Puppetmaster

[Messenger_T]

There was a man who made two puppets. One puppet he made to scare the crowd and cause them to fear. The other puppet he made to look kind and cause people to laugh and love the man who made him.

One day the puppets came to life.

The good puppet asked the man why he made him and the man said "Cause I love you and I will use you to make the people love me''.

The bad puppet asked the man the same question. The man said ''Cause I need you to be bad so I can make sure the crowd knows I love them''.

The puppet said ''We serve the same purpose''?

The man replied ''Yes''.

The puppet then said ''Why can;t we both be good''?

The man said ''Cause I am the man who created you and you must serve your purpose. And furthermore, because you are a bad puppet that I created, you will be burned when you are no longer needed''.

Confused the puppet asked of the man ''Then make me good so I will not be burned''.

The man said ''Does not matter if you want to be good or not, you will be destroyed''.

From then on out the puppet sought favor with the man, but the man would not listen to the puppet.

The good puppet confused by this as well asked the man ''Whom do you love, me or the the bad puppet''?

Man replied ''Both of you''.

The good puppet then asked ''Why destroy the bad puppet whom YOU made to be bad and yet desires to be good to serve the same purpose''?

The man did not answer the good puppet even after several times being asked this.

Eventually the good puppet became confused with no answer and lost trust in the man who created him because he never understood why the man could not have created both of them to serve in love, when through no choice of their own they NEITHER had the choice to show love.

So both lived out their lives.. One eventually to be burned through no fault of it's own and the other to be saved through no favor of it's own. Neither having ANY choice, they never understood what love was.

Both resolved to be forced to act out the will of the man who made them. Both realizing they were just puppets all along with strings that were never removed. Never realizing why they were brought to life to begin with.

Never understanding love at all.

 

[kenisyes]

It's a good thing we're not puppets.

 

[homwardbound]

There was a man who made two puppets. One puppet he made to scare the crowd and cause them to fear. The other puppet he made to look kind and cause people to laugh and love the man who made him.

One day the puppets came to life.

The good puppet asked the man why he made him and the man said "Cause I love you and I will use you to make the people love me''.

The bad puppet asked the man the same question. The man said ''Cause I need you to be bad so I can make sure the crowd knows I love them''.

The puppet said ''We serve the same purpose''?

The man replied ''Yes''.

The puppet then said ''Why can;t we both be good''?

The man said ''Cause I am the man who created you and you must serve your purpose. And furthermore, because you are a bad puppet that I created, you will be burned when you are no longer needed''.

Confused the puppet asked of the man ''Then make me good so I will not be burned''.

The man said ''Does not matter if you want to be good or not, you will be destroyed''.

From then on out the puppet sought favor with the man, but the man would not listen to the puppet.

The good puppet confused by this as well asked the man ''Whom do you love, me or the the bad puppet''?

Man replied ''Both of you''.

The good puppet then asked ''Why destroy the bad puppet whom YOU made to be bad and yet desires to be good to serve the same purpose''?

The man did not answer the good puppet even after several times being asked this.

Eventually the good puppet became confused with no answer and lost trust in the man who created him because he never understood why the man could not have created both of them to serve in love, when through no choice of their own they NEITHER had the choice to show love.

So both lived out their lives.. One eventually to be burned through no fault of it's own and the other to be saved through no favor of it's own. Neither having ANY choice, they never understood what love was.

Both resolved to be forced to act out the will of the man who made them. Both realizing they were just puppets all along with strings that were never removed. Never realizing why they were brought to life to begin with.

Never understanding love at all.

and is why God decided to have Mercy to all and for all, still giving us free choice via the cross of Christ
It is through the cross that we all each by free choice can choose life and God who has had Mercy available to all is shown by Christ at the cross of christ, first the death, the redemption
Romans 3:24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Colossians 1:14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Then after the death at the cross came the resurrection a new life in God's Spirit for all that believe

1. John 3:5
   Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
   John 3:4-6 (in Context) John 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. John 3:6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
   John 3:5-7 (in Context) John 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3. John 3:8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
   
   By the resurrection is how we are born again here and now in the newness of our miind seeing all things from God the Father's vantage point
   Romans 12:2
   Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
   
   being born again and thus we can live through any travail here on earth knowing all our treasures are safe stored in heaven where thieves can't break in
4. John 3:3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
   John 3:2-4 (in Context) John 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
5. John 3:7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
   John 3:6-8 (in Context) John 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
6. 1 Peter 1:23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
   1 Peter 1:22-24 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
   
   
   
7. Matthew 6:19[ Treasures in Heaven ] “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
   Matthew 6:18-20 (in Context) Matthew 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
8. Matthew 6:20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
   And know this by Faith in God
   you have treasures stored for you in heaven, by putting God as your life, not self, knowing that somehow, not know how, but again somehow all yuor needs will be supplied and this is excercising Faith in God not taking it for granted
   
   

 

[crossnote]

Sounds like straw-man puppets.
If it is an attack on Calvinism it should read'God made all puppets good,they all went bad, then He had merfy on some.

 

[Messenger_T]

it is a story of puppets.

