach or preach to a man is one step from snuffing out and suffocating just what ALL.our mighty God WE SERVE can do. He can do ALL things. He is all and all.


So, yes, please, those that stopped to my thread here and put 'Yes' as their answer to my question, don't even want to know why you for your own reasoning said 'yes,' I want to see Scripture shown for why a man is to NEVER be taught a bible lesson or sermon by a woman.
Use 1 Timothy 2 to defend yourself or use another passage to.defend. Don't just say 'NEVER' with a 'yes' vote because that just means to me: 'no.'

The burden of proof MUST come from His Word. Scripture it to us, please

Yes. No.

 

[CDavid]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

Paul says he does not allow for women to teach men.
He has a point, especially when teaching young men. How can a woman teach what it takes to be a real man.
I teach heating and air conditioning. In order to teach this I am required to hold a state license to do the work. Before I could qualify to even take the journeyman test , I was required to have three years apprentice experience, doing the work, then at least another year journeyman experience before taking the contractor test. In order to teach others to be heat and air service men, you must be a heat and air service man. Only a real man is qualified to teach young men, what it takes to be a man.
A woman can hold the office of bishop or deacon, so long as she is the husband of one wife.

 

[tribesman]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman MUST be allowed to preach to men, else God is unjust.” ?

 

[GreenNnice]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

* A woman can hold the office of bishop or deacon, so long as she is the WIFE of one husband.

Cdavid: A woman can hold the office of bishop or deacon, so long as she is the husband of one wife.

Again, this gets tricky, and, not singling out the meaning error, just using it, seeDavid, to explain some more things....

Does it say in Scripture that a bishop MUST ALWAYS be the husband of one wife, or, does it say a bishop MUST ALWAYS be the only choice gender as a bishop?

The answer is 'no.' A woman CAN be called by God to be a bishop too, not likely, as God set things up in His economy and Adam was formed FIRST, then, Eve (1 Tim. 2:13)/ Yes, there IS an order and IF a woman is going to be considered for a bishop/pastor/teaching position over men then she will need to be called by God. And, now that we think about it, aren't men pastors called by God, too, to take on that office of church leadership, and, again, I am VERY careful, throwing around the word 'authority,' because Christ, His Spirit in us, has authority over us, but I do not deny, as Gen. 2:!6 says, and, milady, starryfields pointed out, the man will rule over the woman in marriage. But, IF a woman pastor is in a church setting is she preaching to her husband or is she preaching to just a bunch of men in the congregation, listening to her but filtering EVERY word said through the Spirit inside their temple, who IS teaching them
ALL things ?

In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman MUST be allowed to preach to men, else God is unjust.” ?

You trying to mirror my thought there, tribers?? Extrapolation? Fabrication?

 

[Sose]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

i does but even Im septical within the bible of what other say within the bible go by Jesus as our only example for sure about thing in the bible , for example if you believe in what moses say in the old testament about its ok to remarry then your going to hell cause Jesus clarifies this and even Jesus him self corrects that moses is wrong and it adultry and not ok.

 

[kenisyes]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

*

Does it say in Scripture that a bishop MUST ALWAYS be the husband of one wife, or, does it say a bishop MUST ALWAYS be the only choice gender as a bishop?

The situation is WAY worse, Green. There are denominations that interpret this as: exactly one wife, at most one wife, and at least one wife. The Greek does not make it clear which. Also, since all traditional non-oriental languages use the masculine for mixed groups, the extension is easy to make that "wife" means "spouse".

 

[Stephen63]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

The real issue is authority. Who exactly is in control and full authority?
Is it the men, or is it the women, or is not the Lord the chief cornerstone of the Church still?
What does it matter? Should it matter who is in authority and control of a Church?

Yes, God's excellent opinion does matter. These women preachers hunger for full control of the assemblies they have created for their own glorification. They are predictable in their authoritative control over men, and they seldom yield authority to anybody, let alone submit themselves to a man with preaching capacity. They would rather hire a man to teach Sunday school toddlers than to hire a man to be senior pastor, for crying out loud.

The question then becomes: what are the saints doing about it? Do we agree with God's established structure for His Church, or do we go apostate after these women?

Examples, please

 

[GreenNnice]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

The real issue is authority. Who exactly is in control and full authority?
Is it the men, or is it the women, or is not the Lord the chief cornerstone of the Church still?
What does it matter? Should it matter who is in authority and control of a Church?

Yes, God's excellent opinion does matter. These women preachers hunger for full control of the assemblies they have created for their own glorification. They are predictable in their authoritative control over men, and they seldom yield authority to anybody, let alone submit themselves to a man with preaching capacity. They would rather hire a man to teach Sunday school toddlers than to hire a man to be senior pastor, for crying out loud.

