for we wrestle not against flesh and blood - what does it mean?

[Mooky]

ln practical terms I understand Ephesians 6:12 to be referring to the fact that we wrestle against demonic spirits.But what does Paul mean by "wrestle" and as for the demons.....do they work through human agencies or are they the ones who put thoughts in our heads or is Paul referring to the fortresses which set themselves up against the knowledge of God?

 

[danschance]

There is an epic war raging on all around us that we can not see with our eyes. It is a spiritual war. Satan, fallen angels and demons are opposing God and trying to turn the hearts of humans against God.

 

[Bookreader]

The enemy is us.
Has been since God gave us freewill.

Having freewill allowed man to do things against God. Which is ultimately against our selves.
Our temptation is from within.
Trying to blame external beings for it is lazy and just an abdication of responsibility.

When we fail and fall short (i.e. when we sin) it is because we succumb to part of our freewill that wants to do what we know is wrong.

The things we wrestle with are in one way flesh and blood (because we are encased in it) and in another way not because our spiritual tussle is ourselves vs. ourselves. Our will against our will.
Those who try to follow the life of Christ overcome temptation (and we were told by Jesus that is a good thing to pray for, help in resisting temptation).

The Bible says God does not tempt us.
Neither does it say angels tempt us.
The deceiver and adversary is ourselves - those words should be translated, not made into pagan-style monsters we can blame our failures on.

 

[starfield]

The enemy is us.

So we are the spiritual wickedness in high places, the rulers of darkness of this world?

Having freewill allowed man to do things against God. Which is ultimately against our selves.
Our temptation is from within.
Trying to blame external beings for it is lazy and just an abdication of responsibility.

So Jesus' temptation was from within, in other words He tempted Himself?

Neither does it say angels tempt us.

Who tempted Jesus?

If diabolical spiritual entities (Satan, demons, and fallen angels) do not exist then what are these passages referring to:
2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

The deceiver and adversary is ourselves - those words should be translated, not made into pagan-style monsters we can blame our failures on.

So we are as a roaring lion, walking about and devouring ourselves?
How do you reconcile what you're saying with this passage: 1 Pet 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.

 

[justamazed]

ln practical terms I understand Ephesians 6:12 to be referring to the fact that we wrestle against demonic spirits.But what does Paul mean by "wrestle" and as for the demons.....do they work through human agencies or are they the ones who put thoughts in our heads or is Paul referring to the fortresses which set themselves up against the knowledge of God?

Beloved, please help and believe what I say. I fight with these every day here! We wrestle not with flesh and blood. What this means is that no man is your enemy because no flesh and blood can enter the kingdom of God.

but against principalities.An example of this is being gay. We all know that it is wrong by nature for OBVIOUS reasons but what's the truth? People are gay, whether we understand it or not. Against powers. By law, following it produces worldly gain. Again we know a man and a woman can atleast make a baby. A man and a man cannot and thus the law profits him none.


We see this all over our world as advantage is gained by worldly methods. Now a man in most parts of the country can get up to three years for a bag of crack cocaine worth about $250. In those three years the various institutions of the prison system will make a MINIMUM of $120,000 off of him! By these and MANY, MANY, MANY MORE the rich has profited by the power of the law.

But the enemy is not those who run the system. They are simply doing what we would most likely do ourselves. The enemy is in fact THE SYSTEM. Our fight is against the power of what holds each and every last one of us subjected. OUR OWN MINDS!

Before you dismiss that notion can I ask you, if there are 15 million homes empty here in America that cannot be filled NOW and only 3 million homeless who for whatever reason cannot afford one, WHY NOT SIMPLYL GIVE THEM AWAY.

Now I want you to think about this!!! WHATEVER reason you can come up with that is against giving them away, IS WHAT WE AND THE WHOLE WORLD WRESTLES WITH!

We have the technology, the brains, the resources, the man power, and the knowledge to HOUSE CLOTHE, FEED, AND SUPPLY ALL OF MANKIND WITH ALL THEIR NEEDS FREE OF CHARGE. If mankind were to WORK TOGETHER to better one another instead of going to war to hold on to something that no one can take with them, all crime would stop. And that's what EVERY MAN WANTS!

Against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Those who rule by the things we create are not at fault. Because they can only have the power WE THE PEOPLE GIVE THEM.

I might be alone in saying this but to each his own. But if I KNOW I DIE, I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH A DIAMOND CAN SHINE, IT'S JUST A PRETTY ROCK. But by things such as being attracted to those pretty rocks, or I-Pad, or car, or house, or guy, or girl, we have worked all these thousands of years for to attain, WE DID IT. Look around you at what we can do now. We have the technology to build a house in under 2 hours out of far better material. But there is no profit in that.