 

[everystrangerisafriend]

I am confused...
or bothered O_O
not sure >.<

 

[Messenger_T]

Just saying what do you think about the puppets? Or the man?
Or the people they are trying to convince of the love of the man?

 

[everystrangerisafriend]

Not sure...
Thought the story really made me upset... :'(

I don't really think it's love... How can that be love?

I kinda remembered what Pastor Ed Lapiz said that to love is to let the ones we love have dignity...
have choices...

I guess, what made me upset is that thought of not being able to have a choice at all...
What would be the sense of it?

ENLIGHTEN ME... >.<

 

[crossnote]

it is a story of puppets.

If not a cariacture on Calvinism what is the analogy? It defnitely doesn't depict the God of Scripture.
And if just a story on puppets maybe it should go in the Poetry forum?

 

[Grandpa]

There was a man with two puppets. They were both bad puppets. But one day, one of the puppets cried out to the man and said "Please, I don't want to be a bad puppet anymore, I want to be good like you are good".

After many times crying out to the man, the man had grace and mercy on this poor puppets soul and saved the puppet from the sure destruction he was headed to...

The end

 

[everystrangerisafriend]

There was a man with two puppets. They were both bad puppets. But one day, one of the puppets cried out to the man and said "Please, I don't want to be a bad puppet anymore, I want to be good like you are good".

After many times crying out to the man, the man had grace and mercy on this poor puppets soul and saved the puppet from the sure destruction he was headed to...

The end

I miss having a grandparent O_O

 

[Grandpa]

I miss having a grandparent O_O

Me too...

Over

 

[Messenger_T]

The story is to illustrate what LOVE is. And not what it is not. Calvinism may be a thought....but does this not speak of many religions? Who tend to go toward GOD making THEM to be saved and if you are NOT them then you are not saved.

 

[everystrangerisafriend]

The story is to illustrate what LOVE is. And not what it is not. Calvinism may be a thought....but does this not speak of many religions? Who tend to go toward GOD making THEM to be saved and if you are NOT them then you are not saved.

I'm really sorry... but will you please illustrate further without the Calvinism stuff?
So that I may be able to sleep already :3

 

[Messenger_T]

What is the devision of man and God? What seperates other men from each other when GOD made us all in His image? Why do we suppose we must have different versions of the same truth?

this is not a story of calvinism it is a story of two puppets who were made by the same man who of NO choice of their own was chosen by the man to SHOW love of Him to others. One by his destruction and the other by his salvation. Yet one chosen to be saved and the other not.

Choice is of the puppet or the man who made them?

Or is the choice in the desire of the puppet to be saved?

Or is salvation in the choice of the puppet as the man loves them both whom he made.

 

[1still_waters]

The greatest argument against limited atonement is the fact that not everyone is saved.

 

[everystrangerisafriend]

What is the devision of man and God? What seperates other men from each other when GOD made us all in His image? Why do we suppose we must have different versions of the same truth?

this is not a story of calvinism it is a story of two puppets who were made by the same man who of NO choice of their own was chosen by the man to SHOW love of Him to others. One by his destruction and the other by his salvation. Yet one chosen to be saved and the other not.

Choice is of the puppet or the man who made them?

Or is the choice in the desire of the puppet to be saved?

Or is salvation in the choice of the puppet as the man loves them both whom he made.

Thanks, got it... I can now sleep in peace :3

it's actually a good illustration now that it's all stitching up in my head...not so upsetting now.
God bless

 

[Messenger_T]

Christ died so that ALL might be saved. Not that ALL will be saved.

Limited atonement that comes from an unlimited Grace is only given to those who were chosen for the atonement.

Why then sacrfice anything in order for those already chosen for the atonement? Seems like a great waste of PERFECT life.

Such is any religion that states that God died ONLY for a religion defined by a man.

 

[1still_waters]

Christ died so that ALL might be saved. Not that ALL will be saved.

Limited atonement that comes from an unlimited Grace is only given to those who were chosen for the atonement.

Why then sacrfice anything in order for those already chosen for the atonement? Seems like a great waste of PERFECT life.

Such is any religion that states that God died ONLY for a religion defined by a man.

Sure is hard trying to comprehend an infinite mind using a finite mind.

Romans 11
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”[SUP][i][/SUP]
[SUP]35 [/SUP]“Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”[SUP][j][/SUP]

[SUP]36 [/SUP]For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

Romans 9
[SUP]19 [/SUP]You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” [SUP]20 [/SUP]But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” [SUP]21 [/SUP]Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
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God's ways ain't our ways, and we can't go wipin away what he revealed cuz it doesn't make sense or doesn't answer all of our leading questions that are aimed at diminishing the parts of the revelation that seem offensive to our limited understanding.

 

[1still_waters]

The finite human mind is great at seeing a clearly revealed truth.
Then finding said revealed truth offensive or hard to understand.
As a way of wiping away the offensive truth, the human then crafts all of these complicated questions that lead us into thinking said revealed truth isn't possible due to said implications that seem oh so offensive to us.

Humans need to quit crafting all these "leading questions" and complicated conjectures.
Instead they need to bow their knee, and shut their mouths, and accept said revealed truths, and understand that there are things of God that seem offensive, simply because we can't understand them.