The question then becomes: what are the saints doing about it? Do we agree with God's established structure for His Church, or do we go apostate after these women?

Hitting on what Stevestephen exuded thought of from my green brains, and, no, not accusing or picking on you mizzanananapie, but, this response seems fabricated, a lie of thought, propaganda even . why say 'these women' ? Why assume, milady, that these women in church of Ephesus that Paul is chiding --Paul's chiding the men, too, do note-are 'women preachers.' I fail to see any connection whatsoever, so, either expand with just thinking what you mean by this or take this thought of women being preacher minded outta here . Scripture does not infer The slightest bit ANY of these women in 1 Timothy 2 were women preachers. What were these women then? They are women who are NOT in a position of leadership in The church yet they are bossing around The men like they are in control, in authority over them, in THIS way, bananapieana, are ”these women”.in verses of 1 Tim. 2: 11,12

”
A woman a should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; b she must be quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women c will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
This passage, its context, is not to 'women preachers,' it is to average, everyday women, who are in the home raising kids which is the proper place of most women. Most The Lord leads....

 

[Stephen63]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

BananaPie where are my examples? And please don't use those nuts on TV.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Re: In the Word does it surely say, ”A woman is NEVER allowed to preach to a man.” ?

Where does it say in Scripture, DD, a man is NEVER to learn a message of preaching from a woman ?

i never said that men can't learn from a woman preacher, you have misunderstood. i make it clear that many men have learned from Joyce Meyers, this is not evil nor wrong. But i have said elsewhere that Joyce Meyers plainly tells you her ministry it to the women. This is right and Godly. Can men learn from her teaching, sure, and they do learn from her teaching, is that evil? No it's not, nor have i said it is. you have misunderstood.

Again, this is a simple poll test, I've done other threads staunchly defending women having AUTHORITY to speak to a man IF called by God , through revelation of Jesus Christ , to lead a church.

You asked me to show you Scriptures where a man can never learn from a woman. i ask you now to do the same, show me any Scriptures that change the verse women are not to usurp authority over men, and teaches what you just said above. If then you can't show Scriptures confirming what you say above, then it is your opinion is it not?

So, this is simply past all that 'authority' explaining of Paul totally upset at women and I asking a simple question and asking where Scripture says, where Paul.says, where ANYONE says outright: A woman is NEVER to preach to a man.'

The same can be asked of you as well, Can you show any Scriptures that teach women can preach to men? Or is that your opinion what you believe?

The truth is easy to see, I don't need to nag anyone about the answer to my question. I don't want to upset anyone either, just it's important to understand that Paul is NOT God and God IS over us all.

So then am i to understand you correctly that you do not believe the Word of God? i mean, the Word of God plainly teaches that what Paul taught is inspired by the Holy Ghost, that what he taught is from God. So then if Paul is not teaching what God wants Paul to teach, why did God allow the teaching of Paul to be allowed in His Word?

And, yes, milady, starryfields and , milady, banananapie, God, indeed, set up the ORDER of church teaching and church authority, nowhere does Scriprure state that God will NEVER use a woman (pastor or teacher) to teach men.

Likewise, nowhere does Scriptures teach women CAN teach men.

The situation will be RARE, I fully admit, but to make a blanket statement that a woman is to NEVER teach or preach to a man is one step from snuffing out and suffocating just what ALL.our mighty God WE SERVE can do. He can do ALL things. He is all and all.

Nobody is saying that men can't learn from women preachers, such as Joyce Meyers, we are only saying that women are not to have authority over men. Women, according to the Word of God are to teach women, as it is plainly written.

So, yes, please, those that stopped to my thread here and put 'Yes' as their answer to my question, don't even want to know why you for your own reasoning said 'yes,' I want to see Scripture shown for why a man is to NEVER be taught a bible lesson or sermon by a woman.
Use 1 Timothy 2 to defend yourself or use another passage to.defend. Don't just say 'NEVER' with a 'yes' vote because that just means to me: 'no.'

The burden of proof MUST come from His Word. Scripture it to us, please

Yes. No.

His Word says plainly women are to keep silent in the Churches, that they are not permitted to usurp aurthority over men, That is what His Word plainly teaches, the problem is you do not believe those verses do you? Because you don't believe those verses, but believe something contrary to those verses written in the inspired Word of God, you have to come up with your own reasoning as to why they verses are not right, such as saying that Paul is not God nor speaks for God, therefore this allows you to not believe what Paul teaches, correct? You say you want burden of proof, but when the proof in the Word of God is shown to you, you believe it not, therefore you do not seek proof, but what you seek is confirmation from others to agree with what you believe.

^i^