Just like war. When our children are drafted into the next war I'm trying so desperately to PREVENT, what will they get in return? Yet those who own the oil companies, and the steel factories, and the aviation and automobile makers, what do they stand to get from a senseless war? BILLIONS!

All powered by our own minds. Christ is simple. If you have enough and someone is in need, give it to them.

Sorry it's so long, but if you do read please consider my words. What do we have to lose?

 

[justamazed]

To add, what do you really think we would be going to war for? Not for oil, they ALREADY HAD THAT. No. The profit they seek now is the elimination of most of us! The top 2% who runs this crooked system can only be a few thousand tops!!! WE ARE 7 BILLION STRONG AND ARE NOW TOO MANY (BY MEANS OF THE INTERNET) TO CONTROL!

 

[Mooky]

There is an epic war raging on all around us that we can not see with our eyes. It is a spiritual war. Satan, fallen angels and demons are opposing God and trying to turn the hearts of humans against God.

Thanks - I knew that already - see the specifics of my question.

 

[danschance]

ln practical terms I understand Ephesians 6:12 to be referring to the fact that we wrestle against demonic spirits.But what does Paul mean by "wrestle" and as for the demons.....do they work through human agencies or are they the ones who put thoughts in our heads or is Paul referring to the fortresses which set themselves up against the knowledge of God?

This spiritual war of satan on humanity is very complicated. Yes, this war against us is primarily fought in the battlefield of our minds. Satan can tempt anyone, even Jesus. Satan can even suggest that we do evil deeds. Some people give themselves over to their sin and others give themselves directly to be agents of satan.

From the bible we see that there is a spiritual analogue to earthly governments in Daniel 10:13. I believe these spiritual governments do their best to sway governments to also sin, enact sinful laws, start wars and foment persecution of the saints. I also believe that territorial spirits work from the highest levels of governments down to cities, regions, districts and even neighborhoods.

Individual persons also can be influenced by demons by temptation. Demon possession is far more common than most Christians realize. Once a person gives in to a sin it can be a demonic stronghold and one can be possessed (or whatever term you wish to call it), even a Christian. Judas Iscariot is a good example of this. He had a serious sin issue with money. We even see him argue about how a woman anointed Jesus with expensive perfume and how the perfume could be sold for money. No doubt Judas became satan's pawn as he sold out Jesus.

What happened to Judas can happen to anyone, even a Christian. It starts out with temptation. Then progress' to a habit and then demons can even invade the person and continue to steer them toward more sin. Ted Bundy said that he believed his moral decline started when he viewed pornography at an early age. at some point he gave himself over more and more to his fantasies. Then it turned into murdering women as part of his sexual fantasies.

The good news is God is also at work and we as human have free will to embrace God or sin. If we embrace God demons tend to loose their power over their victims as our spiritual armor grows.

Below is an interview with mass murder Ted Bundy one day before his execution. At around 3:50 he starts talking about how it started with porn and said his porn issues "crystallized" into something like an entity. Keep in mind, he grew up in a Christian home and attended church with his parents.

[video=youtube;MHq26RxB7WU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHq26RxB7WU[/video]

 

[jb]

The enemy is us.
Has been since God gave us freewill.

Having freewill allowed man to do things against God. Which is ultimately against our selves.
Our temptation is from within.
Trying to blame external beings for it is lazy and just an abdication of responsibility.

When we fail and fall short (i.e. when we sin) it is because we succumb to part of our freewill that wants to do what we know is wrong.

The things we wrestle with are in one way flesh and blood (because we are encased in it) and in another way not because our spiritual tussle is ourselves vs. ourselves. Our will against our will.
Those who try to follow the life of Christ overcome temptation (and we were told by Jesus that is a good thing to pray for, help in resisting temptation).

The Bible says God does not tempt us.
Neither does it say angels tempt us.
The deceiver and adversary is ourselves - those words should be translated, not made into pagan-style monsters we can blame our failures on.

The Bible differentiates between the world, the flesh and the Devil and so should we! 1John 2v14-16

 

[Mooky]

This is an incredible interview and a great description of what spiritual warfare entails.Thanks for sharing -a very sober warning for anyone who thinks of dabbling with pornography.

This spiritual war of satan on humanity is very complicated. Yes, this war against us is primarily fought in the battlefield of our minds. Satan can tempt anyone, even Jesus. Satan can even suggest that we do evil deeds. Some people give themselves over to their sin and others give themselves directly to be agents of satan.

