The Atheist Question.

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Messenger_T

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2011
179
3
18
#21
Are we all not atheists before we are believers? What was it that caused you to believe? And what is it that allows you to STILL believe?
 
L

livingepistle

Guest
#22
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" Epicurus wrote these questions in Greece some 2300 years ago.

Atheists use this quote to say a good answer hasn't been found so there is no God. I am currently in a discussion with someone in this camp and I am curious to your thoughts on the topic?

What is your answer to the question?

I know God exists and I would prefer non testimonial arguments, but rather common sense points to help out this person. Trying to keep the conversation above board and square without degrading to "does so" , "does not" dialogue.

The Machine
Epicurus did not write this trilemma based argument (God is omnipotent, God is good, but Evil exists)—Glei substantiates this fact and attributes its origin to an earlier existing version that appears in the writings of the skeptic “Sextus Empiricus” and is anti-epicurean.

Equally important, is the fact that Epicurus was not an atheist but a polytheist. Epicurus never denies the existence of gods and supports the belief in the gods in his quotes:

The gods do not punish the bad and reward the good as the common man believes... …send great evils to the wicked and great blessings to the righteous who model themselves after the gods…

It is not the man who denies the gods worshipped by the multitude, who is impious, but he who affirms of the gods what the multitude believes about them.” Epicurus.

“If God listened to the prayers of men, all men would quickly have perished: for they are forever praying for evil against one another.” Epicurus

Epicurus neither denies the existence of gods nor a God.


Although the historical facts are skewed and it is a skeptic that wrote the trilemma, skeptics are not atheists. Another important fact is atheists neither believe in the existence of any deity nor would engage in a conversation such as the one you propose in this thread.

If what you present in your post is an accurate profile of the friend that you are attempting to help then your friend does not know what she/he believes.
 
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chasten

Guest
#23
The church, is the body of believers in Christ...of His sacrifice for our sin at the cross. He is the vine, we are the branches...so I am a little confused, I am sure I am not understanding what you are saying. Maybe I am being vague...but I understand that although God loves all people on this planet, they are not His children nor heirs to His kingdom unless they accept Christ, repent and are 'born again'. So, that tells me that although we are distressed by the death of any of our fellow humans and every person who dies without Christ, is a catastrophe words cannot express, they are not in the body of Christ. Error? :) <><



Yeah. I dont know who your debate was with, but you are absolutely right. People nowadys like to think that the bible says god loves everyone, and we're all going to heaven, but people just say that to help them cope with reality, if they can obtain their own righteousness, then they dont need god's , and oila the world loves them. The bible teaches the God loves them who love him, Those who love him will diligently seek him, and keep his commandments,and not everyone who cries to him , and cst out devis in his name or whatever will enter in. And that only those with the righteousnes to exceed the sscribes an pharisees. And yeah. Duude. Humans are as to children in our minds. THe average length of a humn life is ony 100 years. People that get wrapped up in , well why do people die? They crack me up. People are gonna die whether theres a god or not, if they were that concerned about the after life theyd pray. xD It's the circle of life. Like, people ask, why bad things happen to them. Bad things happen to EVERYBODY. It not our circumstances that define us, but our reaction to them when they arrive, therefore the world doesnt define us, we make the choice to let it define us, or to stand up, and define ourselves.