From the bible we see that there is a spiritual analogue to earthly governments in Daniel 10:13. I believe these spiritual governments do their best to sway governments to also sin, enact sinful laws, start wars and foment persecution of the saints. I also believe that territorial spirits work from the highest levels of governments down to cities, regions, districts and even neighborhoods.

Individual persons also can be influenced by demons by temptation. Demon possession is far more common than most Christians realize. Once a person gives in to a sin it can be a demonic stronghold and one can be possessed (or whatever term you wish to call it), even a Christian. Judas Iscariot is a good example of this. He had a serious sin issue with money. We even see him argue about how a woman anointed Jesus with expensive perfume and how the perfume could be sold for money. No doubt Judas became satan's pawn as he sold out Jesus.

What happened to Judas can happen to anyone, even a Christian. It starts out with temptation. Then progress' to a habit and then demons can even invade the person and continue to steer them toward more sin. Ted Bundy said that he believed his moral decline started when he viewed pornography at an early age. at some point he gave himself over more and more to his fantasies. Then it turned into murdering women as part of his sexual fantasies.

The good news is God is also at work and we as human have free will to embrace God or sin. If we embrace God demons tend to loose their power over their victims as our spiritual armor grows.

Below is an interview with mass murder Ted Bundy one day before his execution. At around 3:50 he starts talking about how it started with porn and said his porn issues "crystallized" into something like an entity. Keep in mind, he grew up in a Christian home and attended church with his parents.

[video=youtube;MHq26RxB7WU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHq26RxB7WU[/video]

 

[Ariel82]

Anyone who has the HOLY SPIRIT within them can not be possessed by demons.

"
[h=2]for we wrestle not against flesh and blood " this is to remind us that it is not the people we meet on the street who we are fighting but the demonic forces who influence those people. Jesus didn't fight the demon possess people but freed them.[/h]

But what does Paul mean by "wrestle" and as for the demons.....do they work through human agencies or are they the ones who put thoughts in our heads or is Paul referring to the fortresses which set themselves up against the knowledge of God?

I believe Paul meant by "wrestle" what we oppose, what we fight against is not the people but the thoughts (spiritual strongholds), the sins, the whispers and temptations from demonic spirits who whisper thoughts into the heads of those who do not use discernment and self control to overcome those evil temptations.

human agencies are not an intelligent entity in themselves. Demons work through humans who have been deceived and enslaved to their lies. Spiritual strongholds or fortress are not demons, they are the work of demons and even after people have demons cast out they still have those lies and the hurts and baggage that has not been torn down and cast out.

that does NOT give what some falsely teach as "legal rights" for the demon to continue to torment that person.

It is when they are weak in faith and in need of comfort and God's truth and grace and reassurance from His Holy Spirit that they are His children.

An example of a spiritual stronghold is someone who has low self esteem and think they are trash and worthless because that is how they have been treated all their lives. who may have been molested as a child or mentally abused by being told that they are stupid and worthless over and over again so that in their minds they think they are not worth loving and can not understand how Jesus would love them.

God can tear down that stronghold and show them how they are a beloved child of God and heal that hurt and allow them to love others instead of hiding in a shell of self loathing and doubt.

you will find many false teachings about "deliverance" and how Christians can be possessed by demons but its a lie. Judas was never a born again believer. He did not get the HOLY SPIRIT to lead or guide him.

 

[Tintin]

We're at war against our flesh (own inherent sin), the world, and Satan and his minions. All 3 but it seems Satan gets all of the credit. He's powerful but not THAT powerful.

 

[Grandpa]

ln practical terms I understand Ephesians 6:12 to be referring to the fact that we wrestle against demonic spirits.But what does Paul mean by "wrestle" and as for the demons.....do they work through human agencies or are they the ones who put thoughts in our heads or is Paul referring to the fortresses which set themselves up against the knowledge of God?

Its all those things you listed. Obviously some people are still a slave to the spirit of wickedness and so these powers and principalities sort of control people by their suggestions. We are a big problem because we (used to) respond to these suggestions.

 

[crossnote]

ln practical terms I understand Ephesians 6:12 to be referring to the fact that we wrestle against demonic spirits.But what does Paul mean by "wrestle" and as for the demons.....do they work through human agencies or are they the ones who put thoughts in our heads or is Paul referring to the fortresses which set themselves up against the knowledge of God?

These is an element of warfare in prayer but essentially the 'wrestling' is a war concerning TRUTH...

2Co 10:4-5
(4) (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
(5) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;